Let's carry liberal policies to ther conclusion.

[PredFan]

As a classical liberal and absolutely nothing like the special interest group/social liberals of the day, I'd like to go back to pre 1913 laws and tax rates.

Good point, I should change my wording to "progressive". I am very familiar with Classical Liberalism" and agree with almost all of it.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Let's try that shall we?

First off:

We need to identify what the liberals want.

How much taxes on the rich?
How serious are the other items on the wish list for the liberals?
What new regulations?

But one at a time. If the liberals get the tax hikes on the rich that they want, how much taxes will the rich (people over $250k/year) be paying?

What this liberal wants is an investigation by an independent authority for three things: waste, fraud and military spending. If the numbers were revealed and these gross problems corrected, taxes could be lowered across the board for everybody.

Oh, and let me add this: the wealthy would have to actually pay their tax rate of 35% instead of the actual effective tax rate of 14% that they have been paying.

 

[PredFan]

Let's try that shall we?

First off:

We need to identify what the liberals want.

How much taxes on the rich?
How serious are the other items on the wish list for the liberals?
What new regulations?

But one at a time. If the liberals get the tax hikes on the rich that they want, how much taxes will the rich (people over $250k/year) be paying?

have you not been following any of the current debt negotiation? a return to the Clinton era tax rates as well as a return to taking capital gains as normal income would be good places to start. no matter how you want to twist it the wealthy do not pay their fair share when determined by percentage of income. when the top 2% control 85% of the wealth yet pay on average half the rate of a typical middle class family, basic logic and reasoning tells you that this is unfair. to be fair, i believe that the $250k threshold is too low and this should be increased to either $500k or $1M annually. Deductions can remain the same and revenues will rise just as they did under Clinton. (although Clinton did not get capital gains treated as normal income). this has to be coupled with spending cuts and those cuts will have to come from all of the high dollar spending programs including SS, Medicare, Medicaid and Defense. We do not have to gut these programs, but there is enough waste in all of these programs that shooting for a 5-10% reduction in each of the programs should be easily obtainable. These cuts do not need to occur overnight as these would decimate the programs overall. they need to be phased in over the next several years. (say by the end of Obama's second term). during this same time you can look for cuts in other discretionary programs to further help cut the annual deficits. but with the current deficit over $1T it is impossible to have a balanced budget within 1-2 years. the cuts would have to be so dramatic the basic function of government would destroyed. SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Defense and Interest on the debt account for 80% of the current budget. the deficit is currently 1/3rd of the total budget so without substantial cuts to these 4 programs alone you will never be able to balance the budget on spending cuts alone. revenues need to be part of the equation and those revenues will need to come from the wealthy. they have benefited significantly more from the bush era tax cuts than the middle and lower classes. what many people fail to see is that during times of economic boom, ie when the middle class does well, the wealthy actually make more money overall. the stock market is increasing in values and middle class families have more money to purchase goods and services. this leads to more revenues for those at the top. sure they pay a higher percentage of taxes, but with the amount of increased revenues that are generated in the private sector, these additional taxes are more than offset by the increase in revenues and profits.

Thanks for your input. Now we're moving. Let me see if I can get some actual mumbers out of this.

 

[007]

Liberals won't be happy until America turns into North Korea.

You own nothing, it all belongs to the government.
No guns.
No freedom.

Liberals are happy.

I understand the sentiment. That said, liberals here claim that this isn't true. The purpose of this thread is to deal with what the liberals will state that they do want and let's see where that leads us.

You're expecting to get the truth form the liberals on this board Pred?

Good luck with that bro.

But remember, actions speak louder than words.

 

[Katzndogz]

Let's try that shall we?

First off:

We need to identify what the liberals want.

How much taxes on the rich?
How serious are the other items on the wish list for the liberals?
What new regulations?

But one at a time. If the liberals get the tax hikes on the rich that they want, how much taxes will the rich (people over $250k/year) be paying?

What liberals want is what obama wants, which is what his father wanted.

Confiscatory Tax Rate Dreams from my Father - By Lisa Schiffren - The Corner - National Review Online

obama Sr. wrote an article about what liberals want.
The article, called “Problems Facing Our Socialism,” makes the economic case that high taxes are morally and practically good, if the government then uses them to provide for the people. How high should the tax rates be? ”Theoretically,” he wrote, “there is nothing that can stop the government from taxing 100% of income so long as the people get benefits from the government commensurate with their income which is taxed.” Yes, you read it: a 100% tax rate is fine. Obama Sr. continued, ” It is a fallacy to say there is a limit (to tax rates), and it is a fallacy to rely mainly on individual free enterprise to get the savings.” Free enterprise — bad. (He was discussing future government economic development.)

In the paper, Obama Sr. also advocated nationalizing all industry — and most commerce — for racial/nationalist reasons. He wished to confiscate the large scale industries which had been owned and developed by Europeans. And, even more radically, he wished for the government to take away the small businesses that constituted much of the nation’s local economy, because, as in much of East Africa, they were owned by Asians — Indians in particular. He felt it was wrong for Europeans and Asians to benefit from their investments and hard work,

I'm not sure about that. Many liberals I know and many here claim that the european model is ideal and clearly that wasn't enough for Obama Sr.

The European model isn't enough for liberals in Europe any more! They've moved on. What do you think is going on in Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal!

 

[PredFan]

Let's try that shall we?

First off:

We need to identify what the liberals want.

How much taxes on the rich?
How serious are the other items on the wish list for the liberals?
What new regulations?

But one at a time. If the liberals get the tax hikes on the rich that they want, how much taxes will the rich (people over $250k/year) be paying?

What this liberal wants is an investigation by an independent authority for three things: waste, fraud and military spending. If the numbers were revealed and these gross problems corrected, taxes could be lowered across the board for everybody.

Oh, and let me add this: the wealthy would have to actually pay their tax rate of 35% instead of the actual effective tax rate of 14% that they have been paying.

Thanks for the response.

Processing..............
Processing..............

 

[Wry Catcher]

Liberals won't be happy until America turns into North Korea.

You own nothing, it all belongs to the government.
No guns.
No freedom.

Liberals are happy.

I understand the sentiment. That said, liberals here claim that this isn't true. The purpose of this thread is to deal with what the liberals will state that they do want and let's see where that leads us.

It has already lead you to build a straw man and others have already lit a match.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

As a classical liberal and absolutely nothing like the special interest group/social liberals of the day, I'd like to go back to pre 1913 laws and tax rates.

Ah, as in before the individual income tax was ratified by the 16th Amendment.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

As a classical liberal and absolutely nothing like the special interest group/social liberals of the day, I'd like to go back to pre 1913 laws and tax rates.

Good point, I should change my wording to "progressive". I am very familiar with Classical Liberalism" and agree with almost all of it.

I think returning to the income tax rates of 1910 would be ideal for everyone. I also think that returning to this time in most instances of law, especially the federal reserve charter, would be the best case. Of course it is an absolute pipe dream. No government gives up power it accumulates.

 

[PredFan]

Liberals won't be happy until America turns into North Korea.

You own nothing, it all belongs to the government.
No guns.
No freedom.

Liberals are happy.

I understand the sentiment. That said, liberals here claim that this isn't true. The purpose of this thread is to deal with what the liberals will state that they do want and let's see where that leads us.

You're expecting to get the truth form the liberals on this board Pred?

Good luck with that bro.

But remember, actions speak louder than words.

I know they do but for the purposes of this thread I'll take what the generally accepted notion is. We could go on for days and days along those lines bro.

 

[007]

If you support him, and you voted for him, then this is exactly what you want...

 

[PredFan]

As a classical liberal and absolutely nothing like the special interest group/social liberals of the day, I'd like to go back to pre 1913 laws and tax rates.

Good point, I should change my wording to "progressive". I am very familiar with Classical Liberalism" and agree with almost all of it.

I think returning to the income tax rates of 1910 would be ideal for everyone. I also think that returning to this time in most instances of law, especially the federal reserve charter, would be the best case. Of course it is an absolute pipe dream. No government gives up power it accumulates.

But you aren't a progressive my friend. Stick around though, your input is valued.

 

[007]

This is the man the liberals support, and they support his agenda...

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Liberals won't be happy until America turns into North Korea.

You own nothing, it all belongs to the government.
No guns.
No freedom.

Liberals are happy.

That's right. Finally somebody gets to the bottom line and the real heart of the liberal agenda. Yes, we all want to live in camps and work like this:

It's my dream to eat rotted cabbage and dirty water for every meal.

I want to have my baby in a dirty, lice-ridden bed in the dead of winter with no heat or blankets.

You've nailed it. You are my hero.

 

[PredFan]

Post edited by me for brevity....

a return to the Clinton era tax rates as well as a return to taking capital gains as normal income would be good places to start.

Check.

i believe that the $250k threshold is too low and this should be increased to either $500k or $1M annually. Deductions can remain the same and revenues will rise just as they did under Clinton. (although Clinton did not get capital gains treated as normal income).

Check.

this has to be coupled with spending cuts and those cuts will have to come from all of the high dollar spending programs including SS, Medicare, Medicaid and Defense. We do not have to gut these programs, but there is enough waste in all of these programs that shooting for a 5-10% reduction in each of the programs should be easily obtainable. These cuts do not need to occur overnight as these would decimate the programs overall. they need to be phased in over the next several years. (say by the end of Obama's second term).

Check.

So in a nutshell, you want the Clinton era tax rates, capital gains treated as income, raise the entry level of taxes for the rich from $250k to at least $500k, and spending cuts to SS, Medicaid, Medicare, and defense? Do I have that right?

 

[Moonglow]

Liberals won't be happy until America turns into North Korea.

You own nothing, it all belongs to the government.
No guns.
No freedom.

Liberals are happy.

That's right. Finally somebody gets to the bottom line and the real heart of the liberal agenda. Yes, we all want to live in camps and work like this:

It's my dream to eat rotted cabbage and dirty water for every meal.

I want to have my baby in a dirty, lice-ridden bed in the dead of winter with no heat or blankets.

You've nailed it. You are my hero.

at least you don't have to worry about the mortgage.

 

[Wry Catcher]

What do liberals want? I suppose many of these things would please most Democrats:

01. An effective and affordable system of health care;

02. Clean air and clean water;

03. Effective Campaign Finance Reform (the repeal of CU v. FEC);

04. Reasonable gun control;

05. Safe food;

06. Equal rights for all citizens;

07. Sound fiscal policies;

08. Tax reform;

09. a committment to Social Security;

10. An end to ideology and pargmatic solutions to long term problems.

 

[PredFan]

Liberals won't be happy until America turns into North Korea.

You own nothing, it all belongs to the government.
No guns.
No freedom.

Liberals are happy.

I understand the sentiment. That said, liberals here claim that this isn't true. The purpose of this thread is to deal with what the liberals will state that they do want and let's see where that leads us.

It has already lead you to build a straw man and others have already lit a match.

Feel free to leave the thread.

 

[Katzndogz]

Liberals won't be happy until America turns into North Korea.

You own nothing, it all belongs to the government.
No guns.
No freedom.

Liberals are happy.

That's right. Finally somebody gets to the bottom line and the real heart of the liberal agenda. Yes, we all want to live in camps and work like this:

It's my dream to eat rotted cabbage and dirty water for every meal.

I want to have my baby in a dirty, lice-ridden bed in the dead of winter with no heat or blankets.

You've nailed it. You are my hero.

Whether you want it or not, that's the end result.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

This is the man the liberals support, and they support his agenda...

Oh, you forgot this one. It came out four years ago, even though Obama failed the James Brady Gun Control policy test....How many of your guns has Obama gotten so far, honey?