Libertarians Are The True Political Moderates

[Bfgrn]

The greatest failure of the Progressive philosophy is that it seeks to impose it's belief that it knows better than the common man what is best for that man.

The Progressive simply cannot get over the fact that the "common man" laughs at him and his delusions of self importance.

And the right wants impose what they have ALWAYS tried to impose throughout human history.

An aristocracy...

LOL, you clearly aren't paying attention the Boi King is imposing the aristocracy as you type.

Really? Who are the aristocrats?

 

[Antares]

And the right wants impose what they have ALWAYS tried to impose throughout human history.

An aristocracy...

LOL, you clearly aren't paying attention the Boi King is imposing the aristocracy as you type.

Really? Who are the aristocrats?

Anyone named Bush, Clinton, Obama.

I learned that there are THREE Branches of Government, the Judicial, the Executive and the Congressional Branches.

Obama agrees but he sees them as Me, Myself and I.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

And the right wants impose what they have ALWAYS tried to impose throughout human history.

An aristocracy...

LOL, you clearly aren't paying attention the Boi King is imposing the aristocracy as you type.

Really? Who are the aristocrats?

The Kennedys
The Rockefellers
The Heinzes
The Clintons
The Gates
George Soros
Jeff Zucker
David Geffen
Ted Turner
Warren Buffett
Oprah

 

[Bfgrn]

LOL, you clearly aren't paying attention the Boi King is imposing the aristocracy as you type.

Really? Who are the aristocrats?

The Kennedys
The Rockefellers
The Heinzes
The Clintons
The Gates
George Soros
Jeff Zucker
David Geffen
Ted Turner
Warren Buffett
Oprah

All made their money before Obama became President. But, you folks don't care about facts.

I had a flat tire today...fuckin' Obama!

 

[Antares]

Dude c'mon.

Nobody is working for you.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Really? Who are the aristocrats?

The Kennedys
The Rockefellers
The Heinzes
The Clintons
The Gates
George Soros
Jeff Zucker
David Geffen
Ted Turner
Warren Buffett
Oprah

All made their money before Obama became President. But, you folks don't care about facts.

I had a flat tire today...fuckin' Obama!

Cannot imagine being so blinded by political ideology, no matter how hard I try.

Yikes!

 

[Antares]

The Kennedys
The Rockefellers
The Heinzes
The Clintons
The Gates
George Soros
Jeff Zucker
David Geffen
Ted Turner
Warren Buffett
Oprah

All made their money before Obama became President. But, you folks don't care about facts.

I had a flat tire today...fuckin' Obama!

Cannot imagine being so blinded by political ideology, no matter how hard I try.

Yikes!

I will admit I was until until GW's 2nd term.

 

[KNB]

Well, which is it? Is Obama imposing the aristocracy as we speak, or is Obama destroying America by taking (taxing) from the rich to pay for entitlements to poor moocher illegal alien abortion whores?

 

[Antares]

Well, which is it? Is Obama imposing the aristocracy as we speak, or is Obama destroying America by taking (taxing) from the rich to pay for entitlements to poor moocher illegal alien abortion whores?

Obama is the epitome of the Aristocracy......do as he says, not as he does.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Well, which is it? Is Obama imposing the aristocracy as we speak, or is Obama destroying America by taking (taxing) from the rich to pay for entitlements to poor moocher illegal alien abortion whores?

Who says that the two are exclusive of one another?

 

[Bfgrn]

Well, which is it? Is Obama imposing the aristocracy as we speak, or is Obama destroying America by taking (taxing) from the rich to pay for entitlements to poor moocher illegal alien abortion whores?

Guess Obama is a Marxist aristocrat...

Keep in mind, these are the very same people we never heard a PEEP from about overbearing government when Bush and Cheney were trashing the Constitution, the Geneva Convention, the environment and the economy. And creating the MOTHER of bloated, overbearing and intrusive government...FATHERLAND Security...

 

[elektra]

As we moved toward an ideology driven 'free market' ONLY belief economically, and away from a mixed economy, the results have been disastrous

The more and more government controls our markets, the freer you think they are, and that freedom is what is causing our market problems.

Well, apparently libertarians are not the only ones supporting legalization of drugs around here...

It is clear to anyone who has studied the financial crisis of 2008 that the private sector’s drive for short-term profit was behind it


Low interest rates fueled an apparent boom

Asset managers sought new ways to make money

The credit rating agencies gave their blessing

Fund managers didn’t do their homework

Derivatives were unregulated

The SEC loosened capital requirements: In 2004

The federal government overrode anti-predatory state laws. In 2004


Compensation schemes encouraged gambling: Wall Street’s compensation system was—and still is—based on short-term performance, all upside and no downside




Wall Street became “creative”: The demand for higher-yielding paper led Wall Street to begin bundling mortgages. The highest yielding were subprime mortgages. This market was dominated by non-bank originators exempt from most regulations.


Private sector lenders fed the demand

Financial gadgets milked the market

Commercial banks jumped in

Derivatives exploded uncontrollably

The boom and bust went global




Lest We Forget: Why We Had A Financial Crisis - Forbes

Over valued property defaulted on, the Savings and Loan crises was the exact same thing, which Daddy Bush bailed out. Like Father like Son.

Maybe this is why there is complete silence from Bush when it comes to being critical of Obama or Clinton.

 

[Antares]

Well, which is it? Is Obama imposing the aristocracy as we speak, or is Obama destroying America by taking (taxing) from the rich to pay for entitlements to poor moocher illegal alien abortion whores?

Guess Obama is a Marxist aristocrat...

Keep in mind, these are the very same people we never heard a PEEP from about overbearing government when Bush and Cheney were trashing the Constitution, the Geneva Convention, the environment and the economy. And creating the MOTHER of bloated, overbearing and intrusive government...FATHERLAND Security...

You do realize that at the very top of every Socialist/Communist Gov is an Aristocratic Strata?

Bush and Cheney were Boy Scouts compared to these people...and yet you don't care.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No I get free markets. You don't understand that there is no such thing as a free market. Read this then we'll talk.

Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

I think we have established that Libertarians aren't the true moderates. They are extremists and anarchists. The middle class and poor ones mean well because it sounds good on paper but there is no truly free market. Government makes the rules. Without rules/referees what kind of game would it be between the rich and the poor/middle class? The middle class will be GONE my brother. Even if I was rich enough to benefit from Libertarian ways I wouldn't want society to work that way. You libertarians while you mean well are also very ignorant about the value of government until you need it. I can't tell you how many people I knew who were Republicans when Clinton was in office and when Bush sent all the jobs overseas, not only did they file for unemployment, they filed for extensions when they found that no it's not that easy to find a job in a wrecked economy. And guess what? None of them was willing to flip burgers. That wouldn't even make their car payments, the arrogant bastards. One of them went to another state and still couldn't find a job and had to come crawling back to work at his daddy's company. What a hypocrite and loser he is, just like the rest of you. You would vote for a Libertarian and then when you are broke and old you wouldn't have social security. You think your lousy 401K is going to be there? Your healthcare costs would eat all that up.

YOU don't understand reality. Don't tell me I don't understand free markets you brainwashed little shit. Think you would benefit from winner take all survival of the fittest every man for himself society? Go move on an island or to a red state at least. Separate but equal. You in Kenhicky and me in Michigan. Only thing is we got to get this Snyder bum out of office first. Michigan although it votes every 4 years for Democrats the stupid masses don't show up to midterms.

You are wrong, there are actual free markets out there, and they prove you wrong.

MYTH ALERT!

A "free market" doesn't exist. There is no such thing. All markets are constructed. Think of the stock exchange. It has rules. The WTO [World Trade Organization] has 900 pages of regulations. The bond market has all kinds of regulations and commissions to make sure those regulations carried out. Every market has rules.

I love it when idiots tell me that something is a myth when it is real.

Ever hear of black markets? The world drug market that is delivering better quaility drugs at a lower price despite years of the government trying to wipe them out? Freecycle?

I can go on, but you probably don't get the point.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

As we CLEARLY witnessed during the financial collapse "people will, all too often, serve their own interest at the expense others"

Private corporations and wealthy investors were the "people" who served their own interest. And WE THE PEOPLE were the "others".

Indeed. Which is why its foolhardy to give them coercive control over their markets.

The lenders who caused the collapse were OUTSIDE of government 'control'

More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics.


Read more here: Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis | Economics | McClatchy DC

How were those private lender outside government control? Were there absolutely no regulations that covered what they were doing?

 

[Bfgrn]

Indeed. Which is why its foolhardy to give them coercive control over their markets.

The lenders who caused the collapse were OUTSIDE of government 'control'

More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics.


Read more here: Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis | Economics | McClatchy DC

How were those private lender outside government control? Were there absolutely no regulations that covered what they were doing?

Private Wall Street Companies Caused The Financial Crisis — Not Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Or The Community Reinvestment Act

In the four years since the housing bubble burst, triggering a collapse in global financial markets whose value had been propped up through the repackaging and trading of home loans via complex financial instruments, there’s been plenty of blame to go around. The Occupy Wall Street protests have called new attention to the root causes of the crisis, and led Republicans to reiterate their claim that government-backed lenders Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were the primary villains. The facts about the subprime mortgage market prove that claim false: Private firms dominated the subprime market boom of 2004-06, and were not even subject to the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act some Republicans vilify. Thanks to decades of financial deregulation, capped by President Bush’s decision to appoint Wall Street regulators who believed their job was to help banks rather than curb banking abuses, financial giants were able to turn the mortgage market into a high-stakes casino. As investigative reporters and Congress’ Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission have all shown, it was deregulation mixed with irresponsible and potentially illegal practices by private firms on Wall Street that caused both the bubble and the collapse.

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No, Marco Rubio, government did not cause the housing crisis - The Washington Post

In his response to the State of the Union, Sen. Marco Rubio said: "This idea – that our problems were caused by a government that was too small – it’s just not true. In fact, a major cause of our recent downturn was a housing crisis created by reckless government policies."

For obvious reasons, this argument is very popular on the right, but there's precious little to back it up. The core claim can be a bit slippery, but it tends to go something like this: the existence and affordability goals of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (the GSEs) and the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) were a major reason we had a subprime-driven housing bubble and then a crash. The only problem? Pretty much all the evidence on the housing crisis shows that that's not true.

Let's go through some things we know.

1. Private markets, rather than the GSEs, created the subprime mortgage boom.

The subprime mortgage boom and the subsequent crash are very much concentrated in the private market, not the public market. Subprime is a creature of the private label securitization channel (PLS) market, instead of the Government-Sponsored Entities (GSEs, or Fannie and Freddie). The fly-by-night lending boom, slicing and dicing mortgage bonds, derivatives and CDOs, and all the other shadiness of the mortgage market in the 2000s were Wall Street creations, and they drove all those risky mortgages.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The lenders who caused the collapse were OUTSIDE of government 'control'

More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics.


Read more here: Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis | Economics | McClatchy DC

How were those private lender outside government control? Were there absolutely no regulations that covered what they were doing?

Private Wall Street Companies Caused The Financial Crisis — Not Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Or The Community Reinvestment Act

In the four years since the housing bubble burst, triggering a collapse in global financial markets whose value had been propped up through the repackaging and trading of home loans via complex financial instruments, there’s been plenty of blame to go around. The Occupy Wall Street protests have called new attention to the root causes of the crisis, and led Republicans to reiterate their claim that government-backed lenders Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were the primary villains. The facts about the subprime mortgage market prove that claim false: Private firms dominated the subprime market boom of 2004-06, and were not even subject to the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act some Republicans vilify. Thanks to decades of financial deregulation, capped by President Bush’s decision to appoint Wall Street regulators who believed their job was to help banks rather than curb banking abuses, financial giants were able to turn the mortgage market into a high-stakes casino. As investigative reporters and Congress’ Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission have all shown, it was deregulation mixed with irresponsible and potentially illegal practices by private firms on Wall Street that caused both the bubble and the collapse.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, Marco Rubio, government did not cause the housing crisis - The Washington Post

In his response to the State of the Union, Sen. Marco Rubio said: "This idea – that our problems were caused by a government that was too small – it’s just not true. In fact, a major cause of our recent downturn was a housing crisis created by reckless government policies."

For obvious reasons, this argument is very popular on the right, but there's precious little to back it up. The core claim can be a bit slippery, but it tends to go something like this: the existence and affordability goals of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (the GSEs) and the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) were a major reason we had a subprime-driven housing bubble and then a crash. The only problem? Pretty much all the evidence on the housing crisis shows that that's not true.

Let's go through some things we know.

1. Private markets, rather than the GSEs, created the subprime mortgage boom.

The subprime mortgage boom and the subsequent crash are very much concentrated in the private market, not the public market. Subprime is a creature of the private label securitization channel (PLS) market, instead of the Government-Sponsored Entities (GSEs, or Fannie and Freddie). The fly-by-night lending boom, slicing and dicing mortgage bonds, derivatives and CDOs, and all the other shadiness of the mortgage market in the 2000s were Wall Street creations, and they drove all those risky mortgages.

Facts and conservatives – forever strangers.

 

[dblack]

As we CLEARLY witnessed during the financial collapse "people will, all too often, serve their own interest at the expense others"

Private corporations and wealthy investors were the "people" who served their own interest. And WE THE PEOPLE were the "others".

Indeed. Which is why its foolhardy to give them coercive control over their markets.

The lenders who caused the collapse were OUTSIDE of government 'control'.

You're missing my point (and unwittingly supporting it). Regulatory agencies invariably come under the control of the industries they regulate. The dominant players in the industry in question use the regulatory apparatus to further their own interests, leveraging the illusion that consumers and the public are 'protected' from their shenanigans. It's become so blatant that Congress now invites them into the legislative process, overseeing the formation of these regulatory schemes from the start (witness ACA).

 

[TakeAStepBack]

The "lenders" who caused the bubble and it's inevitable burst was the federal reserve. They are a private entity without much government oversight. But they were created by government.