Lies, Fallacies, and Frauds....

[PoliticalChic]

....otherwise known as Liberalism.

1. In my local newspaper, Courier Life, one letter to the editor described Liberalism in microcosm:

"McBots
To the editor,

All across the region I am noticing that McDonald’s is busy improving their hamburger joints, not for better aesthetics or customer service, but a direct response to the mandated $15 minimum wage.

The restaurant being rebuilt on Flatbush Avenue, near the Ryder Post Office is a prime example.

My grandsons and I have visited several of these stores to see newly installed electronic-ordering kiosks where one doesn’t order food with a human, but through a video screen.

We are told it is for better service, though it has been revealed that these new kiosks enable the company to substantially reduce staffing, thus improving their bottom line.

Well done (and not the burgers) to federal, state, and city legislators who through their concern to boost wages to aid minority workers have now hurt the very people in the community by eliminating their jobs."
Sho-bad! Blow horn only on holy days, sez reader


How many times must the same lesson be taught????


2. Federal authorities, rarely having any business experience or acumen impose feel-good regulations that do the very opposite of what they promise. Here's one admitting same:

"In 1988, I invested most of the earnings from this lecture circuit acquiring the leasehold on Connecticut’s Stratford Inn. … In retrospect, I wish I had known more about the hazards and difficulties of such a business, especially during a recession of the kind that hit New England just as I was acquiring the inn’s 43-year leasehold. I also wish that during the years I was in public office, I had had this firsthand experience about the difficulties business people face every day. That knowledge would have made me a better U.S. senator and a more understanding presidential contender."
George McGovern
How To Create Jobs, By George McGovern





a. Joe Biden: ‘I’ve Never Been Gainfully Employed In My Life’ Joe Biden: ‘I’ve Never Been Gainfully Employed In My Life’ - Breitbart




3. Minimum Wage laws....walter e. williams

a. While legislative bodies have the power to order wage increases, they have not as of yet found a way to order commensurate increases in worker productivity that make the worker’s output worth the higher wage.

b. Further, while Congress can legislate the wage at which labor transactions occur, it cannot require that the transaction actually be made, and the worker hired.




Neither Liberals nor minimum wage laws should ever be allowed to impede economic prosperity.

 

[Moonglow]

You and patriot are using the same sources and attacks leads,,,,you two are paid posters and need to coordinate a little better...

 

[DGS49]

Liberals understand that if you increase the price of cigarettes, (a) fewer people will smoke them and (b) those who do smoke will smoke fewer of them, and (c) people will begin to seek out alternatives to cigarettes, but when you point out that the same principles apply to wages...

...duh.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You and patriot are using the same sources and attacks leads,,,,you two are paid posters and need to coordinate a little better...

And now the poster child for "MustShieldLiberals.com" checks in!!!!

Good to see you this morn....and even better, good to keep you busy.

So....it also seems you are now also employed by "Union of Those Unable to Focus Their Thoughts."

You are a busy boy!


1. I'm not paid by any source other than my own integrity....and, being immensely wealthy, I would require no such emolument to post.

2. I coordinate my posts with no other posters.

3. Having revealed those two glaring errors in your post....let me go on to point out that you have neither referred to anything in the OP.....
....nor, if you did, would you be able to deny any.



As usual your posts evidence more smoke and mirrors than a fire in a brothel.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Liberals understand that if you increase the price of cigarettes, (a) fewer people will smoke them and (b) those who do smoke will smoke fewer of them, and (c) people will begin to seek out alternatives to cigarettes, but when you point out that the same principles apply to wages...

...duh.

Yes, indeed, DGS....
....hence the thread title...
Lies, Fallacies, and Frauds....

 

[Mad Scientist]

I read anything about George McGovern because my grandfather and he flew a mission together over Germany in WWII. I didn't know he ran an Inn that failed. Being of the WWII generation that must have killed him a little inside.

While WWII era Liberals learned that an entire country, in fact multiple countries could be bombed and shot into submission. They thought entire economies could be brought to heel as well using not bombers, but Omnibus Spending Bills that ultimately had the same effect of devastation and surrender.

 

[SAYIT]

....otherwise known as Liberalism.

1. In my local newspaper, Courier Life, one letter to the editor described Liberalism in microcosm:

"McBots
To the editor,

All across the region I am noticing that McDonald’s is busy improving their hamburger joints, not for better aesthetics or customer service, but a direct response to the mandated $15 minimum wage.

The restaurant being rebuilt on Flatbush Avenue, near the Ryder Post Office is a prime example.

My grandsons and I have visited several of these stores to see newly installed electronic-ordering kiosks where one doesn’t order food with a human, but through a video screen.

We are told it is for better service, though it has been revealed that these new kiosks enable the company to substantially reduce staffing, thus improving their bottom line.

Well done (and not the burgers) to federal, state, and city legislators who through their concern to boost wages to aid minority workers have now hurt the very people in the community by eliminating their jobs."

That is the law of unforeseen (or at least unintended) consequences at work. During a recent visit to a chain restaurant I found a combination kiosk/video game on every table. One could order and pay the old-fashioned way or do it all themselves using the kiosk. When I mentioned to the server this may be the end of her job she shrugged and said, "I know."

...
2. Federal authorities, rarely having any business experience or acumen impose feel-good regulations that do the very opposite of what they promise. Here's one admitting same:

"In 1988, I invested most of the earnings from this lecture circuit acquiring the leasehold on Connecticut’s Stratford Inn. … In retrospect, I wish I had known more about the hazards and difficulties of such a business, especially during a recession of the kind that hit New England just as I was acquiring the inn’s 43-year leasehold. I also wish that during the years I was in public office, I had had this firsthand experience about the difficulties business people face every day. That knowledge would have made me a better U.S. senator and a more understanding presidential contender."
George McGovern
How To Create Jobs, By George McGovern

Most entrepreneurs (and many hourly workers) work 50-60 hour weeks as a matter of course and choice. It is a way to enhance the quality of one's life and that of one's family and community. Somehow our elected officials - many without biz experience or knowledge - have become convinced that working part-time at McD's should pay a "living wage" (whatever that is). Like McGovern they should step into the real world from time to time.

...
3. Minimum Wage laws....walter e. williams

a. While legislative bodies have the power to order wage increases, they have not as of yet found a way to order commensurate increases in worker productivity that make the worker’s output worth the higher wage.

b. Further, while Congress can legislate the wage at which labor transactions occur, it cannot require that the transaction actually be made, and the worker hired.


Neither Liberals nor minimum wage laws should ever be allowed to impede economic prosperity.

But they do because it makes a certain segment of our society feel good about themselves.

Our federal gov't has no biz meddling in our labor market. States and cities can (at their own risk) as employers then have the option of moving to more biz friendly American climes. We are seeing the tip of that iceberg as certain west coast cities and states have legislated higher wages. The impact of their largesse (with other people's money, of course) is just starting to trickle in. Expect a flood.

 

[Slade3200]

Do you really think McDs is installing kiosks because of minimum wage laws? Don't you think it is something they would do anyways, like most businesses do... upgrade there tech and systems as they advance in our world?

Also, you do realize that many states are raising their minimum wage to the $10-15 an hour based on cost of living, it's not a federal law as of yet?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Do you really think McDs is installing kiosks because of minimum wage laws? Don't you think it is something they would do anyways, like most businesses do... upgrade there tech and systems as they advance in our world?

Also, you do realize that many states are raising their minimum wage to the $10-15 an hour based on cost of living, it's not a federal law as of yet?

Gads, you're a dunce.
I saw the work and expense required to install the equipment referenced by the letter writer in the OP, in the local McD's....
...but you actually profess that they did it to keep up with the times/technology.

You understand business as well as every Democrat.




BTW.....

See if you can find any error in the following....and when you can't....see what it teaches you:

"FDR talked Congress into creating Social Security in 1935 and imposing the nation’s first comprehensive minimum-wage law in 1938. While to this day he gets a great deal of credit for these two measures from the general public, many economists have a different perspective. The minimum-wage law prices many of the inexperienced, the young, the unskilled, and the disadvantaged out of the labor market. (For example, the minimum-wage provisions passed as part of another act in 1933 threw an estimated 500,000 blacks out of work.)"

http://fee.org/freeman/great-myths-of-the-great-depression/

 

[Slade3200]

Do you really think McDs is installing kiosks because of minimum wage laws? Don't you think it is something they would do anyways, like most businesses do... upgrade there tech and systems as they advance in our world?

Also, you do realize that many states are raising their minimum wage to the $10-15 an hour based on cost of living, it's not a federal law as of yet?

Gads, you're a dunce.
I saw the work and expense required to install the equipment referenced by the letter writer in the OP, in the local McD's....
...but you actually profess that they did it to keep up with the times/technology.

You understand business as well as every Democrat.




BTW.....

See if you can find any error in the following....and when you can't....see what it teaches you:

"FDR talked Congress into creating Social Security in 1935 and imposing the nation’s first comprehensive minimum-wage law in 1938. While to this day he gets a great deal of credit for these two measures from the general public, many economists have a different perspective. The minimum-wage law prices many of the inexperienced, the young, the unskilled, and the disadvantaged out of the labor market. (For example, the minimum-wage provisions passed as part of another act in 1933 threw an estimated 500,000 blacks out of work.)"

http://fee.org/freeman/great-myths-of-the-great-depression/

You call me a dunce and say I don't understand business but offer no counter arguement. I've started/owned 5 businesses and consulted for many others. I understand that industry leaders like McDs make advancements with systems and tech which often carve the path for the rest of the industry. They do this not because they are forced by labor laws or wage considerations, they do this because it increases efficiency and that is part of the responsibility of each companies managers.

I don't disagree with the content of your next passage and think it is fair to consider the young and unskilled in a wage law. This can be done by putting an age clause, 18 and older, as well as initiatives/incentives for training programs so that companies can help the unskilled become skilled. Bottom line is nobody should be working full time and not be able to afford a basic standard of life. When people are working full time and multiple jobs and still in poverty there is a problem.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I saw the title and thought the OP might be doing a retrospective of her posting here.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Do you really think McDs is installing kiosks because of minimum wage laws? Don't you think it is something they would do anyways, like most businesses do... upgrade there tech and systems as they advance in our world?

Also, you do realize that many states are raising their minimum wage to the $10-15 an hour based on cost of living, it's not a federal law as of yet?

Gads, you're a dunce.
I saw the work and expense required to install the equipment referenced by the letter writer in the OP, in the local McD's....
...but you actually profess that they did it to keep up with the times/technology.

You understand business as well as every Democrat.




BTW.....

See if you can find any error in the following....and when you can't....see what it teaches you:

"FDR talked Congress into creating Social Security in 1935 and imposing the nation’s first comprehensive minimum-wage law in 1938. While to this day he gets a great deal of credit for these two measures from the general public, many economists have a different perspective. The minimum-wage law prices many of the inexperienced, the young, the unskilled, and the disadvantaged out of the labor market. (For example, the minimum-wage provisions passed as part of another act in 1933 threw an estimated 500,000 blacks out of work.)"

http://fee.org/freeman/great-myths-of-the-great-depression/

You call me a dunce and say I don't understand business but offer no counter arguement. I've started/owned 5 businesses and consulted for many others. I understand that industry leaders like McDs make advancements with systems and tech which often carve the path for the rest of the industry. They do this not because they are forced by labor laws or wage considerations, they do this because it increases efficiency and that is part of the responsibility of each companies managers.

I don't disagree with the content of your next passage and think it is fair to consider the young and unskilled in a wage law. This can be done by putting an age clause, 18 and older, as well as initiatives/incentives for training programs so that companies can help the unskilled become skilled. Bottom line is nobody should be working full time and not be able to afford a basic standard of life. When people are working full time and multiple jobs and still in poverty there is a problem.

1. "You call me a dunce and say I don't understand business..."
Sure did.


2. "...they do this because it increases efficiency..."
Efficiency defined, herein, as profit.
Exactly what I said.

3. "I don't disagree with the content of your next passage and think it is fair to consider the young and unskilled in a wage law."
I appreciate this...and we are on the same page here.

a. "...This can be done by putting an age clause, 18 and older,..."
Excellent point...I recently read that a new such law passed in the UK.

4. "Bottom line is nobody should be working full time and not be able to afford a basic standard of life."
And here is where we part company.
If the Constitution is the law of the land....and it once was....there is no authority for protecting one individual from poor choices by depriving another of the fruits of his labor.

As Thomas Jefferson once wrote regarding the "general Welfare" clause:

To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his father has acquired too much, in order to spare to others who (or whose fathers) have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, "to guarantee to everyone a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."
http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/taxes/ustax.shtml
http://www.founding.com/founders_library/pageID.2190/default.asp


America was designed to be far different from the Bolshevik empire.


5. "...poverty..."
The fault of Liberal governance.
From Peter Ferrara, “America’s Ticking Bankruptcy Bomb,” chapter five:

1. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Such should be the epitaph of Liberalism.
2. ‘Welfare’ as a wholly owned subsidiary of the government, and its main result is the incentivizing of a disrespect for oneself, and for the entity that provides the welfare. As more folks in a poor neighborhood languish with little or no work, entire local culture begins to change: daily work is no longer the expected social norm. Extended periods of hanging around the neighborhood, neither working nor going to school becoming more and more socially acceptable.
   1. Since productive activity not making any economic sense because of the work disincentives of the welfare plantation, other kinds of activities proliferate: drug and alcohol abuse, crime, recreational sex, illegitimacy, and family breakup are the new social norms, as does the culture of violence.

I'd be remiss if I don't point out that your post is dfferent from that of most with your perspective, as you made a cogent argument....with a valid suggestion for improving society.

I'm always prepared to support my argument....and you did too.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Liberals understand that if you increase the price of cigarettes, (a) fewer people will smoke them and (b) those who do smoke will smoke fewer of them, and (c) people will begin to seek out alternatives to cigarettes, but when you point out that the same principles apply to wages...

...duh.

I just came across this article...and have to give you credit for propounding the view first....
"....to needle those who "do not have a strong need for intellectual consistency."

....two ballot initiatives facing voters in Washington state this Election Day. Initiative 732 would impose a statewide tax of $15 per ton on carbon dioxide in order to reduce greenhouse emissions. Initiative 1433 would increase the state's minimum wage to $13.50 an hour in order to guarantee a "living wage" to all low-skilled workers.

....progressive Washington voters will doubtless support both ballot questions, oblivious to the contradiction in doing so. After all, if you recognize that artificially hiking the cost of using fossil fuels will give emitters an incentive to shrink their carbon footprint, then you should recognize that artificially hiking the cost of hiring low-skilled workers will give employers an incentive to shrink their workforce.

Force up the cost of employing low-skilled workers, and fewer low-skilled workers will be hired."
Jeff Jacoby - Minimum-Wage Laws: Good Intentions, Bad Results

 

[PoliticalChic]

"Lawmakers, journalists, and activists typically disguise the real-world impact of minimum-wage increases behind sentimental language about compassion and social justice."
Jeff Jacoby - Minimum-Wage Laws: Good Intentions, Bad Results

1. The adolescent, the Marxist, and the Liberal dream of “fairness,” brought about by the state. Silly. This would mean usurping the society decision that the skilled worker is entitled to higher pay than the unskilled. This decision is never pronounced by any authority other than the free market. It was arrived at via the interaction of human beings perfectly capable of ordering their own affairs.
2. If the Leftist is interested in a more ‘fair’ redistribution of wealth, let him vote for lower taxes, and then he can distribute his now larger share of his wealth to the lesser compensated folks. 3. Illustrative of reality is the fact that the Leftist refrains from paying above the stated price for goods and services…he wants, as everyone else does, competition between said services. David Mamet, "The Secret Knowledge," ch 32

 

[Freewill]

....otherwise known as Liberalism.

1. In my local newspaper, Courier Life, one letter to the editor described Liberalism in microcosm:

"McBots
To the editor,

All across the region I am noticing that McDonald’s is busy improving their hamburger joints, not for better aesthetics or customer service, but a direct response to the mandated $15 minimum wage.

The restaurant being rebuilt on Flatbush Avenue, near the Ryder Post Office is a prime example.

My grandsons and I have visited several of these stores to see newly installed electronic-ordering kiosks where one doesn’t order food with a human, but through a video screen.

We are told it is for better service, though it has been revealed that these new kiosks enable the company to substantially reduce staffing, thus improving their bottom line.

Well done (and not the burgers) to federal, state, and city legislators who through their concern to boost wages to aid minority workers have now hurt the very people in the community by eliminating their jobs."
Sho-bad! Blow horn only on holy days, sez reader


How many times must the same lesson be taught????


2. Federal authorities, rarely having any business experience or acumen impose feel-good regulations that do the very opposite of what they promise. Here's one admitting same:

"In 1988, I invested most of the earnings from this lecture circuit acquiring the leasehold on Connecticut’s Stratford Inn. … In retrospect, I wish I had known more about the hazards and difficulties of such a business, especially during a recession of the kind that hit New England just as I was acquiring the inn’s 43-year leasehold. I also wish that during the years I was in public office, I had had this firsthand experience about the difficulties business people face every day. That knowledge would have made me a better U.S. senator and a more understanding presidential contender."
George McGovern
How To Create Jobs, By George McGovern





a. Joe Biden: ‘I’ve Never Been Gainfully Employed In My Life’ Joe Biden: ‘I’ve Never Been Gainfully Employed In My Life’ - Breitbart




3. Minimum Wage laws....walter e. williams

a. While legislative bodies have the power to order wage increases, they have not as of yet found a way to order commensurate increases in worker productivity that make the worker’s output worth the higher wage.

b. Further, while Congress can legislate the wage at which labor transactions occur, it cannot require that the transaction actually be made, and the worker hired.




Neither Liberals nor minimum wage laws should ever be allowed to impede economic prosperity.

How does this result in a drastic reduction in staff?

 

[Slade3200]

Liberals understand that if you increase the price of cigarettes, (a) fewer people will smoke them and (b) those who do smoke will smoke fewer of them, and (c) people will begin to seek out alternatives to cigarettes, but when you point out that the same principles apply to wages...

...duh.

I just came across this article...and have to give you credit for propounding the view first....
"....to needle those who "do not have a strong need for intellectual consistency."

....two ballot initiatives facing voters in Washington state this Election Day. Initiative 732 would impose a statewide tax of $15 per ton on carbon dioxide in order to reduce greenhouse emissions. Initiative 1433 would increase the state's minimum wage to $13.50 an hour in order to guarantee a "living wage" to all low-skilled workers.

....progressive Washington voters will doubtless support both ballot questions, oblivious to the contradiction in doing so. After all, if you recognize that artificially hiking the cost of using fossil fuels will give emitters an incentive to shrink their carbon footprint, then you should recognize that artificially hiking the cost of hiring low-skilled workers will give employers an incentive to shrink their workforce.

Force up the cost of employing low-skilled workers, and fewer low-skilled workers will be hired."
Jeff Jacoby - Minimum-Wage Laws: Good Intentions, Bad Results

It is a fair point to discuss as wage costs go up, profits go down and in some cases cuts will have to be made which would in turn cost jobs. You can look at the other side and say, would cutting our wages in half allow us to put twice as many people to work?

I think the answer to either scenario is Balance. There is no use in putting everybody to work if the majority are getting paid a crap wage that doesn't pay the bills. It also isn't helpful to make labor costs crippling to businesses.

My personal opinion is that if an individual works full time (40 hours) a week, then that individual should be able to afford a decent standard of living and not be in the "poverty" level or on government assistance. We currently have people who are employeed but still on government assistance because they do not earn enough to pay the bills. I believe the minimum wage should address this issue. I'd prefer it to be up to the states to decide as each state and county is different, but if the Feds need to put in a low ball minimum, say $10 per hour, and encourage states to do $12-$15 depending on their living costs, that sounds fair to me.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"Automated restaurant opens in NYC
....never interacting with a server or cashier.
no cashiers and you order on an iPad or your phone. The meal appears in a little locker. Customers tap to open the door for their meal." Automated restaurant opens in NYC


"The company was named Restaurant Business' 2016 Tech Accelerator of the Year."
Ibid.


Now, why do you suppose that is?


Good work, Liberals.

 

[PoliticalChic]

....otherwise known as Liberalism.

1. In my local newspaper, Courier Life, one letter to the editor described Liberalism in microcosm:

"McBots
To the editor,

All across the region I am noticing that McDonald’s is busy improving their hamburger joints, not for better aesthetics or customer service, but a direct response to the mandated $15 minimum wage.

The restaurant being rebuilt on Flatbush Avenue, near the Ryder Post Office is a prime example.

My grandsons and I have visited several of these stores to see newly installed electronic-ordering kiosks where one doesn’t order food with a human, but through a video screen.

We are told it is for better service, though it has been revealed that these new kiosks enable the company to substantially reduce staffing, thus improving their bottom line.

Well done (and not the burgers) to federal, state, and city legislators who through their concern to boost wages to aid minority workers have now hurt the very people in the community by eliminating their jobs."
Sho-bad! Blow horn only on holy days, sez reader


How many times must the same lesson be taught????


2. Federal authorities, rarely having any business experience or acumen impose feel-good regulations that do the very opposite of what they promise. Here's one admitting same:

"In 1988, I invested most of the earnings from this lecture circuit acquiring the leasehold on Connecticut’s Stratford Inn. … In retrospect, I wish I had known more about the hazards and difficulties of such a business, especially during a recession of the kind that hit New England just as I was acquiring the inn’s 43-year leasehold. I also wish that during the years I was in public office, I had had this firsthand experience about the difficulties business people face every day. That knowledge would have made me a better U.S. senator and a more understanding presidential contender."
George McGovern
How To Create Jobs, By George McGovern





a. Joe Biden: ‘I’ve Never Been Gainfully Employed In My Life’ Joe Biden: ‘I’ve Never Been Gainfully Employed In My Life’ - Breitbart




3. Minimum Wage laws....walter e. williams

a. While legislative bodies have the power to order wage increases, they have not as of yet found a way to order commensurate increases in worker productivity that make the worker’s output worth the higher wage.

b. Further, while Congress can legislate the wage at which labor transactions occur, it cannot require that the transaction actually be made, and the worker hired.




Neither Liberals nor minimum wage laws should ever be allowed to impede economic prosperity.

How does this result in a drastic reduction in staff?

I assume you're asking about McD's...

No cashiers, no servers, on front desk order takers.

 

[WaitingFor2020]

You and patriot are using the same sources and attacks leads,,,,you two are paid posters and need to coordinate a little better...

Thanks, Moon. I sort of thought the same thing myself. They are always pontificating but never interacting on other threads. Such whores these two.

 

[WaitingFor2020]

I saw the title and thought the OP might be doing a retrospective of her posting here.

HIGH FIVE, NY. I was going to say the very same thing! Hehehehee