Letter from my employer concerning Obamacare/Obamatax

[Jarhead]

Actually, that letter says that you're not affected by the law, as far as they know right now.

"as far as they know right now"


Yeah, and that's the whole point.

So, you're outraged that there's a possibility that in 6 years, your plan might be deemed a "Cadillac" plan, and you might have to pay an additional tax?

Why don't you wait until you're actually affected by it before you get outraged, rather than get outraged about how you might at some point in the future be affected by it.

you mean like they did in Europe?

Wait until it is too late?

Sounds like a plan!

 

[Jarhead]

And in time prices for everything else will rise, just as they did in Canada... Because the money has to come from somewhere. The working class won't be able to foot the entire Bill.

Oh i know.... pricing is going to go off the scale becasue of his little ponzi scheme

Everytime I see a Con saying that I just want to throw something at the computer.

Because you guys say that as if medical expenses weren't insane as is. And even if the costs aren't that bad to you, just wait a few years with medical costs rising 3x the rate of
inflation.

Stupid ass conservatives. You viciously attack Obamacare and whats your alternative? Nothing, becuase in Conservative land, no one gets sick.

Our goal was to find WHY costs were so high and to do something about it....not to find someone to simply pay the rising costs.

So we offered ideas such as more competition amongst the insurers as it is widely known that an increase in competition for market share results in lower prices to the consumer.......and less right to sue for a scar on ones toe as a result of toe surgery giving the health care professionals lower operating costs....

Stop ignoring the ideas of the GOP...they were there....presented....and ignored.

The current administration knows its supporters are poorly informed...and they are capitalizing oin it.

Curious...what is it like to support an administration that capitalizes on your lack of knowledge?

 

[JoeB131]

"as far as they know right now"


Yeah, and that's the whole point.

So, you're outraged that there's a possibility that in 6 years, your plan might be deemed a "Cadillac" plan, and you might have to pay an additional tax?

Why don't you wait until you're actually affected by it before you get outraged, rather than get outraged about how you might at some point in the future be affected by it.

you mean like they did in Europe?

Wait until it is too late?

Sounds like a plan!

Except Europes problems have to do with the fact they got into a single currency without forming a central governemnt, not because they actually do humane things like not letting people die of treatable diseases.

Most European countries spend LESS of their GDP on health care than the US does.

List of countries by total health expenditure (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We spend 17%, compared to most industrialized nation of hte G-8 that spend about 11% on average.

So how can we spend so much more and get less, as we have higher infant mortality rates and lower life expectencies...

Too many assholes making money without contributing to the end result.

 

[ItsjustmeIthink]

Oh i know.... pricing is going to go off the scale becasue of his little ponzi scheme

Everytime I see a Con saying that I just want to throw something at the computer.

Because you guys say that as if medical expenses weren't insane as is. And even if the costs aren't that bad to you, just wait a few years with medical costs rising 3x the rate of
inflation.

Stupid ass conservatives. You viciously attack Obamacare and whats your alternative? Nothing, becuase in Conservative land, no one gets sick.

Our goal was to find WHY costs were so high and to do something about it....not to find someone to simply pay the rising costs.

So we offered ideas such as more competition amongst the insurers as it is widely known that an increase in competition for market share results in lower prices to the consumer.......and less right to sue for a scar on ones toe as a result of toe surgery giving the health care professionals lower operating costs....

Stop ignoring the ideas of the GOP...they were there....presented....and ignored.

The current administration knows its supporters are poorly informed...and they are capitalizing oin it.

Curious...what is it like to support an administration that capitalizes on your lack of knowledge?

Stop ignoring the ideas of the GOP...they were there....presented....and ignored.

Bud, the reason I'm ignoing them *is because they were presented*. Paul Ryans healthcare "plan" is essentially a healthcare "cut".

Competion is not at all sufficent to reform our heathcare system alone. If it were, then obviously healthcare costs wouldn't rise at 3x the rate of inflation (thats really fast)
Simply put, this country is too big and healthcare is too expensive for competion alone to give the same kind of effect on Healthcare costs as fullscale reform would.

The immediate effect the ACA is geared more towards lower the Gov't healthcare costs. Which is extremely needed.

 

[Jarhead]

Everytime I see a Con saying that I just want to throw something at the computer.

Because you guys say that as if medical expenses weren't insane as is. And even if the costs aren't that bad to you, just wait a few years with medical costs rising 3x the rate of
inflation.

Stupid ass conservatives. You viciously attack Obamacare and whats your alternative? Nothing, becuase in Conservative land, no one gets sick.

Our goal was to find WHY costs were so high and to do something about it....not to find someone to simply pay the rising costs.

So we offered ideas such as more competition amongst the insurers as it is widely known that an increase in competition for market share results in lower prices to the consumer.......and less right to sue for a scar on ones toe as a result of toe surgery giving the health care professionals lower operating costs....

Stop ignoring the ideas of the GOP...they were there....presented....and ignored.

The current administration knows its supporters are poorly informed...and they are capitalizing oin it.

Curious...what is it like to support an administration that capitalizes on your lack of knowledge?

Stop ignoring the ideas of the GOP...they were there....presented....and ignored.

Bud, the reason I'm ignoing them *is because they were presented*. Paul Ryans healthcare "plan" is essentially a healthcare "cut".

Competion is not all sufficent to reform our heathcare system. If it were, then obviously healthcare costs wouldn't rise at 3x the rate of inflation (thats really fast)
Simply put, this country is too big and healthcare is too expensive for competion alone to give the same kind of effect on Healthcare costs as fullscale reform would.

The immediate effect the ACA is geared more towards lower the Gov't healthcare costs. Which is extremely needed.

Simply saying "it would not work" is not convincing enough.

As of now, one can only buy healthcare insurance in onbes state. Multiply that by 50 and you will have a dramatic increase in competition. Include Massachusettes where pre existing condition clauses do not exist and all of a sudden, all will want to buy from Mass. Insurers from other states will need to compete, and drop their pre existing ciondition clauses....rates will drop as well due to the 50times increase in cometption.

In the meantime, the medical professionals all agree that mal practice insurance is their largest operating cost by many times the number 2 operating cost.....so minimize ones ability to sue for frivilous reasons and the doctors will be more apt to accept lower payments from insurance companies...allowing insurance companies to pass that savings on to the insured...and they will do to the dramatgic increase in competition.

FYI...most insurance companies settle frivilous suits as it is less expensive than dragging it through the court system..

So get rid of the frivilous suits...

How?

Inform the "suer" that if they lose, they must cover the court costs of the defendant.

 

[Greenbeard]

As of now, one can only buy healthcare insurance in onbes state. Multiply that by 50 and you will have a dramatic increase in competition. Include Massachusettes where pre existing condition clauses do not exist and all of a sudden, all will want to buy from Mass. Insurers from other states will need to compete, and drop their pre existing ciondition clauses....rates will drop as well due to the 50times increase in cometption.

Insurers will compete to take on higher-risk enrollees? They'll think to themselves, "look at those MA insurers sucking up all the expensive, high-risk customers--how are we going to get in on that action?"

 

[Jarhead]

As of now, one can only buy healthcare insurance in onbes state. Multiply that by 50 and you will have a dramatic increase in competition. Include Massachusettes where pre existing condition clauses do not exist and all of a sudden, all will want to buy from Mass. Insurers from other states will need to compete, and drop their pre existing ciondition clauses....rates will drop as well due to the 50times increase in cometption.

Insurers will compete to take on higher-risk enrollees? They'll think to themselves, "look at those MA insurers sucking up all the expensive, high-risk customers--how are we going to get in on that action?"

VERY closed minded thinking on your part.

The mass companies will get ALL of those with pre-existing conditions...and many that fear they may be found to have a pre-existing coindition....so many will likely offer the same in other states
In the meantime, the others will compete with 49 states....

There is no arguing that an increase in competiton will decrease cost to the consumer...

But such an idea was ignored.

Obama called it the affordable care act...when it was an act.....but it has nothing to do with price....

Ideas that would lower the cost were ignored.

 

[MarcATL]

It will just like all other nationalized health care countries.... you pay for national shit plan...and pay for the premium plan you want that will provide you with the care and standards you are used to having.

And in time prices for everything else will rise, just as they did in Canada... Because the money has to come from somewhere. The working class won't be able to foot the entire Bill.

Since I am self-employed, I have to pay the full amount for my health insurance. I don't have an employer who covers 70 or 80 percent of my insurance costs, so I know how much health insurance has really gone up over the last fifteen years. If you want to talk about insurance rates increasing, let's discuss how my rates increased by more than 10% every single year for more than ten years in a row, before Obamacare. After you explain to me how any of that was due to Obamacare, then please explain why my rates have only increased by 4.5% the last two years since Obamacare passed. While the 4.5% increases are still above the rate of inflation, the last two year's increases have been less than half of what they were prior to Obamacare. These are facts that I can see personally, not some numbers being thrown out by one talking group or another.

Now, moving on, if you want to compare us to Canada and their increasing costs, of course their costs are increasing. Costs for healthcare have been increasing worldwide for the last thirty years. The difference is that they still pay half of what we do. We are now paying $8000 per person per year. That is for every single person. How does that make any sense at all? The median household income is around $50,000 per year. If we assume a normal household, then there are two working adults and two children. Health costs for that family of four come to $32,000 per year, and the household income is $50,000. See how that is just plain fucked up?

Now, we all know that the family of four is not paying the full bill on that $32,000, but none the less, we must still account for it. We are spending so much on healthcare that there is nothing left to spend on anything else, like things that make the economy grow. Is Obamacare perfect or the complete answer? Not by a longshot, but at least we now have something to work with. Over time, some things will work well to save us money while providing better care for everyone, and some things will not work well. We have the power to change the bad parts and the things that don't work well.

The bottom line is that scrapping the whole thing just so we can go back to where we were prior to Obamacare is definitely not the answer. In fact, that is the worst thing we could do, unless of course, you like and support 10 to 15 percent yearly premium increases for your health insurance like we had before Obamacare.

One word... POWERFUL!!!

* gives a one-man standing ovation*

 

[MarcATL]

And in time prices for everything else will rise, just as they did in Canada... Because the money has to come from somewhere. The working class won't be able to foot the entire Bill.

Oh i know.... pricing is going to go off the scale becasue of his little ponzi scheme

Everytime I see a Con saying that I just want to throw something at the computer.

Because you guys say that as if medical expenses weren't insane as is. And even if the costs aren't that bad to you, just wait a few years with medical costs rising 3x the rate of
inflation.

Stupid ass conservatives. You viciously attack Obamacare and whats your alternative? Nothing, becuase in Conservative land, no one gets sick.

Their sthupith...iths thimple.

 

[ItsjustmeIthink]

Our goal was to find WHY costs were so high and to do something about it....not to find someone to simply pay the rising costs.

So we offered ideas such as more competition amongst the insurers as it is widely known that an increase in competition for market share results in lower prices to the consumer.......and less right to sue for a scar on ones toe as a result of toe surgery giving the health care professionals lower operating costs....

Stop ignoring the ideas of the GOP...they were there....presented....and ignored.

The current administration knows its supporters are poorly informed...and they are capitalizing oin it.

Curious...what is it like to support an administration that capitalizes on your lack of knowledge?

Stop ignoring the ideas of the GOP...they were there....presented....and ignored.

Bud, the reason I'm ignoing them *is because they were presented*. Paul Ryans healthcare "plan" is essentially a healthcare "cut".

Competion is not all sufficent to reform our heathcare system. If it were, then obviously healthcare costs wouldn't rise at 3x the rate of inflation (thats really fast)
Simply put, this country is too big and healthcare is too expensive for competion alone to give the same kind of effect on Healthcare costs as fullscale reform would.

The immediate effect the ACA is geared more towards lower the Gov't healthcare costs. Which is extremely needed.

Simply saying "it would not work" is not convincing enough.

As of now, one can only buy healthcare insurance in onbes state. Multiply that by 50 and you will have a dramatic increase in competition. Include Massachusettes where pre existing condition clauses do not exist and all of a sudden, all will want to buy from Mass. Insurers from other states will need to compete, and drop their pre existing ciondition clauses....rates will drop as well due to the 50times increase in cometption.

In the meantime, the medical professionals all agree that mal practice insurance is their largest operating cost by many times the number 2 operating cost.....so minimize ones ability to sue for frivilous reasons and the doctors will be more apt to accept lower payments from insurance companies...allowing insurance companies to pass that savings on to the insured...and they will do to the dramatgic increase in competition.

FYI...most insurance companies settle frivilous suits as it is less expensive than dragging it through the court system..

So get rid of the frivilous suits...

How?

Inform the "suer" that if they lose, they must cover the court costs of the defendant.

I think you're right that competition can alleviate some problems of the current system. Its just that what I'm saying is, is that competition alone isn't an sufficent enough solution for Healthcare as a whole. I argue that if competition were such a great fix, then Bush would have used to lower employer health benefit costs in order to confront the stagnation of wage increases for which he is known for by some.


While I may agree that the ACA isn't the best fit for out nation, its currently the best alternative IMO; as truthfully, the GOP has yet to put forth a Comprehensive Healthcare Reform Plan other than that of Paul Ryan's, which I don't even think you can consider rational in thought.

I eagerly await Romney's heathcare plan, but given his record, won't it be Obamacare or similar? lol

 

[AmericanFirst]

Actually, that letter says that you're not affected by the law, as far as they know right now.

The hard right trash doesn't care, in their minds: The ACA = complete doom and destruction to america. We will be forced to live on the streets in cardboard boxes, dig through landfills for scraps, and drink from swamps to survive..

The Right says this about every bit of change and progress that happens. One example..remember how allowing gays in the military was going to destroy that institution? How many times did we hear hysterica to that effect?

Imagine if the country had actually listened to the Right over the decades of the history of this country. Think of all the changes that would not have happened.

We would still be a great country unlike the cesspool the libtard commies have turned it into.

 

[francoHFW]

Pure Pubcrappe...

Romneycare a great success, none of the PUB doom and gloom. Frontline said cost rises are now 2%, easily the lowest in the USA. So change the channel...

"For this reason he also provided for subsidies for individuals living below three times the federal poverty line to make insurance affordable. This “three-legged stool”—banning discrimination in insurance markets, mandating that individuals purchase insurance, and providing low-income subsidies for insurance purchase—became the basis for both our reform in Massachusetts and for the Affordable Care Act (ACA).The enormous success of health-care reform in the almost six years since its passage in Massachusetts can make us more confident that this three-legged stool will work for the nation as a whole. We have covered about two-thirds of uninsured Massachusetts residents, and have lowered the premiums in the non-group market by half relative to national premium trends. And we have done so with broad public support.

Moreover, this reform succeeded without interfering with the employer-sponsored insurance market that works for most of our residents: employer-sponsored insurance coverage has actually risen in Massachusetts, while falling sharply nationally, and the premiums for employer-sponsored insurance rose no faster in Massachusetts than they did nationally.This was all possible because the individual mandate ended the “death spiral” of trying to obtain fairly priced insurance by just forcing insurers to charge everyone the same price.

The bottom line is that we can’t have fairly priced insurance for the healthy and sick alike without the broad participation that is guaranteed by the mandate. The mandate is the spinach we have to eat to get the dessert that is fairly priced insurance coverage.

Actually, RomneyCare is an enormous success « Hot Air HeadlinesMar 27, 2012 ... Actually, RomneyCare is an enormous success. Into this chasm stepped the hero of our story, Governor Mitt Romney, and his plan for ...

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/03/rom...nd-falsehoods/ - Cachedromneycare success - Google Search

 

[francoHFW]

The hard right trash doesn't care, in their minds: The ACA = complete doom and destruction to america. We will be forced to live on the streets in cardboard boxes, dig through landfills for scraps, and drink from swamps to survive..

The Right says this about every bit of change and progress that happens. One example..remember how allowing gays in the military was going to destroy that institution? How many times did we hear hysterica to that effect?

Imagine if the country had actually listened to the Right over the decades of the history of this country. Think of all the changes that would not have happened.

We would still be a great country unlike the cesspool the libtard commies have turned it into.

You're brainwashed to the point of idiocy. Pubs since Nixon have ruined the Great Society, and Reaganish and the Booosh legacy of pandering to the greedy rich have ruined the nonrich and the country. See sig pp1.

And thanks for 9/11, the stupidest wars, and the DEPRESSION. Worst party and whacky voters in the modern world. The EU was doing great before YOUR depression, dingbats.

 

[hortysir]

Pure Pubcrappe...

Romneycare a great success, none of the PUB doom and gloom. Frontline said cost rises are now 2%, easily the lowest in the USA. So change the channel...

"For this reason he also provided for subsidies for individuals living below three times the federal poverty line to make insurance affordable. This “three-legged stool”—banning discrimination in insurance markets, mandating that individuals purchase insurance, and providing low-income subsidies for insurance purchase—became the basis for both our reform in Massachusetts and for the Affordable Care Act (ACA).The enormous success of health-care reform in the almost six years since its passage in Massachusetts can make us more confident that this three-legged stool will work for the nation as a whole. We have covered about two-thirds of uninsured Massachusetts residents, and have lowered the premiums in the non-group market by half relative to national premium trends. And we have done so with broad public support.

Moreover, this reform succeeded without interfering with the employer-sponsored insurance market that works for most of our residents: employer-sponsored insurance coverage has actually risen in Massachusetts, while falling sharply nationally, and the premiums for employer-sponsored insurance rose no faster in Massachusetts than they did nationally.This was all possible because the individual mandate ended the “death spiral” of trying to obtain fairly priced insurance by just forcing insurers to charge everyone the same price.

The bottom line is that we can’t have fairly priced insurance for the healthy and sick alike without the broad participation that is guaranteed by the mandate. The mandate is the spinach we have to eat to get the dessert that is fairly priced insurance coverage.

Actually, RomneyCare is an enormous success « Hot Air HeadlinesMar 27, 2012 ... Actually, RomneyCare is an enormous success. Into this chasm stepped the hero of our story, Governor Mitt Romney, and his plan for ...

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/03/rom...nd-falsehoods/ - Cachedromneycare success - Google Search

That wonderful for Mass.
If other states like the model, they're more than welcome to follow it.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Everytime I see a Con saying that I just want to throw something at the computer.

Because you guys say that as if medical expenses weren't insane as is. And even if the costs aren't that bad to you, just wait a few years with medical costs rising 3x the rate of
inflation.

Stupid ass conservatives. You viciously attack Obamacare and whats your alternative? Nothing, becuase in Conservative land, no one gets sick.

Our goal was to find WHY costs were so high and to do something about it....not to find someone to simply pay the rising costs.

So we offered ideas such as more competition amongst the insurers as it is widely known that an increase in competition for market share results in lower prices to the consumer.......and less right to sue for a scar on ones toe as a result of toe surgery giving the health care professionals lower operating costs....

Stop ignoring the ideas of the GOP...they were there....presented....and ignored.

The current administration knows its supporters are poorly informed...and they are capitalizing oin it.

Curious...what is it like to support an administration that capitalizes on your lack of knowledge?

Stop ignoring the ideas of the GOP...they were there....presented....and ignored.

Bud, the reason I'm ignoing them *is because they were presented*. Paul Ryans healthcare "plan" is essentially a healthcare "cut".

Competion is not at all sufficent to reform our heathcare system alone. If it were, then obviously healthcare costs wouldn't rise at 3x the rate of inflation (thats really fast)
Simply put, this country is too big and healthcare is too expensive for competion alone to give the same kind of effect on Healthcare costs as fullscale reform would.

The immediate effect the ACA is geared more towards lower the Gov't healthcare costs. Which is extremely needed.

Obamacare is a bad bill pushed on us by the idiot left that does what they said it wouldn't. Throw it out the window like a socialist bill should be treated.

 

[AmericanFirst]

The Right says this about every bit of change and progress that happens. One example..remember how allowing gays in the military was going to destroy that institution? How many times did we hear hysterica to that effect?

Imagine if the country had actually listened to the Right over the decades of the history of this country. Think of all the changes that would not have happened.

We would still be a great country unlike the cesspool the libtard commies have turned it into.

You're brainwashed to the point of idiocy. Pubs since Nixon have ruined the Great Society, and Reaganish and the Booosh legacy of pandering to the greedy rich have ruined the nonrich and the country. See sig pp1.

And thanks for 9/11, the stupidest wars, and the DEPRESSION. Worst party and whacky voters in the modern world. The EU was doing great before YOUR depression, dingbats.

YEs, you have proven yourself to be stupid. Clinton is to blame for 9-11. THE GREAT SOCIETY IS CODE FOR COMMUNISM AND IT SHOULD BE BROUGHT DOWN. IF YOU LOVE SOCIALISM, MOVE.

 

[Greenbeard]

The mass companies will get ALL of those with pre-existing conditions...and many that fear they may be found to have a pre-existing coindition....so many will likely offer the same in other states
In the meantime, the others will compete with 49 states....

I don't think you're getting this. Covering pre-existing conditions is not a competitive advantage, particularly in the absence of risk adjustment between insurance plans and subsidies. That's why in the absence of regulations requiring them to, insurers don't do it.

If you create a market in which some companies are operating under rules that require them to cover pre-existing conditions and other companies are operating under rules that don't, the former companies are absolutely dead in the water. A healthy (but reasonably risk averse) Bay Stater can presumably drop their MA-approved coverage and instead buy a cheaper plan from a deregulated state. That plan is cheaper precisely because it doesn't allow higher-risk people into the insurance pool. Meanwhile the MA plans get increasingly expensive because higher risks from all over the country are attracted to it, while the lower risk enrollees in those plans right now decide to drop their MA coverage and buy deregulated plans from other states.

So Massachusetts either joins the race to the bottom and deregulates its insurance market (in which case the folks you think are so coveted by health insurance companies are fucked) or its insurance market implodes. Either way, the market evolves toward more uninsured folks, not less.

This idea of having insurers "competing" under multiple different sets of insurance rules in the same market is insane. It's nonsensical and unworkable. There is no competition if the rules of the road aren't the same for everyone in the market. That's why a level playing field is so critical.

But such an idea was ignored.

Obama called it the affordable care act...when it was an act.....but it has nothing to do with price....

The ACA allows insurers to sell their products in multiple states. It even seeds new non-profit insurance companies to offer more options to consumers. What it doesn't do is eliminate regulatory minimums and allow insurers operating in the same market to play by different rules.

 

[daveman]

People who claim that they pay out of pocket for their medical expenses are either full of shit or have never been seriously ill or injured.

Speaking of being full of shit...

Doctors Who Don

Why Some Doctors Don't Accept Medicare or Insurance

Texas Doctor Publishes Price List – Does Not Accept Insurance, Medicaid or Medicare « Risk Managers

Local doctors are opting out of insurance-based medicine » Ventura County Star

Apex physician doesn't accept health insurance :: WRAL.com

 

[daveman]

Ironic, THIS is what conservatives had to say in the early '90's when Clinton and Democrats tried to reform health care.

No, that's what Heritage had to say.

It's a bad idea, no matter who came up with it.

Oh, and I bet you can't find all of Obama's taxes in the Heritage plan.

 

[daveman]

It will just like all other nationalized health care countries.... you pay for national shit plan...and pay for the premium plan you want that will provide you with the care and standards you are used to having.

Except its nothing like any of those countries at all. But keep living in your fantasy world.

Actually it's going to be much MUCH worse because we have no experience with it and the upshot will be the only people that will get benefits from the system are the people that know how to work the system.

The big question to your health care provider will not be 'Are you a good doctor?' but 'Do you know how to work the system and keep me alive?"