Looks like we got another one

[CrusaderFrank]

I thought these guys had rights under the US Constitution?

Can some Libul explain to me why the 911 Mastermind has Constitutional rights but the guy in the OP does not?

Probably because he died first.

That said, the most vicious (which would include KSM and a few others) are going to be tried in federal court so that the entire world will see justice done, not by some unenthusiastic military tribunal closed to the public. In 8 years, the military tribunals have been restructured three times resulting in only 3 of them convicted. But since 2001, the federal courts have tried over 145.

So now KSM will be able to get access to US Intel under Discovery, that's smart. Was he Mirandized? Did he have a lawyer with him when he confessed? Was his confession coerced.

Then again, the point is: why does KSM have rights but the Islamists in the OP does not?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

2 bad guys holds up in an abandoned factory in downtown L.A., they get into a shootout with the police, the one that gets a bullet in the head does not get a trial with a lawyer, the one that gets apprehended does.

Nice try. The police had to say, "This is the Police! We have the garage surrounded! Give yourselves up and we will not harm you or hurt you neither!" Right?

Or do the police call in artillery support and a Predator strike before charging the building without warning?

Big Disconnect on the Imaginary US Constitutional right of Jihadists you got there.

So what are you saying? That enemies captured on battlegrounds on other soil should be read their Miranda rights? A US law? Are you really that stupid?

No, that's what Obama, Holder and Pelosi are saying. I'm saying they HAVE NO STANDING under the Constitution.

 

[noose4]

And KSM was treated as well as any other Enemy Combatant and better than many until SCOTUS and Obama decided he had rights under the Constitution

What??

Waterboarding 186 times is being treated well?

Better than summary execution like they were under FDR

ehhh my father guarded Japanese p.o.w.'s back then, who was summarily executed?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What??

Waterboarding 186 times is being treated well?

Better than summary execution like they were under FDR

ehhh my father guarded Japanese p.o.w.'s back then, who was summarily executed?

German Enemy Combatants....remember?

 

[noose4]

Better than summary execution like they were under FDR

ehhh my father guarded Japanese p.o.w.'s back then, who was summarily executed?

German Enemy Combatants....remember?

We had German p.o.w.'s held right here in the U.S., they were treated quite well.

 

[Ringel05]

What??

Waterboarding 186 times is being treated well?

Better than summary execution like they were under FDR

ehhh my father guarded Japanese p.o.w.'s back then, who was summarily executed?

The few that we actually captured and not killed outright trying to surrender, not that I'm condemning the practice. With the Japs there was a valid reason for most of it.

 

[MaggieMae]

I thought these guys had rights under the US Constitution?

Can some Libul explain to me why the 911 Mastermind has Constitutional rights but the guy in the OP does not?

Probably because he died first.

That said, the most vicious (which would include KSM and a few others) are going to be tried in federal court so that the entire world will see justice done, not by some unenthusiastic military tribunal closed to the public. In 8 years, the military tribunals have been restructured three times resulting in only 3 of them convicted. But since 2001, the federal courts have tried over 145.

So now KSM will be able to get access to US Intel under Discovery, that's smart. Was he Mirandized? Did he have a lawyer with him when he confessed? Was his confession coerced.

Then again, the point is: why does KSM have rights but the Islamists in the OP does not?

No, he won't.
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PROTECTIVE ORDER # 1Â* KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED, WALID MUHAMMAD SALIH MUBARAK

 

[Ringel05]

ehhh my father guarded Japanese p.o.w.'s back then, who was summarily executed?

German Enemy Combatants....remember?

We had German p.o.w.'s held right here in the U.S., they were treated quite well.

In the US yes, after the war Truman and Ike changed their status (those still in Germany and surrounding countries), removing them from POW status, i.e. denying them the protections under the Geneva Convention. It is estimated over one million German soldiers and civilians died in our camps after the war.
Book: Other Losses by James Bacque
(As a side note, the authors' assertions and conclusions are considered controversial and have been challenged by those he claims are responsible and by other but not all historians.)

 

[noose4]

German Enemy Combatants....remember?

We had German p.o.w.'s held right here in the U.S., they were treated quite well.

In the US yes, after the war Truman and Ike changed their status (those still in Germany and surrounding countries), removing them from POW status, i.e. denying them the protections under the Geneva Convention. It is estimated over one million German soldiers and civilians died in our camps after the war.
Book: Other Losses by James Bacque
(As a side note, the authors' assertions and conclusions are considered controversial and have been challenged by those he claims are responsible and by other but not all historians.)

I would call that book conspiracy theory nonsense, with the Marshall plan we did way more than any victorious nation ever did regarding rebuilding our defeated enemies, we were hardly purposely killing them, and a million is quite a large number.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Better than summary execution like they were under FDR

ehhh my father guarded Japanese p.o.w.'s back then, who was summarily executed?

The few that we actually captured and not killed outright trying to surrender, not that I'm condemning the practice. With the Japs there was a valid reason for most of it.

"Herbie Haupt was the first of six Nazi agents to be electrocuted in the District of Columbia jail on Aug. 8, 1942. He was also an American citizen. Two months earlier, on June 17, Haupt had landed ashore with three compatriots at Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida. Their group, along with a second group of four Nazi spies that landed in eastern Long Island on June 13, came from Germany by submarine. They had instructions to destroy American factories, power plants, railroads and other military-industrial sites—an assignment known as Operation Pastorius.

Federal authorities quickly apprehended the eight saboteurs, all of whom were wearing civilian clothing at the time. On July 2, President Franklin D. Roosevelt established a military commission to try them. Six of the eight, including the 22-year-old Haupt, were executed; one was sentenced to life imprisonment; and one was sentenced to thirty years imprisonment."

FDR Got It Right... | The Harvard Crimson

You didn't know your hero executed Enemy Combatants?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Probably because he died first.

That said, the most vicious (which would include KSM and a few others) are going to be tried in federal court so that the entire world will see justice done, not by some unenthusiastic military tribunal closed to the public. In 8 years, the military tribunals have been restructured three times resulting in only 3 of them convicted. But since 2001, the federal courts have tried over 145.

So now KSM will be able to get access to US Intel under Discovery, that's smart. Was he Mirandized? Did he have a lawyer with him when he confessed? Was his confession coerced.

Then again, the point is: why does KSM have rights but the Islamists in the OP does not?

No, he won't.
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PROTECTIVE ORDER # 1Â* KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED, WALID MUHAMMAD SALIH MUBARAK

Um, that's dated Dec 2008 PRIOR to KSM being granted rights under the Constitution as a US Citizen and prior to Obama And Holder decision to try him as such.

Good luck making that stick

 

[Ringel05]

We had German p.o.w.'s held right here in the U.S., they were treated quite well.

In the US yes, after the war Truman and Ike changed their status (those still in Germany and surrounding countries), removing them from POW status, i.e. denying them the protections under the Geneva Convention. It is estimated over one million German soldiers and civilians died in our camps after the war.
Book: Other Losses by James Bacque
(As a side note, the authors' assertions and conclusions are considered controversial and have been challenged by those he claims are responsible and by other but not all historians.)

I would call that book conspiracy theory nonsense, with the Marshall plan we did way more than any victorious nation ever did regarding rebuilding our defeated enemies, we were hardly purposely killing them, and a million is quite a large number.

Which is why the disclaimer at the end. The author claims we purposely neglected them and most died from disease, exposure and malnutrition. Even the Swiss Red Cross claimed some of our camps were worse than the German concentration camps. The military claims it did not have the tents, blankets and food to feed them but records show hundreds of tons of these supplies sitting unused in depots around Germany and Belgium.
The author does have some compelling evidence, but unfortunately the military destroyed all the documentation directly related to the situation. So it's anyone's guess as to what really transpired.

 

[Ringel05]

ehhh my father guarded Japanese p.o.w.'s back then, who was summarily executed?

The few that we actually captured and not killed outright trying to surrender, not that I'm condemning the practice. With the Japs there was a valid reason for most of it.

"Herbie Haupt was the first of six Nazi agents to be electrocuted in the District of Columbia jail on Aug. 8, 1942. He was also an American citizen. Two months earlier, on June 17, Haupt had landed ashore with three compatriots at Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida. Their group, along with a second group of four Nazi spies that landed in eastern Long Island on June 13, came from Germany by submarine. They had instructions to destroy American factories, power plants, railroads and other military-industrial sites—an assignment known as Operation Pastorius.

Federal authorities quickly apprehended the eight saboteurs, all of whom were wearing civilian clothing at the time. On July 2, President Franklin D. Roosevelt established a military commission to try them. Six of the eight, including the 22-year-old Haupt, were executed; one was sentenced to life imprisonment; and one was sentenced to thirty years imprisonment."

FDR Got It Right... | The Harvard Crimson

You didn't know your hero executed Enemy Combatants?

Was that directed at me?

 

[MaggieMae]

Nice try. The police had to say, "This is the Police! We have the garage surrounded! Give yourselves up and we will not harm you or hurt you neither!" Right?

Or do the police call in artillery support and a Predator strike before charging the building without warning?

Big Disconnect on the Imaginary US Constitutional right of Jihadists you got there.

So what are you saying? That enemies captured on battlegrounds on other soil should be read their Miranda rights? A US law? Are you really that stupid?

No, that's what Obama, Holder and Pelosi are saying. I'm saying they HAVE NO STANDING under the Constitution.

The USSC has ruled otherwise. Are you challenging the Supreme Court decision?

The Supreme Court’s Guantánamo ruling: what does it mean? | Andy Worthington

Those who cherish the United States’ historical adherence to the rule of law — myself included — were delighted to hear that the US Supreme Court ruled on Thursday, in the case of Boumediene v. Bush (PDF), that the prisoners at Guantánamo “have the constitutional right to habeas corpus,” enabling them to challenge the basis of their detention, under the terms of the 800-year old “Great Writ” of habeas corpus, which prohibits the suspension of prisoners’ rights to challenge the basis of their detention except in “cases of rebellion or invasion.”

That this decision was required at all was remarkable, as it was almost four years ago, on 29 June 2004, that the Supreme Court ruled, in the case of Rasul v. Bush, that Guantánamo — chosen as a base for the prison because it was presumed to be beyond the reach of the US courts — was “in every practical respect a United States territory,” and that the prisoners therefore had habeas corpus rights, enabling the prisoners to challenge the basis of their detention.

 

[MaggieMae]

So now KSM will be able to get access to US Intel under Discovery, that's smart. Was he Mirandized? Did he have a lawyer with him when he confessed? Was his confession coerced.

Then again, the point is: why does KSM have rights but the Islamists in the OP does not?

No, he won't.
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PROTECTIVE ORDER # 1Â* KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED, WALID MUHAMMAD SALIH MUBARAK

Um, that's dated Dec 2008 PRIOR to KSM being granted rights under the Constitution as a US Citizen and prior to Obama And Holder decision to try him as such.

Good luck making that stick

Huh? If there was already an order of protection, then his case would fall under it. Hello? Are you now suggesting that new and different orders are needed? Look, attorneys for both sides aren't stupid enough to release highly classified information in any event. Don't be such a jerk about this. If you don't like the situation just because Eric Holder is the AG under President Obama and you hate them both, then just say so. But your points arguing the legality are just plain stupid.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So what are you saying? That enemies captured on battlegrounds on other soil should be read their Miranda rights? A US law? Are you really that stupid?

No, that's what Obama, Holder and Pelosi are saying. I'm saying they HAVE NO STANDING under the Constitution.

The USSC has ruled otherwise. Are you challenging the Supreme Court decision?

The Supreme Court’s Guantánamo ruling: what does it mean? | Andy Worthington

Those who cherish the United States’ historical adherence to the rule of law — myself included — were delighted to hear that the US Supreme Court ruled on Thursday, in the case of Boumediene v. Bush (PDF), that the prisoners at Guantánamo “have the constitutional right to habeas corpus,” enabling them to challenge the basis of their detention, under the terms of the 800-year old “Great Writ” of habeas corpus, which prohibits the suspension of prisoners’ rights to challenge the basis of their detention except in “cases of rebellion or invasion.”

That this decision was required at all was remarkable, as it was almost four years ago, on 29 June 2004, that the Supreme Court ruled, in the case of Rasul v. Bush, that Guantánamo — chosen as a base for the prison because it was presumed to be beyond the reach of the US courts — was “in every practical respect a United States territory,” and that the prisoners therefore had habeas corpus rights, enabling the prisoners to challenge the basis of their detention.

That's right up there with Plessey vs Ferguson. SCOTUS is hardly infallible.

And let's go back to the OP, if KSM has rights and standing under the Constitution, why didn't the man Obama murdered with the Predator strike?

Please tell me what is different between KSM and his rights and the man in the OP?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

No, he won't.
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PROTECTIVE ORDER # 1Â* KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED, WALID MUHAMMAD SALIH MUBARAK

Um, that's dated Dec 2008 PRIOR to KSM being granted rights under the Constitution as a US Citizen and prior to Obama And Holder decision to try him as such.

Good luck making that stick

Huh? If there was already an order of protection, then his case would fall under it. Hello? Are you now suggesting that new and different orders are needed? Look, attorneys for both sides aren't stupid enough to release highly classified information in any event. Don't be such a jerk about this. If you don't like the situation just because Eric Holder is the AG under President Obama and you hate them both, then just say so. But your points arguing the legality are just plain stupid.

First, Ive been civil with you you stupid fucking **** and this has nothing to do with my dislike for Obama. This has to do with your stupid fucking idea to try KSM in civilian Court and I'm asking you why didn't the man in the OP have the same standing as KSM as a US citizen. Weren't his "rights" violated?

 

[rightwinger]

Um, that's dated Dec 2008 PRIOR to KSM being granted rights under the Constitution as a US Citizen and prior to Obama And Holder decision to try him as such.

Good luck making that stick

Huh? If there was already an order of protection, then his case would fall under it. Hello? Are you now suggesting that new and different orders are needed? Look, attorneys for both sides aren't stupid enough to release highly classified information in any event. Don't be such a jerk about this. If you don't like the situation just because Eric Holder is the AG under President Obama and you hate them both, then just say so. But your points arguing the legality are just plain stupid.

First, Ive been civil with you you stupid fucking **** and this has nothing to do with my dislike for Obama. This has to do with your stupid fucking idea to try KSM in civilian Court and I'm asking you why didn't the man in the OP have the same standing as KSM as a US citizen. Weren't his "rights" violated?

Your faulty analogy has already been disproved numerous times on this thread. Why do you continue to ressurect it? Are you that dense?

 

[SFC Ollie]

No, he won't.
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PROTECTIVE ORDER # 1Â* KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED, WALID MUHAMMAD SALIH MUBARAK

Um, that's dated Dec 2008 PRIOR to KSM being granted rights under the Constitution as a US Citizen and prior to Obama And Holder decision to try him as such.

Good luck making that stick

Huh? If there was already an order of protection, then his case would fall under it. Hello? Are you now suggesting that new and different orders are needed? Look, attorneys for both sides aren't stupid enough to release highly classified information in any event. Don't be such a jerk about this. If you don't like the situation just because Eric Holder is the AG under President Obama and you hate them both, then just say so. But your points arguing the legality are just plain stupid.

The Protection order was given by the Military tribunal, it will not stand up in a civilian court. Yes it will have to be re-issued or the classified material that may be presented will not be protected, And other Classified material can possibly be subpoenaed.

 

[Yurt]

Um, that's dated Dec 2008 PRIOR to KSM being granted rights under the Constitution as a US Citizen and prior to Obama And Holder decision to try him as such.

Good luck making that stick

Huh? If there was already an order of protection, then his case would fall under it. Hello? Are you now suggesting that new and different orders are needed? Look, attorneys for both sides aren't stupid enough to release highly classified information in any event. Don't be such a jerk about this. If you don't like the situation just because Eric Holder is the AG under President Obama and you hate them both, then just say so. But your points arguing the legality are just plain stupid.

First, Ive been civil with you you stupid fucking **** and this has nothing to do with my dislike for Obama. This has to do with your stupid fucking idea to try KSM in civilian Court and I'm asking you why didn't the man in the OP have the same standing as KSM as a US citizen. Weren't his "rights" violated?

he can't defend his hypocritical stance....

he thinks we should try them because it shows our might, yet he brags that we KILL them with drones....its pathetic