Liberals and Equality

[DiamondDave]

And since you brought up Jefferson... choke on this, lib

"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government. "

i'm confused is this quote supposed to refute a progressive income tax?

being a far leftist... you are often confused

 

[Newby]

Reality. Ah yes, reality. Another 600,000 out of work last week. Aren't you conservatives so proud of how you handled the economy? Volker says that things are going down faster than they did in the last Great Republican Depression.

And all that money that Bush borrowed from China. Will China foreclose?

The government of China current holds $1,500,000,000,000 of our national debts.

I expect thanks to the bailouts of our banks PLUS the pittance (relative to how we spend money, I mean) that is the STIMULIS, I could see they owning $ 5 trillion of our debt in the next few years.

The masters of our universe (henceforth called the MOTU) have been screwing up for at least three decades, now.

One stupid wateful policy after the other, too generous tax cuts for billionsaires, bad FED policies, stupid wasteful wars of empire, all conspire to crash out economy.

This is not a Republican problem this is not a Democratic problem this is a MOTU problem.

Those geniuses that run our nation are either the dumbest bricks in the wall, or they set out to crash this economy.

I'll leave it to you to decide which you believe is the more likely explaination.

And ask yourself who gains if this economy crashes and ruins the middle class? Who will everyone be looking too to make their lives better? What freedoms will you then be willing to give up in order to be coddled and told everything will be all right? The answer isn't big business, nor is it those that believe in following the United States constitution. It will be those that are looking for power via the socialization of this country.

 

[Ravi]

And since you brought up Jefferson... choke on this, lib

"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government. "

So he wouldn't support a lower rate for capital gains tax. Interesting.

 

[KittenKoder]

And since you brought up Jefferson... choke on this, lib

"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government. "

i'm confused is this quote supposed to refute a progressive income tax?

being a far leftist... you are often confused

In spite of the truth of the reply by DD, Doeton does have a point, your quote proved nothing.

 

[KittenKoder]

Reality. Ah yes, reality. Another 600,000 out of work last week. Aren't you conservatives so proud of how you handled the economy? Volker says that things are going down faster than they did in the last Great Republican Depression.

And all that money that Bush borrowed from China. Will China foreclose?

The government of China current holds $1,500,000,000,000 of our national debts.

I expect thanks to the bailouts of our banks PLUS the pittance (relative to how we spend money, I mean) that is the STIMULIS, I could see they owning $ 5 trillion of our debt in the next few years.

The masters of our universe (henceforth called the MOTU) have been screwing up for at least three decades, now.

One stupid wateful policy after the other, too generous tax cuts for billionsaires, bad FED policies, stupid wasteful wars of empire, all conspire to crash out economy.

This is not a Republican problem this is not a Democratic problem this is a MOTU problem.

Those geniuses that run our nation are either the dumbest bricks in the wall, or they set out to crash this economy.

I'll leave it to you to decide which you believe is the more likely explaination.

And ask yourself who gains if this economy crashes and ruins the middle class? Who will everyone be looking too to make their lives better? What freedoms will you then be willing to give up in order to be coddled and told everything will be all right? The answer isn't big business, nor is it those that believe in following the United States constitution. It will be those that are looking for power via the socialization of this country.

You do remember our country survived one major depression like that already ... right? Ultimately it actually made us stronger for a short time as a result. So why does the natural cycle of economy scare you? In a crash the laborers don't suffer nearly as much as the wealthy, shorter distance to fall and all.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Liberals stand for equality, freedom, peace, love, and the best quality of life we can all attain ethically. You might not understand the ways we want to go about doing it, but we aren't lying. The progressive tax system is equal because those who make the most reap the most because of the government. Equal rights for homosexuals so they can love and marry and have the same status in this country as the rest of us. We don't want to continue the missile shield because it antagonizes our enemies more than it protects us. We don't think we should have invaded Iraq because it antagonizes our enemies in the Middle East. Instead, we should try to lead the world in a peace movement. We should cut back on using fossil fuels because climate change may adversely affect the world's biodiversity and human populations and quality of life. What the hell is so wrong with that? That's just some of what we want to do.

You have a good heart, but such a child-like simplicity and belt-sized IQ that it is painful to try to teach you. I would rather pat you on the head and smile benignly at you, and let you bring me a nice picture or two. There, there. Nap time.

 

[Bern80]

i'm confused is this quote supposed to refute a progressive income tax?

being a far leftist... you are often confused

In spite of the truth of the reply by DD, Doeton does have a point, your quote proved nothing.

Yes it did. It was used by a liberal in a veign attempt to imply that Jefferson is on the side of todays of liberals. The next quote posted was a sentiment that was anything but liberal.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Liberals hate equality. ...

No, not really... Leftists simply lack the intellectual means to recognize a distinction between equality and FAIRNESS... they erroneously believe that equality MEANS fairness...

The problem is Equality is objective, it can be overtly define and quanitified... Fairness cannot.

Take Queer Marriage... the left tells us that queers are being UNFAIRLY treated that they do not have equal rights with normal people because a queer man can't marry another queer man... etc.

In truth, the queer is at EQUITY with every other male, in that there is NOTHING preventing him from marrying... except his desire to marry ANOTHER MAN! He wants SPECIAL RIGHTS... in order to feel he is being treated fairly...

No hetero-sexual male can marry another male... I can't marry my bestest good buddy so he can share my healthinsurance, or enjoy my retirement benefits after my death... thus the law which treats EVERYONE EXACTLY THE SAME... which is to say EQUITABLY... the left demands that this is NOT FAIR to queers.

And that is why leftism fails wherever it's tried... Hell it started in France and those idiots are ON THEIR 6th REPUBLIC since they found their 'independence' and thus the distinction of how the US remains within that same republic on which it began. The US Constitution rests upon objective, immutable, bed-rock foundation of principled EQUALITY.... while the leftist French farce is mired in the subjective shifting sands of Fairness.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

You have a good heart, but such a child-like simplicity and belt-sized IQ that it is painful to try to teach you. I would rather pat you on the head and smile benignly at you, and let you bring me a nice picture or two. There, there. Nap time.

Excuse me. Not only do I communicate articulately on this board and haven't once written anything as ignorant as many of the other members here, but I was tested for having been a gifted child, I can report that my IQ is 132. I may not be a certified genius, but I'm up there. On top of that I have a good heart and I'm an idealist. Two things which I always thought were admirable qualities in Americans.

So, Miss You're-So-Smart, tell me, as briefly as you can, what do conservatives believe and how do they want to go about achieving such lofty goals as independent income, obliteration of all unfriendly cultures, and imposition of Christian values on every citizen of the US?

 

[PoliticalChic]

You have a good heart, but such a child-like simplicity and belt-sized IQ that it is painful to try to teach you. I would rather pat you on the head and smile benignly at you, and let you bring me a nice picture or two. There, there. Nap time.

So, Miss You're-So-Smart, tell me, as briefly as you can, what do conservatives believe and how do they want to go about achieving such lofty goals as independent income, obliteration of all unfriendly cultures, and imposition of Christian values on every citizen of the US?

Tutorial:
A) Conservatives believe that there are moral truths, right and wrong, ands that these truths are permanent. The result of infracting these truths will be atrocities and social disaster. Liberals believe in private morality and these differ for each person. These beliefs are aimed at the gratification of appetites and exhibit anarchistic impulses.
B) Conservatives believe that custom and tradition result in individuals living in peace. Law is custom and precedent. Liberals are destroyers of custom and convention. To a conservative, change should be gradual, as the new society is often inferior to the old. We build on the ideas and experience of our ancestors. The species is wiser than the individual (Burke).
C) Liberals are impulsive, and imprudent. They believe in quick changes, and risk new abuses worse than the ‘evils’ that they would sweep away, since remedies are usually not simple. Plato said that prudence is the mark of the statesman. There should be a balance between permanence and change, while liberals see ‘progress’ as some mythical direction for society.
D) Conservatives believe in the principle of variety, while liberal perspectives result in a narrowing uniformity. Under conservative principles, there will be differences in class, material condition and other inequalities. The only uniformity will be before the law. Society will not be perfect. Consider the results of the rule of ideologues of the last century.
E) Freedom and property are linked. Private property results in a more stable and productive society. Private property and retaining the fruits of one’s labor has been proven successful from the Puritan’s Bradford, to the Stakhanovite Revolution!
F) Conservatives believe in voluntary community and charity, based on duties to each other, as opposed to involuntary collectivism.
G) Conservatives view people as both good and bad, and for this reason believe on restraints on power, as in checks and balances, while liberals see power as a force for good, as long as the power is in their hands.

You see, "I have a good heart and I'm an idealist" are not totally satisfactory. You must think beyond "can't we all just get along."

I hope that we can continue this line of communication, because much of what you say about yourself is obviously true, and that means that at some point in your life you may see the error of your ways. One can only hope.

 

[editec]

Reality. Ah yes, reality. Another 600,000 out of work last week. Aren't you conservatives so proud of how you handled the economy? Volker says that things are going down faster than they did in the last Great Republican Depression.

And all that money that Bush borrowed from China. Will China foreclose?

The government of China current holds $1,500,000,000,000 of our national debts.

I expect thanks to the bailouts of our banks PLUS the pittance (relative to how we spend money, I mean) that is the STIMULIS, I could see they owning $ 5 trillion of our debt in the next few years.

The masters of our universe (henceforth called the MOTU) have been screwing up for at least three decades, now.

One stupid wateful policy after the other, too generous tax cuts for billionsaires, bad FED policies, stupid wasteful wars of empire, all conspire to crash out economy.

This is not a Republican problem this is not a Democratic problem this is a MOTU problem.

Those geniuses that run our nation are either the dumbest bricks in the wall, or they set out to crash this economy.

I'll leave it to you to decide which you believe is the more likely explaination.

And ask yourself who gains if this economy crashes and ruins the middle class?

Fairly easy to determine who gained thus far, isn't it? Those industrialists who took their industries overshore to take advantage of the cheaper labor. Those bankers who facilitaed the investments in foreign industry. Those shippers who brought us those foreign made goods. Those Politicians who made it all possible and therefore were funded by the aforementioned.

Who will everyone be looking too to make their lives better?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand that question.

What freedoms will you then be willing to give up in order to be coddled and told everything will be all right?

A question so laden with preposerous assumptions that it's unworthy of an answer.

The answer isn't big business, nor is it those that believe in following the United States constitution. It will be those that are looking for power via the socialization of this country.

Were we a socialist nation before FDR?

I ask that question because it was largely FDR who started us down that path to free trade which I believe is largely responsible for the trade imbalance which is destroying our economy right now.

Adn every POTUS since seems to have signed onto the same goofy notion -- that deindustrializing our nation was a grand idea.

 

[editec]

And since you brought up Jefferson... choke on this, lib

"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government. "

i'm confused is this quote supposed to refute a progressive income tax?

being a far leftist... you are often confused

There was NO income taxes during Jefferson's reign.

Damned near the entire Federal budget was paid for fromt he revenues of TARIFFS.

 

[editec]

The government of China current holds $1,500,000,000,000 of our national debts.

I expect thanks to the bailouts of our banks PLUS the pittance (relative to how we spend money, I mean) that is the STIMULIS, I could see they owning $ 5 trillion of our debt in the next few years.

The masters of our universe (henceforth called the MOTU) have been screwing up for at least three decades, now.

One stupid wateful policy after the other, too generous tax cuts for billionsaires, bad FED policies, stupid wasteful wars of empire, all conspire to crash out economy.

This is not a Republican problem this is not a Democratic problem this is a MOTU problem.

Those geniuses that run our nation are either the dumbest bricks in the wall, or they set out to crash this economy.

I'll leave it to you to decide which you believe is the more likely explaination.

And ask yourself who gains if this economy crashes and ruins the middle class? Who will everyone be looking too to make their lives better? What freedoms will you then be willing to give up in order to be coddled and told everything will be all right? The answer isn't big business, nor is it those that believe in following the United States constitution. It will be those that are looking for power via the socialization of this country.

You do remember our country survived one major depression like that already ... right?

Yes, I am aware that we suvived a major depression that basically lasted from 1929 though about 1955.

Ultimately it actually made us stronger for a short time as a result.

Did it?

So why does the natural cycle of economy scare you?

There's nothing "natural" about economic cycles. Economics, regardless of what system we create, is entirely a manmade construct.

In a crash the laborers don't suffer nearly as much as the wealthy, shorter distance to fall and all.

Tell that to the former residents of Hoovervilles, if you can find any still living.

Unlike you, I'm guessing, I actually knew hundreds of people who lived though the depression, both as mature adults, and as young adults and as children.

Your theory, that the the less far you fall the less it hurts is sophistry, of course.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Tutorial:
A) Conservatives believe that there are moral truths, right and wrong, ands that these truths are permanent. The result of infracting these truths will be atrocities and social disaster. Liberals believe in private morality and these differ for each person. These beliefs are aimed at the gratification of appetites and exhibit anarchistic impulses.

You see, now this is a fundamental difference and an interesting one to me because I wasn't aware that conservatives openly believe in moral truths. You're right, I trust in private morality, but only to a certain degree. Everyone should enjoy liberty to the extent that it doesn't infringe upon the rights of others. However, I disagree in that my beliefs are aimed at the gratification of appetites. In fact, I don't even know from where that line of reasoning comes. And as for anarchistic impulses, well, I don't think there is a way to have an entirely stable system, especially for so large a population as we have here in the modern world. Instead, I think it is better to embrace uncertainty and live without fear and anxiety.

B) Conservatives believe that custom and tradition result in individuals living in peace. Law is custom and precedent. Liberals are destroyers of custom and convention. To a conservative, change should be gradual, as the new society is often inferior to the old. We build on the ideas and experience of our ancestors. The species is wiser than the individual (Burke).

I don't think liberals are destroyer of custom and convention unilaterally. I think it would be better to describe us as reformers of irrational custom and convention, especially where it infringes upon the happiness of others. For liberals, the old society is inferior, usually, and the new society has potential to be better for all when it comes to peace, quality of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

If the Conservative belief were true, that about custom and tradition result in individuals living in peace, then why has the human race never been a race of peace?

C) Liberals are impulsive, and imprudent. They believe in quick changes, and risk new abuses worse than the ‘evils’ that they would sweep away, since remedies are usually not simple. Plato said that prudence is the mark of the statesman. There should be a balance between permanence and change, while liberals see ‘progress’ as some mythical direction for society.

I think you go too far to judge liberals as impulsive and imprudent. We believe that change is more likely to be better than the evils now present in the current systems. We do our best to foresee new abuses and make revisions to minimize such abuses. And we think progress is better for the human condition than the past.

D) Conservatives believe in the principle of variety, while liberal perspectives result in a narrowing uniformity. Under conservative principles, there will be differences in class, material condition and other inequalities. The only uniformity will be before the law. Society will not be perfect. Consider the results of the rule of ideologues of the last century.

Liberals desire cultural diversity. What makes you think that we want a uniform society beyond the issue of liberty? We want everyone to enjoy the same human rights and freedoms. We view the wealthy as perverting the system to their ends and able to better avoid the reach of law. We aren't Maoists, followers of Pol Pot, or Nazis. We believe in peace and life and freedom to pursue happiness until that pursuit infringes on the rights and freedoms of others.

E) Freedom and property are linked. Private property results in a more stable and productive society. Private property and retaining the fruits of one’s labor has been proven successful from the Puritan’s Bradford, to the Stakhanovite Revolution!

I have yet to have an opinion about private property. However, I see the whole as more important than the individual and that's why there are currently so many abuses of the capitalist and democatic systems in this country. Not too mention environmental degradation.

F) Conservatives believe in voluntary community and charity, based on duties to each other, as opposed to involuntary collectivism.

Same with liberals. When have we ever advocated for involuntary collectivism? Pay your taxes, some of it will be used for social welfare, a sometimes necessary evil that helps prevent crime, and a sometimes helping hand that assists people, especially mothers, in getting back on their feet. Humans make mistakes, you have and so have I, so let's help each other out and also live with less crime.

G) Conservatives view people as both good and bad, and for this reason believe on restraints on power, as in checks and balances, while liberals see power as a force for good, as long as the power is in their hands.

I see people as essentially technologically advanced primates, we all have the potential to do bad things. In fact, here's a quote that I can't place but I remember fairly clearly:
"Good people do good things. Bad people do bad things. But to make a good person do bad things requires religion." And I've experienced such behavior and seen that such behavior is prevalent in the human race. I see power as a force for good as long as a person uses that power for good, whether liberal or conservative.

You see, "I have a good heart and I'm an idealist" are not totally satisfactory. You must think beyond "can't we all just get along."

I hope that we can continue this line of communication, because much of what you say about yourself is obviously true, and that means that at some point in your life you may see the error of your ways. One can only hope.

Why can't we all just get along? Why not? Answer that for me. Jesus wanted the same thing!

I'm always open to revise my opinions and I know that the only thing I really know is that there is a lot that I don't know. I have very little hope for the human race, and I think that without incredible social change (or a very bad plague that kills 90% of us off), we're doomed. The Universe is a vast, cold, empty place not conducive to life, especially human life, and unless we do much to ensure that we don't screw up, we will screw up and die off.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

No, not really... Leftists simply lack the intellectual means to recognize a distinction between equality and FAIRNESS... they erroneously believe that equality MEANS fairness...
The problem is Equality is objective, it can be overtly define and quanitified... Fairness cannot.
Take Queer Marriage... the left tells us that queers are being UNFAIRLY treated that they do not have equal rights with normal people because a queer man can't marry another queer man... etc.
In truth, the queer is at EQUITY with every other male, in that there is NOTHING preventing him from marrying... except his desire to marry ANOTHER MAN! He wants SPECIAL RIGHTS... in order to feel he is being treated fairly...
No hetero-sexual male can marry another male... I can't marry my bestest good buddy so he can share my healthinsurance, or enjoy my retirement benefits after my death... thus the law which treats EVERYONE EXACTLY THE SAME... which is to say EQUITABLY... the left demands that this is NOT FAIR to queers.
And that is why leftism fails wherever it's tried... Hell it started in France and those idiots are ON THEIR 6th REPUBLIC since they found their 'independence' and thus the distinction of how the US remains within that same republic on which it began. The US Constitution rests upon objective, immutable, bed-rock foundation of principled EQUALITY.... while the leftist French farce is mired in the subjective shifting sands of Fairness.

Here is where you are fundamentally mistaken: that homosexuals want SPECIAL RIGHTS. This is why that is a mistaken assumption. You can marry the person you love and wish to marry and it is officially recognized. A gay person can not marry the person they love and wish to marry and be officially recognized as married to that person. Therefore, they do not enjoy the same status as every straight US citizen. There is no more to the issue than that: love and marriage to the person loved and desired for lifelong official commitment. And the wording you use shows an obvious prejudice to homosexuals. Do you believe in prejudice?

Germany, The Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzwerland, Denmark, any of the western European nations are far more liberal than the US. Would you say that those nations have failed? It seems to me they are doing just fine. Didn't we go through a civil war? Aren't we very isolated from the rest of the world being that there are oceans between our nation and Europe, Asia, and Africa. We have no need to worry about Canada as they are our largest trading partner, nor Mexico as they are second. Nor Central or South America as none of those countries prospered in quite the same ways ours did. Might there be more than one reason for a nation failing than whether it's liberal or conservative? Is there anything in this life that you have experienced that's as simple as that?

 

[KittenKoder]

You have a good heart, but such a child-like simplicity and belt-sized IQ that it is painful to try to teach you. I would rather pat you on the head and smile benignly at you, and let you bring me a nice picture or two. There, there. Nap time.

Excuse me. Not only do I communicate articulately on this board and haven't once written anything as ignorant as many of the other members here, but I was tested for having been a gifted child, I can report that my IQ is 132. I may not be a certified genius, but I'm up there. On top of that I have a good heart and I'm an idealist. Two things which I always thought were admirable qualities in Americans.

So, Miss You're-So-Smart, tell me, as briefly as you can, what do conservatives believe and how do they want to go about achieving such lofty goals as independent income, obliteration of all unfriendly cultures, and imposition of Christian values on every citizen of the US?

As much as I agree with much of your stance, anytime you take the defensive like that and start puffing your chest (the whole IQ and gifted child retort), you look like a fool, though everyone does, but this does not help your case one bit.

 

[Meister]

You know what? Its pointless defending what liberals actually stand for against people who have been propagandized by the conservative political machine.

Colorado, this first paragraph is just a rediculious statement. Just switch the liberals labels with conservatives, and the statement is just as true.

Liberals stand for equality, freedom, peace, love, and the best quality of life we can all attain ethically. You might not understand the ways we want to go about doing it, but we aren't lying.[/QUOTE]


Again, this statement is just as rediculious, The very same thing could be said for conservatives. The exception is that conservatives believe in our constitution, and make changes to stay within the borders of the constitution.


The progressive tax system is equal because those who make the most reap the most because of the government.[/QUOTE]

How about throwing out the current tax system, and have a flat tax? It is fair for everyone. Let's not punish the wealthy for making the American Dream come true.


Equal rights for homosexuals so they can love and marry and have the same status in this country as the rest of us.[/QUOTE]

Homosexuals have every right that I do. If they want civil unions, I'm all for it. But, traditional marriage between a man and a woman is not negotiable. God never intended it to be anything different.


We don't want to continue the missile shield because it antagonizes our enemies more than it protects us.[/QUOTE]

The missle shield is meant to not only protect us, but also the protection of the free world.

We don't think we should have invaded Iraq because it antagonizes our enemies in the Middle East. Instead, we should try to lead the world in a peace movement.[/QUOTE]


That' is up for debate, but fact being is the Middle East really hasn't liked us for a long time no matter what we do. Look at all the attacks they did with us in the 1990's culminated with 9-11-2001. But, they do like our dollar to come their way.



We should cut back on using fossil fuels because climate change may adversely affect the world's biodiversity and human populations and quality of life. What the hell is so wrong with that? That's just some of what we want to do.[/QUOTE]


Yes we should cut back in due time. Let's not wreck the economy of the world in a rush to do so. How about energy independence first, with drilling our oil? At the same time getting an affordable alternative energy.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

You have a good heart, but such a child-like simplicity and belt-sized IQ that it is painful to try to teach you. I would rather pat you on the head and smile benignly at you, and let you bring me a nice picture or two. There, there. Nap time.

Excuse me. Not only do I communicate articulately on this board and haven't once written anything as ignorant as many of the other members here, but I was tested for having been a gifted child, I can report that my IQ is 132. I may not be a certified genius, but I'm up there. On top of that I have a good heart and I'm an idealist. Two things which I always thought were admirable qualities in Americans.

So, Miss You're-So-Smart, tell me, as briefly as you can, what do conservatives believe and how do they want to go about achieving such lofty goals as independent income, obliteration of all unfriendly cultures, and imposition of Christian values on every citizen of the US?

As much as I agree with much of your stance, anytime you take the defensive like that and start puffing your chest (the whole IQ and gifted child retort), you look like a fool, though everyone does, but this does not help your case one bit.

I wasn't bragging. When someone insults my intelligence, I will back up my defense with my experiences.

 

[Harry Dresden]

You know what? Its pointless defending what liberals actually stand for against people who have been propagandized by the conservative political machine.

Colorado, this first paragraph is just a rediculious statement. Just switch the liberals labels with conservatives, and the statement is just as true.

Liberals stand for equality, freedom, peace, love, and the best quality of life we can all attain ethically. You might not understand the ways we want to go about doing it, but we aren't lying.

Again, this statement is just as rediculious, The very same thing could be said for conservatives. The exception is that conservatives believe in our constitution, and make changes to stay within the borders of the constitution.


The progressive tax system is equal because those who make the most reap the most because of the government.[/QUOTE]

How about throwing out the current tax system, and have a flat tax? It is fair for everyone. Let's not punish the wealthy for making the American Dream come true.


Equal rights for homosexuals so they can love and marry and have the same status in this country as the rest of us.[/QUOTE]

Homosexuals have every right that I do. If they want civil unions, I'm all for it. But, traditional marriage between a man and a woman is not negotiable. God never intended it to be anything different.


We don't want to continue the missile shield because it antagonizes our enemies more than it protects us.[/QUOTE]

The missle shield is meant to not only protect us, but also the protection of the free world.

We don't think we should have invaded Iraq because it antagonizes our enemies in the Middle East. Instead, we should try to lead the world in a peace movement.[/QUOTE]


That' is up for debate, but fact being is the Middle East really hasn't liked us for a long time no matter what we do. Look at all the attacks they did with us in the 1990's culminated with 9-11-2001. But, they do like our dollar to come their way.



We should cut back on using fossil fuels because climate change may adversely affect the world's biodiversity and human populations and quality of life. What the hell is so wrong with that? That's just some of what we want to do.[/QUOTE]


Yes we should cut back in due time. Let's not wreck the economy of the world in a rush to do so. How about energy independence first, with drilling our oil? At the same time getting an affordable alternative energy.[/QUOTE]



yea Colorada...what he said.....you know my IQ was measured off the scale when i was 6......i know...i know....what the hell happened.....

 

[KittenKoder]

Excuse me. Not only do I communicate articulately on this board and haven't once written anything as ignorant as many of the other members here, but I was tested for having been a gifted child, I can report that my IQ is 132. I may not be a certified genius, but I'm up there. On top of that I have a good heart and I'm an idealist. Two things which I always thought were admirable qualities in Americans.

So, Miss You're-So-Smart, tell me, as briefly as you can, what do conservatives believe and how do they want to go about achieving such lofty goals as independent income, obliteration of all unfriendly cultures, and imposition of Christian values on every citizen of the US?

As much as I agree with much of your stance, anytime you take the defensive like that and start puffing your chest (the whole IQ and gifted child retort), you look like a fool, though everyone does, but this does not help your case one bit.

I wasn't bragging. When someone insults my intelligence, I will back up my defense with my experiences.

The strongest person can ignore an insult yet retort with well worded and well hidden insults, jokes, and wisecracks instead. Not only does it make you actually look smart, it's more interesting and enjoyable to read. Also, it makes the trolls, ignorant fools, and just plain old dumbasses look more foolish then they have to resort to old foul mouthed insults.

However, the biggest point that I was hoping you would figure out, is that by doing that you are also showing the same flaw as "my god is better than your god" which many organized religious zealots use.