Let the nation default?

[Katzndogz]

No but we can hang Obama for treason if he defaults on the debt. By law the debt gets paid from the receipts. There is no reason to default on our debts, we don't need to borrow any more money, the feds will have to learn to do more with less and stop crying about it.

By God I am here to say thanks to JRK for SHARING his stupidity. Again. Thanks jrk.

Fuk you think that the President controls the governments purse strings. Why don't you show all where in the COTUS it says the President can do what you say.

Sure no problem. The 14th Amendment states, "the validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law shall not be questioned." This makes it illegal for each branch to default.

Perry v. the United States, affirmed the fundamental principle that Congress may not “alter or destroy” debts already incurred.

The president has emergency powers, to direct funds where needed under the "general welfare clause" the "necessary and proper clause" and "the commerce clause."

Any other questions?

No one is questioning the validity of the existing debt. Just the presidential authority to unilaterally increase that debt. He has none. The debt can only be increased by Congress. The presidunce has limited power to direct funds where needed. He has the power to direct discretionary funds to where they are needed, not funds that have been previously allocated. This was the excuse that obama himself used when he refused to prioritize necessary spending and divert funds from unnecessary spending to necessary spending as a result of the sequester.

 

[Redfish]

the USA will not default on its debt. there is plenty of monthly income to pay the interest on the debt. Debt service comes first. something else may have to be cut, but the country will not default on its debt

that is nothing but a dem/lib scare tactic, i.e. its bullshit.

 

[Steven_R]

something else may have to be cut,

And right here is the problem. Nobody wants to give up their piece of the pie. Cuts always have to come from some other program, some other district, some other department, but never mine.

 

[Katzndogz]

obama has dug in his heels and will not negotiate. His trip to Asia has been cancelled leaving his schedule empty and he will still not negotiate. Rather than have a Senate vote, Harry Reid shut the senate down. Maybe a threat by China to take action will force obama to the table.

Get your fiscal house in order: China warns US as Asia's expresses concern for $1.3tn of investments - Americas - World - The Independent

If China is that concerned, they should have plans in place to come in to the United States and take action themselves.

 

[Contumacious]

[

No one is questioning the validity of the existing debt. .

HUH?

I am.

Would you have demanded that black South Carolineans pay for the costs of the civil war?

Would you have demanded that Jews pay taxes for the costs incurred by Nazi Germany to gas and incinerate them?

Why then would you demand that I pay the costs of financing the welfare/warfare state?

.

 

[Redfish]

something else may have to be cut,

And right here is the problem. Nobody wants to give up their piece of the pie. Cuts always have to come from some other program, some other district, some other department, but never mine.

there is an easy solution--------cut everything by the same %. everything, every govt program.

its what a family or a business would do, spread the pain equally.

 

[boedicca]

The interest on the debt is less than $20B per month on average.

The way the Feds spend money, that's a drop in the bucket.

 

[birddog]

something else may have to be cut,

And right here is the problem. Nobody wants to give up their piece of the pie. Cuts always have to come from some other program, some other district, some other department, but never mine.

there is an easy solution--------cut everything by the same %. everything, every govt program.

its what a family or a business would do, spread the pain equally.

I have often said, cut spending per capita to 2008 levels. Problem solved.

 

[RKMBrown]

By God I am here to say thanks to JRK for SHARING his stupidity. Again. Thanks jrk.

Fuk you think that the President controls the governments purse strings. Why don't you show all where in the COTUS it says the President can do what you say.

Sure no problem. The 14th Amendment states, "the validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law shall not be questioned." This makes it illegal for each branch to default.

Perry v. the United States, affirmed the fundamental principle that Congress may not “alter or destroy” debts already incurred.

The president has emergency powers, to direct funds where needed under the "general welfare clause" the "necessary and proper clause" and "the commerce clause."

Any other questions?

No one is questioning the validity of the existing debt. Just the presidential authority to unilaterally increase that debt. He has none. The debt can only be increased by Congress. The presidunce has limited power to direct funds where needed. He has the power to direct discretionary funds to where they are needed, not funds that have been previously allocated. This was the excuse that obama himself used when he refused to prioritize necessary spending and divert funds from unnecessary spending to necessary spending as a result of the sequester.

Zeke was questioning the validity of the debt, and is apparently unawares to the fact that the president can in fact redirect discretionary funds.

I find it odd that 87% of the spending is "necessary." I suppose if that is true, then given that we don't have enough incoming for the "necessary" spending the president may in fact have to raise the debt ceiling just to pay for the 87%.

 

[Redfish]

Sure no problem. The 14th Amendment states, "the validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law shall not be questioned." This makes it illegal for each branch to default.

Perry v. the United States, affirmed the fundamental principle that Congress may not “alter or destroy” debts already incurred.

The president has emergency powers, to direct funds where needed under the "general welfare clause" the "necessary and proper clause" and "the commerce clause."

Any other questions?

No one is questioning the validity of the existing debt. Just the presidential authority to unilaterally increase that debt. He has none. The debt can only be increased by Congress. The presidunce has limited power to direct funds where needed. He has the power to direct discretionary funds to where they are needed, not funds that have been previously allocated. This was the excuse that obama himself used when he refused to prioritize necessary spending and divert funds from unnecessary spending to necessary spending as a result of the sequester.

Zeke was questioning the validity of the debt, and is apparently unawares to the fact that the president can in fact redirect discretionary funds.

I find it odd that 87% of the spending is "necessary." I suppose if that is true, then given that we don't have enough incoming for the "necessary" spending the president may in fact have to raise the debt ceiling just to pay for the 87%.

No, thats not the way it works. nothing can be spent until congress passes an authorization and appropriation bill. those bills set aside the money for the things included in the bills.

an increase to the debt limit would be for new spending, not previously authorized spending.

 

[KissMy]

FYI pC4 of the WSJ today titled "Money managers on market: why worry?" No one thinks a deal won't get done. And as I type this, a money manager on cnbc is saying the same thing.

Everybody is drinking their own Kool-Aid & digging their heels in. They can't walk away now & look weak.

Ted Cruz fired up the Republican base with the Filibuster / Shutdown. Now Speaker Boehner is a Tea Party believer.

Populist were against bank bailouts & Paulson went along with that. Wallstreet didn't believe Paulson would not save Leahman, but he showed them.

Obama is not up for any more elections & he is not dealing with any more terrorist.

This is going to be one hell of a ride.

 

[RKMBrown]

No one is questioning the validity of the existing debt. Just the presidential authority to unilaterally increase that debt. He has none. The debt can only be increased by Congress. The presidunce has limited power to direct funds where needed. He has the power to direct discretionary funds to where they are needed, not funds that have been previously allocated. This was the excuse that obama himself used when he refused to prioritize necessary spending and divert funds from unnecessary spending to necessary spending as a result of the sequester.

Zeke was questioning the validity of the debt, and is apparently unawares to the fact that the president can in fact redirect discretionary funds.

I find it odd that 87% of the spending is "necessary." I suppose if that is true, then given that we don't have enough incoming for the "necessary" spending the president may in fact have to raise the debt ceiling just to pay for the 87%.

No, thats not the way it works. nothing can be spent until congress passes an authorization and appropriation bill. those bills set aside the money for the things included in the bills.

an increase to the debt limit would be for new spending, not previously authorized spending.

Wrong. But thanks for trying.

 

[RKMBrown]

FYI pC4 of the WSJ today titled "Money managers on market: why worry?" No one thinks a deal won't get done. And as I type this, a money manager on cnbc is saying the same thing.

Everybody is drinking their own Kool-Aid & digging their heels in. They can't walk away now & look weak.

Ted Cruz fired up the Republican base with the Filibuster / Shutdown. Now Speaker Boehner is a Tea Party believer.

Populist were against bank bailouts & Paulson went along with that. Wallstreet didn't believe Paulson would not save Leahman, but he showed them.

Obama is not up for any more elections & he is not dealing with any more terrorist.

This is going to be one hell of a ride.

Eh.. it's just negotiating. Most people are just not used to negotiations.

 

[KissMy]

The interest on the debt is less than $20B per month on average.

The way the Feds spend money, that's a drop in the bucket.

More bills have to be paid than interest on debt. GE is a leveraged company just like a bank & has huge government contracts that they outlaid money to fulfill. There is also creditor principal & SS trust fund is their biggest creditor. SS, Medicare & Medicaid comes from that trust-fund & they are a creditor that will have to be paid. Things will go bad more rapidly as time goes on.

 

[KissMy]

FYI pC4 of the WSJ today titled "Money managers on market: why worry?" No one thinks a deal won't get done. And as I type this, a money manager on cnbc is saying the same thing.

Everybody is drinking their own Kool-Aid & digging their heels in. They can't walk away now & look weak.

Ted Cruz fired up the Republican base with the Filibuster / Shutdown. Now Speaker Boehner is a Tea Party believer.

Populist were against bank bailouts & Paulson went along with that. Wallstreet didn't believe Paulson would not save Leahman, but he showed them.

Obama is not up for any more elections & he is not dealing with any more terrorist.

This is going to be one hell of a ride.

Eh.. it's just negotiating. Most people are just not used to negotiations.

At a minimum we are crossing the Friday the 18th debt limit default deadline. They know markets are closed until Monday & figure they will use up that time for sure.

 

[Katzndogz]

[

No one is questioning the validity of the existing debt. .

HUH?

I am.

Would you have demanded that black South Carolineans pay for the costs of the civil war?

Would you have demanded that Jews pay taxes for the costs incurred by Nazi Germany to gas and incinerate them?

Why then would you demand that I pay the costs of financing the welfare/warfare state?

.

The just debts of the United States are the just debts. If you do not want to pay the costs of financing the welfare state, vote for people who will not pay for a welfare state. That's how it works. Did the German people want to see their economy crash because of the debt owed to Europe by the Weimar Republic? No. But that was a just debt (It was never paid by the way). If South Carolina owed money to the Federal Government for the costs of the civil war,that's a debt of ALL citizens, black and white. All must pay or move to North Carolina, or vote only for candidates who would oppose the debt.

This is a base controversy going to the foundations of the vote and the effect that vote has. Vote only for candidates that oppose expansion of the welfare state. Encourage others to do so. But the validity of the debt already owed cannot be questioned.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Having sold everything yesterday, I find it mesmerizing to watch the DOW in a freefall this morning.

I almost dislocated my arm, patting myself on the back a few minutes ago....

 

[KissMy]

Having sold everything yesterday, I find it mesmerizing to watch the DOW in a freefall this morning.

I almost dislocated my arm, patting myself on the back a few minutes ago....

Interest rates are climbing rapidly now. The market is slowly waking up to the idiots in the capital.

 

[Redfish]

Zeke was questioning the validity of the debt, and is apparently unawares to the fact that the president can in fact redirect discretionary funds.

I find it odd that 87% of the spending is "necessary." I suppose if that is true, then given that we don't have enough incoming for the "necessary" spending the president may in fact have to raise the debt ceiling just to pay for the 87%.

No, thats not the way it works. nothing can be spent until congress passes an authorization and appropriation bill. those bills set aside the money for the things included in the bills.

an increase to the debt limit would be for new spending, not previously authorized spending.

Wrong. But thanks for trying.

NO, I am not wrong, I spent over 40 years dealing with govt funding. I know precisely how it works.

No govt money can be spent until the project or program is authorized and the money appropriated for it. congress cannot appropriate money they don't yet have.

each appropriation is identified by a line of accounting which used to be called a zipper sheet. It means that money has been set aside and cannot be used for anything else.

Some programs use multi year funding and require an annual appropriation.

The problem is that since obozo has never allowed a budget to be put in place, he is just spending whatever he wants and ignoring the fiscal rules of the govt.

 

[Redfish]

Having sold everything yesterday, I find it mesmerizing to watch the DOW in a freefall this morning.

I almost dislocated my arm, patting myself on the back a few minutes ago....

I am buying. when selling panic begins, its the time to buy.

so you sold and now have cash, do you think that is going to appreciate when the govt is borrowing 40 cents of every dollar it spends?