Make College Free Without Spending A Dime

[Cecilie1200]

That would give all students who want to get a college degree a free option to do so.

Someone needs to explain why idiots like Luddly, who aren't educated enough to comprehend the word "free", are commenting on the best way to educate people. It's like a bird commenting on the best snorkeling gear.

 

[Disir]

I think everyone understands what that word actually means.

My question for you is, if the free that the rest of us are paying for is actually less than what we are spending now, what precisely is the problem?

This is the part where you tell me that government is going to do this cheaper than the Private Sector...right, Disir? Because as we all know EVERYTHING the government does...it does efficiently and at a lower cost than the anyone else...right?

It usually does. So, outside of ideology, do you have anything else?

You honestly believe that the government usually does things more efficiently and at a lower cost than the Private Sector? Really?

No overhead. That's right out of the gate.

Shall I go on?

I can't think of an organization ever created by mankind more prone to "overhead" than government, Disir!

If you want it to take twice as long and cost three times as much...let the government do it! That's an old saw but it exists because it's so spot on.

Show me. The red tape that people moan about is accountability and is heavily scrutinized. It is far more accessible to the public. The services via government are not for profit. So, they aren't there to appease the shareholders and this means that services aren't cut for profit. Now, they get cut when some cowboy doesn't like that a for profit can't compete and they will defund it until it doesn't work and then point fingers and say, "See, I told you so." That has been the name of the game for the past decade.

But, when the for profit starts operating at a loss then they close up shop leaving a mess behind that the public has to contend with. That free market isn't free.

Many students are not going to do well with online course only. That only addresses one type of learner. Shucks, one need only look at the online education failure for high school education.

The thing that drives me insane is that no one wants to stop the for profit higher ed "vocational schools" that are taking people for a ride. They don't want to stop outsourcing. They don't want to return to state funding higher education so the tuition is reasonable. They don't want to stop the influx of immigration that lowers wages. The don't want, they don't want, they don't want.

 

[Oldstyle]

This is the part where you tell me that government is going to do this cheaper than the Private Sector...right, Disir? Because as we all know EVERYTHING the government does...it does efficiently and at a lower cost than the anyone else...right?

It usually does. So, outside of ideology, do you have anything else?

You honestly believe that the government usually does things more efficiently and at a lower cost than the Private Sector? Really?

No overhead. That's right out of the gate.

Shall I go on?

I can't think of an organization ever created by mankind more prone to "overhead" than government, Disir!

If you want it to take twice as long and cost three times as much...let the government do it! That's an old saw but it exists because it's so spot on.

Show me. The red tape that people moan about is accountability and is heavily scrutinized. It is far more accessible to the public. The services via government are not for profit. So, they aren't there to appease the shareholders and this means that services aren't cut for profit. Now, they get cut when some cowboy doesn't like that a for profit can't compete and they will defund it until it doesn't work and then point fingers and say, "See, I told you so." That has been the name of the game for the past decade.

But, when the for profit starts operating at a loss then they close up shop leaving a mess behind that the public has to contend with. That free market isn't free.

Many students are not going to do well with online course only. That only addresses one type of learner. Shucks, one need only look at the online education failure for high school education.

Yes, the Private Sector is "there" to appease either the shareholders or the business owners by creating profit. It's that pursuit of profit that keeps overhead low. Now contrast that with the Public Sector. They are only "there" to appease themselves. Making a profit isn't part of the equation. Government employees don't lose their jobs if a profit isn't made because their jobs can be maintained by increasing the national debt. Overhead can increase every year because there is no concern over profits. I challenge you to show me a governmental agency that's gotten smaller over time!

As for your claim that when profits start operating at a loss they close up? Well, yeah...but that usually occurs when either another Private Sector company out performs them...or increasingly when the Public Sector encroaches on their market.

As for different types of learners? Granted some students don't do well in some learning situations. For them a more traditional format might be the only option. For those that CAN function well with an internet form of teaching...they would be receiving the best teaching available at a far lower cost because that one professor's recorded lecture playing over the web could be seen by literally millions of students rather than a few hundred. THAT is a viable way to reduce the cost of education...making it a function of government won't reduce the cost...it will simply change who gets stuck paying for that cost.

 

[Oldstyle]

It's simple common sense...if I wanted to teach a hundred thousand people how to make "widgets" I could teach a classroom of say forty people at a time the proper way to make that product...in which case it would take me decades to teach the number I need...or I could teach that same lesson over the internet to ALL those hundred thousand people at the same time.

 

[Oldstyle]

That would give all students who want to get a college degree a free option to do so.

Someone needs to explain why idiots like Luddly, who aren't educated enough to comprehend the word "free", are commenting on the best way to educate people. It's like a bird commenting on the best snorkeling gear.

You have to understand that to people like Luddly...something is "free" if someone ELSE pays for it!

 

[jasonnfree]

It always boils down to free stuff to those on the right. They're worried sick about paying for free stuff. Investment in education after WW2 helped build the middle class. There were crank reactionaries of course against this, but thankfully they were in the minority. Now they're in the majority thanks to right wing media indoctrination and no left wing media to offset it.

 

[hortysir]

Free is very expensive

If you want to sponsor a kid to go to college you are free to do so
I am free to say no

 

[jasonnfree]

Free is very expensive

If you want to sponsor a kid to go to college you are free to do so
I am free to say no

That was the attitude that didn't build the middle class. Thanks Ayn Rand, for helping make America become a land of spoiled brats who only believed in the glory of the individual saying "it's all about meeeee".

 

[hortysir]

Free is very expensive

If you want to sponsor a kid to go to college you are free to do so
I am free to say no

That was the attitude that didn't build the middle class. Thanks Ayn Rand, for helping make America become a land of spoiled brats who only believed in the glory of the individual saying "it's all about meeeee".

So let's boldly go into the world of 65% income tax and pay for everything for you

 

[Disir]

It usually does. So, outside of ideology, do you have anything else?

You honestly believe that the government usually does things more efficiently and at a lower cost than the Private Sector? Really?

No overhead. That's right out of the gate.

Shall I go on?

I can't think of an organization ever created by mankind more prone to "overhead" than government, Disir!

If you want it to take twice as long and cost three times as much...let the government do it! That's an old saw but it exists because it's so spot on.

Show me. The red tape that people moan about is accountability and is heavily scrutinized. It is far more accessible to the public. The services via government are not for profit. So, they aren't there to appease the shareholders and this means that services aren't cut for profit. Now, they get cut when some cowboy doesn't like that a for profit can't compete and they will defund it until it doesn't work and then point fingers and say, "See, I told you so." That has been the name of the game for the past decade.

But, when the for profit starts operating at a loss then they close up shop leaving a mess behind that the public has to contend with. That free market isn't free.

Many students are not going to do well with online course only. That only addresses one type of learner. Shucks, one need only look at the online education failure for high school education.

Yes, the Private Sector is "there" to appease either the shareholders or the business owners by creating profit. It's that pursuit of profit that keeps overhead low. Now contrast that with the Public Sector. They are only "there" to appease themselves. Making a profit isn't part of the equation. Government employees don't lose their jobs if a profit isn't made because their jobs can be maintained by increasing the national debt. Overhead can increase every year because there is no concern over profits. I challenge you to show me a governmental agency that's gotten smaller over time!

As for your claim that when profits start operating at a loss they close up? Well, yeah...but that usually occurs when either another Private Sector company out performs them...or increasingly when the Public Sector encroaches on their market.

As for different types of learners? Granted some students don't do well in some learning situations. For them a more traditional format might be the only option. For those that CAN function well with an internet form of teaching...they would be receiving the best teaching available at a far lower cost because that one professor's recorded lecture playing over the web could be seen by literally millions of students rather than a few hundred. THAT is a viable way to reduce the cost of education...making it a function of government won't reduce the cost...it will simply change who gets stuck paying for that cost.

It's not necessary to advertise the public sector. The public sector is there to provide a service. Hence, the public. Time and again we see the private sector fail to provide the same service because profit comes before people. They have failed at everything they have undertaken simply because they cannot provide the same service and make a profit. This is true in mental health care, physical health care, nursing homes, social services and education. The goals are different. This is why they shut down. It has nothing to do with the government encroaching on a market. The government service was stopped because the cry was that it could be done more efficiently and with less cost to begin with. Furthermore, many of these hacks are dependent on government money (tax dollars). So, when they figure out that they can't make a huge fortune doing the hard work then they bail. That is what happens. Every time.

We are no longer in the widget making business. The widget jobs were outsourced. Research is not done behind a lap top. Fieldwork is not done behind a laptop.

 

[Oldstyle]

It always boils down to free stuff to those on the right. They're worried sick about paying for free stuff. Investment in education after WW2 helped build the middle class. There were crank reactionaries of course against this, but thankfully they were in the minority. Now they're in the majority thanks to right wing media indoctrination and no left wing media to offset it.

No left wing media? LOL...seriously? Did you SERIOUSLY just make that statement?

 

[Oldstyle]

Free is very expensive

If you want to sponsor a kid to go to college you are free to do so
I am free to say no

That was the attitude that didn't build the middle class. Thanks Ayn Rand, for helping make America become a land of spoiled brats who only believed in the glory of the individual saying "it's all about meeeee".

You have to excuse Ayn Rand, Jason...she came from a part of the world where the rights of the individual had been declared null and void for the good of the masses! It led to an aversion to "Statism". I can't say as blame her for feeling that way.

 

[Oldstyle]

You honestly believe that the government usually does things more efficiently and at a lower cost than the Private Sector? Really?

No overhead. That's right out of the gate.

Shall I go on?

I can't think of an organization ever created by mankind more prone to "overhead" than government, Disir!

If you want it to take twice as long and cost three times as much...let the government do it! That's an old saw but it exists because it's so spot on.

Show me. The red tape that people moan about is accountability and is heavily scrutinized. It is far more accessible to the public. The services via government are not for profit. So, they aren't there to appease the shareholders and this means that services aren't cut for profit. Now, they get cut when some cowboy doesn't like that a for profit can't compete and they will defund it until it doesn't work and then point fingers and say, "See, I told you so." That has been the name of the game for the past decade.

But, when the for profit starts operating at a loss then they close up shop leaving a mess behind that the public has to contend with. That free market isn't free.

Many students are not going to do well with online course only. That only addresses one type of learner. Shucks, one need only look at the online education failure for high school education.

Yes, the Private Sector is "there" to appease either the shareholders or the business owners by creating profit. It's that pursuit of profit that keeps overhead low. Now contrast that with the Public Sector. They are only "there" to appease themselves. Making a profit isn't part of the equation. Government employees don't lose their jobs if a profit isn't made because their jobs can be maintained by increasing the national debt. Overhead can increase every year because there is no concern over profits. I challenge you to show me a governmental agency that's gotten smaller over time!

As for your claim that when profits start operating at a loss they close up? Well, yeah...but that usually occurs when either another Private Sector company out performs them...or increasingly when the Public Sector encroaches on their market.

As for different types of learners? Granted some students don't do well in some learning situations. For them a more traditional format might be the only option. For those that CAN function well with an internet form of teaching...they would be receiving the best teaching available at a far lower cost because that one professor's recorded lecture playing over the web could be seen by literally millions of students rather than a few hundred. THAT is a viable way to reduce the cost of education...making it a function of government won't reduce the cost...it will simply change who gets stuck paying for that cost.

It's not necessary to advertise the public sector. The public sector is there to provide a service. Hence, the public. Time and again we see the private sector fail to provide the same service because profit comes before people. They have failed at everything they have undertaken simply because they cannot provide the same service and make a profit. This is true in mental health care, physical health care, nursing homes, social services and education. The goals are different. This is why they shut down. It has nothing to do with the government encroaching on a market. The government service was stopped because the cry was that it could be done more efficiently and with less cost to begin with. Furthermore, many of these hacks are dependent on government money (tax dollars). So, when they figure out that they can't make a huge fortune doing the hard work then they bail. That is what happens. Every time.

We are no longer in the widget making business. The widget jobs were outsourced. Research is not done behind a lap top. Fieldwork is not done behind a laptop.

Did the first few lines of that make any sense at all to you when you were typing them out? Was someone distracting you while you were writing it?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The Progressive dictionary defines "free" as "paid for by taxpayers"

 

[SAYIT]

... Currently, the government’s tax-based aid mostly flows to wealthy families instead of low- and middle-income ones.

Yeah ... could you provide some support for that statement?

 

[SAYIT]

This is the part where you tell me that government is going to do this cheaper than the Private Sector...right, Disir? Because as we all know EVERYTHING the government does...it does efficiently and at a lower cost than the anyone else...right?

It usually does. So, outside of ideology, do you have anything else?

You honestly believe that the government usually does things more efficiently and at a lower cost than the Private Sector? Really?

No overhead. That's right out of the gate.

Shall I go on?

I can't think of an organization ever created by mankind more prone to "overhead" than government, Disir!

If you want it to take twice as long and cost three times as much...let the government do it! That's an old saw but it exists because it's so spot on.

Show me. The red tape that people moan about is accountability and is heavily scrutinized. It is far more accessible to the public. The services via government are not for profit. So, they aren't there to appease the shareholders and this means that services aren't cut for profit. Now, they get cut when some cowboy doesn't like that a for profit can't compete and they will defund it until it doesn't work and then point fingers and say, "See, I told you so." That has been the name of the game for the past decade.

But, when the for profit starts operating at a loss then they close up shop leaving a mess behind that the public has to contend with. That free market isn't free.

Many students are not going to do well with online course only. That only addresses one type of learner. Shucks, one need only look at the online education failure for high school education.

The thing that drives me insane is that no one wants to stop the for profit higher ed "vocational schools" that are taking people for a ride. They don't want to stop outsourcing. They don't want to return to state funding higher education so the tuition is reasonable. They don't want to stop the influx of immigration that lowers wages. The don't want, they don't want, they don't want.

Government's inability to provide even a minimal public education has, in many instances, resulted in the creation and growth of charter schools.

 

[Disir]

It usually does. So, outside of ideology, do you have anything else?

You honestly believe that the government usually does things more efficiently and at a lower cost than the Private Sector? Really?

No overhead. That's right out of the gate.

Shall I go on?

I can't think of an organization ever created by mankind more prone to "overhead" than government, Disir!

If you want it to take twice as long and cost three times as much...let the government do it! That's an old saw but it exists because it's so spot on.

Show me. The red tape that people moan about is accountability and is heavily scrutinized. It is far more accessible to the public. The services via government are not for profit. So, they aren't there to appease the shareholders and this means that services aren't cut for profit. Now, they get cut when some cowboy doesn't like that a for profit can't compete and they will defund it until it doesn't work and then point fingers and say, "See, I told you so." That has been the name of the game for the past decade.

But, when the for profit starts operating at a loss then they close up shop leaving a mess behind that the public has to contend with. That free market isn't free.

Many students are not going to do well with online course only. That only addresses one type of learner. Shucks, one need only look at the online education failure for high school education.

The thing that drives me insane is that no one wants to stop the for profit higher ed "vocational schools" that are taking people for a ride. They don't want to stop outsourcing. They don't want to return to state funding higher education so the tuition is reasonable. They don't want to stop the influx of immigration that lowers wages. The don't want, they don't want, they don't want.

Government's inability to provide even a minimal public education has, in many instances, resulted in the creation and growth of charter schools.

No.

 

[Disir]

No overhead. That's right out of the gate.

Shall I go on?

I can't think of an organization ever created by mankind more prone to "overhead" than government, Disir!

If you want it to take twice as long and cost three times as much...let the government do it! That's an old saw but it exists because it's so spot on.

Show me. The red tape that people moan about is accountability and is heavily scrutinized. It is far more accessible to the public. The services via government are not for profit. So, they aren't there to appease the shareholders and this means that services aren't cut for profit. Now, they get cut when some cowboy doesn't like that a for profit can't compete and they will defund it until it doesn't work and then point fingers and say, "See, I told you so." That has been the name of the game for the past decade.

But, when the for profit starts operating at a loss then they close up shop leaving a mess behind that the public has to contend with. That free market isn't free.

Many students are not going to do well with online course only. That only addresses one type of learner. Shucks, one need only look at the online education failure for high school education.

Yes, the Private Sector is "there" to appease either the shareholders or the business owners by creating profit. It's that pursuit of profit that keeps overhead low. Now contrast that with the Public Sector. They are only "there" to appease themselves. Making a profit isn't part of the equation. Government employees don't lose their jobs if a profit isn't made because their jobs can be maintained by increasing the national debt. Overhead can increase every year because there is no concern over profits. I challenge you to show me a governmental agency that's gotten smaller over time!

As for your claim that when profits start operating at a loss they close up? Well, yeah...but that usually occurs when either another Private Sector company out performs them...or increasingly when the Public Sector encroaches on their market.

As for different types of learners? Granted some students don't do well in some learning situations. For them a more traditional format might be the only option. For those that CAN function well with an internet form of teaching...they would be receiving the best teaching available at a far lower cost because that one professor's recorded lecture playing over the web could be seen by literally millions of students rather than a few hundred. THAT is a viable way to reduce the cost of education...making it a function of government won't reduce the cost...it will simply change who gets stuck paying for that cost.

It's not necessary to advertise the public sector. The public sector is there to provide a service. Hence, the public. Time and again we see the private sector fail to provide the same service because profit comes before people. They have failed at everything they have undertaken simply because they cannot provide the same service and make a profit. This is true in mental health care, physical health care, nursing homes, social services and education. The goals are different. This is why they shut down. It has nothing to do with the government encroaching on a market. The government service was stopped because the cry was that it could be done more efficiently and with less cost to begin with. Furthermore, many of these hacks are dependent on government money (tax dollars). So, when they figure out that they can't make a huge fortune doing the hard work then they bail. That is what happens. Every time.

We are no longer in the widget making business. The widget jobs were outsourced. Research is not done behind a lap top. Fieldwork is not done behind a laptop.

Did the first few lines of that make any sense at all to you when you were typing them out? Was someone distracting you while you were writing it?

Yep. It's one of those things that the public sector does not have to pay that the private industry does.


You cannot provide any documentation to substantiate your claims.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's simple common sense...if I wanted to teach a hundred thousand people how to make "widgets" I could teach a classroom of say forty people at a time the proper way to make that product...in which case it would take me decades to teach the number I need...or I could teach that same lesson over the internet to ALL those hundred thousand people at the same time.

Not to mention that it would be of great benefit to those who learn quickly to be able to move on after they grasp something, instead of having to sit around and wait for the teacher to repeat it six times for the slower people.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

It always boils down to free stuff to those on the right. They're worried sick about paying for free stuff. Investment in education after WW2 helped build the middle class. There were crank reactionaries of course against this, but thankfully they were in the minority. Now they're in the majority thanks to right wing media indoctrination and no left wing media to offset it.

No left wing media? LOL...seriously? Did you SERIOUSLY just make that statement?

Well, he's a Communist, so nothing is left of him.