Make 25% Standard Tip Rate....

[syrenn]

I'd find a business that broke the law.

Speaks to Integrity.

If they're breaking that law, what health codes are they ignoring in the kitchen?

Perhaps so, but I will not be coerced into giving "tips" that are not earned.
Integrity that.

There would not be coerced. You would be flat forced.

 

[hortysir]

I'd find a business that broke the law.

Speaks to Integrity.

If they're breaking that law, what health codes are they ignoring in the kitchen?

Perhaps so, but I will not be coerced into giving "tips" that are not earned.
Integrity that.

Please don't think that I meant you should pay an undeserved tip.

I see what you mean, in that, if fighting the check doesn't work, why should you punish yourself by not dining out.
You'd have to find a place that doesn't do it.
I can only guess that they're wages would be added into the menu prices, nonetheless.

It's a lose-lose situation

 

[westwall]

I remember when 10% was considered a good tip.

I don't mind tipping more. I feel it makes the dining experience more intimate. A forced 25% tip is absurd. I mean, if it's a wage issue, then they should be taking that up with managament and not forcing the customer to automatically make up the difference.

Its not a wage issue... its a greed issue.

Actually I think it's a jealousy issue. I think we are all agreed that if a wait person is good they make a very nice living indeed. Instead, this mandatory 25% is being proposed by those who are NOT good wait staff. They see the good ones doing well and instead of upping their work, they wish to have government mandate equality.

And we all know how good the government is at doing their job

 

[caela]

Oh and I want to say that if this did go through, I would feel really badly for the GOOD servers. A lot of people won't leave more of a tip once forced to pay something this large (even if the server might have earned it) which means that they will likely loose a decent chunk of their income.

I have a group I'm part of that meets once a month at a local restaurant. We vary in size from just like 10 of us to up to 40 (though the higher number is rare, it sort of depends on if classes are in session, how close to finals it is etc) but around 20ish is average. We ALWAYS get the same server because HE actually requests to come in and work with us. He almost never has help and has been serving us long enough that he remembers the core group's names and what we usually order. Because we're a large group and 18% gratuity is automatically added to our bill but almost all of us bring cash and add on to that because M busts his ass! He also puts up with a lot of stupidity when we are being goofy or rowdy and ends up just laughing at us and our antics.

On a normal night, just off us, he probably walks out with 200$ cash plus whatever else people added onto their cards and whatever his other tables give him. He is worth every penny and it's not unusual for any of us to bump that 18% on our bills to 40-50% overall so I may be low-balling what he carries out in cash.

Oh, and it's usually JUST him, no extra help, and even when we're a large group I've never gotten anything even slightly cold.

FORCE a 25% onto my bill and servers like him will lose out as people find other places to eat or simply don't throw that extra into their bills anymore.

 

[caela]

I don't mind tipping more. I feel it makes the dining experience more intimate. A forced 25% tip is absurd. I mean, if it's a wage issue, then they should be taking that up with managament and not forcing the customer to automatically make up the difference.

Its not a wage issue... its a greed issue.

Actually I think it's a jealousy issue. I think we are all agreed that if a wait person is good they make a very nice living indeed. Instead, this mandatory 25% is being proposed by those who are NOT good wait staff. They see the good ones doing well and instead of upping their work, they wish to have government mandate equality.

And we all know how good the government is at doing their job

If they want equal pay, they should hustle more and do equal WORK.

 

[westwall]

Its not a wage issue... its a greed issue.

Actually I think it's a jealousy issue. I think we are all agreed that if a wait person is good they make a very nice living indeed. Instead, this mandatory 25% is being proposed by those who are NOT good wait staff. They see the good ones doing well and instead of upping their work, they wish to have government mandate equality.

And we all know how good the government is at doing their job

If they want equal pay, they should hustle more and do equal WORK.

Ummmm, I believe that was my point.

 

[syrenn]

I don't mind tipping more. I feel it makes the dining experience more intimate. A forced 25% tip is absurd. I mean, if it's a wage issue, then they should be taking that up with managament and not forcing the customer to automatically make up the difference.

Its not a wage issue... its a greed issue.

Actually I think it's a jealousy issue. I think we are all agreed that if a wait person is good they make a very nice living indeed. Instead, this mandatory 25% is being proposed by those who are NOT good wait staff. They see the good ones doing well and instead of upping their work, they wish to have government mandate equality.

And we all know how good the government is at doing their job

I totally agree.... the slugs want to get a hefty tip for doing nothing but be own their slug selves. That whole something for nothing mentality.

 

[alan1]

Speaks to Integrity.

If they're breaking that law, what health codes are they ignoring in the kitchen?

Perhaps so, but I will not be coerced into giving "tips" that are not earned.
Integrity that.

Please don't think that I meant you should pay an undeserved tip.

I see what you mean, in that, if fighting the check doesn't work, why should you punish yourself by not dining out.
You'd have to find a place that doesn't do it.
I can only guess that they're wages would be added into the menu prices, nonetheless.

It's a lose-lose situation

Yes, it is.

 

[syrenn]

Oh and I want to say that if this did go through, I would feel really badly for the GOOD servers. A lot of people won't leave more of a tip once forced to pay something this large (even if the server might have earned it) which means that they will likely loose a decent chunk of their income.

I have a group I'm part of that meets once a month at a local restaurant. We vary in size from just like 10 of us to up to 40 (though the higher number is rare, it sort of depends on if classes are in session, how close to finals it is etc) but around 20ish is average. We ALWAYS get the same server because HE actually requests to come in and work with us. He almost never has help and has been serving us long enough that he remembers the core group's names and what we usually order. Because we're a large group and 18% gratuity is automatically added to our bill but almost all of us bring cash and add on to that because M busts his ass! He also puts up with a lot of stupidity when we are being goofy or rowdy and ends up just laughing at us and our antics.

On a normal night, just off us, he probably walks out with 200$ cash plus whatever else people added onto their cards and whatever his other tables give him. He is worth every penny and it's not unusual for any of us to bump that 18% on our bills to 40-50% overall so I may be low-balling what he carries out in cash.

Oh, and it's usually JUST him, no extra help, and even when we're a large group I've never gotten anything even slightly cold.

FORCE a 25% onto my bill and servers like him will lose out as people find other places to eat or simply don't throw that extra into their bills anymore.

I 100% agree with you.

 

[Immanuel]

It is no longer a tip if you are forced to pay it.

I would no longer eat in SF if I still lived in the area and they made that a law. A tip should be voluntary.

Immie

 

[BDBoop]

I remember when 10% was considered a good tip.

I don't mind tipping more. I feel it makes the dining experience more intimate. A forced 25% tip is absurd. I mean, if it's a wage issue, then they should be taking that up with managament and not forcing the customer to automatically make up the difference.

Its not a wage issue... its a greed issue.

Would that be okay if the servers incorporated?

 

[Paulie]

How about this.... i present it in terms of a restauranteur and restaurant management. What i said is simple...at a very basic level of waitstaff service. That is the ..... job.

I know full well people have bad days, and if that is the problem they are off the floor if they cant reign that crap in. It is not a customers issues or problem what the server may or may not be "going thorough". A customer is there to enjoy themselves...I am paying for them to be served...and a customer should be given a basic level service.

That is what I pay them to do. Any tips they receive is based on how well they preform... not something squeeze out of patrons.

Life is very rough...if you want a great tip.... then do something to deserve a great tip. Don't try and have a mandatory tip planted onto a check...and just do average or sub standard work.

I never advocated mandatory tips, so let's just get that part clear. I'm just saying give people a ******* break every once in a while. You expect perfection out of people who have a pretty tough job. Sometimes they won't meet every single expectation of yours.

Personally, I like a server who spends as little time as possible at my table. One return trip after serving the entree, and that's it. I don't like being bothered while I'm eating and talking to whoever i'm with. Anything else really doesn't matter all the much as long as my order is right. I couldn't give a **** less if you smile at me or not. I'm not sure why that's so important to people. But I'm a friendly person by nature, I usually do what I can to make THEM smile, because I know that it's gotta suck dog balls to spend 8 hours or more doing that kind of work.

... trust me, i know its not an easy job... but it is their job.

Having a bad day... may effect the smile sure.... but should in no way impact anything else i listed. As a customer... i do not like being hovered over... but i also know what they should and should not be doing.... if my ice tea or coffee is never refilled.... if dirty plates are left on the table for a long time.... if the table is cleared of dishes and not cleaned up. If i see them getting slammed... i cut them all slack. If i see them chit chatting with the other servers and not taking care of business.... oh hell no. I am as quick to reward and compliment as i am to withhold and complain.

If it sucks dog balls to do the job they applied for... then they need to get a different line of work.

LOL...i think of it as my job to to make them laugh and feel at ease too... i also know what they have to put up with and deal with.


And for $60 bucks an hour....i would expect better then perfection out of a server. Both as a customer.... and back of the house.

I need to see your math on this $60/hr. I wouldn't tip a dollar if they were making that much. Where I live, waitstaff makes less than minimum wage. Their entire livelihood is based on tips.

 

[NoNukes]

What gets me is when you order a coffee at a counter and they have a tip jar. This was never appropriate.

 

[PredFan]

Would you pay a mandatory 25% tip in a restaurant?


No.

Another reason I'm glad I don't live in San Fran.

 

[strollingbones]

What gets me is when you order a coffee at a counter and they have a tip jar. This was never appropriate.

tip jars are everywhere.......why should i tip the funnel cake people at the fair.....hell i am overpaying as is...but then they got a tip jar

 

[Samson]

What gets me is when you order a coffee at a counter and they have a tip jar. This was never appropriate.

tip jars are everywhere.......why should i tip the funnel cake people at the fair.....hell i am overpaying as is...but then they got a tip jar

Funnel Cake should be banned.

 

[syrenn]

I never advocated mandatory tips, so let's just get that part clear. I'm just saying give people a ******* break every once in a while. You expect perfection out of people who have a pretty tough job. Sometimes they won't meet every single expectation of yours.

Personally, I like a server who spends as little time as possible at my table. One return trip after serving the entree, and that's it. I don't like being bothered while I'm eating and talking to whoever i'm with. Anything else really doesn't matter all the much as long as my order is right. I couldn't give a **** less if you smile at me or not. I'm not sure why that's so important to people. But I'm a friendly person by nature, I usually do what I can to make THEM smile, because I know that it's gotta suck dog balls to spend 8 hours or more doing that kind of work.

... trust me, i know its not an easy job... but it is their job.

Having a bad day... may effect the smile sure.... but should in no way impact anything else i listed. As a customer... i do not like being hovered over... but i also know what they should and should not be doing.... if my ice tea or coffee is never refilled.... if dirty plates are left on the table for a long time.... if the table is cleared of dishes and not cleaned up. If i see them getting slammed... i cut them all slack. If i see them chit chatting with the other servers and not taking care of business.... oh hell no. I am as quick to reward and compliment as i am to withhold and complain.

If it sucks dog balls to do the job they applied for... then they need to get a different line of work.

LOL...i think of it as my job to to make them laugh and feel at ease too... i also know what they have to put up with and deal with.


And for $60 bucks an hour....i would expect better then perfection out of a server. Both as a customer.... and back of the house.

I need to see your math on this $60/hr. I wouldn't tip a dollar if they were making that much. Where I live, waitstaff makes less than minimum wage. Their entire livelihood is based on tips.

Start with the op... and read down. I explain how a wait person with 4 tables makes that much here in SF.

 

[Paulie]

As my income level has increased in my life, so have my tip percentages. Unless a server is just intentionally being a prick to me, which I've never encountered, I'm tipping them as my thank you for at the very minimum, serving me my food the way I requested it.

People who go out of their way to find small details as reasons to justify stiffing a server are really just cheap sons of bitches at the end of the day. If you live a financially comfortable life and still can't throw someone less fortunate than you a little cash for making your life just a little bit easier for that hour, you suck, I'm sorry.

This isnt about stiffing....


Its about having your decision on how much of a tip to leave taken away. You will be forced to leave a 25% tip.... regardless of the service.

Yeah. It's kind of like forced taxation removing some of my financial ability to make a charitable donation otherwise.

Remember, I don't agree with the mandatory tip either. But I'd still almost always tip at least 20% simply because someone is busting their ass to serve me a meal I didn't want to cook at home myself.

And it can be, and is, about stiffing. You make a pretty nice sized list of expectations from a busy server and you say that you'll reduce your tip if not every single one of them is met. All I'm saying is give the person a break if possible and hook them up with a few measly bucks that they most likely need more than you to begin with.

I don't know pay scales for waitstaff where you live, but where I live servers don't even get paid minimum wage. Their financial livelihood is based on their tips. Yes, that probably means they should be doing everything they possibly can to earn those tips from patrons, but I'm the kind of guy who doesn't need to have my ass pampered when I go out to dine, so I don't arrive with a list of demands from my waiter/waitress. I just want to eat a nice meal prepared the way I like it. I just as soon tip the ******* cook.

 

[syrenn]

As my income level has increased in my life, so have my tip percentages. Unless a server is just intentionally being a prick to me, which I've never encountered, I'm tipping them as my thank you for at the very minimum, serving me my food the way I requested it.

People who go out of their way to find small details as reasons to justify stiffing a server are really just cheap sons of bitches at the end of the day. If you live a financially comfortable life and still can't throw someone less fortunate than you a little cash for making your life just a little bit easier for that hour, you suck, I'm sorry.

This isnt about stiffing....


Its about having your decision on how much of a tip to leave taken away. You will be forced to leave a 25% tip.... regardless of the service.

Yeah. It's kind of like forced taxation removing some of my financial ability to make a charitable donation otherwise.

Remember, I don't agree with the mandatory tip either. But I'd still almost always tip at least 20% simply because someone is busting their ass to serve me a meal I didn't want to cook at home myself.

And it can be, and is, about stiffing. You make a pretty nice sized list of expectations from a busy server and you say that you'll reduce your tip if not every single one of them is met. All I'm saying is give the person a break if possible and hook them up with a few measly bucks that they most likely need more than you to begin with.

I don't know pay scales for waitstaff where you live, but where I live servers don't even get paid minimum wage. Their financial livelihood is based on their tips. Yes, that probably means they should be doing everything they possibly can to earn those tips from patrons, but I'm the kind of guy who doesn't need to have my ass pampered when I go out to dine, so I don't arrive with a list of demands from my waiter/waitress. I just want to eat a nice meal prepared the way I like it. I just as soon tip the ******* cook.

i am a enormous tipper.

Yes i lay out a list of what is expected.... That is the job they are paid to do. I expect people to do their jobs. A tip is something i leave for a job well done. It is in appreciation of the job they are paid to do. I do not want to be pampered either, ive never said anything of the sort.

This is not about stiffing. Granted some assholes DO stiff waitstaff... but on the whole that is not the case.

As i said in the op... these wait staff already have a base salary of about $10 per hour.

As to tipping the cooks...I do. Why don't you? You do know you can ask the manager to come over to your table and hand them a tip for the cook. I am VERY sure they will appreciate it.

You do also realize that wait staff make more money then the cooks don't you? There inst a line cook i know of in this city that can walk out with 8-9 hundred bucks CASH in their pocket each night.

 

[Paulie]

This isnt about stiffing....


Its about having your decision on how much of a tip to leave taken away. You will be forced to leave a 25% tip.... regardless of the service.

Yeah. It's kind of like forced taxation removing some of my financial ability to make a charitable donation otherwise.

Remember, I don't agree with the mandatory tip either. But I'd still almost always tip at least 20% simply because someone is busting their ass to serve me a meal I didn't want to cook at home myself.

And it can be, and is, about stiffing. You make a pretty nice sized list of expectations from a busy server and you say that you'll reduce your tip if not every single one of them is met. All I'm saying is give the person a break if possible and hook them up with a few measly bucks that they most likely need more than you to begin with.

I don't know pay scales for waitstaff where you live, but where I live servers don't even get paid minimum wage. Their financial livelihood is based on their tips. Yes, that probably means they should be doing everything they possibly can to earn those tips from patrons, but I'm the kind of guy who doesn't need to have my ass pampered when I go out to dine, so I don't arrive with a list of demands from my waiter/waitress. I just want to eat a nice meal prepared the way I like it. I just as soon tip the ******* cook.

i am a enormous tipper.

Yes i lay out a list of what is expected.... That is the job they are paid to do. I expect people to do their jobs. A tip is something i leave for a job well done. It is in appreciation of the job they are paid to do. I do not want to be pampered either, ive never said anything of the sort.

This is not about stiffing. Granted some assholes DO stiff waitstaff... but on the whole that is not the case.

As i said in the op... these wait staff already have a base salary of about $10 per hour.

As to tipping the cooks...I do. Why don't you? You do know you can ask the manager to come over to your table and hand them a tip for the cook. I am VERY sure they will appreciate it.

You do also realize that wait staff make more money then the cooks don't you? There inst a line cook i know of in this city that can walk out with 8-9 hundred bucks CASH in their pocket each night.

You live in CA. I don't. Income levels/cost of living is much different between us.

You and I just think differently. Money is just not that big a deal to me. I don't really have caveats to my tips other than not blatantly making my experience miserable by insulting me or something. I like to believe that my tip helped brighten them up a little if they were off their game. I don't assume that imperfect wait service is indicative of their overall job performance, because they probably wouldn't have that job if they didn't do the job well enough, outside of maybe someone who is brand new to that line of work, in which case I would certainly grant leeway.

And like I've said before in this thread, I hardly EVER encounter a wait person who didn't do a great job, with the occasional exception of late night or early morning diner waitresses here and there.