Lets apologize

[JakeStarkey]

Let history inform you about China's influence on North Korea. North Korea came across the border in June 1950 despite the wishes of the USSR and Red China. Go read up on it. President Rhee of the South opened he Tiger Cages and released the POWs at war's end regardless of the U.S.and the U.N. having agreed to repatriation.

What I am stating here is that Koreans on either side really don't give a darnn what anyone else thinks about how their country should be run. Any of us who have served in Korea will tell you that those folks, on either side of the DMZ, intend to reunify that country under their particular brand of government and society.

Yeah, those bombs in NK are important in the region there, and it is silly to think they aren't.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Right.

Because surely possessing one nuclear bomb this day and age = wealthy and a real threat.

Don't be silly.

If the people that have the bomb are CRAZY, yes it is a threat.

They are under China's thumb and China wants to win it all without firing a shot. No. Korea may be pain in the ass sometimes but they aren't going to launch nukes any time soon.

How about a Japan that was never actually beaten in WW2? One that still had Bushido as their main spiritual military and an unrepentant Emperor and Government? One bent on revenge, where we never used an atomic bomb so there were no examples of what would happen?

 

[JakeStarkey]

What is wrong? The sites are used to bash the US. The sponsors at those cites make the claim that the bombs never needed to be dropped. That the US was racist for dropping them. They ignore the fact they started the war and then when they lost refused to surrender, that they planned mass human wave bamboo spear attacks with civilians on any invasion that took place. That the bombs actually saved millions of lives. That it was a WAR. And the bombs were dropped on MILITARY Targets.

This President is sending our Ambassador to a site who's sole purpose is to attack the US.

A city is a military target? The aiming point in Hiroshima was the Aioi Bridge

Yes as a matter of fact. Cities in WW2 were all valid targets. In this case, it had production facilities and several Army Headquarters were troops were being marshaled for the defense of the Island. Further since the Japanese intended to arm all civilians with bamboo spears and mass human wave attack any landing, that makes civilians military targets as well.

Cities, unfortunately, were military targets as well as terror targets against industry and civilians in WWII. General LeMay told later Secretary of Defense McNamara, who was on the general's staff, that if the other side won the war that they in the USAF would be tried for war crimes.

You who have never served have no earthly idea what you are talking about concerning these matters.

 

[Article 15]

If the people that have the bomb are CRAZY, yes it is a threat.

They are under China's thumb and China wants to win it all without firing a shot. No. Korea may be pain in the ass sometimes but they aren't going to launch nukes any time soon.

How about a Japan that was never actually beaten in WW2? One that still had Bushido as their main spiritual military and an unrepentant Emperor and Government? One bent on revenge, where we never used an atomic bomb so there were no examples of what would happen?

My guess is that Japan would resemble North Korea today.

 

[Bfgrn]

What is wrong? The sites are used to bash the US. The sponsors at those cites make the claim that the bombs never needed to be dropped. That the US was racist for dropping them. They ignore the fact they started the war and then when they lost refused to surrender, that they planned mass human wave bamboo spear attacks with civilians on any invasion that took place. That the bombs actually saved millions of lives. That it was a WAR. And the bombs were dropped on MILITARY Targets.

This President is sending our Ambassador to a site who's sole purpose is to attack the US.

A city is a military target? The aiming point in Hiroshima was the Aioi Bridge

Yes as a matter of fact. Cities in WW2 were all valid targets. In this case, it had production facilities and several Army Headquarters were troops were being marshaled for the defense of the Island. Further since the Japanese intended to arm all civilians with bamboo spears and mass human wave attack any landing, that makes civilians military targets as well.

Sarge, you need to moderate your thirst for blood. Yes, the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably saved lives of American soldiers and Japanese citizens compared to an invasion of the mainland. But it did not save the lives of 130,000 human beings, mostly civilian women and children that day. The lucky one were vaporized, leaving ONLY their shadows. The unlucky suffered the skin burned off their bodies before they died. Others survived only to die a painful death from radiation poisoning.

The commemoration of those horrible events is not to apologize, it to honor the human beings that perished and to remind mankind why war and the use of nuclear weapons must be avoided.

Japan has become a good friend and ally. Let's celebrate a good ending to the story.

 

[Article 15]

Let history inform you about China's influence on North Korea. North Korea came across the border in June 1950 despite the wishes of the USSR and Red China. Go read up on it. President Rhee of the South opened he Tiger Cages and released the POWs at war's end regardless of the U.S.and the U.N. having agreed to repatriation.

What I am stating here is that Koreans on either side really don't give a darnn what anyone else thinks about how their country should be run. Any of us who have served in Korea will tell you that those folks, on either side of the DMZ, intend to reunify that country under their particular brand of government and society.

Yeah, those bombs in NK are important in the region there, and it is silly to think they aren't.

Ok

That was 1950 ... it's 2010 now.

The Koreans can have their own issues amongst themselves but as far as North Korea being a global threat or a threat to us? That's bunch of malarkey.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Don't dismiss history; you know better, A15. North Korea is a threat with global implications, and it reflects an ideological naivete that it could be anything else.

Six players are involved: North and South Korea, China, Russia, Japan, and the U.S. Four of those players have nuke. If North Korea invades South Korea, nukes Seoul or tries to nuke Japan, the major powers are going to destroy North Korea. That puts 25 million screaming North Koreans trying to cross the Yalu into Red China who does not want them.

The situation has global issues of war and humanitarianism.

 

[Article 15]

Don't dismiss history; you know better, A15. North Korea is a threat with global implications, and it reflects an ideological naivete that it could be anything else.

Six players are involved: North and South Korea, China, Russia, Japan, and the U.S. Four of those players have nuke. If North Korea invades South Korea, nukes Seoul or tries to nuke Japan, the major powers are going to destroy North Korea. That puts 25 million screaming North Koreans trying to cross the Yalu into Red China who does not want them.

The situation has global issues of war and humanitarianism.

When you add it all together you get what we have now. Decades of "peace" and North Korea only piping up every now and again to remind everyone they are still there. I'm a fan of MAD and a people's desire for self preservation so I have little reason to believe that North Korea will use a nuke. Nobody wants a nuclear war in that region, including the North Koreans, and especially the Chinese. Nobody.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I pray you are right, but you are basing your position on the sanity of the North Korean leadership. If that leadership feels threatened enough to believe the leaders will be removed from power, the state will go to war.

 

[Foxfyre]

Let history inform you about China's influence on North Korea. North Korea came across the border in June 1950 despite the wishes of the USSR and Red China. Go read up on it. President Rhee of the South opened he Tiger Cages and released the POWs at war's end regardless of the U.S.and the U.N. having agreed to repatriation.

What I am stating here is that Koreans on either side really don't give a darnn what anyone else thinks about how their country should be run. Any of us who have served in Korea will tell you that those folks, on either side of the DMZ, intend to reunify that country under their particular brand of government and society.

Yeah, those bombs in NK are important in the region there, and it is silly to think they aren't.

Ok

That was 1950 ... it's 2010 now.

The Koreans can have their own issues amongst themselves but as far as North Korea being a global threat or a threat to us? That's bunch of malarkey.

In 2001, if somebody had told you that a poorly understood and little known bunch of radical Islamic extremists based in Afghanistan would create the mayhem that occurred on 9/11, that no doubt would have been dismissed as a bunch of malarkey too. But it happened.

Adolph Hitler would not have been able to create the world havoc that he did if the world had not underestimated his intentions and ambitions.

Japan would never have been so successful in bombing Pearl Harbor if their intentions had not been underestimated by U.S. high command.

History should teach us to be wary of ambitions and intentions of mad men, most especially those in possession of nuclear weapons. In a world as interconnected as ours now is, and with a global economy such as we now have, and with the alliances in place that now exist, nobody has to attack the USA directly in order to directly involve us.

 

[mudwhistle]

A city is a military target? The aiming point in Hiroshima was the Aioi Bridge

Yes as a matter of fact. Cities in WW2 were all valid targets. In this case, it had production facilities and several Army Headquarters were troops were being marshaled for the defense of the Island. Further since the Japanese intended to arm all civilians with bamboo spears and mass human wave attack any landing, that makes civilians military targets as well.

Sarge, you need to moderate your thirst for blood. Yes, the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably saved lives of American soldiers and Japanese citizens compared to an invasion of the mainland. But it did not save the lives of 130,000 human beings, mostly civilian women and children that day. The lucky one were vaporized, leaving ONLY their shadows. The unlucky suffered the skin burned off their bodies before they died. Others survived only to die a painful death from radiation poisoning.

The commemoration of those horrible events is not to apologize, it to honor the human beings that perished and to remind mankind why war and the use of nuclear weapons must be avoided.

Japan has become a good friend and ally. Let's celebrate a good ending to the story.

But asking for forgiveness?????

Should the Japanese ask for forgiveness for their Imperialist aggressions? You bet.

Maybe if they ask for forgiveness for their invasions of Australia, Manchuria, Indonesia, Korea, China, and every little island in the Pacific they could get their hands on. How bout apologizing for murdering millions of innocent men, women, and children in the Philippines and elsewhere. How bout apologizing for the Batan Death March for starters.

 

[Article 15]

Let history inform you about China's influence on North Korea. North Korea came across the border in June 1950 despite the wishes of the USSR and Red China. Go read up on it. President Rhee of the South opened he Tiger Cages and released the POWs at war's end regardless of the U.S.and the U.N. having agreed to repatriation.

What I am stating here is that Koreans on either side really don't give a darnn what anyone else thinks about how their country should be run. Any of us who have served in Korea will tell you that those folks, on either side of the DMZ, intend to reunify that country under their particular brand of government and society.

Yeah, those bombs in NK are important in the region there, and it is silly to think they aren't.

Ok

That was 1950 ... it's 2010 now.

The Koreans can have their own issues amongst themselves but as far as North Korea being a global threat or a threat to us? That's bunch of malarkey.

In 2001, if somebody had told you that a poorly understood and little known bunch of radical Islamic extremists based in Afghanistan would create the mayhem that occurred on 9/11, that no doubt would have been dismissed as a bunch of malarkey too. But it happened.

Adolph Hitler would not have been able to create the world havoc that he did if the world had not underestimated his intentions and ambitions.

Japan would never have been so successful in bombing Pearl Harbor if their intentions had not been underestimated by U.S. high command.

History should teach us to be wary of ambitions and intentions of mad men, most especially those in possession of nuclear weapons. In a world as interconnected as ours now is, and with a global economy such as we now have, and with the alliances in place that now exist, nobody has to attack the USA directly in order to directly involve us.

Yes, there are lessons to be learned in history.

My opinion on the threat North Korea poses remains unchanged.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Everybody put your fauxrage away....the US isn't apologizing for anything in regards to the atomic bombs dropped on Japan.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Come on, radio man, the faxurage righties want to make points that somehow the sending of the delegation is "apologetic", and the fauxrage lefties believe the bombs were war crimes. Both positions, when the facts are examined, fail.

 

[Bfgrn]

Yes as a matter of fact. Cities in WW2 were all valid targets. In this case, it had production facilities and several Army Headquarters were troops were being marshaled for the defense of the Island. Further since the Japanese intended to arm all civilians with bamboo spears and mass human wave attack any landing, that makes civilians military targets as well.

Sarge, you need to moderate your thirst for blood. Yes, the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably saved lives of American soldiers and Japanese citizens compared to an invasion of the mainland. But it did not save the lives of 130,000 human beings, mostly civilian women and children that day. The lucky one were vaporized, leaving ONLY their shadows. The unlucky suffered the skin burned off their bodies before they died. Others survived only to die a painful death from radiation poisoning.

The commemoration of those horrible events is not to apologize, it to honor the human beings that perished and to remind mankind why war and the use of nuclear weapons must be avoided.

Japan has become a good friend and ally. Let's celebrate a good ending to the story.

But asking for forgiveness?????

Should the Japanese ask for forgiveness for their Imperialist aggressions? You bet.

Maybe if they ask for forgiveness for their invasions of Australia, Manchuria, Indonesia, Korea, China, and every little island in the Pacific they could get their hands on. How bout apologizing for murdering millions of innocent men, women, and children in the Philippines and elsewhere. How bout apologizing for the Batan Death March for starters.

Here's what you need to do...READ the article linked in the OP, then bring me back anything that talks about, hints about or refers to 'asking for forgiveness'... just because pea brain Sarge titled the thread ' Lets apologize' doesn't mean it has anything to do with the US sending a delegation to Hiroshima memorial.

Get back to me...OK?

 

[Yukon.]

For the record, neither nuking Japan nor an invasion of Japan was necessary to end the war.

Good point. We could have surrendered. That would have ended the war immediately.

Japan was willing to end hostilities before we dropped the bomb.

"I was against it on two counts. First, the Japanese were ready to surrender, and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing. Second, I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

You are a LIAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[elvis]

For the record, neither nuking Japan nor an invasion of Japan was necessary to end the war.

Good point. We could have surrendered. That would have ended the war immediately.

Japan was willing to end hostilities before we dropped the bomb.

"I was against it on two counts. First, the Japanese were ready to surrender, and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing. Second, I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

You are too stupid for words.

 

[Liberty]

The United States for the first time in American history since WWII sent an ambassador to Japan to memorialize the bombing of Hiroshima. Now, here is something that really bothers me. There has been nothing but a combination of historical illiteracy and moral bankruptcy going on about this. Lets go through how we got into WWII with Japan.

We were originally trading partners with Japan for decades. Then Japan decides to invade China, known as the nanking massacre. Japan invades Indochina and literally starts massacring the entire population. It was also known as the "rape of nanking." why was it called this? Because they literally had systematic gang rapes of THOUSANDS of people. The people that were there that witnessed this estimated there were about a thousand rapes a night. It was one of the most discusting atrocities in world history.

They massacred the population, they tortured the people to death. It made the Sudan and Rowanda look like a girls' lacrosse game. It was absolutely sickening. So the United States decided: You know what? We are not going to facilitate any more of these invasions; any more of these massacres. So the United States put up an embargo with Japan to encourage them to stop the war with China.

Then Japan started negotiating with the United States to lift the embargo and the United States said we will lift the embargo if you stop these invasions,s, massacres, and wars. Before the negotiations could end, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and then goes and invades MORE islands. This brings the United States into this war with Japan and it was a brutal war along the pacific islands. Then, in order to end this war the United States realized it would actually have to invade Japan (known as "operatoin downfall" and "x-day"). It would have to invade Japan for the reason that the Japanese were not going to surrender.

So Japan actually trained its' men, its' women and children to fight with bamboo sticks until the end. They were not going to surrender in any instance. So to end the war the US realized they would have to invade Japan and kill every man, woman, and child there because the Japanese were not going to surrender and simply continue the war.

So, then we found out that we had the Atomic Bomb and we decided you know what? We're not going to invade Japan because it would simply be a massacre and not only that, a lot of Americans would get killed along the way. So we dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Then the soviet union declared war on Japan from the north and Japan finally surrendered.

That is how it happened. They always say you can't compare any country to nazi germany. You can absolutely compare imperialist Japan with the nazis. Why? Because they were a racist civilization that believed that their race was superior to all the other asian nations and that justified all of the massacres and killings. And they were racially superior to Americans because they thought America would never have the resolve to attack Japan. Or, never have the resolve to actually fight Japan because America was a diverse nation while Japan was a homogeneous society.

So, this nonsense that we should start memorializing Hiroshima and make America look like the bad guy because we dropped the bomb is absurd. All of the total deaths from Hiroshima are much less than what they would have been if the United States had actually invaded Japan which would have been required to end the war.

Nobody seems to talk about the massacre or rape of nanking. It's a combination of moral bankruptcy and historic illiteracy. It seems like every day everyone is talking about in school this anti-american stuff or the peoples' history of the united states from howard zinn or noam chomsky or a fake history of the United States that is simply not true. The real history is that Japan started this war and the United States didn't even want to be a part of it. We simply wanted to be trading partners with Japan and Japan left us no choice. We took every option possible and ended up dropping the bombs.

And now the United States is sending ambassadors to Japan...to what? To appologize for the bombing of Japan? It's abject nonsense and historical illiteracy.

 

[Modbert]

Threads Merged

 

[Liberty]

Threads Merged

another nazi mod acting all nazi-like. i remember when this board wasn't controlled by nazis. it was good times.