Louis Theroux on Ultra Zionists

[Phoenall]

that is yet another layer of zionist crapola smothering your brain, sally.

you dont even know what zionist means apart from what your imam is telling you.

 

[Phoenall]

This never happened. ?????????
Its off-topic, Sally.

Next you will be saying that there was no massacre in Hebron of the Jews, or that Jordan never evicted the Jewish owners from Jerusalem. How about the illegal chemical/biological weapons used by the Palestinians against the Jews, are they also Zionist crapola. How about the Palestinian video of Palestinian scum tearing two Jews apart and devouring their flesh, are going to say this is of topic as well.

 

[Phoenall]

I'm telling you other Muslim countries are irrelevant.

And yes, my god I HOPE they DO terrible things to settlers. That is called armed resistance.

I hope the Israelis do even worse things to the Palestinians this is called retaliation and reprisals. They could start by stopping all aid from crossing Israeli land until the Palestinians are ready to talk peace and mutual borders..

 

[toastman]

I'm telling you other Muslim countries are irrelevant.

And yes, my god I HOPE they DO terrible things to settlers. That is called armed resistance.

I hope the Israelis do even worse things to the Palestinians this is called retaliation and reprisals. They could start by stopping all aid from crossing Israeli land until the Palestinians are ready to talk peace and mutual borders..

Amity is a nasty Muslim Nazi shill.

That's the difference between PaliNazis like Amity and Israelis; they WANT Israelis to have terrible things done to them, but not the other way around.
What a rotten lump of shit this 'amity' is.

 

[proudveteran06]

This never happened. ?????????

Are you actually trying to tell us that every country in the world is perfect, and the ones in which your Muslim brethren inhabit have the best human rights record for all people in the entire world? Are you also trying to tell us that the Arabs don't do terrible things to the settlers that the settlers aren't arranging recently for bodyguards to ride around to chase the Arabs away from committing their dirty deeds? It's like the time of old times when they had to ride on horseback to keep tabs on your brethren and stop them from committing some crime against the people in the kubbutzes..

She talks about things being " off topic?" Let's talk about things " on topic" The Arabs initiated the 67 War. They didn't respect Israeli Sovereignty . They don't consider the Jews as being " equals" If the Arabs had won the 67 War She wouldn't be talking about " occupation" She's burning up that the Jewish State exists. Just laugh at her.

 

[amity1844]

Google 'Murder of Helena Rapp'. You'd be surprised.

It takes a rare kind of cruelty, even for beasts, to rip the heart of an innocent young girl while she's still alive.

But both that, and the Ramallah Lynch, are hardly a surprise.

As the old saying goes, "This is what I do", said the scorpion to the frog

I wouldn't be surprised at ANYTHING the Israelis say, but I will look it up anyway.

Look, I knew a woman who was on the Sabena plane that was hijacked, I think about in 1973? She was basically a truthful person, never knew her to lie about anything else. Well, she said that the Israelis deliberately shot one of the passengers.

Other than that all I can say is that Palestinians roughly as big of a psychological mess as any other group of people, and many have issues on top of that due to their experiences. It takes all kinds. But what those people did does not affect Palestinians' right of return.

 

[amity1844]

Google 'Murder of Helena Rapp'. You'd be surprised.

So I DID and all I found was that she was stabbed on a street corner by someone believed to have mental problems. Other than that, the only coverage is just on hate sites.

It takes a rare kind of cruelty, even for beasts, to rip the heart of an innocent young girl while she's still alive.


As the old saying goes, "This is what I do", said the scorpion to the frog

You see though, a scorpion does it by nature because it is part of its biology as a species. Palestinians are not a different species. They are as human as anyone else, even Jewish people, and subject to all the same crap that goes on in anyone who has been traumatized (as pretty much everyone has). So here again I question the propriety of calling human beings animals. If you say it often enough, you talk yourself into setting up a slaughterhouse.

 

[Lipush]

"Mental problems". Is what what they're calling it now? So Natan Zada and Jacob Titel and Baruch Goldstein all suffered from mental problems as well?


Good to know. Palestinians always have an excuse, right?

Typical.

 

[amity1844]

You shouldn't have held it up at all - not if you wanted to maintain any façade of being 'reasonable'.

It would be breaking all kinds of US law - not to mention international laws (treaties) for the US to attack Israel - but evidently that doesn't matter to you.

Incidentally, the bulk of historians still understand that nuking Nagasaki and Hiroshima saved several hundred thousand Allied casualties - and MILLIONS of Japanese lives. Look up the accounts of the island fighting, and how the Japanese *dependents* committed suicide over their troops losing the battles. Do a little research on 'bushido' and understand a little about the mindset of the Japanese people....

I think you made my point for me. You do realize this remains a feasible option. Support for Israel is on the wane, and how to stop it is what's under discussion now. And that is how the discussion is framed by the U.S. other nations. Support for Israel has cost the U.S. credibility all over the world, and it is credibility that we need back.

Seriously I wouldn't worry too much about an imminent nuclear strike, long range, its uncertain what could happen.

OIC - so this isn't about 'doing the right thing', after all. It's about 'restoring credibility for the US'. 'Credibility' with whom, exactly? And turning on and selling out an ally is going to resonate HOW, exactly, with the likes of the Commonwealth and the EU?

Who will be next - Taiwan, to buy time from the Chinese on the mainland? Or Pakistan, to buy 'good will' from India?

Is that how you truly think the US should run its foreign policy, to see what advantages we can bring to exactly our own selves and every other nation on earth is potentially expendable?

The nuclear analogy wasn't more than 0.1% serious of course, BUT it highlights something. Let me explain my point in more detail.

I think Israel has had American support (political and financial and in every other sense) for a very long time. In large part this has been because of the pro-Israel lobby (Jewish and non-Jewish). Israel feels secure and pretty much appears to take the U.S. for granted, and the only question has been "how much more can we get in this upcoming agreement?"

But I don't think that American support is a safe bet for Israel anymore at all, and here's why.

Firstly, over the few decades since Israel was established there has gradually been a shift in the way foreign policy issues are decided. Basically, it has been realized that foreign policy needs to be de-politicized. That means removed from the realm of electoral politics and put into the hands of career experts who understand what is at stake and what the true issues are, and will not be swayed so much by public emotion. And the lifers at the State Dept and CIA don't really give a flip whether Congressman Whozits gets re-elected or not, they are basing their decisions on fully pragmatic considerations.

So the issues as perceived by policy analysts have changed quite a bit over the span of Israel's existence. Back through the 40s, 50s, and 60s the Issue, the big Issue, was communism. This worked to Israel's advantage because the U.S. wanted a secure outpost to potentially launch operations against communist powers or those aligned with them. Israel was moderate, pretty firmly committed to capitalism, had a thriving modern economy unlike the rest of the middle east, etc. Israel looked like the perfect ally. The Palestinians, as leftists who had virtually NO economy, tended to be on the wrong side of the communism issue, were virtually UNKNOWN as a people thanks to Israeli disinformation and the general fact that the victors write the history. And so supporting Israel made the U.S. look good in Europe and the rest of the world (which was still largely colonialist up until the 1960s anyway). Israel was the liberals' choice.

Now the ideological war is over. Communism and communist countries are no longer perceived as much of a threat. Meanwhile, the big divisive issue, the axis along which everything is split, is now Islamic militancy. Communism/capitalism had little to do with the Israel/Palestine issue, but Islamic militancy has A LOT to do with Palestine/Israel. The U.S. does not necessarily LIKE Islamic militants of course, but as far as dealing with Islamic militancy in a constructive way, the U.S. knows its handling of Palestine/Israel issue is paramount.

In addition, the Palestinians have done so much right and so well, virtually the entire no-longer-colonialist-dominated world is now behind them. All those countries that have gained their independence within the last generation or two or three can perfectly well identify with the Palestinians and the fact that they have been denied self determination for two millenia!

One can see the drama played out in the United Nations and other venues frequently: The U.S. is often/usually the only supporter Israel has got. And everyone else is getting increasingly irritated by it.

The U.S. has spent a lot of money on Israel and it is increasingly looking like we aren't getting anything good for our money. What the U.S. wants for its money AT A MINIMUM is control over the situation that is jeopardizing the U.S.'s standing on the world stage. And instead of being a prudent ally and trying to find some way to achieve more limited goals in order to avoid embarrassing the U.S., Israel just keeps plowing pigheadedly along like a giant bulldozer, as if it doesn't need to answer to anyone. This attitude is so often voiced by you all on this forum. Israel does things that it KNOWS the U.S. doesn't like, such as the West Bank settlements, bulldozing peoples' homes in public, collective punishments, HUGE overkill in Gaza, shooting unarmed civilians in public, while firing at flotillas of relief boats, running over they-don't-know-who with their bulldozers, breaking peoples' arms in public, torturing, holding gigantic segments of the subject population in administrative detention .... Israel has gone over the edge into insanity. And no matter how many times you say you just have an animal control problem, Israel appears BRUTAL beyond what this very brutal world is willing to tolerate. And all NOT in the interests of survival, no, but in the service of some ends that the U.S. finds pretty questionable in and of themselves, such as acquiring additional territory in contravention of international law and suppressing resistance and dissent while crippling the capitalist economies of the West Bank and Gaza.

And so it looks like Israel is turning into another Vietnam in the sense that it is an intractable problem that isn't amenable to a military solution, and that has a HUGE public relations cost for the U.S. around the world that isn't going to go away. Israel applies 100% maximum violence and force nearly all the time in a war it can never win. It is a lose/lose proposition for the U.S. as Israel's supporter.

SO, it is increasingly argued by those in the know that the U.S. needs to either gather some control over this situation by any and all means necessary, or at a minimum dump Israel like a hot rock and forswear any involvement, and the VAST majority of our foreign policy problems will evaporate overnight as we begin to enjoy again the world-wide respect and influence we once had again.

Foreign policy is almost NEVER about doing the right thing. There is always a level-headed calculation. If it was about doing the right thing then the U.S. would have supported the Palestinians AT LEAST from the Carter administration forward, for since that time they have clearly known what the "right thing to do" has been.

 

[amity1844]

Incidentally, the bulk of historians still understand that nuking Nagasaki and Hiroshima saved several hundred thousand Allied casualties - and MILLIONS of Japanese lives. Look up the accounts of the island fighting, and how the Japanese *dependents* committed suicide over their troops losing the battles. Do a little research on 'bushido' and understand a little about the mindset of the Japanese people....

Yes, that is EXACTLY what I was trying to say. The U.S. has formed the idea that dropping nuclear bombs can actually save lives. And so never totally rule out the nuclear option in any major conflict that seems unresolvable. But I really do think it is vanishing unlikely.

And for myself, I don't approve of dropping nuclear bombs on unarmed civilians

 

[amity1844]

"Mental problems". Is what what they're calling it now? So Natan Zada and Jacob Titel and Baruch Goldstein all suffered from mental problems as well?


Good to know. Palestinians always have an excuse, right?

Typical.

Now I've got to look them up? Heck no, you do it.

I'm not defending, but I am also not going to denounce. I don;t denounce the losers.

 

[Phoenall]

Google 'Murder of Helena Rapp'. You'd be surprised.

So I DID and all I found was that she was stabbed on a street corner by someone believed to have mental problems. Other than that, the only coverage is just on hate sites.

It takes a rare kind of cruelty, even for beasts, to rip the heart of an innocent young girl while she's still alive.


As the old saying goes, "This is what I do", said the scorpion to the frog

You see though, a scorpion does it by nature because it is part of its biology as a species. Palestinians are not a different species. They are as human as anyone else, even Jewish people, and subject to all the same crap that goes on in anyone who has been traumatized (as pretty much everyone has). So here again I question the propriety of calling human beings animals. If you say it often enough, you talk yourself into setting up a slaughterhouse.

Culture and upbringing can have an effect on many people, take the Palestinians doctrine preached from the Koran that tells them to kill the Jews. If they follow that then they are no better than the mentally deficient prophet and inventor of islam. He was an animal and he has decreed that all muslims must be just like him. So it makes the Palestinians lower than the animals because even animals protect their young

 

[proudveteran06]

Why even respond to her? Her " excuse" is that this is the I/P Board so those things can't be addressed. She is a liar. If I were to say that Muslims were killing both other Muslims and Christians without ant lengthy discussion or threads the Monitors would Not warn me or chastise me . Have a question; ( This should be Good) What's wrong with the Israelis doing to the Palestinians what Muslims do to Christians??

Why don't we address what Serbs did to Muslims when discussing civil rights in the deep south? They're both Christian....

Look. I found some Israeli propaganda videos alleging that Muslims are persecuting Christians in Palestine. Palestinian Christians post saying "No, it is not true! The Muslims aren't bothering us at all. It is the Israelis!!" Then the Zionists come along behind them and bury everything.

Still not acknowledging what Muslims are doing to other Muslims and Christians . You are predictable Christians ARE being persecuted in " Palestine" but what if they weren't? That has nothing to do with the Facts regarding Muslim Persecution of others by Killing. Beheading, Hanging, etc. etc.

 

[amity1844]

Culture and upbringing can have an effect on many people, take the Palestinians doctrine preached from the Koran that tells them to kill the Jews. If they follow that then they are no better than the mentally deficient prophet and inventor of islam. He was an animal and he has decreed that all muslims must be just like him. So it makes the Palestinians lower than the animals because even animals protect their young

more sloppy thinking.
Palestinians and Muslims are not equivalent terms.
The Q'uran does not say to kill Jews.

I erased too much and now can't see who it was who made this idiotic comment.
This is really stupid. I have to remind myself "we want a secular democratic state, a secular democratic state."

Aaaaa, it's Lipush.
You've got to tell me what Muslims, what Christians, and what Jews we are talking about. If it has nothing to do with Palestine, then it has nothing to do with Palestine. Now put up or shut up.

 

[Sally]

Culture and upbringing can have an effect on many people, take the Palestinians doctrine preached from the Koran that tells them to kill the Jews. If they follow that then they are no better than the mentally deficient prophet and inventor of islam. He was an animal and he has decreed that all muslims must be just like him. So it makes the Palestinians lower than the animals because even animals protect their young

more sloppy thinking.
Palestinians and Muslims are not equivalent terms.
The Q'uran does not say to kill Jews.

I erased too much and now can't see who it was who made this idiotic comment.
This is really stupid. I have to remind myself "we want a secular democratic state, a secular democratic state."

Aaaaa, it's Lipush.
You've got to tell me what Muslims, what Christians, and what Jews we are talking about. If it has nothing to do with Palestine, then it has nothing to do with Palestine. Now put up or shut up.

Kill Jews for Allah | PMW

 

[amity1844]

Still not acknowledging what Muslims are doing to other Muslims and Christians . You are predictable Christians ARE being persecuted in " Palestine" but what if they weren't? That has nothing to do with the Facts regarding Muslim Persecution of others by Killing. Beheading, Hanging, etc. etc.

I don't know a single Christian who believes that. Not in Palestine at any rate.