Liberals On Abortion

[PoliticalChic]

[I'm a lefty that agrees with much of what you say. However, you should save some of your anger for the Right-to-Lifers that claim there is no 'tissue', only baby.

One cannot have a rational argument about where the aforesaid line of Tissue/Baby demarkation should be drawn because they don't recognize a set of chromosomes as being any different from an adult human being.

Link or lie?


Oh...wait....you always lie.


Carry on.

Did you have a brain freeze? What did I write that you would you like a link for?

Do you deny that some Right-to-Lifers that claim that a 'person' begins at conception?

Did you write this?

" Right-to-Lifers that claim there is no 'tissue', only baby."

 

[PoliticalChic]

Does ''you guys" refer to the actual Liberal who wrote the piece?

Yes, it does. How are you going to enforce these laws? You'd have to investigate every miscarriage as a potential homicide. You'd have to establish a pregnancy police.

What I think a fetus is or what you think it is really doesn't matter at the end of the day. It only matters to the woman it is inside. And unless you are willing to impose truly draconian laws to terrify women into compliance, such laws would be largely unenforceable.

"One: It is "wrong" to kill babies. Even Leftists mainly agree with this." I believe this summarizes the OP.

Fetuses aren't babies.

Again, I wonder if you have ever known a woman who has had an abortion. I mean other than some brainwashed idiot who feels regret a decade latter and screams in the Churches about "sin".

A million abortions a year is convenience. There are women who have had several of them. I owe nothing to no one. Especially by you. Screw your Church references. You take out rancor for people who warn about moral choices because you have none. And when one of them falls down and screws up it becomes a Hollywood drama that lasts for months. The illigitimate children and abortions seem to be a race and the taxpayer pays for it and is called every name in the book for having an opinion on it. For me. Stop charging me. You pay for the abortions and the children of single moms engineered by progressive agendas in our utopia for the last fifty five years that should not exist at least in these numbers. Obamacare was a warning that resources are needed. And the suckers who pay the freight rebelled.

TOTAL ABORTIONS SINCE 1973:
59,115,995

Based on numbers reported by the Guttmacher Institute 1973-2014, with projections of 926,190 for 2015-16. GI estimates a possible 3 percent under reporting rate, which is factored into the overall total. [1/17]
http://www.christianliferesources.com/article/u-s-abortion-statistics-by-year-1973-current-1042



And.....they simply lie about it....


Obama…a supporter of infanticide…which is why he lies to support Planned Parenthood.

“....on abortion, Obama is an extremist. He has opposed the Supreme Court decision that finally upheld the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act against that form of infanticide. Most startlingly, for a professed humanist, Obama – in the Illinois Senate – also voted against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act.

I have reported on several of those cases when, before the abortion was completed, an alive infant was suddenly in the room. It was disposed of as a horrified nurse who was not necessarily pro-life followed the doctors’ orders to put the baby in a pail or otherwise get rid of the child.” Infanticide candidate for president




…who has stated that he didn’t want his daughters ‘punished’ with a baby…..told this lie:


You’ve got issues like Planned Parenthood, where that organization provides millions of women cervical-cancer screenings, mammograms, all kinds of basic health care.”— President Obama during an interview on “The Tonight Show,” Oct. 24, 2012

“The president has suggested time and again that Planned Parenthood directly provides mammograms, but the organization only offers referrals and helps women find financial resources for the exams. This suggests an intentional attempt to mislead voters…”
Obama’s ‘Tonight Show’ remark: Planned Parenthood provides mammograms

"....past-President Cecile Richards falsely claimed her organization provided mammograms. Even the Washington Postdebunked that claim. Ultimately, former Planned Parenthood President Cecile Richards was forced to admit under oath in a congressional hearing that the abortion giant doesn’t provide mammograms."
Planned Parenthood on the Defensive

 

[JoeB131]

And finally, #5, your debating tactics could be refined if you spoke sans all the judgmental strata of patronization of others who post relevant topics of discussion that can be resolved in an orderly process of give and take of ideas. Come on, try harder to reach across the table. If you can.

PC is what happens when you tak a Mail Order Bride, lock it up in a house listening to hate radio all day, and then setting it loose.

No, I really have no patience for anyone who is still a Republican after September 2008. You can't fix stupid.

 

[PoliticalChic]

8. Many who have learned to hate religion on government school hew to this argument:

"Opposition to abortion is a religious viewpoint, particularly a Catholic viewpoint. The Catholics have no business imposing their religious views on the rest of us."

It is true that opposition to abortion is a religious position for many people. Orthodox Jews, Mormons, and many of the fundamentalist Protestant groups also oppose abortion. (So did the mainstream Protestant churches until recent years.) But many people are against abortion for reasons that are independent of religious authority or belief. Many would still be against abortion if they lost their faith; others are opposed to it after they have lost faith, or if they never had any faith. Only if their non-religious grounds for opposition can be proven baseless should legal prohibition of abortion fairly be called an establishment of religion. The pro-abortion forces concentrate heavily on religious arguments against abortion and generally ignore the secular arguments -- possibly because they cannot answer them.




9. Still another, more emotional reason is that so many conservatives oppose abortion.

If much of the leadership of the pro-life movement is right-wing, that is due largely to the default of the Left. We "little people" who marched against the war and now march against abortion would like to see leaders of the Left speaking out on behalf of the unborn.” From The Progressive magazine. Abortion: The Left has betrayed the sanctity of life




That's a true Liberal speaking.

Speaking in opposition to the savagery of the current Democrats/Liberals.

 

[JoeB131]

TOTAL ABORTIONS SINCE 1973:
59,115,995

Awesome. How many abortions were there before 1973?

Here's a clue for you. The birth rate didn't go down in 1973. Or in 1974. It actually went up in 1975.

So the logical conclusion- Women were having just as many abortions before Roe as after Roe. Roe didn't cause a single abortion, it just ended the hypocrisy of calling a common practice a crime no one was ever prosecuted for.

Think of it like all the Sodomy laws that were finally struck down in Lawrence. Whole lot of anal and oral sex going on before that law, and just as much happening afterwards.

 

[PoliticalChic]

And finally, #5, your debating tactics could be refined if you spoke sans all the judgmental strata of patronization of others who post relevant topics of discussion that can be resolved in an orderly process of give and take of ideas. Come on, try harder to reach across the table. If you can.

PC is what happens when you tak a Mail Order Bride, lock it up in a house listening to hate radio all day, and then setting it loose.

No, I really have no patience for anyone who is still a Republican after September 2008. You can't fix stupid.

I graciously accept your surrender.



For those first reading ErroneousJoe's posts, for context, he is merely a lonely, angry, self-hating neurotic who is unhappy with his life, and shows it via his posts.


Say a prayer for him.

 

[JoeB131]

So 'you guys' means both Liberals and conservatives?


Excellent.....that leaves you with brainless, rabid, and insane savages.

No, actually, it leaves me with sensible people that don't want government up their who-has....

Still waiting for you to tell me how you are going to enforce these laws...

 

[JoeB131]

I graciously accept your surrender.

Why, because I've accurately described you? Seriously, I wonder if you have any real life experience at all.

one more time- how are you going to enforce your laws.

We have just as many miscarriages as abortions. Once you declare fetuses to be people, you have to treat both miscarriages and abortions as potential homicides. Heck, you could even charge a woman for doing something that might have caused a miscarriage.

Did you think this out at all?

Women Now Have As Many Miscarriages As Abortions

Say a prayer for him.

Oh, Lord, may Political Chic some day grow a brain, and stop thinking she is smart because she number points someone else's crazy.

 

[alang1216]

Did you write this?

" Right-to-Lifers that claim there is no 'tissue', only baby."

I did. Do you really need a link to prove that some Right-to-Lifers claim that 'personhood' begins at conception?

Anything to make you happy:

“Personhood” laws seek to classify fertilized eggs, zygotes, embryos, and fetuses as “persons,” and to grant them full legal protection under the U.S. Constitution, including the right to life from the moment of conception.

 

[beautress]

And finally, #5, your debating tactics could be refined if you spoke sans all the judgmental strata of patronization of others who post relevant topics of discussion that can be resolved in an orderly process of give and take of ideas. Come on, try harder to reach across the table. If you can.

PC is what happens when you tak a Mail Order Bride, lock it up in a house listening to hate radio all day, and then setting it loose.

No, I really have no patience for anyone who is still a Republican after September 2008. You can't fix stupid.

Take off the shades/dark glasses. Yes, you can.
The American Revolution was the birth of free nations. We fixed monarchs away from our borders. In 1945, we expanded on that to keep oligarchs away as well. Right now, our nation has a need to push away those who push false narratives, and it shall be done. As you will see coming from the DOJ in short order.

Long live feedom

 

[jknowgood]

Oh, boy, another round of Number-pointed Crazy from the Mail Order Bride From Hell.

Okay, one more time. You guys get your ban on abortion, how are you going to enforce it?

Are you going to lock up women for getting abortions? Because honestly, I don't see anything less than that as being a deterrent, now that we have DIY abortion pills.

Their not trying to ban abortions, just after the heart starts to beat. You still have two months to kill you baby.

 

[jknowgood]

Liberals on abortion: "Safe, legal and rare"

That's it. It is that simple.

Lol, liberals lit up the new world trade center celebrating infanticide. What is the liberal mantra, abortion on demand!

 

[gipper]

I graciously accept your surrender.

Why, because I've accurately described you? Seriously, I wonder if you have any real life experience at all.

one more time- how are you going to enforce your laws.

We have just as many miscarriages as abortions. Once you declare fetuses to be people, you have to treat both miscarriages and abortions as potential homicides. Heck, you could even charge a woman for doing something that might have caused a miscarriage.

Did you think this out at all?

Women Now Have As Many Miscarriages As Abortions

Say a prayer for him.

Oh, Lord, may Political Chic some day grow a brain, and stop thinking she is smart because she number points someone else's crazy.

I guess laws against murder should be terminated.

 

[jknowgood]

Too bad for you that abortion isn't murder.

Too bad you weren't aborted.

You have no more point to make so you resort to petty insults. Your concession is duly noted.

Actually everyone of you running around celebrating the more babies murdered the better. Should've been aborted themselves. You don't deserve to enjoy a life.

 

[JoeB131]

ake off the shades/dark glasses. Yes, you can.
The American Revolution was the birth of free nations.

Oh, fucking please. By 1776, the King of Great Britain was a constitutional monarch with ceremonial powers. They outlawed slavery a lot earlier than we did and they did a lot more to protect native populations in Canada compared to the outright fucking genocide we inflicted on them in the US.

Saying, "All men are created equal" sounds a little bit shallow when you go home and whip your slaves... and in Tommy Jefferson's case, rape one.

In 1945, we expanded on that to keep oligarchs away as well. Right now, our nation has a need to push away those who push false narratives, and it shall be done. As you will see coming from the DOJ in short order.

Get real. Here's how it's going to play out... Barr's corrupt DOJ is going to try to indict FBI professionals for doing their jobs... and when it comes out that's what they were doing- their jobs, they are going to look outright silly.

Long before that, we are going to have a recession, and Trump will get run out of town on a rail. Hopefully, Mitch McConnel and his mail order bride with him.

 

[JoeB131]

I guess laws against murder should be terminated.

We've had this discussion before, buddy. You can hold up laws against murder, because they can be effectively prosecuted.

Unless you guys are willing to throw women in jail for having an abortion or a miscarriage, you aren't going to be able to effectively uphold an abortion law.

 

[JoeB131]

Their not trying to ban abortions, just after the heart starts to beat. You still have two months to kill you baby.

It's not a baby until after it's born.

You should be able to terminate a fetus at any time as long as you and your doctor think it's prudent.

 

[jknowgood]

Their not trying to ban abortions, just after the heart starts to beat. You still have two months to kill you baby.

It's not a baby until after it's born.

You should be able to terminate a fetus at any time as long as you and your doctor think it's prudent.

Once it's heart starts beating, it's a living being. You cannot argue with that.

 

[emilynghiem]

I mean real Liberals, those with integrity and a reputable view of the world, not the mind numbed variety that adhere to the Democrats no matter how insane their current agenda is.




1.Perhaps you’ve noticed that today the strongest Liberals/Democrats are those with the least ability to analyze what they are supporting. As a result, just as Orwell predicted in 1984, they can’t keep straight whether they are at war with Eastasia, or Eurasia. They need not keep track, they simply agree that the enemy at the moment is whoever the leadership says it is.
And today it is the unborn.

Hence, the Liberals were against gay marriage before they were for it. They opposed socialism before they were for it. And they opposed nuclear weapons for Iran before they were in favor of it.
So, no big deal to want to exterminate the defenseless.....

They are clueless to 180° turns by the party. Morons simply march lock-step via the party’s orders.





I came across an interesting real-Liberal essay opposing abortion, and it is instructive to peruse.


2.“Abortion: The Left has betrayed the sanctity of life From The Progressive magazine. Abortion: The Left has betrayed the sanctity of life
Consistency demands concern for the unborn

The abortion issue, more than most, illustrates the occasional tendency of the Left to become so enthusiastic over what is called a "reform" that it forgets to think the issue through. It is ironic that so many on the Left have done on abortion what the conservatives and Cold War liberals did on Vietnam: They marched off in the wrong direction, to fight the wrong war, against the wrong people.

3. Some of us … are now active in the right-to-life movement. We do not enjoy opposing our old friends on the abortion issue, but we feel that we have no choice. We are moved by what pro-life feminists call the "consistency thing" -- the belief that respect for human life demands opposition to abortion, capital punishment, euthanasia, and war. We don't think we have either the luxury or the right to choose some types of killing and say that they are all right, while others are not. A human life is a human life; and if equality means anything, it means that society may not value some human lives over others.




4. Until the last decade, people on the Left and Right generally agreed on one rule: We all protected the young. This was not merely agreement on an ethical question: It was also an expression of instinct, so deep and ancient that it scarcely required explanation. Protection of the young included protection of the unborn, for abortion was forbidden by state laws throughout the United States. Those laws reflected an ethical consensus, not based solely on religious tradition but also on scientific evidence that human life begins at conception. The prohibition of abortion in the ancient Hippocratic Oath is well known.

5. …it is important to ask why the Left in the United States generally accepted legalized abortion. One factor was the popular civil libertarian rationale for freedom of choice in abortion. Many feminists presented it as a right of women to control their own bodies. When the objection was raised that abortion ruins another person's body, they respond that a) it is not a body, just a "blob of protoplasm" (thereby displaying ignorance of biology); or b) it is not really a "person" until it is born.

When it was suggested that this is a wholly arbitrary decision, unsupported by any biology evidence, they said, "Well, that's your point of view. This is a matter of individual conscience, and in a pluralistic society people must be free to follow their consciences."




Thinking Liberals, largely an oxymoron today, continue embracing rectitude over party loyalty.

Dear PoliticalChic
Your title was about 2-ABORTION
so I will address that.

Roe V Wade and liberals aren't addressing right to life.
They are addressing DUE PROCESS issues.

The problems are
1. writing/enforcing laws that don't violate DUE PROCESS
2. protecting that Constitutional principle EQUALLY as "right to life"
or BELIEFS in both free choice, right to life, and due process

It's not only about right to life but protecting people's
beliefs and rights regarding ALL these issues EQUALLY.

The Constitution is supposed to defend against ANY belief
or group being imposed or established through Govt.

It's not either/or, but ALL THE ABOVE.

So the solution would be how do we craft legislation
that protects ALL these beliefs/rights EQUALLY
1. Beliefs in and Right to Life
2. Beliefs in and Due Process
3. Beliefs in and Freedom of Choice

How do we protect ALL THREE without denying or discriminating
against any one of these? (SEE 9th Amendment against
disparaging any other rights by enumerating some above others)

 

[Taz]

Too bad for you that abortion isn't murder.

Too bad you weren't aborted.

You have no more point to make so you resort to petty insults. Your concession is duly noted.

Actually everyone of you running around celebrating the more babies murdered the better. Should've been aborted themselves. You don't deserve to enjoy a life.

Nobody is celebrating that kind of thing, you're delusional.