Mahayana Buddhism

[zaangalewa]

I have been involved with Buddhism for 20 years.

Involved? So you are not a Buddhist.

Never once has there been any teaching in any temple I have ever been to that gods are to be worshiped as part of the practice of Buddhism.

You can worship a god of you want but there is no requirement.

From my point of view this thought is not a central thought from Buddhists. And you demonstrate here by the way that you suffer a lot if someone shares not your opinion - what makes it difficult to speak with you. No one likes to hurt you. And how important is it really whether you are right or wrong and/or or xor I am right or wrong in this context here?

 

[Blues Man]

That's an empty phrase from an Euro-American atheist who tries to think in one truth without god. I don't know whether such an absolute thought really has to do with Buddhism or whether this has more to do with a wrongly understood Christian religion and enmity against Christians. Whatever. I am not a Buddhist. I am a Catholic. But I found out in the end Buddhists and Catholics have the same values for to live a good daily life, what's very astonishing because we start from a very different situation. Blessings to all Buddhists.

Where did I ever say I was an atheist?

Please quote the post

 

[Blues Man]

Involved means you took refuge or not? I took refuge over 40 years ago. You mentioned the 8-fold path. Do you recall the first one Right View or Right Thought? To deny the devas or gods is Wrong View, the Right View is from M. 117:

The view that alms and offerings are not useless; that there
is fruit and result, both of good and bad actions; that there are
such things as this life, and the next life; that father and
mother, as also spontaneously born beings (in the heavenly
worlds), are no mere words; that there are in the world monks
and priests, who are spotless and perfect, who can explain
this life and the next life, which they themselves have understood:
this is called the ‘Mundane Right Understanding’,
which yields worldly fruits and brings good results.

Involved means I studied with Buddhists and I practiced with Buddhists but my personal philosophy is a blend of several different schools of thought so no I am not solely a Buddhist

But I will wager I have more knowledge that you regarding Buddhism and whether or not the worship of gods are part of the practice

 

[Blues Man]

Involved? So you are not a Buddhist.



From my point of view this thought is not a central thought from Buddhists. And you demonstrate here by the way that you suffer a lot if someone shares not your opinion - what makes it difficult to speak with you. No one likes to hurt you. And how important is it really whether you are right or wrong and/or or xor I am right or wrong in this context here?

Then you need to show me what god Buddhists are required to worship.

What is their divine scripture?

What are the rules of the god you say they worship?

The teachings of a man are the foundations of the Buddhism.

 

[zaangalewa]

Where did I ever say I was an atheist?

Nowhere.

Please quote the post

How?

 

[Blues Man]

Nowhere.



How?

And yet you just said I was an atheist

I never wrote "worship". Correct on the foundation, yet what Buddha taught on ethics & virtues is not wildly different from the God religions. You did not say you ever took refuge? When you do that you will stop beating the single note of "no God worship". Buddhadharma is far richer than contempt for theism.

Stating that there is no god in Buddhism is a fact and doesn't imply contempt at all

 

[zaangalewa]

Then you need to show me what god Buddhists are required to worship.

I would be more interested why this thought is so important for you so you trend to become a fanatics. I guess you found the egg of the Buddha. Now you need only a new Santa Maria and two other little ships and you will find a new Buddhist continent on your way to India.

What is their divine scripture?

What are the rules of the god you say they worship?

The teachings of a man are the foundations of the Buddhism.

And a bowl in a river. But that's more a kind of fluid story which not seems to exist in your hard and nearly clear way to think. By the way: The man ... Was he a musician? And I remember also a girl who gave the Shakyamuni something to eat when he had been a homeless ascetics on a wrong way - otherwise we would know nothing about him. If I think about now then more and more people around Buddha arrive here in my brain ... how find they all their place there? Thousands of miles and thousands of years far from their place. A mystery.

 

[Blues Man]

I would be more interested why this thought is so important for you so you trend to become a fanatics. I guess you found the egg of the Buddha. Now you need only a new Santa Maria and two other little ships and you will find a new Buddhist continent on your way to India.



And a bowl in a river. But that's more a kind of fluid story which not seems to exist in your hard and nearly clear way to think. By the way: The man ... Was he a musician? And I remember also a girl who gave the Shakyamuni something to eat when he had been a homeless ascetics on a wrong way - otherwise we would know nothing about him. If I think about now then more and more people around Buddha arrive here in my brain ... how find they all their place there? Thousands of miles and thousands of years far from their place. A mystery.

I am correcting the idea that Buddhism is a religion. It isn't.

It is a philosophy. The teachings of a man.

Siddhartha Gautama was a philosopher not a religious leader.

These are facts

Why do you invest so much emotion in being incorrect?

 

[zaangalewa]

And yet you just said I was an atheist

Did I do so? Perhaps I'm only an evil liar. With such people you should not speak because of their bad influence on your clearness.

Stating that there is no god in Buddhism is a fact and doesn't imply contempt at all

Do not be dissapointed - but the world of the Buddhist is also full of gods and heavens and full of devils and hells and other strange creations. And god is as far as I know not any problem for Buddhists. Perhaps the last steps to become a Buddha or Shakyamuni someone has to go only on the own two (or less or more) feet without the help of god - but I'm sure god will also help in such a case.

 

[zaangalewa]

I am correcting the idea that Buddhism is a religion. It isn't.

It is a philosophy. The teachings of a man.

Siddhartha Gautama was a philosopher not a religious leader.

So why was he a leading monk and Epicurus who lived in the same time in Greece was not?

These are facts

Why do you invest so much emotion in being incorrect?

 

[Blues Man]

So why was he a leading monk and Epicurus who lived in the same time in Greece was not?

You call him a monk I don't

 

[Skull]

Perhaps the best and longest sutra on the nature of buddhas & bodhisattvas is the Avatamsaka Sutra. Here is the translator Rulu explaining about this sutra and the school of Mahayana that came forth from it:

Introduction to Rulu's book 5

All Buddhas, in one thought, appear everywhere for the sake of all sentient beings ready to be delivered, and tell them to have no attachment to the Buddha body. All Buddhas, in one thought, go to all sentient beings on various life-paths everywhere in the dharma realm. All Buddhas, in one thought, go to all sentient beings, wherever they are, if they think of Buddhas. All Buddhas, in one thought, know all sentient beings’ understandings and desires, and manifest countless physical appearances to them.

 

[zaangalewa]

You call him a monk I don't

You say always only the same - and you would say so in all religions including atheism and all philosophies of the world: "I am god, so I am right". You are a winner. Hopefully you will not win yourselve to eternal death ... ah sorry - Buddhism, that's another perspective ... Hopefully you will not win yourselve to eternal life.

 

[Blues Man]

You say always only the same - and you would say so in all religions including atheism and all philosophies of the world: "I am god, so I am right". You are a winner. Hopefully you will not win yourselve to eternal death ... ah sorry - Buddhism, that's another perspective ... Hopefully you will not win yourselve to eternal life.

I never once said I am a god.

Only the religious have those types of delusions

And there is no eternal life, there never was.

Religion and god worship is mostly based on the fear of death. Death is just part of life there is no need to fear it

 

[zaangalewa]

I never once said I am a god.

Exactly. So it is not true what I say because god is always true - and you are god.

Only the religious have those types of delusions

Perhaps because we are bad liars but you are a "philosopher" - a friend of the truth. You are such a perfect philosopher that you ignore questions.

And there is no eternal life, there never was.

An interesting form of belief for someone who is not able to be sure to be sure to reach heaven - ah sorry: the nirvana - and believes he lived since very many reincarnations.

Religion and god worship is mostly based on the fear of death.

Not really. Religion is the root for everything what is philosophy, culture and civilisation.

Death is just part of life there is no need to fear it

Your "philosophy" seems not to carry you a long way. If you remember: Epicurus found out that we on our own never will know what is death. In our insight we are not able to see our own death - but when we take a look outside all around then we see others die - what is very terrible when someone dies who we love. Ask Avalokiteshvara. Sure we like to know what happens with the people who we love after their death. Perhaps this is our all basic question and to meet them again our all basic hope.

 

[Blues Man]

Exactly. So it is not true what I say because god is always true - and you are god.



Perhaps because we are bad liars but you are a "philosopher" - a friend of the truth. You are such a perfect philosopher that you ignore questions.



An interesting form of belief for someone who is not able to be sure to be sure to reach heaven - ah sorry: the nirvana - and believes he lived since very many reincarnations.



Not really. Religion is the root for everything what is philosophy, culture and civilisation.



Your "philosophy" seems not to carry you a long way. If you remember: Epicurus found out that we on our own never will know what is death. In our insight we are not able to see our own death - but when we take a look outside all around then we see others die - what is very terrible when someone dies who we love. Ask Avalokiteshvara. Sure we like to know what happens with the people who we love after their death. Perhaps this is our all basic question and to meet them again our all basic hope.

If you think you are sure to reach heaven then you think you are god because only god can make that decision.

As a mortal you should never be sure what your god will decide to do.

There is no heaven, there is no hell.

You have been conditioned to believe that.

And you have it backwards. People created religion therefore religion is dependent on the minds and thoughts of men just as culture and philosophy are.

 

[zaangalewa]

If you think you are sure to reach heaven then you think you are god because only god can make that decision.

I agree with everything what will come or not come after my death because I believe "my daddy" made it in the best of all possible ways - if not much better at all.

As a mortal you should never be sure what your god will decide to do.

God is not only always the same - god is also always new. And I am by the way on my own never sure what I will really decide on my own in a concrete situation. I guess my wife knows this much better than I do.

There is no heaven, there is no hell.

Buddhists for example suggest not to use mind-altering substances. Reason for such a rule is compassion. They do not like to see someone suffering in such a self-made hell.

You have been conditioned to believe that.

?

And you have it backwards.

?

People created religion therefore religion is dependent on the minds and thoughts of men just as culture and philosophy are.

From my point of view that's not a very intelligent sentence for someone who is involved in Buddhism. Buddhists always have a rich culture because of their religion and their mind. And you are far from a philosopher. Perhaps Buddhism is able to help you to become a philosopher. We will see.

 

[flacaltenn]

Mod Message: I just put a "sticky thread" in this forum's listing that I forgot to place when Religion forum became "civil discussion" Zone 1. Please do not bump the older threads in this forum since they definitely dont comply with civil discussion. If the topic interests you -- start it anew according the rules of "civil discussion".

I'll leave this one open until the end of the day today so you can wrap it up.

 

[Skull]

Dharmamitra's complete, new translation of the Avatamsaka Sutra is now available.

Kalavinka Press

 

[Skull]

The 84000 translation project has made online & downloadable versions of many sutras. Now a long shastra from the Tengyur - a commentary on the Perfection of Wisdom Sutras:

https://read.84000.co/translation/toh3808.html

Summary of big commentary on PP Sutras:

"The Long Explanation of the Noble Perfection of Wisdom in One Hundred Thousand, Twenty-Five Thousand, and Eighteen Thousand Lines is a detailed explanation of the Long Perfection of Wisdom sūtras, presenting a structural framework for them that is relatively easy to understand in comparison to most other commentaries based on Maitreya-Asaṅga’s Ornament for the Clear Realizations. After a detailed, word-by-word explanation of the introductory chapter common to all three sūtras, it explains the structure they also all share in terms of the three approaches or “gateways”‍—brief, intermediate, and detailed‍—ending with an explanation of the passage known as the “Maitreya chapter” found only in the Eighteen Thousand Line and Twenty-Five Thousand Line sūtras. It goes by many different titles, and its authorship has never been conclusively determined, some Tibetans believing it to be by Vasubandhu, and others that it is by Daṃṣṭrāsena."