Like obamacare? read this

[Redfish]

Nope, its fact. before obozocare no one in the USA was denied medical care.

Not sure what this new entity is you're talking about, but I'd like to see you prove that prior to the PPACA no one in the U.S. was denied medical care.

Hospitals could not turn anyone away before ACA. Yeah, they had to use the ER rather than a doctors office. BFD, when you get something free it may be a little inconvenient.

Granted. But patients were denied coverage for preexisting conditions, and insurers placed caps on coverage for chronic and/or expensive conditions.

"Oh, you have cancer? Treatment will cost $100,000? Sucks to be you."

being denied insurance is not being denied treatment. MD Anderson treats cancer patients whether they have insurance or not, so does Ochsner, Cleveland clinic, and Mayo clinic, Shriners, St.Jude, etc. Sure, they try to collect, but they realize that you can't get blood from a turnip and they don't take people to court.

You are parroting a false narrative.

So your solution is "defraud hospitals." Gotcha.

of course not. What is being done under ACA is exactly the same as what was being done before ACA, those who pay for coverage are paying for the ones who do not pay. If you are getting obamacare free or heavily subsidized and I am paying full premium, then I am actually paying your premium or subsidy.

Its no different than what was going on before. Except that now we also have to pay for a huge govt beaurocracy to administer this POS law.

 

[Redfish]

It was written by dem staffers in a sealed room, it was passed by dems only using reconciliation which had never been used before for something so significant, the vote was forced before anyone had a chance to read it, the public was not allowed to know what it contained before the vote. It was democrat corruption at its worst.

before the vote, no floor discussion was allowed, no GOP amendments were allowed to be brought to the floor. It was terrible legislation passed in the worst possible way.

This is absurd revisionist history.

The provisions of that legislation were debated publicly for nine months--Congressional town halls, Presidential town halls, TV, newspapers, the internet, you name it. This was the topic of discussion nationally for the entire second half of 2009 and and the first quarter of 2010. It was by far the most publicly scrutinized legislation in my lifetime. Did you somehow miss this enormous national discussion that enveloped the country six years ago?

And the Senate didn't pass the ACA via reconciliation (the ACA passed with a filibuster-proof 60 votes), it passed subsequent financial tweaks to the ACA using reconciliation. And that was after nearly a month of floor debate in the Senate.

Here's John McCain on the process in the Senate:

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ): I would like to make sure that my colleagues and especially those who were not here in 2009 understand that there are many of us who are opposed to Obamacare, as it's called, the Affordable Care Act, and the opposition that we mounted in 2009, it's a matter of record that, to start with, the Senate Finance Committee considered the Affordable Care Act over several weeks and approved the bill on October 13 of 2009.

At that time, members of the Finance Committee submitted 564 amendments, 135 amendments were considered, 79 roll call votes taken, 41 amendments were adopted. Then the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee approved the Affordable Care Act by 13-10 after a month-long debate. 500 amendments were considered, more than 160 Republican amendments were accepted.

And then it came to the floor of the Senate, and the Affordable Care Act was on the floor for 25 straight days, including weekends between Thanksgiving and Christmas of 2009. 506 amendments were filed, 228 of which were Republican. 34 roll call votes were held. Most roll call votes resulted in party-line votes, including a motion which I had to commit the bill to the Finance Committee for a rewrite.

Not true, the subject of national health care was debated for months and years. The actual ACA bill had zero debate, no open forums, no floor debate in either house, no public readings, no postings on c-span (as obama promised). It was written in a sealed room and passed by dems only. In order to get by the 60 vote senate requirement they used reconciliation provisions that had never before been allowed for something of this magnitude.

It was terrible legislation passed in a corrupt way. Deal with that reality.

So you're just basically covering your ears and saying nya nya nyah!!!

AGAIN:from Greenbeards link:

At that time, members of the Finance Committee submitted 564 amendments, 135 amendments were considered, 79 roll call votes taken, 41 amendments were adopted. Then the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee approved the Affordable Care Act by 13-10 after a month-long debate. 500 amendments were considered, more than 160 Republican amendments were accepted.

And then it came to the floor of the Senate, and the Affordable Care Act was on the floor for 25 straight days, including weekends between Thanksgiving and Christmas of 2009. 506 amendments were filed, 228 of which were Republican. 34 roll call votes were held. Most roll call votes resulted in party-line votes, including a motion which I had to commit the bill to the Finance Committee for a rewrite.

I don't know who greenbeards is, but what he/she/it said is not what actually happened. But you libs live in fantasy land so I guess you will continue to buy the fraud that has been rammed up our collective asses.

 

[Redfish]

The govt is dictating what coverages can/must be offered

If you mean "the PPACA is telling insurers they can no longer cap benefits or exclude would-be applicants for preexisting conditions," you're correct.

Those are to the benefit of the patient. Yanno, Americans. Why do you hate Americans?

those are the only good provisions of the ACA law. Those two changes could have been done with a one page bill that would have received unanimous approval in both houses.

The rest of the 2000 pages made everything worse.

how would you know? anecdotal evidence? Puhleeease.

premiums are higher, deductibles are higher, people are forced to buy coverage that they don't want or need. Its been in the news for years, do you live under a rock?

IOW's - you miss the insurance that was there, that is, until you actually needed it?

total bullshit. the so-called minimum standards require a 65 year old woman and a single male to pay for maternity care.

 

[Greenbeard]

I don't know who greenbeards is, but what he/she/it said is not what actually happened. But you libs live in fantasy land so I guess you will continue to buy the fraud that has been rammed up our collective asses.

He was actually quoting McCain's description of what happened. Which happens to be correct. The Senate floor debate over the ACA went on for weeks (in Nov-Dec 2009). This is after weeks and weeks of televised committee markups and debate.

You can still watch highlights from the floor debate on C-Span. Here you go, dozens and dozens of hours of televised floor debate for your viewing pleasure:

November 20, 2009: The Senate began debate on comprehensive health care reform legislation.

November 21, 2009: The Senate continued a second day of debate on health care reform legislation. They voted 60-39 to move forward with further debate on the bill.

November 30, 2009: The Senate debated health care reform. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) warned Senators to expect daily votes on the bill, plus evening and weekend sessions. 

December 1, 2009: The Senate continued a second day of debate on H.R. 3590, the $848B plan to expand health insurance coverage. Among amendments debated today is one by Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) to ensure access to preventive screening for women. More amendments are expected today.

December 2, 2009: The Senate continued debate on Senator Barbara Mikulski’s (D-MD) amendment ensuring access to preventive services for women and Senator John McCain’s (R-AZ) Motion to Commit on Medicare. The Senators are taking up H.R. 3590, the $848B plan to expand health insurance coverage.

December 3, 2009: Senate debate continues on H.R. 3590, the $848B plan to expand health insurance coverage. Senators will begin voting on amendments submitted by Senator Barbara Mikulski (D-MD), Senator Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) and Senator John McCain (R-AZ) around 11:45am ET. Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE) is expected to introduce an amendment restricting abortion funding. Senator McCain’s (R-AZ) motion to send the health care bill back to the Finance Committee was defeated 42 - 58.

December 4, 2009: The Senate proceeded with debate on amendments to H.R. 3590, the health care bill. Yesterday, the Senate passed an amendment providing preventive health services for women and another guaranteeing Medicare benefits. Debate on the bill continued over the weekend. 

December 5, 2009: Senate proceeded with debate on amendments to health care legislation. Two amendments considered included a proposal from Senator Lincoln on limiting executive compensation for health insurance companies. The Senate voted 41 to 53 against the motion by Senator Johanns to send the bill back to the Finance Committee to remove cuts in payments to home health agencies.

December 6, 2009: The Senate reconvened in a special weekend session. Members continued debate on amendments, including a proposal from Senator Lincoln (D-AR) on limiting executive compensation for health insurance companies, and Senator Ensign’s (R-NV) amendment regarding attorney fees.  Later, both amendments failed to pass. The amendment on attorney fees submitted by Senator Ensign (R-NV) failed by a vote of 32 - 66. Amendments require at least 60 votes to pass. Senate Majority Leader Reid (D-NV) also announced that an abortion amendment will be taken up tomorrow.

December 7, 2009: The U.S. Senate began the second week and eighth day of health care legislation. They began by considering amendments from Senators Gregg and Pryor. Senator Gregg’s bars the use of any Medicare rate increases from anything other than Medicare. Senator Pryor’s requires Health and Human Services to survey those taking part in the health insurance exchange creating the bill.

December 8, 2009: Day 9 of the Senate health care reform debate. Senators discuss an amendment, submitted by Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE), restricting the use of federal funds for abortions and Senator John McCain’s (R-AZ) motion to commit on Medicare Advantage beneficiaries. The Nelson Amendment failed on a vote of 54 to 45. The Senate also took up Senator Dorgan’s prescription drug re-importation amendment. In addition, the Senate reached an agreement on health care legislation that would no longer include a new government-run insurance program, or “public option.”

December 9, 2009: On day 10 of debate on health care reform, senators took up an amendment on drug importation and more debate on a motion to send the bill back to the Finance Committee. 

December 10, 2009: Health care debate continues.

December 12, 2009: The Senate convened, with an omnibus bill cloture vote and then continued with health care reform legislation.

December 13, 2009: In a rare Sunday session the Senate took a final vote on the $447 billion FY 2010 omnibus spending bill. After the vote, members continued to debate health care legislation. 

December 14, 2009: The Senate resumed consideration of health care legislation. Several amendments were considered, including one to allow citizens to buy prescription drugs from other countries and bring them into the U.S. Others deal with tax provisions. Senators have been waiting for the Congressional Budget Office to come up with cost estimates for a plan to replace the public option in the bill.

December 15, 2009: Senators planned to finish debate on several amendments and motions dealing with buying prescription from other countries and middle class taxes. 

December 16, 2009: The Senate held its 15th day of health care debate. Senator Bernie Sanders entered an amendment for a single-payer system by expanding Medicare to everyone. Senator Coburn requested that the over 700 pages of the Sanders Amendment be read aloud. Eventually Senator Sanders withdrew his amendment, although his right to do so was contested. Work began on Defense appropriations legislation.

December 17, 2009: Throughout the day, Senators may continue to speak on health care legislation and the Senate is expected to return to the debate after voting on the defense bill. 

December 19, 2009: The Senate voted on fiscal year 2010 defense spending and thereafter resumed debate on health care legislation. This is the 17th day of health care debate.

December 21, 2009: The Senate continued debate on health care legislation.

December 22, 2009: The Senate approved Majority Leader Reid’s Managers Amendment with a vote of 60-39.

December 23, 2009: Vote to waive Corker point of order on unfunded mandates passed by a vote of 55 - 44. The Senate is now holding a series of votes, including adoption of the Majority Leader’s substitute amendment and a vote to limit debate on the bill. 

December 24, 2009: The Senate passed the $871 billion health care bill, H.R. 3590, by a vote of 60 to 39. Senator Bunning (R-KY) was the only Senator not voting. 

 

[Greenbeard]

total bullshit. the so-called minimum standards require a 65 year old woman and a single male to pay for maternity care.

A 65-year-old would be on Medicare.

And if you're unclear on the role a man plays in making a baby, I won't ruin the surprise for you. But spoiler alert: a stork dropping off a baby with mom is not how procreation actually works.

 

[Redfish]

total bullshit. the so-called minimum standards require a 65 year old woman and a single male to pay for maternity care.

A 65-year-old would be on Medicare.

And if you're unclear on the role a man plays in making a baby, I won't ruin the surprise for you. But spoiler alert: a stork dropping off a baby with mom is not how procreation actually works.

OK, substitute a 60 year old woman. I do understand human reproduction quite well, much better than you if you think a male can give birth.

 

[Redfish]

I don't know who greenbeards is, but what he/she/it said is not what actually happened. But you libs live in fantasy land so I guess you will continue to buy the fraud that has been rammed up our collective asses.

He was actually quoting McCain's description of what happened. Which happens to be correct. The Senate floor debate over the ACA went on for weeks (in Nov-Dec 2009). This is after weeks and weeks of televised committee markups and debate.

You can still watch highlights from the floor debate on C-Span. Here you go, dozens and dozens of hours of televised floor debate for your viewing pleasure:

November 20, 2009: The Senate began debate on comprehensive health care reform legislation.

November 21, 2009: The Senate continued a second day of debate on health care reform legislation. They voted 60-39 to move forward with further debate on the bill.

November 30, 2009: The Senate debated health care reform. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) warned Senators to expect daily votes on the bill, plus evening and weekend sessions. 

December 1, 2009: The Senate continued a second day of debate on H.R. 3590, the $848B plan to expand health insurance coverage. Among amendments debated today is one by Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) to ensure access to preventive screening for women. More amendments are expected today.

December 2, 2009: The Senate continued debate on Senator Barbara Mikulski’s (D-MD) amendment ensuring access to preventive services for women and Senator John McCain’s (R-AZ) Motion to Commit on Medicare. The Senators are taking up H.R. 3590, the $848B plan to expand health insurance coverage.

December 3, 2009: Senate debate continues on H.R. 3590, the $848B plan to expand health insurance coverage. Senators will begin voting on amendments submitted by Senator Barbara Mikulski (D-MD), Senator Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) and Senator John McCain (R-AZ) around 11:45am ET. Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE) is expected to introduce an amendment restricting abortion funding. Senator McCain’s (R-AZ) motion to send the health care bill back to the Finance Committee was defeated 42 - 58.

December 4, 2009: The Senate proceeded with debate on amendments to H.R. 3590, the health care bill. Yesterday, the Senate passed an amendment providing preventive health services for women and another guaranteeing Medicare benefits. Debate on the bill continued over the weekend. 

December 5, 2009: Senate proceeded with debate on amendments to health care legislation. Two amendments considered included a proposal from Senator Lincoln on limiting executive compensation for health insurance companies. The Senate voted 41 to 53 against the motion by Senator Johanns to send the bill back to the Finance Committee to remove cuts in payments to home health agencies.

December 6, 2009: The Senate reconvened in a special weekend session. Members continued debate on amendments, including a proposal from Senator Lincoln (D-AR) on limiting executive compensation for health insurance companies, and Senator Ensign’s (R-NV) amendment regarding attorney fees.  Later, both amendments failed to pass. The amendment on attorney fees submitted by Senator Ensign (R-NV) failed by a vote of 32 - 66. Amendments require at least 60 votes to pass. Senate Majority Leader Reid (D-NV) also announced that an abortion amendment will be taken up tomorrow.

December 7, 2009: The U.S. Senate began the second week and eighth day of health care legislation. They began by considering amendments from Senators Gregg and Pryor. Senator Gregg’s bars the use of any Medicare rate increases from anything other than Medicare. Senator Pryor’s requires Health and Human Services to survey those taking part in the health insurance exchange creating the bill.

December 8, 2009: Day 9 of the Senate health care reform debate. Senators discuss an amendment, submitted by Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE), restricting the use of federal funds for abortions and Senator John McCain’s (R-AZ) motion to commit on Medicare Advantage beneficiaries. The Nelson Amendment failed on a vote of 54 to 45. The Senate also took up Senator Dorgan’s prescription drug re-importation amendment. In addition, the Senate reached an agreement on health care legislation that would no longer include a new government-run insurance program, or “public option.”

December 9, 2009: On day 10 of debate on health care reform, senators took up an amendment on drug importation and more debate on a motion to send the bill back to the Finance Committee. 

December 10, 2009: Health care debate continues.

December 12, 2009: The Senate convened, with an omnibus bill cloture vote and then continued with health care reform legislation.

December 13, 2009: In a rare Sunday session the Senate took a final vote on the $447 billion FY 2010 omnibus spending bill. After the vote, members continued to debate health care legislation. 

December 14, 2009: The Senate resumed consideration of health care legislation. Several amendments were considered, including one to allow citizens to buy prescription drugs from other countries and bring them into the U.S. Others deal with tax provisions. Senators have been waiting for the Congressional Budget Office to come up with cost estimates for a plan to replace the public option in the bill.

December 15, 2009: Senators planned to finish debate on several amendments and motions dealing with buying prescription from other countries and middle class taxes. 

December 16, 2009: The Senate held its 15th day of health care debate. Senator Bernie Sanders entered an amendment for a single-payer system by expanding Medicare to everyone. Senator Coburn requested that the over 700 pages of the Sanders Amendment be read aloud. Eventually Senator Sanders withdrew his amendment, although his right to do so was contested. Work began on Defense appropriations legislation.

December 17, 2009: Throughout the day, Senators may continue to speak on health care legislation and the Senate is expected to return to the debate after voting on the defense bill. 

December 19, 2009: The Senate voted on fiscal year 2010 defense spending and thereafter resumed debate on health care legislation. This is the 17th day of health care debate.

December 21, 2009: The Senate continued debate on health care legislation.

December 22, 2009: The Senate approved Majority Leader Reid’s Managers Amendment with a vote of 60-39.

December 23, 2009: Vote to waive Corker point of order on unfunded mandates passed by a vote of 55 - 44. The Senate is now holding a series of votes, including adoption of the Majority Leader’s substitute amendment and a vote to limit debate on the bill. 

December 24, 2009: The Senate passed the $871 billion health care bill, H.R. 3590, by a vote of 60 to 39. Senator Bunning (R-KY) was the only Senator not voting. 

None of that debate was on the actual bill that was passed by the dems in congress. There was zero debate on the actual bill that was passed.

Nice try, but you FAIL

 

[Greenbeard]

None of that debate was on the actual bill that was passed by the dems in congress. There was zero debate on the actual bill that was passed.

Nice try, but you FAIL

The bill they debated for three weeks on the floor was H.R. 3590, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. Signed by the President the following March.

Stop being willfully stupid.

 

[Dot Com]

It was written by dem staffers in a sealed room, it was passed by dems only using reconciliation which had never been used before for something so significant, the vote was forced before anyone had a chance to read it, the public was not allowed to know what it contained before the vote. It was democrat corruption at its worst.

before the vote, no floor discussion was allowed, no GOP amendments were allowed to be brought to the floor. It was terrible legislation passed in the worst possible way.

This is absurd revisionist history.

The provisions of that legislation were debated publicly for nine months--Congressional town halls, Presidential town halls, TV, newspapers, the internet, you name it. This was the topic of discussion nationally for the entire second half of 2009 and and the first quarter of 2010. It was by far the most publicly scrutinized legislation in my lifetime. Did you somehow miss this enormous national discussion that enveloped the country six years ago?

And the Senate didn't pass the ACA via reconciliation (the ACA passed with a filibuster-proof 60 votes), it passed subsequent financial tweaks to the ACA using reconciliation. And that was after nearly a month of floor debate in the Senate.

Here's John McCain on the process in the Senate:

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ): I would like to make sure that my colleagues and especially those who were not here in 2009 understand that there are many of us who are opposed to Obamacare, as it's called, the Affordable Care Act, and the opposition that we mounted in 2009, it's a matter of record that, to start with, the Senate Finance Committee considered the Affordable Care Act over several weeks and approved the bill on October 13 of 2009.

At that time, members of the Finance Committee submitted 564 amendments, 135 amendments were considered, 79 roll call votes taken, 41 amendments were adopted. Then the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee approved the Affordable Care Act by 13-10 after a month-long debate. 500 amendments were considered, more than 160 Republican amendments were accepted.

And then it came to the floor of the Senate, and the Affordable Care Act was on the floor for 25 straight days, including weekends between Thanksgiving and Christmas of 2009. 506 amendments were filed, 228 of which were Republican. 34 roll call votes were held. Most roll call votes resulted in party-line votes, including a motion which I had to commit the bill to the Finance Committee for a rewrite.

Not true, the subject of national health care was debated for months and years. The actual ACA bill had zero debate, no open forums, no floor debate in either house, no public readings, no postings on c-span (as obama promised). It was written in a sealed room and passed by dems only. In order to get by the 60 vote senate requirement they used reconciliation provisions that had never before been allowed for something of this magnitude.

It was terrible legislation passed in a corrupt way. Deal with that reality.

So you're just basically covering your ears and saying nya nya nyah!!!

AGAIN:from Greenbeards link:

At that time, members of the Finance Committee submitted 564 amendments, 135 amendments were considered, 79 roll call votes taken, 41 amendments were adopted. Then the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee approved the Affordable Care Act by 13-10 after a month-long debate. 500 amendments were considered, more than 160 Republican amendments were accepted.

And then it came to the floor of the Senate, and the Affordable Care Act was on the floor for 25 straight days, including weekends between Thanksgiving and Christmas of 2009. 506 amendments were filed, 228 of which were Republican. 34 roll call votes were held. Most roll call votes resulted in party-line votes, including a motion which I had to commit the bill to the Finance Committee for a rewrite.

I don't know who greenbeards is, but what he/she/it said is not what actually happened. But you libs live in fantasy land so I guess you will continue to buy the fraud that has been rammed up our collective asses.

he seems to know A LOT more about the PPACA than you do. I have yet to see you supply one single scintilla of a source to back up your partisan blathering

 

[Dot Com]

total bullshit. the so-called minimum standards require a 65 year old woman and a single male to pay for maternity care.

A 65-year-old would be on Medicare.

And if you're unclear on the role a man plays in making a baby, I won't ruin the surprise for you. But spoiler alert: a stork dropping off a baby with mom is not how procreation actually works.

redfish is so easy to catch BS'ing. All you have to do is read what he types

 

[Dot Com]

I don't know who greenbeards is, but what he/she/it said is not what actually happened. But you libs live in fantasy land so I guess you will continue to buy the fraud that has been rammed up our collective asses.

He was actually quoting McCain's description of what happened. Which happens to be correct. The Senate floor debate over the ACA went on for weeks (in Nov-Dec 2009). This is after weeks and weeks of televised committee markups and debate.

You can still watch highlights from the floor debate on C-Span. Here you go, dozens and dozens of hours of televised floor debate for your viewing pleasure:

November 20, 2009: The Senate began debate on comprehensive health care reform legislation.

November 21, 2009: The Senate continued a second day of debate on health care reform legislation. They voted 60-39 to move forward with further debate on the bill.

November 30, 2009: The Senate debated health care reform. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) warned Senators to expect daily votes on the bill, plus evening and weekend sessions. 

December 1, 2009: The Senate continued a second day of debate on H.R. 3590, the $848B plan to expand health insurance coverage. Among amendments debated today is one by Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) to ensure access to preventive screening for women. More amendments are expected today.

December 2, 2009: The Senate continued debate on Senator Barbara Mikulski’s (D-MD) amendment ensuring access to preventive services for women and Senator John McCain’s (R-AZ) Motion to Commit on Medicare. The Senators are taking up H.R. 3590, the $848B plan to expand health insurance coverage.

December 3, 2009: Senate debate continues on H.R. 3590, the $848B plan to expand health insurance coverage. Senators will begin voting on amendments submitted by Senator Barbara Mikulski (D-MD), Senator Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) and Senator John McCain (R-AZ) around 11:45am ET. Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE) is expected to introduce an amendment restricting abortion funding. Senator McCain’s (R-AZ) motion to send the health care bill back to the Finance Committee was defeated 42 - 58.

December 4, 2009: The Senate proceeded with debate on amendments to H.R. 3590, the health care bill. Yesterday, the Senate passed an amendment providing preventive health services for women and another guaranteeing Medicare benefits. Debate on the bill continued over the weekend. 

December 5, 2009: Senate proceeded with debate on amendments to health care legislation. Two amendments considered included a proposal from Senator Lincoln on limiting executive compensation for health insurance companies. The Senate voted 41 to 53 against the motion by Senator Johanns to send the bill back to the Finance Committee to remove cuts in payments to home health agencies.

December 6, 2009: The Senate reconvened in a special weekend session. Members continued debate on amendments, including a proposal from Senator Lincoln (D-AR) on limiting executive compensation for health insurance companies, and Senator Ensign’s (R-NV) amendment regarding attorney fees.  Later, both amendments failed to pass. The amendment on attorney fees submitted by Senator Ensign (R-NV) failed by a vote of 32 - 66. Amendments require at least 60 votes to pass. Senate Majority Leader Reid (D-NV) also announced that an abortion amendment will be taken up tomorrow.

December 7, 2009: The U.S. Senate began the second week and eighth day of health care legislation. They began by considering amendments from Senators Gregg and Pryor. Senator Gregg’s bars the use of any Medicare rate increases from anything other than Medicare. Senator Pryor’s requires Health and Human Services to survey those taking part in the health insurance exchange creating the bill.

December 8, 2009: Day 9 of the Senate health care reform debate. Senators discuss an amendment, submitted by Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE), restricting the use of federal funds for abortions and Senator John McCain’s (R-AZ) motion to commit on Medicare Advantage beneficiaries. The Nelson Amendment failed on a vote of 54 to 45. The Senate also took up Senator Dorgan’s prescription drug re-importation amendment. In addition, the Senate reached an agreement on health care legislation that would no longer include a new government-run insurance program, or “public option.”

December 9, 2009: On day 10 of debate on health care reform, senators took up an amendment on drug importation and more debate on a motion to send the bill back to the Finance Committee. 

December 10, 2009: Health care debate continues.

December 12, 2009: The Senate convened, with an omnibus bill cloture vote and then continued with health care reform legislation.

December 13, 2009: In a rare Sunday session the Senate took a final vote on the $447 billion FY 2010 omnibus spending bill. After the vote, members continued to debate health care legislation. 

December 14, 2009: The Senate resumed consideration of health care legislation. Several amendments were considered, including one to allow citizens to buy prescription drugs from other countries and bring them into the U.S. Others deal with tax provisions. Senators have been waiting for the Congressional Budget Office to come up with cost estimates for a plan to replace the public option in the bill.

December 15, 2009: Senators planned to finish debate on several amendments and motions dealing with buying prescription from other countries and middle class taxes. 

December 16, 2009: The Senate held its 15th day of health care debate. Senator Bernie Sanders entered an amendment for a single-payer system by expanding Medicare to everyone. Senator Coburn requested that the over 700 pages of the Sanders Amendment be read aloud. Eventually Senator Sanders withdrew his amendment, although his right to do so was contested. Work began on Defense appropriations legislation.

December 17, 2009: Throughout the day, Senators may continue to speak on health care legislation and the Senate is expected to return to the debate after voting on the defense bill. 

December 19, 2009: The Senate voted on fiscal year 2010 defense spending and thereafter resumed debate on health care legislation. This is the 17th day of health care debate.

December 21, 2009: The Senate continued debate on health care legislation.

December 22, 2009: The Senate approved Majority Leader Reid’s Managers Amendment with a vote of 60-39.

December 23, 2009: Vote to waive Corker point of order on unfunded mandates passed by a vote of 55 - 44. The Senate is now holding a series of votes, including adoption of the Majority Leader’s substitute amendment and a vote to limit debate on the bill. 

December 24, 2009: The Senate passed the $871 billion health care bill, H.R. 3590, by a vote of 60 to 39. Senator Bunning (R-KY) was the only Senator not voting. 

None of that debate was on the actual bill that was passed by the dems in congress. There was zero debate on the actual bill that was passed.

Nice try, but you FAIL

STILL no links? Lazy or.....

 

[Dot Com]

To reiterate. Partisan, low-info, hacks are complaining because:

 

[paddymurphy]

Yep, when your deductible goes up to $3K/yr. you can no longer use the insurance you are required to buy unless you have major health issue. Normal working stiff never reach $3K/yr., all out of pocket now. CASH to DR. to get better deal. no insurance paperwork for minor crap. ahhh.........families with kids. wow.

You're describing what was a reality for many working families prior to the PPACA, which is why millions had no insurance at all.

There are people right here in this forum and the Obamacare forum who still don't understand how to choose an insurance plan that works for them. Expand that to the whole country, and you have people taking bad advice from their friends or some blog they found or simply blundering along grabbing a plan without reading the details.

That last bit amazes me. Would you buy a car or a house without reading terms before you sign? But you'll do that with your health? That makes absolutely no sense.

before ACA people with no insurance received treatment. no one in the USA was denied medical care before ACA. NO ONE!

It was a fix for a problem that did not exist and it has made everything worse in the medical field.

And who paid for that treatment?

the people who paid for insurance, just like now. Only difference is that the ones paying are paying more.

No, taxpayers paid and they paid much more then than they are paying now. There are at least ten million more people with insurance, some who get those premiums subsidized. The insurance companies now pay for the care they receive. And it is absolutely not true that people who needed medical care were not denied before. The only time a hospital is required to provide treatment is when the patient shows up in active labor or in a condition that requires immediate treatment to prevent death. A person with a treatable illness like diabetes, kidney failure, heart disease, was denied treatment until such time as their condition became life threatening.

 

[paddymurphy]

actual experience with obozocare is nothing like what they told you it would be.

Halfway Through My Obamacare Pregnancy

Another fool who believes "Obamacare is a government-run insurance company."

No, its the government running the insurance companies.

No, it's not that, either.

Thats exactly what it is. The govt is dictating what coverages can/must be offered, what premiums can be charged, who gets subsidies, and who gets it "free". Its step one to single payer socialized medicine. If you think thats good, ask a brit or a canadian.

Ask a Canadian? Someone did. They asked several thousand.

OTTAWA, Canada — In a last-ditch effort to convince Canadians that their public health care system should be privatized, Canadian Medical Association (CMA) President Robert Ouellet has promised to “pull out all the stops” during the association’s annual meeting next week. Trouble is, Ouellet’s mission to lead the change to privatization is exactly the opposite of what 86 percent of Canadians want.

A new poll conducted by the Toronto-based Nanos Research points to overwhelming support — 86.2 percent — for strengthening public health care rather than expanding for-profit services.

“With more than 8 in 10 Canadians supporting public solutions to make public health care stronger, there is compelling evidence that Canadians across all demographics would prefer a public over a for-profit health care system,” said Nik Nanos, president of Nanos Research.
New poll shows Canadians overwhelmingly support public health care | Physicians for a National Health Program

Brits? Also satisfied.
It turns out the British National Health Service (NHS) — a system free at the point of service and funded by tax money — is pretty popular, despite the frequent controversy in the tabloids (one recent Daily Mail headline, "Thousands Dying Of Thirst On NHS").

An impressive 61% of respondents said they were "satisfied" with the socialized health care system, according to a British Social Attitudes survey released today.

To give you an idea of how that stacks against the U.S. health care system, take a look at a comparative study that appeared in the Health Affairs journal earlier this year. Using patient satisfaction surveys from 11 different countries, the authors found that just 28.9% of U.S. citizens felt that their health care system "works pretty well, and only minor changes are necessary to make it work better." The figure for the United Kingdom was 61.3% — almost exactly the BSA result.

British Satisfied With NHS - Business Insider

 

[paddymurphy]

Another fool who believes "Obamacare is a government-run insurance company."

No, its the government running the insurance companies.

No, it's not that, either.

The govt is dictating what coverages can/must be offered

If you mean "the PPACA is telling insurers they can no longer cap benefits or exclude would-be applicants for preexisting conditions," you're correct.

Those are to the benefit of the patient. Yanno, Americans. Why do you hate Americans?

those are the only good provisions of the ACA law. Those two changes could have been done with a one page bill that would have received unanimous approval in both houses.

The rest of the 2000 pages made everything worse.

Those two provisions could not have happened without comprehensive reform.

 

[paddymurphy]

those are the only good provisions of the ACA law. Those two changes could have been done with a one page bill that would have received unanimous approval in both houses.

The rest of the 2000 pages made everything worse.

(A) It's 906 pages
(B) Can you think of any bill enacted into law that's only one page? I'd love to see it
(C) "Approved by both houses"? No. It was the constant demands of the GOP that pecked at this thing constantly in an effort to kill it. Even after it was passed they tried to kill it 50+ times. I'd welcome you to convince me they'd have approved any health reform of any kind (I mean, this one was built on Romneycare) as long as Obama was in office

Please make your case.

It was written by dem staffers in a sealed room, it was passed by dems only using reconciliation which had never been used before for something so significant, the vote was forced before anyone had a chance to read it, the public was not allowed to know what it contained before the vote. It was democrat corruption at its worst.

before the vote, no floor discussion was allowed, no GOP amendments were allowed to be brought to the floor. It was terrible legislation passed in the worst possible way.

Romneycare applied to one state where only 3% of the people were uninsured. it is not a valid comparison and you fricken well know it.

Completely and utterly false.

President Obama Not Only Used Republican Ideas, He Used Republican Bills To Create Obamacare
For his signature piece of legislation, Obamacare, President Obama took whole sections from other pieces of legislation. Not only legislation, but according to a study released last September, he used whole sections of legislation proposed by the Republican Party.

Before anyone gets shocked, realize that it is common on Capital Hill for passages of failed bills to be recycled into newer bills over the years.When the study went over the American Care Act, also known as Obamacare, the study found that a sizable portion was written by Republicans.
GOP Did Contribute To Obamacare, Study Finds – Turns Out They Wrote A Large Portion

 

[paddymurphy]

Nope, its fact. before obozocare no one in the USA was denied medical care.

Not sure what this new entity is you're talking about, but I'd like to see you prove that prior to the PPACA no one in the U.S. was denied medical care.

Its not my job to prove a negative. The burden of proof is on you.

Because Fox Asked, Here Are Examples Of People Who Were Denied Health Care

 

[paddymurphy]

Nope, its fact. before obozocare no one in the USA was denied medical care.

Not sure what this new entity is you're talking about, but I'd like to see you prove that prior to the PPACA no one in the U.S. was denied medical care.

Hospitals could not turn anyone away before ACA. Yeah, they had to use the ER rather than a doctors office. BFD, when you get something free it may be a little inconvenient.

Granted. But patients were denied coverage for preexisting conditions, and insurers placed caps on coverage for chronic and/or expensive conditions.

"Oh, you have cancer? Treatment will cost $100,000? Sucks to be you."

being denied insurance is not being denied treatment. MD Anderson treats cancer patients whether they have insurance or not, so does Ochsner, Cleveland clinic, and Mayo clinic, Shriners, St.Jude, etc. Sure, they try to collect, but they realize that you can't get blood from a turnip and they don't take people to court.

You are parroting a false narrative.

Being denied insurance results in being denied healthcare.

 

[paddymurphy]

No, it's not that, either.

The govt is dictating what coverages can/must be offered

If you mean "the PPACA is telling insurers they can no longer cap benefits or exclude would-be applicants for preexisting conditions," you're correct.

Those are to the benefit of the patient. Yanno, Americans. Why do you hate Americans?

those are the only good provisions of the ACA law. Those two changes could have been done with a one page bill that would have received unanimous approval in both houses.

The rest of the 2000 pages made everything worse.

how would you know? anecdotal evidence? Puhleeease.

premiums are higher, deductibles are higher, people are forced to buy coverage that they don't want or need. Its been in the news for years, do you live under a rock?

Premiums are higher, but they have gone up at a slower rate than before the law. Deductibles are higher. That is one the main factors for slowing the growth of health care cost. The Republicans have long argued that if people had to pay for their own healthcare, they would make more economical decisions, which would slow the growth of cost. They were right. Why do you oppose people actually having to pay something towards their healthcare? Why should they not have to share in the expense of their health care?

 

[paddymurphy]

the people who paid for insurance, just like now. Only difference is that the ones paying are paying more.

Myth.

Nope, its fact. before obozocare no one in the USA was denied medical care. NO ONE. even those here illegally. After obozocare everyone that is paying for insurance is paying more, and those getting it free are still getting it free.

ACA was a fix for a problem that did not exist. It was nothing but a major government takeover of a large part of the american economy.

link? kthanks

link to what? do you have proof that anyone in the USA was denied medical care before obozocare? Note, having to go to the ER or a free clinic is not being denied care, having to apply for charitible financial help after treatment is not being denied care.

You don't get charitable care if you are not extremely poor. The majority of people helped by the ACA would not have qualified for charity care or free clinics. They were lower middle class, working families whose jobs did not include healthcare and who could not afford to pay for health insurance.