Libertarians Are The True Political Moderates

[thanatos144]

Libertarians want government limited to those functions which only government can do. Most of us would generally agree with police, military, civil and criminal courts, roads, management of limited resources and recognition of property rights. I am not referring to anarchists who want no government here who like calling themselves libertarians, I am referring to the masses of us who want government limited, not eliminated.

Fiscal polices. We want taxes, but we want them low, flat and for the good of the people as a whole and not used for income redistribution. The left are the extremists here not only punishing success and harming employers, but even using tax COLLECTION as a welfare program with refundable tax credits. We are moderates, taxes should be reasonable and to fund the government, not implement social policy. And spending should be within our means.

Social policies. Socons go to church (or other religious institutions) then go to government to implement morality by force. Clearly they are the extremists. Libertarians believe they should have the right to persuade people to live moral lives, they should not have the right to force their morality on them. We are, the moderates.

NeoCons. We want the military used for the defense of the United States. We don't want to be policeman to the world like the right, we also don't blame our troops for the failures of our politicians like the left. And we don't want them in everyone's back yard, like both sides do. We are moderates, protect and defend, don't use force to make other's decisions just like we don't want government making our decisions here.

Republicans and Democrats are just so deep into the question of what government can do to impose their social and fiscal wills on us, they have stopped even asking the question, should government even do that? Do we have the right to make that choice for everyone and use force to impose it on all our citizens? Libertarians are the moderates, that is the first question we ask, that is the right question to answer before proceeding any further.

What bullshit. Libertarians are not much different then liberals in the fact that they try and destroy the first amendment and force their drug culture on the rest of us.

 

[Samson]

Libertarians want government limited to those functions which only government can do. Most of us would generally agree with police, military, civil and criminal courts, roads, management of limited resources and recognition of property rights. I am not referring to anarchists who want no government here who like calling themselves libertarians, I am referring to the masses of us who want government limited, not eliminated.

Fiscal polices. We want taxes, but we want them low, flat and for the good of the people as a whole and not used for income redistribution. The left are the extremists here not only punishing success and harming employers, but even using tax COLLECTION as a welfare program with refundable tax credits. We are moderates, taxes should be reasonable and to fund the government, not implement social policy. And spending should be within our means.

Social policies. Socons go to church (or other religious institutions) then go to government to implement morality by force. Clearly they are the extremists. Libertarians believe they should have the right to persuade people to live moral lives, they should not have the right to force their morality on them. We are, the moderates.

NeoCons. We want the military used for the defense of the United States. We don't want to be policeman to the world like the right, we also don't blame our troops for the failures of our politicians like the left. And we don't want them in everyone's back yard, like both sides do. We are moderates, protect and defend, don't use force to make other's decisions just like we don't want government making our decisions here.

Republicans and Democrats are just so deep into the question of what government can do to impose their social and fiscal wills on us, they have stopped even asking the question, should government even do that? Do we have the right to make that choice for everyone and use force to impose it on all our citizens? Libertarians are the moderates, that is the first question we ask, that is the right question to answer before proceeding any further.

What bullshit. Libertarians are not much different then liberals in the fact that they try and destroy the first amendment and force their drug culture on the rest of us.

You are clearly not taking your medication.

Someone is not trying hard enough to force your lithium prescription to be refilled.

 

[g5000]

A Libertarian society would have OBJECTIVE LAWS. They would never demand that party "A" provide insurance to Party "B".

.

I heartily agree something is seriously broken when our laws have arrived at this point.

 

[thanatos144]

Libertarians want government limited to those functions which only government can do. Most of us would generally agree with police, military, civil and criminal courts, roads, management of limited resources and recognition of property rights. I am not referring to anarchists who want no government here who like calling themselves libertarians, I am referring to the masses of us who want government limited, not eliminated.

Fiscal polices. We want taxes, but we want them low, flat and for the good of the people as a whole and not used for income redistribution. The left are the extremists here not only punishing success and harming employers, but even using tax COLLECTION as a welfare program with refundable tax credits. We are moderates, taxes should be reasonable and to fund the government, not implement social policy. And spending should be within our means.

Social policies. Socons go to church (or other religious institutions) then go to government to implement morality by force. Clearly they are the extremists. Libertarians believe they should have the right to persuade people to live moral lives, they should not have the right to force their morality on them. We are, the moderates.

NeoCons. We want the military used for the defense of the United States. We don't want to be policeman to the world like the right, we also don't blame our troops for the failures of our politicians like the left. And we don't want them in everyone's back yard, like both sides do. We are moderates, protect and defend, don't use force to make other's decisions just like we don't want government making our decisions here.

Republicans and Democrats are just so deep into the question of what government can do to impose their social and fiscal wills on us, they have stopped even asking the question, should government even do that? Do we have the right to make that choice for everyone and use force to impose it on all our citizens? Libertarians are the moderates, that is the first question we ask, that is the right question to answer before proceeding any further.

What bullshit. Libertarians are not much different then liberals in the fact that they try and destroy the first amendment and force their drug culture on the rest of us.

You are clearly not taking your medication.

Someone is not trying hard enough to force your lithium prescription to be refilled.

Go away if you have nothing.

 

[Samson]

What bullshit. Libertarians are not much different then liberals in the fact that they try and destroy the first amendment and force their drug culture on the rest of us.

You are clearly not taking your medication.

Someone is not trying hard enough to force your lithium prescription to be refilled.

G9o away if you have nothing.

G9o?


Seriously, medication could help. A lot..

 

[kaz]

You are NO libertarian, and you are NOT moderate, you are right wing SCUM.

Give me an example of how I am right wing that is not libertarian. I'm slapping you in the face with my silk glove and saying you have nothing in your pants.

So, back it up.

I DID back it up. You decided to erase it from your reply. Instead of addressing what I said, you decided to whine.

Tell me scum bag. HOW do retired people survive in your childish and naive worldview?

And Comrade Dad2three is right there to back you up with a thanks, LOL. OK, I'll play. Where in your full quote did you show I am not libertarian? Your dick is not only gone, it's going inward into a vagina.

We tried a 'charity only' society...it FAILED. Educate yourself...

And now we have a charityless society, and that's working far worse. You don't even pretend to want to do anything on your own, you just run to government to do it for you. And you just expect it, you have no recognition of the people who earned the money and you appreciate nothing. You just demand more, more, more.

America has a MINIMAL safety net. It is not 'cradle to grave' as you right wing turds parrot from your corporate handlers. And it has save MILLIONS of Americans from poverty. In particular, the elderly in America have gone from the most likely to live in poverty to the LEAST likely to suffer that fate. ALL because of Social Security and Medicare.

Old age is NOT a character flaw, it is a REALITY that EVERY American will face. If working families are unable to afford health insurance, just try to use your tiny little mind to image what the elderly would face without Medicare. They would be wiped out with the first illness. And YOU and I would have to PAY for it.

We still have charity in our society. Pay attention to your local news where there are always fundraisers for families that suffer hardship or devastating illness.

You are NO libertarian, and you are NOT moderate, you are right wing SCUM.

 

[Samson]

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idiot

Regards,
thanatos144

Dance Monkey.......dance

 

[NYcarbineer]

Someone who is moderately Libertarian might qualify as a moderate,

but the true believers, the ideologues of Libertarianism,

are extremists.

 

[Samson]

Someone who is moderately Libertarian might qualify as a moderate,

but the true believers, the ideologues of Libertarianism,

are extremists.

Isn't that the definition of "extremists" for ANY ideology?

 

[kaz]

Do Lbertarians respect the will of ALL the people?

It seems they are only interested in themselves

You're confusing libertarians with liberals.

Okay, let's use the word "socialism," which is somewhat ambiguous.

But we can keep it simple.

Socialism - We're all in this boat together, we should help each other.

Conservatism - Every man for himself!



NOW WHICH DID THE FOUNDERS CHOOSE?

Right, because of course wanting to keep money you earned is greed, wanting money earned by others isn't.

Personal charity isn't helping people, government confiscation is.

That's what all your crap boils down to. Every time we go more your way, it gets worse, and all you say is that means we didn't do enough of what you want. Given the trillions and trillions we've spent on the social safety net without denting poverty rates, a rational mind would contemplate other solutions. A Marxist mind would bury us in rhetoric. You've chosen to bury us in rhetoric, of course.

 

[kaz]

"The only orthodox object of the institution of government is to secure the greatest degree of happiness possible to the general mass of those associated under it."

Thomas Jefferson

And now show how what he meant were Marxist, redistribution of wealth schemes.

 

[kaz]

Libertarians want government limited to those functions which only government can do. Most of us would generally agree with police, military, civil and criminal courts, roads, management of limited resources and recognition of property rights. I am not referring to anarchists who want no government here who like calling themselves libertarians, I am referring to the masses of us who want government limited, not eliminated.

Fiscal polices. We want taxes, but we want them low, flat and for the good of the people as a whole and not used for income redistribution. The left are the extremists here not only punishing success and harming employers, but even using tax COLLECTION as a welfare program with refundable tax credits. We are moderates, taxes should be reasonable and to fund the government, not implement social policy. And spending should be within our means.

Social policies. Socons go to church (or other religious institutions) then go to government to implement morality by force. Clearly they are the extremists. Libertarians believe they should have the right to persuade people to live moral lives, they should not have the right to force their morality on them. We are, the moderates.

NeoCons. We want the military used for the defense of the United States. We don't want to be policeman to the world like the right, we also don't blame our troops for the failures of our politicians like the left. And we don't want them in everyone's back yard, like both sides do. We are moderates, protect and defend, don't use force to make other's decisions just like we don't want government making our decisions here.

Republicans and Democrats are just so deep into the question of what government can do to impose their social and fiscal wills on us, they have stopped even asking the question, should government even do that? Do we have the right to make that choice for everyone and use force to impose it on all our citizens? Libertarians are the moderates, that is the first question we ask, that is the right question to answer before proceeding any further.

What bullshit. Libertarians are not much different then liberals in the fact that they try and destroy the first amendment and force their drug culture on the rest of us.

Well, that I keep getting called a right winger and a liberal in the same thread is a pretty good argument that I am the moderate...

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Libertarians want government limited to those functions which only government can do. Most of us would generally agree with police, military, civil and criminal courts, roads, management of limited resources and recognition of property rights. I am not referring to anarchists who want no government here who like calling themselves libertarians, I am referring to the masses of us who want government limited, not eliminated.

Fiscal polices. We want taxes, but we want them low, flat and for the good of the people as a whole and not used for income redistribution. The left are the extremists here not only punishing success and harming employers, but even using tax COLLECTION as a welfare program with refundable tax credits. We are moderates, taxes should be reasonable and to fund the government, not implement social policy. And spending should be within our means.

Social policies. Socons go to church (or other religious institutions) then go to government to implement morality by force. Clearly they are the extremists. Libertarians believe they should have the right to persuade people to live moral lives, they should not have the right to force their morality on them. We are, the moderates.

NeoCons. We want the military used for the defense of the United States. We don't want to be policeman to the world like the right, we also don't blame our troops for the failures of our politicians like the left. And we don't want them in everyone's back yard, like both sides do. We are moderates, protect and defend, don't use force to make other's decisions just like we don't want government making our decisions here.

Republicans and Democrats are just so deep into the question of what government can do to impose their social and fiscal wills on us, they have stopped even asking the question, should government even do that? Do we have the right to make that choice for everyone and use force to impose it on all our citizens? Libertarians are the moderates, that is the first question we ask, that is the right question to answer before proceeding any further.

What bullshit. Libertarians are not much different then liberals in the fact that they try and destroy the first amendment and force their drug culture on the rest of us.

Well, that I keep getting called a right winger and a liberal in the same thread is a pretty good argument that I am the moderate...

Moderates deal in reality. You've never even heard of it...

 

[hazlnut]

Found this today and thought it was very profound:

 

[NYcarbineer]

Someone who is moderately Libertarian might qualify as a moderate,

but the true believers, the ideologues of Libertarianism,

are extremists.

Isn't that the definition of "extremists" for ANY ideology?

Not if you're ideologically a Moderate.

If you read the Libertarian Party platform, you see plenty of extreme positions, on guns for example, or on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and other government programs, but,

when you confront self-identifying Libertarians with these extremist positions the usual response is well, the platform doesn't necessarily represent Libertarians, so my conclusion is, if you can't define a Libertarian, you can't define Libertarianism as Moderate.

 

[kaz]

What bullshit. Libertarians are not much different then liberals in the fact that they try and destroy the first amendment and force their drug culture on the rest of us.

Well, that I keep getting called a right winger and a liberal in the same thread is a pretty good argument that I am the moderate...

Moderates deal in reality. You've never even heard of it...

I'm a moderate in government. Small, but non existent. Treat all it's citizens equally. Be the last resort and not the first. It's your belief that government can make life fair for it's citizens with ubiquitous power and monopoly of force is what's tripping.

 

[KNB]

So.... it's better for the oligarchy to own the government than for the government to work for the People against the monopolizing power and wealth of the oligarchy?

 

[kaz]

Found this today and thought it was very profound:

You mean like Warren Buffet who advocates higher tax rates then hires an army of accountants to evade taxes by twisting the tax code to get paid in capital gains in what is at a minimum unethical if not illegal?

Or Bill Gates who advocates a confiscatory tax rate then hires an army of lawyers to set up massive trusts to evade paying them so he can use his own money for what he wants to use it for instead of what he advocates?

Or the Obamas who gave bupkus to charity when they both had six figure incomes until he ran for public office and knowing his charitable gifts would be scrutinized at some point then started giving?

Or millionaire Bill Clinton who was not rich when he entered public office but is rich now (making one wonder...), who deducted $50 a pair for used underwear?

Or Obama who says he should pay higher tax rates, and doesn't...

Or Charlie Rangle who headed the tax writing committee and didn't know what every businessman knows, which is you have to declare foreign income.

Or Tom Daschle, who was Senate Majority leader and didn't know what every businessman knows, which is you have to pay taxes when you get perks like a free car and driver.

Or Zoe Baird who was rich and wanted to be our primary law enforcement attorney, but didn't want to pay payroll taxes for her household staff.

Yeah, paragons of virtue Democrats are. I see why you're all over that.

 

[kaz]

So.... it's better for the oligarchy to own the government than for the government to work for the People against the monopolizing power and wealth of the oligarchy?

Strawman, no one said that

 

[rightwinger]

Well, that I keep getting called a right winger and a liberal in the same thread is a pretty good argument that I am the moderate...

Moderates deal in reality. You've never even heard of it...

I'm a moderate in government. Small, but non existent. Treat all it's citizens equally. Be the last resort and not the first. It's your belief that government can make life fair for it's citizens with ubiquitous power and monopoly of force is what's tripping.

I'm a moderate in government. I want the right sized government as determined by the voters. I want a government that does what needs doing. I realize that most things are best done as an individual, but many things are better done as a collective society than in a dog eat dog environment