Lois Lerner to take the 5th. Again.

[Jarhead]

Actually I don't care very much, politics as usual etc., but if she speaks I'm sure I'll pick up on it. I read a lot of right-wing websites and they are all excited about her, which usually means there is no there there these days.

Funny...I knew you would answer it like that.

LMAO....blame the right wing......why not?

Its easy.

You sir, are an ass and no longer worthy of my time.

Cya.

No skin off of my nose little buddy. I stopped counting what was supposed to be the end of Obama at 100.

Obama?

This has nothing to do with Obama. He is not foolish enough to get involved in shit like IRS tampering.

I believe this is from some members of congress......

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Funny...I knew you would answer it like that.

LMAO....blame the right wing......why not?

Its easy.

You sir, are an ass and no longer worthy of my time.

Cya.

No skin off of my nose little buddy. I stopped counting what was supposed to be the end of Obama at 100.

Obama?

This has nothing to do with Obama. He is not foolish enough to get involved in shit like IRS tampering.

I believe this is from some members of congress......

With Immunity you get answers? Pay to play is the American Way.

 

[BlindBoo]

OTOH, the ONLY grounds you have for refusing to answer questions, according to the 5th amendment, is that the answers might incriminate you.

If the prosecutors formally agree in court that you will not be prosecuted for what you say (aka "give you immunity"), then that satisfies the 5th amendment's requirement. And then they CAN compel you to testify, and can throw you in jail for contempt of court if you don't.

My guess is, Lerner will go this way. She's protecting her own @ss, not Obama's. Once hers is secure from prosecution, Obama's is toast.

My point, Acorn was that you can't selectively invoke your 5th Amendment rights on a topic that you've already testified to. If that weren't the case then a witness could testify...then refuse to be cross examined by invoking their 5th Amendment rights. If allowed, that would totally undermine our system of justice...which is what Trey Gowdy was referring to when he claimed that Ms. Lerner had no right to claim the 5th after giving specific testimony in which she stated that she had broken no laws and done nothing wrong.

What specifically did she testify too? She made a general statement declaring her innocence and authenticated a document containing her answers for the inspector general's report.

 

[paperview]

That's the risk you take now isn't it? If the legal system is working correctly, some of the guilty go free. If it isn't, the innocent end up in the electric chair.

She voluntarily waived her right to the 5th.

No reason to offer her immunity....

So no, that is NOT the risk we have to take.

Could you perhaps show where this happened?

Ah...I found it.

Pubbies claim she did...and Issa made an Ass outa hisself.

She never waived her 5th Amendment rights.

Lerner's attorney says she won't testify, Issa wrong


Rep. Darrell Issa doesn’t know what he’s talking about, the attorney for former IRS official Lois Lerner said Sunday.


Issa, the California Republican who chairs the House Oversight and Reform Committee, told “Fox News Sunday” that Lerner, the former head of the IRS tax-exempt division, would testify before his committee Wednesday, which he said he had been told by her attorney.


That attorney, William W. Taylor, said Issa is wrong.


“As of now, she intends to continue to assert her Fifth Amendment rights,” Taylor told POLITICO. “I do not know why Issa said what he said.”


Lerner invoked her Fifth Amendment rights not to implicate herself when she appeared before the committee in May 2013, but only after delivering a brief statement defending herself. At the time, Issa and other Republicans said she had waived her Fifth Amendment rights by delivering the statement.


“Her attorney indicates now that she will testify,” Issa told Chris Wallace on Fox on Sunday. “We believe that the evidence we’ve gathered causes her in her best interest to be someone who should testify.”

Lerner's attorney says she won't testify, Issa wrong - POLITICO.com

The car burglar burgles again.

 

[Jarhead]

That's the risk you take now isn't it? If the legal system is working correctly, some of the guilty go free. If it isn't, the innocent end up in the electric chair.

She voluntarily waived her right to the 5th.

No reason to offer her immunity....

So no, that is NOT the risk we have to take.

Could you perhaps show where this happened?

You can not say your piece and THEN declare the 5th.

Once you start talking, you waived your 5th amendment right.

If they asked her questions NOT related to what she spoke about...then yes, she can take the 5th.

But once she said her piece about the issue at hand? She was beholden to answering their questions.

WHy are you not interested in what she has to say?

 

[blackhawk]

If she comes before Congress again before she says a word I would tell her if she makes a speech or opening statement she has waived her right to plead the fifth.

I've wondered about this. The 5th amendment says no witness can be compelled to testify against himself in court. It doesn't say, "Unless he first starts doing it and then stops and say he doesn't want to any more, then he CAN be compelled to keep talking".

Sounds to me like Lerner can give all the opening speeches she wants, and then clam up and not say a further word, and she is protected for doing so by the 5th.

Any other interpretation of the 5th, as written, seems a lot less likely to me.

She's unquestionably a scumbag who knows where the bodies are buried. But even guilty scumbags are protected by the 5th, like it or not. And creative "interpretations" to change that, are illegal.

I'm by no means a legal expert bit it seems to me after you star claiming your innocence and declaring you have done nothing wrong you are testifying and have waived your right declare the 5th. In any even that will have to be decided by those with far more expertise on the subject.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Once you start talking, you waived your 5th amendment right.

That is incorrect. It sure looks bad though, and the Supreme Court says it can be used against you now.

 

[Jarhead]

She voluntarily waived her right to the 5th.

No reason to offer her immunity....

So no, that is NOT the risk we have to take.

Could you perhaps show where this happened?

Ah...I found it.

Pubbies claim she did...and Issa made an Ass outa hisself.

She never waived her 5th Amendment rights.

Lerner's attorney says she won't testify, Issa wrong


Rep. Darrell Issa doesn’t know what he’s talking about, the attorney for former IRS official Lois Lerner said Sunday.


Issa, the California Republican who chairs the House Oversight and Reform Committee, told “Fox News Sunday” that Lerner, the former head of the IRS tax-exempt division, would testify before his committee Wednesday, which he said he had been told by her attorney.


That attorney, William W. Taylor, said Issa is wrong.


“As of now, she intends to continue to assert her Fifth Amendment rights,” Taylor told POLITICO. “I do not know why Issa said what he said.”


Lerner invoked her Fifth Amendment rights not to implicate herself when she appeared before the committee in May 2013, but only after delivering a brief statement defending herself. At the time, Issa and other Republicans said she had waived her Fifth Amendment rights by delivering the statement.


“Her attorney indicates now that she will testify,” Issa told Chris Wallace on Fox on Sunday. “We believe that the evidence we’ve gathered causes her in her best interest to be someone who should testify.”

Lerner's attorney says she won't testify, Issa wrong - POLITICO.com

The car burglar burgles again.

wow.

I thought you were better than that.

FYI.......your info is convoluted.

Had enough of this childish back on forth on this topic.

The fact that ANYONE is NOT interested in what she knows is troubling.

 

[Jarhead]

Once you start talking, you waived your 5th amendment right.

That is incorrect.

Sure...take one sentence and make a comment.

The entire post explains it.

Done with you and your asinine posting.

Cya.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Once you start talking, you waived your 5th amendment right.

That is incorrect.

Sure...take one sentence and make a comment.

The entire post explains it.

Done with you and your asinine posting.

Cya.

I clarified it above. And I do that. Your position is false.

Here it is: http://jonathanturley.org/2013/06/1...can-be-used-against-defendant-to-prove-guilt/

 

[Oldstyle]

OTOH, the ONLY grounds you have for refusing to answer questions, according to the 5th amendment, is that the answers might incriminate you.

If the prosecutors formally agree in court that you will not be prosecuted for what you say (aka "give you immunity"), then that satisfies the 5th amendment's requirement. And then they CAN compel you to testify, and can throw you in jail for contempt of court if you don't.

My guess is, Lerner will go this way. She's protecting her own @ss, not Obama's. Once hers is secure from prosecution, Obama's is toast.

My point, Acorn was that you can't selectively invoke your 5th Amendment rights on a topic that you've already testified to. If that weren't the case then a witness could testify...then refuse to be cross examined by invoking their 5th Amendment rights. If allowed, that would totally undermine our system of justice...which is what Trey Gowdy was referring to when he claimed that Ms. Lerner had no right to claim the 5th after giving specific testimony in which she stated that she had broken no laws and done nothing wrong.

What specifically did she testify too? She made a general statement declaring her innocence and authenticated a document containing her answers for the inspector general's report.

You can't testify that you broke no laws in connection with the investigation you were called in to testify about and then invoke your 5th Amendment rights. By testifying that you broke no laws you've left yourself open to questioning as to whether or not that statement is factual or not. That's the way our system works!

 

[bripat9643]

Everyone should take the 5th? Tell me you're not a lawyer.

I'll have to invoke my right against......on that one.

what planet do you live on? taking the 5th is an admission of guilt. what you are saying is "yes I did it, but you have to prove it, I refuse to confess"

The only time anyone invokes the 5th Amendment is when testifying before Congress. For a criminal trial it isn't necessary. Defendants seldom testify in court.

 

[paperview]

Could you perhaps show where this happened?

Ah...I found it.

Pubbies claim she did...and Issa made an Ass outa hisself.

She never waived her 5th Amendment rights.

Lerner's attorney says she won't testify, Issa wrong


Rep. Darrell Issa doesn’t know what he’s talking about, the attorney for former IRS official Lois Lerner said Sunday.


Issa, the California Republican who chairs the House Oversight and Reform Committee, told “Fox News Sunday” that Lerner, the former head of the IRS tax-exempt division, would testify before his committee Wednesday, which he said he had been told by her attorney.


That attorney, William W. Taylor, said Issa is wrong.


“As of now, she intends to continue to assert her Fifth Amendment rights,” Taylor told POLITICO. “I do not know why Issa said what he said.”


Lerner invoked her Fifth Amendment rights not to implicate herself when she appeared before the committee in May 2013, but only after delivering a brief statement defending herself. At the time, Issa and other Republicans said she had waived her Fifth Amendment rights by delivering the statement.


“Her attorney indicates now that she will testify,” Issa told Chris Wallace on Fox on Sunday. “We believe that the evidence we’ve gathered causes her in her best interest to be someone who should testify.”

Lerner's attorney says she won't testify, Issa wrong - POLITICO.com

The car burglar burgles again.

wow.

I thought you were better than that.

FYI.......your info is convoluted.

Had enough of this childish back on forth on this topic.

The fact that ANYONE is NOT interested in what she knows is troubling.

There's that sensitivity again. I thought you were better than that.

I merely pointed out what you claim is wrong.

She did not waive her 5th Amendment rights.

Some people falsely saying she did does not make it so.

I linked to her lawyer, and to the jibber from the idiot Issa who made a false claim yesterday.

I'd like to hear from her. Why doesn't Issa offer her immunity?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I'll have to invoke my right against......on that one.

what planet do you live on? taking the 5th is an admission of guilt. what you are saying is "yes I did it, but you have to prove it, I refuse to confess"

The only time anyone invokes the 5th Amendment is when testifying before Congress. For a criminal trial it isn't necessary. Defendants seldom testify in court.

They get called in to Grand Juries all the time. Happens there too.

 

[Dot Com]

She voluntarily waived her right to the 5th.

No reason to offer her immunity....

So no, that is NOT the risk we have to take.

Could you perhaps show where this happened?

Ah...I found it.

Pubbies claim she did...and Issa made an Ass outa hisself.

She never waived her 5th Amendment rights.

Lerner's attorney says she won't testify, Issa wrong


Rep. Darrell Issa doesn’t know what he’s talking about, the attorney for former IRS official Lois Lerner said Sunday.


Issa, the California Republican who chairs the House Oversight and Reform Committee, told “Fox News Sunday” that Lerner, the former head of the IRS tax-exempt division, would testify before his committee Wednesday, which he said he had been told by her attorney.


That attorney, William W. Taylor, said Issa is wrong.


“As of now, she intends to continue to assert her Fifth Amendment rights,” Taylor told POLITICO. “I do not know why Issa said what he said.”


Lerner invoked her Fifth Amendment rights not to implicate herself when she appeared before the committee in May 2013, but only after delivering a brief statement defending herself. At the time, Issa and other Republicans said she had waived her Fifth Amendment rights by delivering the statement.


“Her attorney indicates now that she will testify,” Issa told Chris Wallace on Fox on Sunday. “We believe that the evidence we’ve gathered causes her in her best interest to be someone who should testify.”

Lerner's attorney says she won't testify, Issa wrong - POLITICO.com

The car burglar burgles again.

well I guess that settles it. No Issa dog & pony show redux for him.

 

[paperview]

I'll have to invoke my right against......on that one.

what planet do you live on? taking the 5th is an admission of guilt. what you are saying is "yes I did it, but you have to prove it, I refuse to confess"

The only time anyone invokes the 5th Amendment is when testifying before Congress. For a criminal trial it isn't necessary. Defendants seldom testify in court.

Holy shit. What a huge pile of Idiocy this post is. Man oh man.

What in the holy freak defense do you think criminal trial defendants use when they do not testify????

People "claim the 5th" every day in America. It can start as early as a cop stop.

 

[UJANGTEUING]

Hello Thanks

 

[PaintMyHouse]

what planet do you live on? taking the 5th is an admission of guilt. what you are saying is "yes I did it, but you have to prove it, I refuse to confess"

The only time anyone invokes the 5th Amendment is when testifying before Congress. For a criminal trial it isn't necessary. Defendants seldom testify in court.

Holy shit. What a huge pile of Idiocy this post is. Man oh man.

What in the holy freak defense do you think criminal trial defendants use when they do not testify????

People "claim the 5th" every day in America. It can start as early as a cop stop.

Sir, do you know how fast your were going?

38 officer. Oh wait, that's tachometer and I was in fifth. I've got to get those new glasses!

 

[bripat9643]

what planet do you live on? taking the 5th is an admission of guilt. what you are saying is "yes I did it, but you have to prove it, I refuse to confess"

The only time anyone invokes the 5th Amendment is when testifying before Congress. For a criminal trial it isn't necessary. Defendants seldom testify in court.

Holy shit. What a huge pile of Idiocy this post is. Man oh man.

What in the holy freak defense do you think criminal trial defendants use when they do not testify????

People "claim the 5th" every day in America. It can start as early as a cop stop.

They don't literally stand up in court in and announce they are taking the Fifth Amendment. In fact, the judge will ask them if they want to waive their Fifth Amendment rights if they decide to testify.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

My point, Acorn was that you can't selectively invoke your 5th Amendment rights on a topic that you've already testified to. If that weren't the case then a witness could testify...then refuse to be cross examined by invoking their 5th Amendment rights. If allowed, that would totally undermine our system of justice...which is what Trey Gowdy was referring to when he claimed that Ms. Lerner had no right to claim the 5th after giving specific testimony in which she stated that she had broken no laws and done nothing wrong.

What specifically did she testify too? She made a general statement declaring her innocence and authenticated a document containing her answers for the inspector general's report.

You can't testify that you broke no laws in connection with the investigation you were called in to testify about and then invoke your 5th Amendment rights. By testifying that you broke no laws you've left yourself open to questioning as to whether or not that statement is factual or not. That's the way our system works!

Tell us about the IRS? IRS? Never heard of it. Oh, I work there? Really, well that's news to me.