Mad Max

[HUGGY]

Senator Max Baucus wants those that believe in single payer health care arrested if they try to attend and weigh in on forum. This piece of human waste does not represent the people. He represents the pharmacutical corps and the insurance co's.

http://www.greenchange.org/article.php?id=4346

 

[KittenKoder]

This is why parties suck, both of them, heaven forbid someone actually goe against the flow for a change.

 

[Tech_Esq]

So Obama wants to "fix" the 53 Trillion dollar unfunded mandate to provide Medicare and Medicaid and SCHIP by "Nationalizing," or whatever, health care. The thought being that he will then reduce costs on health care and create a system that we can actual pay for before it gets too late.

Here we have Bachus, if we are to believe the OP, bought and paid for by the Pharm and ins cos. This looks like a huge ass collision is about to happen on the Dem side. Am I wrong?

 

[HUGGY]

So Obama wants to "fix" the 53 Trillion dollar unfunded mandate to provide Medicare and Medicaid and SCHIP by "Nationalizing," or whatever, health care. The thought being that he will then reduce costs on health care and create a system that we can actual pay for before it gets too late.

Here we have Bachus, if we are to believe the OP, bought and paid for by the Pharm and ins cos. This looks like a huge ass collision is about to happen on the Dem side. Am I wrong?

You are not wrong. It needs to happen this train wreck that will separate those that represent the peoples will and those that shill for the corporations. I for one am disgusted at those that profit from pain, suffering and death. But thats just me. Lets have it out and see who wins.

 

[Tech_Esq]

So Obama wants to "fix" the 53 Trillion dollar unfunded mandate to provide Medicare and Medicaid and SCHIP by "Nationalizing," or whatever, health care. The thought being that he will then reduce costs on health care and create a system that we can actual pay for before it gets too late.

Here we have Bachus, if we are to believe the OP, bought and paid for by the Pharm and ins cos. This looks like a huge ass collision is about to happen on the Dem side. Am I wrong?

You are not wrong. It needs to happen this train wreck that will separate those that represent the peoples will and those that shill for the corporations. I for one am disgusted at those that profit from pain, suffering and death. But thats just me. Lets have it out and see who wins.

Do you know that was your 666th post? Just sayin'

I haven't heard anything I've really liked yet. (Presupposing we are really going to go down this path in the first place).

I was talking to a guy in Paris (and saw a report) about the way the French system works. I think they are doing things better than the Brits or the Canadians.

I think the government has a role in removing some of the artifices that government put in place and that artificially keep insurance prices high. (Insurance plans are state by state not national). I think the Feds could create a pool of insurance (several providers as many as wanted to participate) Create some rules like you can't deny anyone if you want to be a member of the pool. No cherry picking.

Require everyone have a Health Care Savings account. Funded by either the individual or government depending on means. Tax credits for same. Tax deferred and never go away. Require a high deductible -- to encourage market like behavior (shopping) to control costs.

In that way, government acts more like a facilitator, than a single payer. Without market type behavior, the only way to control costs is rationing like Britain and Canada. I don't think rationing would stand a snowball's chance in hell here. We're too spoiled.

 

[KittenKoder]

If they deregulated it and let supply and demand take over health care the prices would more likely fall. Yes, there is logic to how an why. Much of what we have access to is "endorsed", the FDA gets to cherry pick what they allow, and usually they only go with what pays them the most, not what is most cost effective, safe, or beneficial. Thus by the time we are paying the cost, after all the palm greasing and endorsement costs, we are paying more than 3 times the actual price, often up to 10 times the cost, to cover it so the medical supply company can make a profit. Then they can increase even that price higher so they can inflate the profit. Then to make people think they need more medical treatment they make up all sorts of scares and illnesses which either are not as bad as they claim or not even real just to drive up the demand, and these claims are backed by another greased palm, the AMA. If we get rid of these "middle men" then there would be no palms to grease and health products would need to stand on their own two feet to make it, thus the price would also have to fall.

 

[alan1]

The government has absolutely no business getting involved in health care whatsoever.
Just like they have absolutely no business getting involved in what I eat or how I shop for groceries.

 

[Yurt]

your link says nothing about arresting anyone

further, who cares, this a round table, it isn't going to change anything. its just another example of democrats shutting out opposing view points...

 

[Seraega]

The government has absolutely no business getting involved in health care whatsoever.
Just like they have absolutely no business getting involved in what I eat or how I shop for groceries.

The government has business getting into whatever the people ask them too, and after decades of the market failing to insure every American, we've spoken in electing Pres. Obama.

 

[HUGGY]

your link says nothing about arresting anyone

further, who cares, this a round table, it isn't going to change anything. its just another example of democrats shutting out opposing view points...

True, my link is just a basic support link. I heard about the threats of arrests on the radio.

There are many sources on the search engines. I was just starting a debate on what I consider an important topic.

An attempt by baucus to take single payer off the table because in his mind americans are not ready for it is pure bullshit. Every poll I've heard of since the run up to novembers election showed a majority of americans in favor of single payer.

As a side note and an answer to those that repeat the montra from the insurance co's...
If the single payer systems in the rest of the developed world are so bad how come you NEVER hear of any public protests of health care from those countries?

Jesus H Christ people in England protest about EVERYTHING but you never hear em whining about thier health care.

Could we be being lied to by the corporations making fortunes off of the pain, suffering and deaths of americans?

 

[alan1]

The government has absolutely no business getting involved in health care whatsoever.
Just like they have absolutely no business getting involved in what I eat or how I shop for groceries.

The government has business getting into whatever the people ask them too, and after decades of the market failing to insure every American, we've spoken in electing Pres. Obama.

Because everybody that voted for Mr Obama was a single issue voter, and that issue was health care, right?

 

[Seraega]

The government has absolutely no business getting involved in health care whatsoever.
Just like they have absolutely no business getting involved in what I eat or how I shop for groceries.

The government has business getting into whatever the people ask them too, and after decades of the market failing to insure every American, we've spoken in electing Pres. Obama.

Because everybody that voted for Mr Obama was a single issue voter, and that issue was health care, right?

Call me cuckoo when you're the one that can't come to grasp the fact that people voted for change. We're not going away either, check out James Carville's new book.

 

[alan1]

The government has business getting into whatever the people ask them too, and after decades of the market failing to insure every American, we've spoken in electing Pres. Obama.

Because everybody that voted for Mr Obama was a single issue voter, and that issue was health care, right?

Call me cuckoo when you're the one that can't come to grasp the fact that people voted for change. We're not going away either, check out James Carville's new book.

I hope you're happy when they start grocery shopping for you just like your mommy used to do.

 

[Chris]

Single payer healthcare is more efficient and cheaper and more fair. It could save American business.

But it won't happen because there are too many idiots in this country.

 

[HUGGY]

Single payer healthcare is more efficient and cheaper and more fair. It could save American business.

But it won't happen because there are too many idiots in this country.

The idiots are the people that learned how a grass roots campaign operates to get Obama elected and forgot how make phone calls and send e-mails to influence government now when single payer health care is on the line.

 

[manu1959]

Single payer healthcare is more efficient and cheaper and more fair. It could save American business.

But it won't happen because there are too many idiots in this country.

explain how it will cost my company less......

 

[HUGGY]

Single payer healthcare is more efficient and cheaper and more fair. It could save American business.

But it won't happen because there are too many idiots in this country.

explain how it will cost my company less......

How much does your company spend for health care now?

I would guess that there will be some cost in taxes but that is not cripling as it is assesed AFTER you make gross profit meaning you have already made your nut.

Most major industry have made it clear that single payer would relieve them to use resources better.

 

[KittenKoder]

Single payer healthcare is more efficient and cheaper and more fair. It could save American business.

But it won't happen because there are too many idiots in this country.

explain how it will cost my company less......

How much does your company spend for health care now?

I would guess that there will be some cost in taxes but that is not cripling as it is assesed AFTER you make gross profit meaning you have already made your nut.

Most major industry have made it clear that single payer would relieve them to use resources better.

Actually, in that light then it just simply cannot be done. At least not without raising everyone's taxes to outrageous amounts.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Single payer healthcare is more efficient and cheaper and more fair. It could save American business.

But it won't happen because there are too many idiots in this country.

explain how it will cost my company less......

How much does your company spend for health care now?

I would guess that there will be some cost in taxes but that is not cripling as it is assesed AFTER you make gross profit meaning you have already made your nut.

Most major industry have made it clear that single payer would relieve them to use resources better.

Absolutely. Corporations would LOVE a single payer system. Especially large industrial corporations. Relived of the burden of health care coverage, they could increase their profits tremendously.

The people would be be screwed, blued and tattooed, but the corporations would make out like bandits.

 

[Tech_Esq]

The government has absolutely no business getting involved in health care whatsoever.
Just like they have absolutely no business getting involved in what I eat or how I shop for groceries.

The government has business getting into whatever the people ask them too, and after decades of the market failing to insure every American, we've spoken in electing Pres. Obama.

Does the Constitution mean more or less to you than toilet paper? From your statement, I'm thinkin' less.