Let's Drop the Partisan Knee-Jerk Reactions and Look at the Ukraine Negotiations Realistically and Fairly

Sorry we are in fact an empire. I dont much care whether you agree or not.

No, we really aren't. An Empire, as my HS History professor described it, is a Nation exercising control over other unrelated nations.

We simply don't do that. We dipped our toe into the Imperialist pond once with the Philippines and immediately decided we didn't like it. (Although it would have been cool if the Philippines became the 51st State. Imagine 1 out of four Americans being Asian.)

Do we have troops in other nations? Yes, at the invitation of their sovereign (usually democratically elected) governments.

Sure, we conquered Germany and Japan, and then we let them on their way.

Why do you hate America?
 
The sad thing about Tucker and Beck wasn't they were fired for the Crazy.

They were fired for costing Rupert money.

(Hey, I just realized that Stewie on the Family Guy calls his teddy bear "Rupert". Coincidence? )
Possibly.
 
That's a stellar analysis!

You should do move reviews, after never watching the movie

Not sure what a "move" review is.

I've seen enough of Tucker and Beck to realize...um, yeah, these guys were nuts.

And so were Maddow and Olbermann, I don't play favorites.

The movie Network predicted this, but Howard Beale seems relatively sedate.
 
No, we really aren't. An Empire, as my HS History professor described it, is a Nation exercising control over other unrelated nations.

We simply don't do that. We dipped our toe into the Imperialist pond once with the Philippines and immediately decided we didn't like it. (Although it would have been cool if the Philippines became the 51st State. Imagine 1 out of four Americans being Asian.)

Do we have troops in other nations? Yes, at the invitation of their sovereign (usually democratically elected) governments.

Sure, we conquered Germany and Japan, and then we let them on their way.

Why do you hate America?


Read the thread. As I've said over and over we aren't the strict definition of an empire that looks like the British or Roman empire.
 
Not sure what a "move" review is.

I've seen enough of Tucker and Beck to realize...um, yeah, these guys were nuts.

And so were Maddow and Olbermann, I don't play favorites.

The movie Network predicted this, but Howard Beale seems relatively sedate.
That’s another very informed opinion!
 
Its been a wreck for decades

The war expense and retaliatory sanctions only make a bad situation worse
Wasn't their economy supposed to collapse like 3 years ago due to the sanctions? I guess my point is that at this point Im going to need a bit more proof than someone just saying it's going to go in the tank. If anything I would imagine that 3 years in their economy has adjusted to the sanctions by now.
 
Wasn't their economy supposed to collapse like 3 years ago due to the sanctions? I guess my point is that at this point Im going to need a bit more proof than someone just saying it's going to go in the tank. If anything I would imagine that 3 years in their economy has adjusted to the sanctions by now.
Actually, Obama said that Russian economy is "in tatters" ten years ago.
 
Wasn't their economy supposed to collapse like 3 years ago due to the sanctions? I guess my point is that at this point Im going to need a bit more proof than someone just saying it's going to go in the tank. If anything I would imagine that 3 years in their economy has adjusted to the sanctions by now.
I was one of those who thought so or hoped so for a while

But I know better now
 
No, we really aren't. An Empire, as my HS History professor described it, is a Nation exercising control over other unrelated nations.

We simply don't do that. We dipped our toe into the Imperialist pond once with the Philippines and immediately decided we didn't like it. (Although it would have been cool if the Philippines became the 51st State. Imagine 1 out of four Americans being Asian.)

Do we have troops in other nations? Yes, at the invitation of their sovereign (usually democratically elected) governments.

Sure, we conquered Germany and Japan, and then we let them on their way.

Why do you hate America?
This guy may have something to say about that.
 
On one side, we have many conservatives accusing Zelensky of rejecting peace and being unreasonable because he wants a permanent peace deal that includes a security guarantee and because he does not want to cede any territory. On another side, we have many liberals accusing Trump of siding with Putin and selling out Ukraine because he is not agreeing to all of Zelensky's terms. Could a realistic, fair assessment be somewhere between these two extremes?

A unilateral U.S. guarantee of Ukraine's security would be virtually de facto NATO membership. It would obligate us to go to war with Russia if Russia invaded Ukraine again. Any future U.S. military intervention in Ukraine would require us to use some NATO nations as staging areas, just as we're doing now only more so. A NATO guarantee of Ukraine's security would be de facto NATO membership. Putin fiercely rejects either option, especially the latter option, as do most average Russians.

Yet, one certainly cannot blame Zelensky for wanting some kind of credible security guarantee, given Putin's track record of violating agreements.

I am not comfortable with Trump's posturing on Ukraine, especially his idiotic statement that Ukraine started the war. However, I recognize this may be a negotiating tactic to allow Putin to save some face while denying him control of most/all of Ukraine. I certainly hope that's what it is. If Trump truly believes that Ukraine started the war, he is horribly misinformed and is peddling Russian propaganda.

I also recognize that there is strong pro-Russian sentiment in three of Ukraine's eastern provinces (Kharkiv, Luhansk, and Donetsk), and that a peace deal may need to include ceding some territory in those provinces.

A few days ago, Trump told England's prime minister that Putin was willing to agree to a European peacekeeping force in Ukraine as part of a peace deal. If that's true, that could be significant, depending on the size and duration of the peacekeeping force.

I want a peace deal that gives Ukraine long-term independence and that permanently halts Russian interference in Ukraine's internal affairs. I would strongly prefer that Ukraine not be required to cede any territory. However, I could accept ceding some territory in the three eastern provinces if doing so permanently ended Russian efforts to topple Ukraine and gave Ukraine long-term independence.

I think it is too early to be forming firm, final opinions about the Ukraine negotiations. We need details about the various peace-deal proposals. Let's see where the negotiations go and what the final terms end up being.

If Trump does end up selling out Ukraine, I will never cease to criticize him for doing so. I have dear friends in Ukraine. But, if Trump ends up preserving Ukraine's long-term independence and puts an end to Russian interference in Ukraine, I will gladly congratulate him for doing so.
Great post.
Hate to break it: you don’t know shit about this.

Sorry.
 
Great post.
Hate to break it: you don’t know shit about this.

Sorry.
Actually, when thinking about it. You do know something.

But here is the thing: you can’t appease Russia. So after all your words the bottom line is that we have to stop Russia. Now.
 
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