Like obamacare? read this

[Arianrhod]

actual experience with obozocare is nothing like what they told you it would be.

Halfway Through My Obamacare Pregnancy

Another fool who believes "Obamacare is a government-run insurance company."

No, its the government running the insurance companies.

No, it's not that, either.

The govt is dictating what coverages can/must be offered

If you mean "the PPACA is telling insurers they can no longer cap benefits or exclude would-be applicants for preexisting conditions," you're correct.

Those are to the benefit of the patient. Yanno, Americans. Why do you hate Americans?

 

[Arianrhod]

the people who paid for insurance, just like now. Only difference is that the ones paying are paying more.

Myth.

 

[Redfish]

actual experience with obozocare is nothing like what they told you it would be.

Halfway Through My Obamacare Pregnancy

Another fool who believes "Obamacare is a government-run insurance company."

No, its the government running the insurance companies.

No, it's not that, either.

The govt is dictating what coverages can/must be offered

If you mean "the PPACA is telling insurers they can no longer cap benefits or exclude would-be applicants for preexisting conditions," you're correct.

Those are to the benefit of the patient. Yanno, Americans. Why do you hate Americans?

those are the only good provisions of the ACA law. Those two changes could have been done with a one page bill that would have received unanimous approval in both houses.

The rest of the 2000 pages made everything worse.

 

[Redfish]

the people who paid for insurance, just like now. Only difference is that the ones paying are paying more.

Myth.

Nope, its fact. before obozocare no one in the USA was denied medical care. NO ONE. even those here illegally. After obozocare everyone that is paying for insurance is paying more, and those getting it free are still getting it free.

ACA was a fix for a problem that did not exist. It was nothing but a major government takeover of a large part of the american economy.

 

[Arianrhod]

those are the only good provisions of the ACA law. Those two changes could have been done with a one page bill that would have received unanimous approval in both houses.

The rest of the 2000 pages made everything worse.

(A) It's 906 pages
(B) Can you think of any bill enacted into law that's only one page? I'd love to see it
(C) "Approved by both houses"? No. It was the constant demands of the GOP that pecked at this thing constantly in an effort to kill it. Even after it was passed they tried to kill it 50+ times. I'd welcome you to convince me they'd have approved any health reform of any kind (I mean, this one was built on Romneycare) as long as Obama was in office

Please make your case.

 

[Arianrhod]

Nope, its fact. before obozocare no one in the USA was denied medical care.

Not sure what this new entity is you're talking about, but I'd like to see you prove that prior to the PPACA no one in the U.S. was denied medical care.

 

[Redfish]

those are the only good provisions of the ACA law. Those two changes could have been done with a one page bill that would have received unanimous approval in both houses.

The rest of the 2000 pages made everything worse.

(A) It's 906 pages
(B) Can you think of any bill enacted into law that's only one page? I'd love to see it
(C) "Approved by both houses"? No. It was the constant demands of the GOP that pecked at this thing constantly in an effort to kill it. Even after it was passed they tried to kill it 50+ times. I'd welcome you to convince me they'd have approved any health reform of any kind (I mean, this one was built on Romneycare) as long as Obama was in office

Please make your case.

It was written by dem staffers in a sealed room, it was passed by dems only using reconciliation which had never been used before for something so significant, the vote was forced before anyone had a chance to read it, the public was not allowed to know what it contained before the vote. It was democrat corruption at its worst.

before the vote, no floor discussion was allowed, no GOP amendments were allowed to be brought to the floor. It was terrible legislation passed in the worst possible way.

Romneycare applied to one state where only 3% of the people were uninsured. it is not a valid comparison and you fricken well know it.

 

[Redfish]

Nope, its fact. before obozocare no one in the USA was denied medical care.

Not sure what this new entity is you're talking about, but I'd like to see you prove that prior to the PPACA no one in the U.S. was denied medical care.

Its not my job to prove a negative. The burden of proof is on you.

 

[Redfish]

Nope, its fact. before obozocare no one in the USA was denied medical care.

Not sure what this new entity is you're talking about, but I'd like to see you prove that prior to the PPACA no one in the U.S. was denied medical care.

Hospitals could not turn anyone away before ACA. Yeah, they had to use the ER rather than a doctors office. BFD, when you get something free it may be a little inconvenient.

 

[Arianrhod]

Nope, its fact. before obozocare no one in the USA was denied medical care.

Not sure what this new entity is you're talking about, but I'd like to see you prove that prior to the PPACA no one in the U.S. was denied medical care.

Hospitals could not turn anyone away before ACA. Yeah, they had to use the ER rather than a doctors office. BFD, when you get something free it may be a little inconvenient.

Granted. But patients were denied coverage for preexisting conditions, and insurers placed caps on coverage for chronic and/or expensive conditions.

"Oh, you have cancer? Treatment will cost $100,000? Sucks to be you."

 

[Greenbeard]

It was written by dem staffers in a sealed room, it was passed by dems only using reconciliation which had never been used before for something so significant, the vote was forced before anyone had a chance to read it, the public was not allowed to know what it contained before the vote. It was democrat corruption at its worst.

before the vote, no floor discussion was allowed, no GOP amendments were allowed to be brought to the floor. It was terrible legislation passed in the worst possible way.

This is absurd revisionist history.

The provisions of that legislation were debated publicly for nine months--Congressional town halls, Presidential town halls, TV, newspapers, the internet, you name it. This was the topic of discussion nationally for the entire second half of 2009 and and the first quarter of 2010. It was by far the most publicly scrutinized legislation in my lifetime. Did you somehow miss this enormous national discussion that enveloped the country six years ago?

And the Senate didn't pass the ACA via reconciliation (the ACA passed with a filibuster-proof 60 votes), it passed subsequent financial tweaks to the ACA using reconciliation. And that was after nearly a month of floor debate in the Senate.

Here's John McCain on the process in the Senate:

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ): I would like to make sure that my colleagues and especially those who were not here in 2009 understand that there are many of us who are opposed to Obamacare, as it's called, the Affordable Care Act, and the opposition that we mounted in 2009, it's a matter of record that, to start with, the Senate Finance Committee considered the Affordable Care Act over several weeks and approved the bill on October 13 of 2009.

At that time, members of the Finance Committee submitted 564 amendments, 135 amendments were considered, 79 roll call votes taken, 41 amendments were adopted. Then the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee approved the Affordable Care Act by 13-10 after a month-long debate. 500 amendments were considered, more than 160 Republican amendments were accepted.

And then it came to the floor of the Senate, and the Affordable Care Act was on the floor for 25 straight days, including weekends between Thanksgiving and Christmas of 2009. 506 amendments were filed, 228 of which were Republican. 34 roll call votes were held. Most roll call votes resulted in party-line votes, including a motion which I had to commit the bill to the Finance Committee for a rewrite.

 

[Redfish]

Nope, its fact. before obozocare no one in the USA was denied medical care.

Not sure what this new entity is you're talking about, but I'd like to see you prove that prior to the PPACA no one in the U.S. was denied medical care.

Hospitals could not turn anyone away before ACA. Yeah, they had to use the ER rather than a doctors office. BFD, when you get something free it may be a little inconvenient.

Granted. But patients were denied coverage for preexisting conditions, and insurers placed caps on coverage for chronic and/or expensive conditions.

"Oh, you have cancer? Treatment will cost $100,000? Sucks to be you."

being denied insurance is not being denied treatment. MD Anderson treats cancer patients whether they have insurance or not, so does Ochsner, Cleveland clinic, and Mayo clinic, Shriners, St.Jude, etc. Sure, they try to collect, but they realize that you can't get blood from a turnip and they don't take people to court.

You are parroting a false narrative.

 

[Redfish]

It was written by dem staffers in a sealed room, it was passed by dems only using reconciliation which had never been used before for something so significant, the vote was forced before anyone had a chance to read it, the public was not allowed to know what it contained before the vote. It was democrat corruption at its worst.

before the vote, no floor discussion was allowed, no GOP amendments were allowed to be brought to the floor. It was terrible legislation passed in the worst possible way.

This is absurd revisionist history.

The provisions of that legislation were debated publicly for nine months--Congressional town halls, Presidential town halls, TV, newspapers, the internet, you name it. This was the topic of discussion nationally for the entire second half of 2009 and and the first quarter of 2010. It was by far the most publicly scrutinized legislation in my lifetime. Did you somehow miss this enormous national discussion that enveloped the country six years ago?

And the Senate didn't pass the ACA via reconciliation (the ACA passed with a filibuster-proof 60 votes), it passed subsequent financial tweaks to the ACA using reconciliation. And that was after nearly a month of floor debate in the Senate.

Here's John McCain on the process in the Senate:

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ): I would like to make sure that my colleagues and especially those who were not here in 2009 understand that there are many of us who are opposed to Obamacare, as it's called, the Affordable Care Act, and the opposition that we mounted in 2009, it's a matter of record that, to start with, the Senate Finance Committee considered the Affordable Care Act over several weeks and approved the bill on October 13 of 2009.

At that time, members of the Finance Committee submitted 564 amendments, 135 amendments were considered, 79 roll call votes taken, 41 amendments were adopted. Then the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee approved the Affordable Care Act by 13-10 after a month-long debate. 500 amendments were considered, more than 160 Republican amendments were accepted.

And then it came to the floor of the Senate, and the Affordable Care Act was on the floor for 25 straight days, including weekends between Thanksgiving and Christmas of 2009. 506 amendments were filed, 228 of which were Republican. 34 roll call votes were held. Most roll call votes resulted in party-line votes, including a motion which I had to commit the bill to the Finance Committee for a rewrite.

Not true, the subject of national health care was debated for months and years. The actual ACA bill had zero debate, no open forums, no floor debate in either house, no public readings, no postings on c-span (as obama promised). It was written in a sealed room and passed by dems only. In order to get by the 60 vote senate requirement they used reconciliation provisions that had never before been allowed for something of this magnitude.

It was terrible legislation passed in a corrupt way. Deal with that reality.

 

[Dot Com]

Another fool who believes "Obamacare is a government-run insurance company."

No, its the government running the insurance companies.

No, it's not that, either.

The govt is dictating what coverages can/must be offered

If you mean "the PPACA is telling insurers they can no longer cap benefits or exclude would-be applicants for preexisting conditions," you're correct.

Those are to the benefit of the patient. Yanno, Americans. Why do you hate Americans?

those are the only good provisions of the ACA law. Those two changes could have been done with a one page bill that would have received unanimous approval in both houses.

The rest of the 2000 pages made everything worse.

how would you know? anecdotal evidence? Puhleeease.

 

[Dot Com]

the people who paid for insurance, just like now. Only difference is that the ones paying are paying more.

Myth.

Nope, its fact. before obozocare no one in the USA was denied medical care. NO ONE. even those here illegally. After obozocare everyone that is paying for insurance is paying more, and those getting it free are still getting it free.

ACA was a fix for a problem that did not exist. It was nothing but a major government takeover of a large part of the american economy.

link? kthanks

 

[Redfish]

No, its the government running the insurance companies.

No, it's not that, either.

The govt is dictating what coverages can/must be offered

If you mean "the PPACA is telling insurers they can no longer cap benefits or exclude would-be applicants for preexisting conditions," you're correct.

Those are to the benefit of the patient. Yanno, Americans. Why do you hate Americans?

those are the only good provisions of the ACA law. Those two changes could have been done with a one page bill that would have received unanimous approval in both houses.

The rest of the 2000 pages made everything worse.

how would you know? anecdotal evidence? Puhleeease.

premiums are higher, deductibles are higher, people are forced to buy coverage that they don't want or need. Its been in the news for years, do you live under a rock?

 

[Redfish]

the people who paid for insurance, just like now. Only difference is that the ones paying are paying more.

Myth.

Nope, its fact. before obozocare no one in the USA was denied medical care. NO ONE. even those here illegally. After obozocare everyone that is paying for insurance is paying more, and those getting it free are still getting it free.

ACA was a fix for a problem that did not exist. It was nothing but a major government takeover of a large part of the american economy.

link? kthanks

link to what? do you have proof that anyone in the USA was denied medical care before obozocare? Note, having to go to the ER or a free clinic is not being denied care, having to apply for charitible financial help after treatment is not being denied care.

 

[Dot Com]

No, it's not that, either.

The govt is dictating what coverages can/must be offered

If you mean "the PPACA is telling insurers they can no longer cap benefits or exclude would-be applicants for preexisting conditions," you're correct.

Those are to the benefit of the patient. Yanno, Americans. Why do you hate Americans?

those are the only good provisions of the ACA law. Those two changes could have been done with a one page bill that would have received unanimous approval in both houses.

The rest of the 2000 pages made everything worse.

how would you know? anecdotal evidence? Puhleeease.

premiums are higher, deductibles are higher, people are forced to buy coverage that they don't want or need. Its been in the news for years, do you live under a rock?

IOW's - you miss the insurance that was there, that is, until you actually needed it?

 

[Arianrhod]

Nope, its fact. before obozocare no one in the USA was denied medical care.

Not sure what this new entity is you're talking about, but I'd like to see you prove that prior to the PPACA no one in the U.S. was denied medical care.

Hospitals could not turn anyone away before ACA. Yeah, they had to use the ER rather than a doctors office. BFD, when you get something free it may be a little inconvenient.

Granted. But patients were denied coverage for preexisting conditions, and insurers placed caps on coverage for chronic and/or expensive conditions.

"Oh, you have cancer? Treatment will cost $100,000? Sucks to be you."

being denied insurance is not being denied treatment. MD Anderson treats cancer patients whether they have insurance or not, so does Ochsner, Cleveland clinic, and Mayo clinic, Shriners, St.Jude, etc. Sure, they try to collect, but they realize that you can't get blood from a turnip and they don't take people to court.

You are parroting a false narrative.

So your solution is "defraud hospitals." Gotcha.

 

[Dot Com]

It was written by dem staffers in a sealed room, it was passed by dems only using reconciliation which had never been used before for something so significant, the vote was forced before anyone had a chance to read it, the public was not allowed to know what it contained before the vote. It was democrat corruption at its worst.

before the vote, no floor discussion was allowed, no GOP amendments were allowed to be brought to the floor. It was terrible legislation passed in the worst possible way.

This is absurd revisionist history.

The provisions of that legislation were debated publicly for nine months--Congressional town halls, Presidential town halls, TV, newspapers, the internet, you name it. This was the topic of discussion nationally for the entire second half of 2009 and and the first quarter of 2010. It was by far the most publicly scrutinized legislation in my lifetime. Did you somehow miss this enormous national discussion that enveloped the country six years ago?

And the Senate didn't pass the ACA via reconciliation (the ACA passed with a filibuster-proof 60 votes), it passed subsequent financial tweaks to the ACA using reconciliation. And that was after nearly a month of floor debate in the Senate.

Here's John McCain on the process in the Senate:

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ): I would like to make sure that my colleagues and especially those who were not here in 2009 understand that there are many of us who are opposed to Obamacare, as it's called, the Affordable Care Act, and the opposition that we mounted in 2009, it's a matter of record that, to start with, the Senate Finance Committee considered the Affordable Care Act over several weeks and approved the bill on October 13 of 2009.

At that time, members of the Finance Committee submitted 564 amendments, 135 amendments were considered, 79 roll call votes taken, 41 amendments were adopted. Then the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee approved the Affordable Care Act by 13-10 after a month-long debate. 500 amendments were considered, more than 160 Republican amendments were accepted.

And then it came to the floor of the Senate, and the Affordable Care Act was on the floor for 25 straight days, including weekends between Thanksgiving and Christmas of 2009. 506 amendments were filed, 228 of which were Republican. 34 roll call votes were held. Most roll call votes resulted in party-line votes, including a motion which I had to commit the bill to the Finance Committee for a rewrite.

Not true, the subject of national health care was debated for months and years. The actual ACA bill had zero debate, no open forums, no floor debate in either house, no public readings, no postings on c-span (as obama promised). It was written in a sealed room and passed by dems only. In order to get by the 60 vote senate requirement they used reconciliation provisions that had never before been allowed for something of this magnitude.

It was terrible legislation passed in a corrupt way. Deal with that reality.

So you're just basically covering your ears and saying nya nya nyah!!!

AGAIN:from Greenbeards link:

At that time, members of the Finance Committee submitted 564 amendments, 135 amendments were considered, 79 roll call votes taken, 41 amendments were adopted. Then the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee approved the Affordable Care Act by 13-10 after a month-long debate. 500 amendments were considered, more than 160 Republican amendments were accepted.

And then it came to the floor of the Senate, and the Affordable Care Act was on the floor for 25 straight days, including weekends between Thanksgiving and Christmas of 2009. 506 amendments were filed, 228 of which were Republican. 34 roll call votes were held. Most roll call votes resulted in party-line votes, including a motion which I had to commit the bill to the Finance Committee for a rewrite.