CDZ Mad Men: Inside the Men's Rights Movement—and the Army of Misogynists and Trolls It Spawned

I am not clear whether you are a feminist or a male rights advocate?

I'm not clear whose sock you are.

There is nothing in my posts that indicate that I am a male rights advocate.
It wasn't clear to me either.

And then you posted this:

"Secondly, I am really ticked off at what I call the elitist feminist squad (as a feminist) that carries on in this manner and the rest of us have to deal with their bullshit."

Which makes it sound like you are a male rights advocate.

Do you read the columnists at other news sites and did you read the article posted?

Your specific position as ambiguous to me as well. When everyone is confused, it's not us.

As for me... my view is that we have built up years of anti-male, anti-boy, anti-masculinity culture.

Male suicide is natural given this.

It's pretty clear where all the good men went. We changed from Leave it to Beaver, Father Knows Best, and the Andy Griffith show, to Home Improvement, Roseanne, and Married with Children. From an old depiction of men who were at least respected, and tried to stand for what was right, to men who were not respected by anyone, and served only as mindless apes, and comedy relief.

Part of this is due to women who don't respect men, and partly due to how they simply don't parent their children. Instead of viewing themselves as having the job of raising kids to be adults, they want to "be their kids friends", and then those kids never grow up. That's bad girls, but devastating for boys. That's why we have 50 year old men, who still live at home, or live with a replacement mother.

Lastly, I also put the blame at parents in general who don't encourage boys to get married. Males tend to not mature into men, until they are married.

Women also fail to get this, by wanting a man that's already mature. That's extremely rare. It's by getting married and having responsibility, that matures the man.

Ironically, women tend to break this pattern, by moving in with the boy, without getting married. Thus the boy now has all the benefits, with zero responsibility, and no need to mature.

So it's partly cultural, partly parents, and partly the women themselves that have caused this crisis of lack of good men.


And as I said note, I also blame the "christian" church in America. The church has become very anti-male.
 
I am not clear whether you are a feminist or a male rights advocate?

I'm not clear whose sock you are.

There is nothing in my posts that indicate that I am a male rights advocate.
It wasn't clear to me either.

And then you posted this:

"Secondly, I am really ticked off at what I call the elitist feminist squad (as a feminist) that carries on in this manner and the rest of us have to deal with their bullshit."

Which makes it sound like you are a male rights advocate.

Do you read the columnists at other news sites and did you read the article posted?

Your specific position as ambiguous to me as well. When everyone is confused, it's not us.

As for me... my view is that we have built up years of anti-male, anti-boy, anti-masculinity culture.

Male suicide is natural given this.

It's pretty clear where all the good men went. We changed from Leave it to Beaver, Father Knows Best, and the Andy Griffith show, to Home Improvement, Roseanne, and Married with Children. From an old depiction of men who were at least respected, and tried to stand for what was right, to men who were not respected by anyone, and served only as mindless apes, and comedy relief.

Part of this is due to women who don't respect men, and partly due to how they simply don't parent their children. Instead of viewing themselves as having the job of raising kids to be adults, they want to "be their kids friends", and then those kids never grow up. That's bad girls, but devastating for boys. That's why we have 50 year old men, who still live at home, or live with a replacement mother.

Lastly, I also put the blame at parents in general who don't encourage boys to get married. Males tend to not mature into men, until they are married.

Women also fail to get this, by wanting a man that's already mature. That's extremely rare. It's by getting married and having responsibility, that matures the man.

Ironically, women tend to break this pattern, by moving in with the boy, without getting married. Thus the boy now has all the benefits, with zero responsibility, and no need to mature.

So it's partly cultural, partly parents, and partly the women themselves that have caused this crisis of lack of good men.


And as I said note, I also blame the "christian" church in America. The church has become very anti-male.

Clearly you didn't read the articles either.
 
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So it's partly cultural, partly parents, and partly the women themselves that have caused this crisis of lack of good men.

But never the men themselves?

Sounds like the whole "it's always whitey's fault" thing.

Never blame the people who are the actual problem? I think I will blame them, however.
 
in my opinion media plays a part in the social construction of masculinity.

The Masculine Heart Socially constructed masculinities The role of media

“Most men don’t know that gender matters to us, that it’s as important to us as women understand it to be to them,” Kimmel said. That is, not until they feel their privilege disappearing, as women advance, as the rights of the queer community are more widely recognized and our country is led by a person of color. That’s when the sense of entitlement kicks in, as those who were once never even aware of their privilege realize that some of it has disappeared.

Men and Masculinities - Women and Gender Advocacy Center
Where do these ideas come from? Men and gender socialization
As socially constructed identities, boys and men learn “appropriate” gender roles in accordance to the masculine expectations of their given society. This means that from very early on boys get messages on what it means to be a boy. To illustrate how pervasive the “gendering” process is, we can take a look at how toys are marketed differently for boys and girls. The graphics below are word clouds that display the words used to market toys to girls and boys respectively. The bigger the text, the more frequently it appears in toy marketing material.

Men and Masculinities - Women and Gender Advocacy Center
Masculinity, Male Privilege, and Intersectionality
All men are influenced by their upbringing, experience, and social environment which play a big role in determining one’s view of masculinity and manhood. This means that masculinity is going to be different for everyone. Some particularly influential factors in shaping one’s idea of manhood are race, class, ability, sexual orientation, and gender. Social justice advocates view these social identities as the most salient factors in society that determine who has power and privilege and who faces societal oppression. Men who are oppressed in one or more ways within this structure embody “marginalized masculinities”, which are ways of being men that are seen as less than or ridiculed by more privileged men as a means of constructing their own identities as men.
 
So it's partly cultural, partly parents, and partly the women themselves that have caused this crisis of lack of good men.

But never the men themselves?

Sounds like the whole "it's always whitey's fault" thing.

Never blame the people who are the actual problem? I think I will blame them, however.

Well, if you want to boil it down to "Your fault".... that's fine.... and I can even see some logic to that....

How is this helpful? Obviously in many cases "Your fault" would be accurate and true.

Ok... now what?

Ever met an alcoholic? Does "this is your fault" help anything?

It kind of reminds me of those marriage counselors who basically just sit there and tell the husband he sucks, then he refuses to go anymore, and shockingly nothing improves.

We've played the "blame the men" card for the last 30 years plus. Hows that working for us?
 
Well, if you want to boil it down to "Your fault".... that's fine.... and I can even see some logic to that....

How is this helpful? Obviously in many cases "Your fault" would be accurate and true.

Ok... now what?

Ever met an alcoholic? Does "this is your fault" help anything?

Yes, it works great ---- now I don't have to bother with him. If somebody is an alcoholic, it's hopeless: they either fix themselves up, or they die in the gutter, and frankly, no one much cares. His life, his problem.

Same with wimpy men who can't get out of their parents' basements.

This is not really of interest to me, especially when people here decided women or parents should take responsibility for fixing up losers' lives!!!

I'll leave you all to enjoy this thread in whatever way you like to. Not really my thing. I'm a feminist, Second Wave, and certainly not some anti-female male issues groupie.
 
Well, if you want to boil it down to "Your fault".... that's fine.... and I can even see some logic to that....

How is this helpful? Obviously in many cases "Your fault" would be accurate and true.

Ok... now what?

Ever met an alcoholic? Does "this is your fault" help anything?

Yes, it works great ---- now I don't have to bother with him. If somebody is an alcoholic, it's hopeless: they either fix themselves up, or they die in the gutter, and frankly, no one much cares. His life, his problem.

Same with wimpy men who can't get out of their parents' basements.

This is not really of interest to me, especially when people here decided women or parents should take responsibility for fixing up losers' lives!!!

I'll leave you all to enjoy this thread in whatever way you like to. Not really my thing. I'm a feminist, Second Wave, and certainly not some anti-female male issues groupie.

Ah ok. So you don't care at all about the problem, or the issues facing society at all, provided it doesn't bother you.

Makes one wonder why you are on a forum talking about the problems in society.

Do you happen to be one of those special people that gets a kick out of complaining about problems, while offering no solution? Or is there some other motive I can't imagine?
 
"Men's Rights" Activists and Feminist Activists are two sides of the same coin. Emotionally damaged, socially retarded, and often fat and ugly losers that can't carry on a normal relationship/life and blame the opposite sex for it.
 
Ok, read a little bit.
Based on comments by the OP, seems the OP is taking the position that parenting, due to some really twisted "historical" doublespeak, should be left to "schools" (so that they can be taught to be happy communist/capitalists slaves). And that parents should just be happy slaves for the capitalists/communists too. Is that correct?
I admit, I could be wrong, there was a lot of nonsense to sort through.

Not entirely seeing how the article relates.

Oh, my apologies, back to the article.
Basically this Farrell guy is a pervert and an idiot. No two ways about it.
Propped up by dinosaur media morons, he started out some sort of a feminist, then was propped up by the same dino-media as a figurehead of male-rights? Logical fail, clearly a strawman argument.

Goodness, it was quite rude not to at least give the summary, that was an immense amount of drivel to parse through! Quite rude indeed!

How very astute! Do go on....:coffee:

What more is there to say really?
Care to answer any questions? Ya know, actually engage in a clean debate?

This is a clean debate forum...
Not just a "I hate____" forum, I think there are other forums on this site for that sort of bellyaching.
 
Ok, read a little bit.
Based on comments by the OP, seems the OP is taking the position that parenting, due to some really twisted "historical" doublespeak, should be left to "schools" (so that they can be taught to be happy communist/capitalists slaves). And that parents should just be happy slaves for the capitalists/communists too. Is that correct?
I admit, I could be wrong, there was a lot of nonsense to sort through.

Not entirely seeing how the article relates.

Oh, my apologies, back to the article.
Basically this Farrell guy is a pervert and an idiot. No two ways about it.
Propped up by dinosaur media morons, he started out some sort of a feminist, then was propped up by the same dino-media as a figurehead of male-rights? Logical fail, clearly a strawman argument.

Goodness, it was quite rude not to at least give the summary, that was an immense amount of drivel to parse through! Quite rude indeed!

How very astute! Do go on....:coffee:

What more is there to say really?
Care to answer any questions? Ya know, actually engage in a clean debate?

This is a clean debate forum...
Not just a "I hate____" forum, I think there are other forums on this site for that sort of bellyaching.

You don't say. Do go on...
 
OP, care to actually make a point?
Ladies, or I guess so-called "ladies", go first.
:badgrin:

Heck maybe there is actually something to say?
 
OP, care to actually make a point?
Ladies, or I guess so-called "ladies", go first.
:badgrin:

Heck maybe there is actually something to say?

Did you read it? No? How shartastic.
 
OP, care to actually make a point?
Ladies, or I guess so-called "ladies", go first.
:badgrin:

Heck maybe there is actually something to say?

Did you read it? No? How shartastic.

Perhaps you missed my recent posts?
Considering the lack of discussion, I'm starting to wonder if you actually read all that article's drivel in the first place.... did you even read the link you posted?

And considering you are using odd words, maybe misspelled, though still odd... you are clearly declining any sort of clean debate.
If so, the mod of this forum should close this ridiculous thread. There appears that there is no clean debate here, just the OP trolling.
 
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OP, care to actually make a point?
Ladies, or I guess so-called "ladies", go first.
:badgrin:

Heck maybe there is actually something to say?

Did you read it? No? How shartastic.

Perhaps you missed my recent posts?
Considering the lack of discussion, I'm starting to wonder if you actually read all that article's drivel in the first place.... did you even read the link you posted?

And considering you are using odd words, maybe misspelled, though still odd... you are clearly declining any sort of clean debate.
If so, the mod of this forum should close this ridiculous thread. There appears that there is no clean debate here, just the OP trolling.

So, what I hear you saying is that you refused to read the articles, you infused your posts with a bunch of twisted idiotic crap and are now complaining to high heaven. Do go on.

--the boy crisis

--children's need for both parents (equally-shared parenting);

--why the pay gap is not about discrimination against women;

--the need for men's studies;

--a men's birth control pill's importance to both sexes;

--paternity fraud;

--male-only draft registration as a violation of the 14th Amendment;

--men as the disposable sex (in war, the "death professions", and as dads)

--the debate between society being controlled historically by patriarchy vs. by the need to survive;

--boys' and men's suicides--the reasons for the increase;

--the negative media images of men, and their negative impact on our daughters' ability to love men;

--how to listen to the other sex with love rather than argue with blame


Anytime your ready.
 
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OP, care to actually make a point?
Ladies, or I guess so-called "ladies", go first.
:badgrin:

Heck maybe there is actually something to say?

Did you read it? No? How shartastic.

Perhaps you missed my recent posts?
Considering the lack of discussion, I'm starting to wonder if you actually read all that article's drivel in the first place.... did you even read the link you posted?

And considering you are using odd words, maybe misspelled, though still odd... you are clearly declining any sort of clean debate.
If so, the mod of this forum should close this ridiculous thread. There appears that there is no clean debate here, just the OP trolling.

So, what I hear you saying is that you refused to read the articles, you infused your posts with a bunch of twisted idiotic crap and are now complaining to high heaven. Do go on.

--the boy crisis

--children's need for both parents (equally-shared parenting);

--why the pay gap is not about discrimination against women;

--the need for men's studies;

--a men's birth control pill's importance to both sexes;

--paternity fraud;

--male-only draft registration as a violation of the 14th Amendment;

--men as the disposable sex (in war, the "death professions", and as dads)

--the debate between society being controlled historically by patriarchy vs. by the need to survive;

--boys' and men's suicides--the reasons for the increase;

--the negative media images of men, and their negative impact on our daughters' ability to love men;

--how to listen to the other sex with love rather than argue with blame


Anytime your ready.


Well, lets not get too emotional. No need for insults, if you found my my responses offensive, then I apologize. I am simply trying to keep discussion on track.
Now was it so hard to summarize your points?
You see, that way we are able to engage in a calm reasonable debate? Without wasting everyone's time with some strawman Mother Jones article?

I thank you for at least trying to engage in a clean debate.

That said,
What is the argument?
The link you posted was all about some pervert, which I commented on and you appear to have missed. Honest mistake, fair enough, that happens on message boards all the time.
While you think I didn't read the article, you apparently did not either. So lets move forward.

Let's take one of the points you posted, your pick... while they are not explicitely covered in the Farrell article, lets discuss anyway.
So pick a topic, and the position you are arguing.
And no more insults, this is a clean debate.
 
OP, care to actually make a point?
Ladies, or I guess so-called "ladies", go first.
:badgrin:

Heck maybe there is actually something to say?

Did you read it? No? How shartastic.

Perhaps you missed my recent posts?
Considering the lack of discussion, I'm starting to wonder if you actually read all that article's drivel in the first place.... did you even read the link you posted?

And considering you are using odd words, maybe misspelled, though still odd... you are clearly declining any sort of clean debate.
If so, the mod of this forum should close this ridiculous thread. There appears that there is no clean debate here, just the OP trolling.

So, what I hear you saying is that you refused to read the articles, you infused your posts with a bunch of twisted idiotic crap and are now complaining to high heaven. Do go on.

--the boy crisis

--children's need for both parents (equally-shared parenting);

--why the pay gap is not about discrimination against women;

--the need for men's studies;

--a men's birth control pill's importance to both sexes;

--paternity fraud;

--male-only draft registration as a violation of the 14th Amendment;

--men as the disposable sex (in war, the "death professions", and as dads)

--the debate between society being controlled historically by patriarchy vs. by the need to survive;

--boys' and men's suicides--the reasons for the increase;

--the negative media images of men, and their negative impact on our daughters' ability to love men;

--how to listen to the other sex with love rather than argue with blame


Anytime your ready.


Well, lets not get too emotional. No need for insults, if you found my my responses offensive, then I apologize. I am simply trying to keep discussion on track.
Now was it so hard to summarize your points?
You see, that way we are able to engage in a calm reasonable debate? Without wasting everyone's time with some strawman Mother Jones article?

I thank you for at least trying to engage in a clean debate.

That said,
What is the argument?
The link you posted was all about some pervert, which I commented on and you appear to have missed. Honest mistake, fair enough, that happens on message boards all the time.
While you think I didn't read the article, you apparently did not either. So lets move forward.

Let's take one of the points you posted, your pick... while they are not explicitely covered in the Farrell article, lets discuss anyway.
So pick a topic, and the position you are arguing.
And no more insults, this is a clean debate.

That was listed at the beginning. Listed from the advocate in a response to the article. You had ample opportunity to pick any of those.Still do. I suspect that you have a crush on me. There is no other reason for you to continue to troll me.
 
OP, care to actually make a point?
Ladies, or I guess so-called "ladies", go first.
:badgrin:

Heck maybe there is actually something to say?

Did you read it? No? How shartastic.

Perhaps you missed my recent posts?
Considering the lack of discussion, I'm starting to wonder if you actually read all that article's drivel in the first place.... did you even read the link you posted?

And considering you are using odd words, maybe misspelled, though still odd... you are clearly declining any sort of clean debate.
If so, the mod of this forum should close this ridiculous thread. There appears that there is no clean debate here, just the OP trolling.

So, what I hear you saying is that you refused to read the articles, you infused your posts with a bunch of twisted idiotic crap and are now complaining to high heaven. Do go on.

--the boy crisis

--children's need for both parents (equally-shared parenting);

--why the pay gap is not about discrimination against women;

--the need for men's studies;

--a men's birth control pill's importance to both sexes;

--paternity fraud;

--male-only draft registration as a violation of the 14th Amendment;

--men as the disposable sex (in war, the "death professions", and as dads)

--the debate between society being controlled historically by patriarchy vs. by the need to survive;

--boys' and men's suicides--the reasons for the increase;

--the negative media images of men, and their negative impact on our daughters' ability to love men;

--how to listen to the other sex with love rather than argue with blame


Anytime your ready.


Well, lets not get too emotional. No need for insults, if you found my my responses offensive, then I apologize. I am simply trying to keep discussion on track.
Now was it so hard to summarize your points?
You see, that way we are able to engage in a calm reasonable debate? Without wasting everyone's time with some strawman Mother Jones article?

I thank you for at least trying to engage in a clean debate.

That said,
What is the argument?
The link you posted was all about some pervert, which I commented on and you appear to have missed. Honest mistake, fair enough, that happens on message boards all the time.
While you think I didn't read the article, you apparently did not either. So lets move forward.

Let's take one of the points you posted, your pick... while they are not explicitely covered in the Farrell article, lets discuss anyway.
So pick a topic, and the position you are arguing.
And no more insults, this is a clean debate.

That was listed at the beginning. Listed from the advocate in a response to the article. You had ample opportunity to pick any of those.Still do. I suspect that you have a crush on me. There is no other reason for you to continue to troll me.


--the boy crisis
Where in the article?
What is the "boy crisis"?

--children's need for both parents (equally-shared parenting);
Children need parents, not a village. Simple as that really.

--why the pay gap is not about discrimination against women;
Because women are better homemakers, men are better breadwinners. Simple as that really.

--the need for men's studies;
Yeah, there is no need for college at all with modern technology.

--a men's birth control pill's importance to both sexes;
Birth control is cancer.

--paternity fraud;
Television is cancer.

--male-only draft registration as a violation of the 14th Amendment;
Conscription is anti-American.

--men as the disposable sex (in war, the "death professions", and as dads)
See above

--the debate between society being controlled historically by patriarchy vs. by the need to survive;
blah blah, the patriarchy prevents rape.

--boys' and men's suicides--the reasons for the increase;
Uhm... could it be feminism?

--the negative media images of men, and their negative impact on our daughters' ability to love men;
See above

--how to listen to the other sex with love rather than argue with blame
See above

Feminism is divide and conquer. Welcome to the world of the savage and the slave, thanks to the feminazi.

I suspect that you have a crush on me. There is no other reason for you to continue to troll me.
Yes there is another reason to respond, not "troll"...
I recognize the tripe posted in the "articles" for the propaganda that they are. Simple as that really. It is clear that you did not read the garbage you posted, therefore deflected all debate while repeating some feminazi "professor" drivel. It's obvious. And this angers you, so you make it personal.

So,
This is not the appropriate forum for such personal comments. The thought of anyone to "have a crush" on someone like you is quite insulting!
Please restrain your ego and emotions if you wish to engage in a clean debate, if this is not possible you are in the wrong forum.
 
Did you read it? No? How shartastic.

Perhaps you missed my recent posts?
Considering the lack of discussion, I'm starting to wonder if you actually read all that article's drivel in the first place.... did you even read the link you posted?

And considering you are using odd words, maybe misspelled, though still odd... you are clearly declining any sort of clean debate.
If so, the mod of this forum should close this ridiculous thread. There appears that there is no clean debate here, just the OP trolling.

So, what I hear you saying is that you refused to read the articles, you infused your posts with a bunch of twisted idiotic crap and are now complaining to high heaven. Do go on.

--the boy crisis

--children's need for both parents (equally-shared parenting);

--why the pay gap is not about discrimination against women;

--the need for men's studies;

--a men's birth control pill's importance to both sexes;

--paternity fraud;

--male-only draft registration as a violation of the 14th Amendment;

--men as the disposable sex (in war, the "death professions", and as dads)

--the debate between society being controlled historically by patriarchy vs. by the need to survive;

--boys' and men's suicides--the reasons for the increase;

--the negative media images of men, and their negative impact on our daughters' ability to love men;

--how to listen to the other sex with love rather than argue with blame


Anytime your ready.


Well, lets not get too emotional. No need for insults, if you found my my responses offensive, then I apologize. I am simply trying to keep discussion on track.
Now was it so hard to summarize your points?
You see, that way we are able to engage in a calm reasonable debate? Without wasting everyone's time with some strawman Mother Jones article?

I thank you for at least trying to engage in a clean debate.

That said,
What is the argument?
The link you posted was all about some pervert, which I commented on and you appear to have missed. Honest mistake, fair enough, that happens on message boards all the time.
While you think I didn't read the article, you apparently did not either. So lets move forward.

Let's take one of the points you posted, your pick... while they are not explicitely covered in the Farrell article, lets discuss anyway.
So pick a topic, and the position you are arguing.
And no more insults, this is a clean debate.

That was listed at the beginning. Listed from the advocate in a response to the article. You had ample opportunity to pick any of those.Still do. I suspect that you have a crush on me. There is no other reason for you to continue to troll me.


--the boy crisis
Where in the article?
What is the "boy crisis"?

--children's need for both parents (equally-shared parenting);
Children need parents, not a village. Simple as that really.

--why the pay gap is not about discrimination against women;
Because women are better homemakers, men are better breadwinners. Simple as that really.

--the need for men's studies;
Yeah, there is no need for college at all with modern technology.

--a men's birth control pill's importance to both sexes;
Birth control is cancer.

--paternity fraud;
Television is cancer.

--male-only draft registration as a violation of the 14th Amendment;
Conscription is anti-American.

--men as the disposable sex (in war, the "death professions", and as dads)
See above

--the debate between society being controlled historically by patriarchy vs. by the need to survive;
blah blah, the patriarchy prevents rape.

--boys' and men's suicides--the reasons for the increase;
Uhm... could it be feminism?

--the negative media images of men, and their negative impact on our daughters' ability to love men;
See above

--how to listen to the other sex with love rather than argue with blame
See above

Feminism is divide and conquer. Welcome to the world of the savage and the slave, thanks to the feminazi.

I suspect that you have a crush on me. There is no other reason for you to continue to troll me.
Yes there is another reason to respond, not "troll"...
I recognize the tripe posted in the "articles" for the propaganda that they are. Simple as that really. It is clear that you did not read the garbage you posted, therefore deflected all debate while repeating some feminazi "professor" drivel. It's obvious. And this angers you, so you make it personal.

So,
This is not the appropriate forum for such personal comments. The thought of anyone to "have a crush" on someone like you is quite insulting!
Please restrain your ego and emotions if you wish to engage in a clean debate, if this is not possible you are in the wrong forum.

No, puppet. Try again.
 

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