Zone1 Let's Debate: Is "Transgender" a Valid Concept based in Reality?

[Seymour Flops]

Where ever you got that definition from isn’t a very reliable or intelligent source.

I agree. But everytime I try to debate someone about males in girls and women's sports their argument is "they should play on the girls' team because they are girls."

“Sex” and “gender” are not the same thing.

Transgenderism isn’t about being “in reality a person of the opposite sex”

So you disagree when someone says that a biological male who "identifies as female" should play on the girls team because they are in fact a girl?

It’s about gender, not sex. Look at the word…… it’s right there

"Gender" has always been a synonym or euphamism for sex, as in biological sex, not sexual activity.

The meanings of words can change over time. But through generally accepted common usage. Word meanings cannot be changed by the mere insistance of a small but vocal and aggressive minority. But it is fair for you and the rest of the minority to propose a change and defend the need for it.

What is your definition of "gender" and why do we need to change the word "gender" from a synonym for sex (or a linguistic construct in some languages), to your proposed definition?

 

[braalian]

"Gender" has always been a synonym or euphamism for sex, as in biological sex, not sexual activity.

Just because many people colloquially use the two words interchangeably does not mean they aren’t two different words with two different meanings.

The meanings of words can change over time.

Yes, and for at least a couple generations now, ‘gender’ and ‘sex’ have not been synonymous.

What is your definition of "gender" and why do we need to change the word "gender" from a synonym for sex

“my” definition? It isn’t my definition. The definition of gender is: the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed.

As opposed to ‘sex’, which is the actual physical, biological aspect, as in “boys have a penis and girls have a vagina”

 

[Seymour Flops]

Just because many people colloquially use the two words interchangeably does not mean they aren’t two different words with two different meanings.

Yes, and for at least a couple generations now, ‘gender’ and ‘sex’ have not been synonymous.

Among a small but vocal and aggressive minority.

“my” definition? It isn’t my definition. The definition of gender is: the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed.

So a female in the fifties who wanted to an engineer was transgender? Until enough females became engineers that it was no longer a socially constructed chracteristic of men?

Males who grew long hair in the sixties were transgender until it caught on with enough boys and men that it could not be said to be a characteristic of women and girls that was socially constructed?

I think that the words or terms for which you are trying to substitude "gender" is "stereotype," or "cultural sex norms."

Since nearly all socially constructed characteristics of women/girls or Men/boys are now by and large acknowledged to be acceptable for either sex/gender does that mean that there is no such thing as transgenders anymore?

English would work really well, if it were used correctly. As in "I am a male, but I have adopted the socially constructed characteristics of women and girls."

That's a mouthful, so if you want to shorten it to "I am transgender," that is fine as long as the word "transgender" does not mean "I'm a woman in reality," which is how transactivists use it. It sounds like you do not, but you would need to tell those transactivists to stop appropriating your correct use of "transgender."

As opposed to ‘sex’, which is the actual physical, biological aspect, as in “boys have a penis and girls have a vagina”

Gender is tied to sex, and it has been for a long time. I understand why the minority wants to blur that distinction and force a change in the definition, but that only works if we meekly go along with it.

We aren't.

Roughly eight-in-ten U.S. adults say there is at least some discrimination against transgender people in our society, and a majority favor laws that would protect transgender individuals from discrimination in jobs, housing and public spaces. At the same time, 60% say a person’s gender is determined by their sex assigned at birth, up from 56% in 2021 and 54% in 2017.

We might have gone along with it, to be honest, if you (your side) had done two things:

1) Left the kids out of it,

2) Avoided the Language and Tone Police approach of "correcting" people who have not adopted the minority's preferred definition.

To the original question: Is a biological male who identifies as a transwoman really a woman?

 

[braalian]

To the original question: Is a biological male who identifies as a transwoman really a woman?

No, in my opinion if you’re born a male, you’re a male.

But I don’t get myself all worked up if some guy feels that he feels like a woman despite having a penis and a Y chromosome. How does that affect my life in any way, shape or form?

 

[Seymour Flops]

No, in my opinion if you’re born a male, you’re a male.

But I don’t get myself all worked up if some guy feels that he feels like a woman despite having a penis and a Y chromosome.

Oh, neither do I. I don't even get worked up when some blue-haired trannie screams at me for calling him "sir" or by his name if I know it, when I intend nothing but respect.

I don't get worked up, but I also don't get intimidated and feel like I have to play along.

How does that affect my life in any way, shape or form?

It doesn't, in that particular example.

Well . . . unless you have women and girl friends and loved ones who are forced to submit to him entering their private spaces and that bothers you. If it doesn't bother you, then it does not affect your life. Just theirs.

You seem like a reasonable guy. If your female loved one comes out of a changing room for swimmers and tell you this guy was stripping naked while they were rushing to pull on their suits and get out of there:

I don't believe that you would say, "Eh . . . that doesn't affect my life in any way."

Also if you were a kid with autism, depression, anxiety, or other mental conditions that are said to be comorbid with gender dysphoria and your school counselors and mental health professionals decide that you are actually transgender and refer you to medical professionals to treat the "wrong body," instead of the mental condition, that would affect your life, no?

 

[Hafar1014]

Gender dysphoria is socially contagious mental illness exploited by the left and enabled by very stupid people exhibiting toxic empathy. Its an act of cruelty and abuse. It also prevents them from the appropriate therapy which is family and individual psychotherapy. This approach has been very effective but its useless when idiots tell them they are normal

 

[JoeB131]

Gender dysphoria is socially contagious mental illness exploited by the left and enabled by very stupid people exhibiting toxic empathy. Its an act of cruelty and abuse. It also prevents them from the appropriate therapy which is family and individual psychotherapy. This approach has been very effective but its useless when idiots tell them they are normal

Toxic Empathy, really?

Well, no one could accuse you of empathy, that's for sure.

If anything has proven a failure, it's conversion therapy. It's why the APA is against it.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Because it was a relationship issue and not a gender identity issue.

That's no reason to say, well, a boy with relationship issue raped the girl in the girl's bathroom. So . . . we should let all boys in the girl's bathroom!

Because it isn't what you are portraying it as. they had a relationship. She decided the best place to break up with his was at their hookup site, and not the school lunch room or a public park. What he did was wrong, but it had nothing to do with his gender identity.

The reason he raped her after gaining access to the girl's bathroom is not relevant to the school of policy of allowing boys in the girl's bathroom.

No evidence he raped the second girl.

From your article.

The reports says that when transferring the student, the district never conducted a threat assessment of the attacker and it should have. The report could not conclude, though, that a threat assessment would have prevented the second attack.

You are misreading that. the fact of the second attack is done in. the article is questioning whether a threat assessment would have prevented the second attack.

having participated in many such assessments, I can tell you that as a matter of fact, no. trhreat assessments do not prevent further attacks.

But there is no doubt that the second attack happened after the district transferred him from the school of the first attack

After much discussion over whether the perpetrator was transgender or wore a skirt to get into the restroom where the first teen was attacked, the report found no evidence that the attacker identified as female or gender fluid. It found no evidence that he wore a skirt or kilt that day, and no witnesses reported seeing him in a girl’s bathroom or trying to get into one.

Again. That is no help to future girls who will be raped by boys allwed into the girl's bathroom

I agree, the district screwed this one up. It had nothing to do with transgender issues.

They're going to keep screwing up though, because of transgender issues.
Any boy in a skirt that walks into the girl's bathroom will not be stopped because teachers would be disciplined for that in louden county.

 

[JoeB131]

That's no reason to say, well, a boy with relationship issue raped the girl in the girl's bathroom. So . . . we should let all boys in the girl's bathroom!

No, just the gender dysphoric ones.

The reason he raped her after gaining access to the girl's bathroom is not relevant to the school of policy of allowing boys in the girl's bathroom.

Exactly. They had no such policy. This couple hooked up in that bathroom because they knew the teachers didn't monitor it.
But no means no, that's the only lesson to be taken away here. If they hooked up in a janitor's closet or a classroom, the same would apply.

(Oh, the second so-called attack was in a classroom.)

You are misreading that. the fact of the second attack is done in. the article is questioning whether a threat assessment would have prevented the second attack.

Actually, what would have prevented the second attack is the second girl realizing if this twit has an ankle monitor, there's probably a reason.

Again. That is no help to future girls who will be raped by boys allwed into the girl's bathroom

I agree. If you had thousands of cases of that happening, I'd look at that

Not just one case you've seriously misrepresented.

 

[Seymour Flops]

No, just the gender dysphoric ones.

Oh, with a doctor's note?

Exactly. They had no such policy. This couple hooked up in that bathroom because they knew the teachers didn't monitor it.

I would say "they need monitors!"

But what is to monitor if boys are allowed to go in anyway? Listen for screams?

But no means no, that's the only lesson to be taken away here. If they hooked up in a janitor's closet or a classroom, the same would apply.

Schools allow children in janitor's closets and empty classrooms? Louden maybe. Most dont. Not even if the kid identifies as a building maintenance staffer.

(Oh, the second so-called attack was in a classroom.

So the wise policy is to not allow atudents in empty classrooms, janitors closets, the bathrooms of the opposite sex, rehearsal rooms intended for one at a time, and other locations where inappropriate behavior would be fostered by lack of supervision.

So often there is conflict between wisdom and catering to mental disorders

Actually, what would have prevented the second attack is the second girl realizing if this twit has an ankle monitor, there's probably a reason.

Blame the child victim.

I agree. If you had thousands of cases of that happening, I'd look at that.

No, you'd find ways to blame the victim for all of them or make it no big deal.

I never misrepresented the case. Your spin did not change the facts I stated.

 

[JoeB131]

No, you'd find ways to blame the victim for all of them or make it no big deal.

I never misrepresented the case. Your spin did not change the facts I stated.

sure you have. You've been lying about this case from the begining.

It's why the father got violent at the town hall, they were laughing him out of the room.

 

[Seymour Flops]

sure you have. You've been lying about this case from the begining.

It's why the father got violent at the town hall, they were laughing him out of the room.

That is far too out of the boundaries of the clean debate zone.

You are welcome back when you're ready to debate correctly.

 

[JoeB131]

That is far too out of the boundaries of the clean debate zone.

You are welcome back when you're ready to debate correctly.

Concession noted.

 

[M14 Shooter]

A transgender person or a person with transgenderism is a person who was born biologically one sex and who is in reality a person of the opposite sex.

Invalid.
If you are born a male, in reality you are a male.
In your imagination, you may be something else.