Lets focus on economics and a balanced budget

[Centinel]

Conjecture. You have no proof of that.

We know now that people aren't saving as inproved with my link. You live in some fantasy land.

That is only under the current SSI scheme. It's conjecture that they wouldn't save when they are responsible for doing so.

We know people don't save well for retirement. It is conjecture that they would without SS. Many already think there will be no SS, yet they don't save.

Again, how other people conduct their lives is not my concern.

Well if we have a bunch of poor old people we will take care of them. We mine as well do it with SS. If you think we would let the old die on the streets, you are very wrong.

If they haven't saved enough to allow them to retire, they'll need to continue to work. Retirement will be a luxury they will not be able to afford due to their failure to plan.

 

[Centinel]

It's not really my concern whether people are good savers or not. It IS my concern that the government takes the property of one person and gives it to another. That's a violation of property rights, and that's why I oppose social security.

doesn't happen that way sport .. keep trying.

What doesn't happen what way?

your SS account going to other people ... no rights violation.

It's taking one person's property to fund another person's retirement.

BS !

What specifically is BS in your opinion?

 

[Brain357]

We know now that people aren't saving as inproved with my link. You live in some fantasy land.

That is only under the current SSI scheme. It's conjecture that they wouldn't save when they are responsible for doing so.

We know people don't save well for retirement. It is conjecture that they would without SS. Many already think there will be no SS, yet they don't save.

Again, how other people conduct their lives is not my concern.

Well if we have a bunch of poor old people we will take care of them. We mine as well do it with SS. If you think we would let the old die on the streets, you are very wrong.

If they haven't saved enough to allow them to retire, they'll need to continue to work. Retirement will be a luxury they will not be able to afford due to their failure to plan.

And you think that is an option? Many are pushed out of their jobs before 65. Not many looking to hire people in their 60s. You really live in fantasy land.

 

[Siete]

doesn't happen that way sport .. keep trying.

What doesn't happen what way?

your SS account going to other people ... no rights violation.

It's taking one person's property to fund another person's retirement.

BS !

What specifically is BS in your opinion?

in a nutshell?

You.

 

[Slade3200]

We know now that people aren't saving as inproved with my link. You live in some fantasy land.

That is only under the current SSI scheme. It's conjecture that they wouldn't save when they are responsible for doing so.

We know people don't save well for retirement. It is conjecture that they would without SS. Many already think there will be no SS, yet they don't save.

Again, how other people conduct their lives is not my concern.

Well if we have a bunch of poor old people we will take care of them. We mine as well do it with SS. If you think we would let the old die on the streets, you are very wrong.

If they haven't saved enough to allow them to retire, they'll need to continue to work. Retirement will be a luxury they will not be able to afford due to their failure to plan.

And if they can't work because they had a stroke or Alzheimer's or another of the many conditions old people get. Or they get replaced by a college grad and can only pick up a minimum wage job that no longer covers the bills... Then what?

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

That is only under the current SSI scheme. It's conjecture that they wouldn't save when they are responsible for doing so.

We know people don't save well for retirement. It is conjecture that they would without SS. Many already think there will be no SS, yet they don't save.

Again, how other people conduct their lives is not my concern.

Well if we have a bunch of poor old people we will take care of them. We mine as well do it with SS. If you think we would let the old die on the streets, you are very wrong.

If they haven't saved enough to allow them to retire, they'll need to continue to work. Retirement will be a luxury they will not be able to afford due to their failure to plan.

And if they can't work because they had a stroke or Alzheimer's or another of the many conditions old people get. Or they get replaced by a college grad and can only pick up a minimum wage job that no longer covers the bills... Then what?

You realize that the wealthiest of all age demographics is households headed by someone 65 and older? Social Security isn't about poverty alleviation - 1/5th of seniors in the lowest income quintile aren't even eligible for benefits. It is old-age insurance.

 

[Slade3200]

We know people don't save well for retirement. It is conjecture that they would without SS. Many already think there will be no SS, yet they don't save.

Again, how other people conduct their lives is not my concern.

Well if we have a bunch of poor old people we will take care of them. We mine as well do it with SS. If you think we would let the old die on the streets, you are very wrong.

If they haven't saved enough to allow them to retire, they'll need to continue to work. Retirement will be a luxury they will not be able to afford due to their failure to plan.

And if they can't work because they had a stroke or Alzheimer's or another of the many conditions old people get. Or they get replaced by a college grad and can only pick up a minimum wage job that no longer covers the bills... Then what?

You realize that the wealthiest of all age demographics is households headed by someone 65 and older? Social Security isn't about poverty alleviation - 1/5th of seniors in the lowest income quintile aren't even eligible for benefits. It is old-age insurance.

You are joking right? How old are you? Most seniors that I know are very concerned about their financial situation... Sure if they retire and live 5 years then they are pretty well set, but if they live for another 20-30 years it is very intimidating about how they will afford to do that. Dropping SS will not help things and is a slap in the face to our elderly. You should be shamed to make such propositions without thoughtful solutions. Simply stating that people will be forced to work longer or save more is insulting and idiotic.

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

You realize that the wealthiest of all age demographics is households headed by someone 65 and older? Social Security isn't about poverty alleviation - 1/5th of seniors in the lowest income quintile aren't even eligible for benefits. It is old-age insurance.

You are joking right? How old are you? Most seniors that I know are very concerned about their financial situation... Sure if they retire and live 5 years then they are pretty well set, but if they live for another 20-30 years it is very intimidating about how they will afford to do that. Dropping SS will not help things and is a slap in the face to our elderly. You should be shamed to make such propositions without thoughtful solutions. Simply stating that people will be forced to work longer or save more is insulting and idiotic.

Maybe the US Census and the Federal Reserve Board are joking, I am just repeating them.

I didn't say that dropping SS was the answer, but it is more likely to happen the longer than seniors pretend that they are owed something in order to resist change. The 3rd Rail of politics works because most of these seniors have over the years voted for politicians who did nothing about the widening gap in the promises and resources of the system. The system is where it is because of voters, not because of workers and their offspring. 50% of the public didn't even have a vote the last time that SS was reformed. If it explodes seniors have only themselves to blame.

 

[Centinel]

Again, how other people conduct their lives is not my concern.

Well if we have a bunch of poor old people we will take care of them. We mine as well do it with SS. If you think we would let the old die on the streets, you are very wrong.

If they haven't saved enough to allow them to retire, they'll need to continue to work. Retirement will be a luxury they will not be able to afford due to their failure to plan.

And if they can't work because they had a stroke or Alzheimer's or another of the many conditions old people get. Or they get replaced by a college grad and can only pick up a minimum wage job that no longer covers the bills... Then what?

You realize that the wealthiest of all age demographics is households headed by someone 65 and older? Social Security isn't about poverty alleviation - 1/5th of seniors in the lowest income quintile aren't even eligible for benefits. It is old-age insurance.

You are joking right? How old are you? Most seniors that I know are very concerned about their financial situation... Sure if they retire and live 5 years then they are pretty well set, but if they live for another 20-30 years it is very intimidating about how they will afford to do that.

Why would someone stop working if they have 20-30 years of life left? Especially if they don't have the financial means to do so. That seems like a very unwise choice.

 

[Slade3200]

Well if we have a bunch of poor old people we will take care of them. We mine as well do it with SS. If you think we would let the old die on the streets, you are very wrong.

If they haven't saved enough to allow them to retire, they'll need to continue to work. Retirement will be a luxury they will not be able to afford due to their failure to plan.

And if they can't work because they had a stroke or Alzheimer's or another of the many conditions old people get. Or they get replaced by a college grad and can only pick up a minimum wage job that no longer covers the bills... Then what?

You realize that the wealthiest of all age demographics is households headed by someone 65 and older? Social Security isn't about poverty alleviation - 1/5th of seniors in the lowest income quintile aren't even eligible for benefits. It is old-age insurance.

You are joking right? How old are you? Most seniors that I know are very concerned about their financial situation... Sure if they retire and live 5 years then they are pretty well set, but if they live for another 20-30 years it is very intimidating about how they will afford to do that.

Why would someone stop working if they have 20-30 years of life left? Especially if they don't have the financial means to do so. That seems like a very unwise choice.

Why? Maybe because they get cancer, Alzheimer's, have to take care of a sick spouse, break a hip, or one of a hundred other things that happen to old people

 

[Campbell]

View attachment 69109

Ok so roughly 33% of the federal budget is discretionary spending. To balance the budget will require more than just cuts in discretionary spending.

One of the huge drivers of medicare and social security is the baby boomer generation retirees. We have an enormous number of old people drawing benefits. I think the current stat on ratio of those paying in for those receiving is 3:1 where as it was 15:1 when we started the program.

How do we get there?
1. do we cut social security benefits?
2. do we gut medicare?
3. do we lift the cap on taxed income?

we can talk about cutting food stamps or eliminating the department of education or cutting farm subsidies or foreign aid but those are such small pieces of the pie. Everything has to be on the table

Raise taxes on the wealthy. Bill Clinton took over a Reagan disaster after Reagan slashed tax rates to 50 year lows and continued to spend like a drunk sailor. When you cut the income your spending needs to match DUUUUUUHHH!!

Not to be a fact monster, but where does the 50% come from anyway. Reagan made massive tax increases on lower income workers, specifically in the form of high SS taxes. He raised 11 different taxes. If you are talking about the 1986 tax reform, it was as a much Bill Bradley as anyone and it was projected to be revenue neutral. Reagan reduced personal income tax rates on those who made a lot of money - but no one paid those rates anyway. That is why we created the alternative minimum tax in 1969.

I told you the facts and showed you the figures. Republicans borrow from foreign banks and funnel it directly to the rich in the form of tax cuts. Look at what began to happen in 1982:

The Republicans never have seen a tax cut for corporations and the rich they didn't like but never have quit spending for their pet projects and war machine:

These figures came from the bureau of the debt....they're easily verified:


......................................................Total U S Debt......................................................

09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accommodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32(Bill Clinton Raised Tax Rates On The Rich)
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38 ( Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)((Reagan Slashed Tax Rates To Pre Depression Levels)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

View attachment 69109

Ok so roughly 33% of the federal budget is discretionary spending. To balance the budget will require more than just cuts in discretionary spending.

One of the huge drivers of medicare and social security is the baby boomer generation retirees. We have an enormous number of old people drawing benefits. I think the current stat on ratio of those paying in for those receiving is 3:1 where as it was 15:1 when we started the program.

How do we get there?
1. do we cut social security benefits?
2. do we gut medicare?
3. do we lift the cap on taxed income?

we can talk about cutting food stamps or eliminating the department of education or cutting farm subsidies or foreign aid but those are such small pieces of the pie. Everything has to be on the table

Raise taxes on the wealthy. Bill Clinton took over a Reagan disaster after Reagan slashed tax rates to 50 year lows and continued to spend like a drunk sailor. When you cut the income your spending needs to match DUUUUUUHHH!!

Not to be a fact monster, but where does the 50% come from anyway. Reagan made massive tax increases on lower income workers, specifically in the form of high SS taxes. He raised 11 different taxes. If you are talking about the 1986 tax reform, it was as a much Bill Bradley as anyone and it was projected to be revenue neutral. Reagan reduced personal income tax rates on those who made a lot of money - but no one paid those rates anyway. That is why we created the alternative minimum tax in 1969.

I told you the facts and showed you the figures. Republicans borrow from foreign banks and funnel it directly to the rich in the form of tax cuts. Look at what began to happen in 1982:

The Republicans never have seen a tax cut for corporations and the rich they didn't like but never have quit spending for their pet projects and war machine:

These figures came from the bureau of the debt....they're easily verified:


......................................................Total U S Debt......................................................

09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accommodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32(Bill Clinton Raised Tax Rates On The Rich)
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38 ( Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)((Reagan Slashed Tax Rates To Pre Depression Levels)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00

Look at what began to happen in 1982:

That's when we finally started experiencing some decent economic growth.

These figures came from the bureau of the debt....they're easily verified:

Don't you have any more recent figures?

 

[Campbell]

View attachment 69109

Ok so roughly 33% of the federal budget is discretionary spending. To balance the budget will require more than just cuts in discretionary spending.

One of the huge drivers of medicare and social security is the baby boomer generation retirees. We have an enormous number of old people drawing benefits. I think the current stat on ratio of those paying in for those receiving is 3:1 where as it was 15:1 when we started the program.

How do we get there?
1. do we cut social security benefits?
2. do we gut medicare?
3. do we lift the cap on taxed income?

we can talk about cutting food stamps or eliminating the department of education or cutting farm subsidies or foreign aid but those are such small pieces of the pie. Everything has to be on the table

Raise taxes on the wealthy. Bill Clinton took over a Reagan disaster after Reagan slashed tax rates to 50 year lows and continued to spend like a drunk sailor. When you cut the income your spending needs to match DUUUUUUHHH!!

Not to be a fact monster, but where does the 50% come from anyway. Reagan made massive tax increases on lower income workers, specifically in the form of high SS taxes. He raised 11 different taxes. If you are talking about the 1986 tax reform, it was as a much Bill Bradley as anyone and it was projected to be revenue neutral. Reagan reduced personal income tax rates on those who made a lot of money - but no one paid those rates anyway. That is why we created the alternative minimum tax in 1969.

I told you the facts and showed you the figures. Republicans borrow from foreign banks and funnel it directly to the rich in the form of tax cuts. Look at what began to happen in 1982:

The Republicans never have seen a tax cut for corporations and the rich they didn't like but never have quit spending for their pet projects and war machine:

These figures came from the bureau of the debt....they're easily verified:


......................................................Total U S Debt......................................................

09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accommodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32(Bill Clinton Raised Tax Rates On The Rich)
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38 ( Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)((Reagan Slashed Tax Rates To Pre Depression Levels)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00

Look at what began to happen in 1982:

That's when we finally started experiencing some decent economic growth.

These figures came from the bureau of the debt....they're easily verified:

Don't you have any more recent figures?

Horse Shit!!!

It's when this started:

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

View attachment 69109

Ok so roughly 33% of the federal budget is discretionary spending. To balance the budget will require more than just cuts in discretionary spending.

One of the huge drivers of medicare and social security is the baby boomer generation retirees. We have an enormous number of old people drawing benefits. I think the current stat on ratio of those paying in for those receiving is 3:1 where as it was 15:1 when we started the program.

How do we get there?
1. do we cut social security benefits?
2. do we gut medicare?
3. do we lift the cap on taxed income?

we can talk about cutting food stamps or eliminating the department of education or cutting farm subsidies or foreign aid but those are such small pieces of the pie. Everything has to be on the table

Raise taxes on the wealthy. Bill Clinton took over a Reagan disaster after Reagan slashed tax rates to 50 year lows and continued to spend like a drunk sailor. When you cut the income your spending needs to match DUUUUUUHHH!!

Not to be a fact monster, but where does the 50% come from anyway. Reagan made massive tax increases on lower income workers, specifically in the form of high SS taxes. He raised 11 different taxes. If you are talking about the 1986 tax reform, it was as a much Bill Bradley as anyone and it was projected to be revenue neutral. Reagan reduced personal income tax rates on those who made a lot of money - but no one paid those rates anyway. That is why we created the alternative minimum tax in 1969.

I told you the facts and showed you the figures. Republicans borrow from foreign banks and funnel it directly to the rich in the form of tax cuts. Look at what began to happen in 1982:

The Republicans never have seen a tax cut for corporations and the rich they didn't like but never have quit spending for their pet projects and war machine:

These figures came from the bureau of the debt....they're easily verified:


......................................................Total U S Debt......................................................

09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accommodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32(Bill Clinton Raised Tax Rates On The Rich)
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38 ( Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)((Reagan Slashed Tax Rates To Pre Depression Levels)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00

Look at what began to happen in 1982:

That's when we finally started experiencing some decent economic growth.

These figures came from the bureau of the debt....they're easily verified:

Don't you have any more recent figures?

Horse Shit!!!

It's when this started:

Thanks.
Now do you have more recent debt numbers?
Ones that show Obama added more than $8.4 trillion to the debt. So far.

 

[Slade3200]

Raise taxes on the wealthy. Bill Clinton took over a Reagan disaster after Reagan slashed tax rates to 50 year lows and continued to spend like a drunk sailor. When you cut the income your spending needs to match DUUUUUUHHH!!

Not to be a fact monster, but where does the 50% come from anyway. Reagan made massive tax increases on lower income workers, specifically in the form of high SS taxes. He raised 11 different taxes. If you are talking about the 1986 tax reform, it was as a much Bill Bradley as anyone and it was projected to be revenue neutral. Reagan reduced personal income tax rates on those who made a lot of money - but no one paid those rates anyway. That is why we created the alternative minimum tax in 1969.

I told you the facts and showed you the figures. Republicans borrow from foreign banks and funnel it directly to the rich in the form of tax cuts. Look at what began to happen in 1982:

The Republicans never have seen a tax cut for corporations and the rich they didn't like but never have quit spending for their pet projects and war machine:

These figures came from the bureau of the debt....they're easily verified:


......................................................Total U S Debt......................................................

09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accommodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32(Bill Clinton Raised Tax Rates On The Rich)
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38 ( Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)((Reagan Slashed Tax Rates To Pre Depression Levels)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00

Look at what began to happen in 1982:

That's when we finally started experiencing some decent economic growth.

These figures came from the bureau of the debt....they're easily verified:

Don't you have any more recent figures?

Horse Shit!!!

It's when this started:

Thanks.
Now do you have more recent debt numbers?
Ones that show Obama added more than $8.4 trillion to the debt. So far.

Does the bailout stimulus or inherited wars expense or $4 trillion in GDP growth play any kind of factor in your critique?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Not to be a fact monster, but where does the 50% come from anyway. Reagan made massive tax increases on lower income workers, specifically in the form of high SS taxes. He raised 11 different taxes. If you are talking about the 1986 tax reform, it was as a much Bill Bradley as anyone and it was projected to be revenue neutral. Reagan reduced personal income tax rates on those who made a lot of money - but no one paid those rates anyway. That is why we created the alternative minimum tax in 1969.

I told you the facts and showed you the figures. Republicans borrow from foreign banks and funnel it directly to the rich in the form of tax cuts. Look at what began to happen in 1982:

The Republicans never have seen a tax cut for corporations and the rich they didn't like but never have quit spending for their pet projects and war machine:

These figures came from the bureau of the debt....they're easily verified:


......................................................Total U S Debt......................................................

09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accommodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32(Bill Clinton Raised Tax Rates On The Rich)
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38 ( Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)((Reagan Slashed Tax Rates To Pre Depression Levels)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00

Look at what began to happen in 1982:

That's when we finally started experiencing some decent economic growth.

These figures came from the bureau of the debt....they're easily verified:

Don't you have any more recent figures?

Horse Shit!!!

It's when this started:

Thanks.
Now do you have more recent debt numbers?
Ones that show Obama added more than $8.4 trillion to the debt. So far.

Does the bailout stimulus or inherited wars expense or $4 trillion in GDP growth play any kind of factor in your critique?

Well, the bank TARP spending occurred under Bush and was repaid under Obama.
Also, during Obama's terms the Fed has turned over $500 billion in profit to the US Treasury.
So if we wanted to be picky about it, you could blame Obama for over $9 trillion in added debt.

 

[Campbell]

Raise taxes on the wealthy. Bill Clinton took over a Reagan disaster after Reagan slashed tax rates to 50 year lows and continued to spend like a drunk sailor. When you cut the income your spending needs to match DUUUUUUHHH!!

Not to be a fact monster, but where does the 50% come from anyway. Reagan made massive tax increases on lower income workers, specifically in the form of high SS taxes. He raised 11 different taxes. If you are talking about the 1986 tax reform, it was as a much Bill Bradley as anyone and it was projected to be revenue neutral. Reagan reduced personal income tax rates on those who made a lot of money - but no one paid those rates anyway. That is why we created the alternative minimum tax in 1969.

I told you the facts and showed you the figures. Republicans borrow from foreign banks and funnel it directly to the rich in the form of tax cuts. Look at what began to happen in 1982:

The Republicans never have seen a tax cut for corporations and the rich they didn't like but never have quit spending for their pet projects and war machine:

These figures came from the bureau of the debt....they're easily verified:


......................................................Total U S Debt......................................................

09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accommodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32(Bill Clinton Raised Tax Rates On The Rich)
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38 ( Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)((Reagan Slashed Tax Rates To Pre Depression Levels)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00

Look at what began to happen in 1982:

That's when we finally started experiencing some decent economic growth.

These figures came from the bureau of the debt....they're easily verified:

Don't you have any more recent figures?

Horse Shit!!!

It's when this started:

Thanks.
Now do you have more recent debt numbers?
Ones that show Obama added more than $8.4 trillion to the debt. So far.

Over two trillion dollars of Obama's debt went to pay interest on the $12 trillion Reagan/Bushes debt:

You do understand Reagan/Bushes don't you?



...........................................................Total U S Debt...........................................................

09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accommodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32(Bill Clinton Raised Taxes On The Rich)
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38 ( Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)((Reagan Slashed Tax Rates To Pre Depression Levels)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Not to be a fact monster, but where does the 50% come from anyway. Reagan made massive tax increases on lower income workers, specifically in the form of high SS taxes. He raised 11 different taxes. If you are talking about the 1986 tax reform, it was as a much Bill Bradley as anyone and it was projected to be revenue neutral. Reagan reduced personal income tax rates on those who made a lot of money - but no one paid those rates anyway. That is why we created the alternative minimum tax in 1969.

I told you the facts and showed you the figures. Republicans borrow from foreign banks and funnel it directly to the rich in the form of tax cuts. Look at what began to happen in 1982:

The Republicans never have seen a tax cut for corporations and the rich they didn't like but never have quit spending for their pet projects and war machine:

These figures came from the bureau of the debt....they're easily verified:


......................................................Total U S Debt......................................................

09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accommodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32(Bill Clinton Raised Tax Rates On The Rich)
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38 ( Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)((Reagan Slashed Tax Rates To Pre Depression Levels)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00

Look at what began to happen in 1982:

That's when we finally started experiencing some decent economic growth.

These figures came from the bureau of the debt....they're easily verified:

Don't you have any more recent figures?

Horse Shit!!!

It's when this started:

Thanks.
Now do you have more recent debt numbers?
Ones that show Obama added more than $8.4 trillion to the debt. So far.

Over two trillion dollars of Obama's debt went to pay interest on the $12 trillion Reagan/Bushes debt:

You do understand Reagan/Bushes don't you?



...........................................................Total U S Debt...........................................................

09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accommodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32(Bill Clinton Raised Taxes On The Rich)
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38 ( Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)((Reagan Slashed Tax Rates To Pre Depression Levels)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00

Over two trillion dollars of Obama's debt went to pay interest on the $12 trillion Reagan/Bushes debt:

That's a neat trick, considering the debt was $10.6 trillion the day he took office.
Did he not understand that interest would be charged on the debt? He sounds like a moron, if that's the case.