Let the nation default?

[TooTall]

If someone calls you and threatens to ruin your credit, if you don't do what they want you to do, they can be arrested for extortion.

So can the FBI arrest House Republicans for extortion?

No but we can hang Obama for treason if he defaults on the debt. By law the debt gets paid from the receipts. There is no reason to default on our debts, we don't need to borrow any more money, the feds will have to learn to do more with less and stop crying about it.

By God I am here to say thanks to JRK for SHARING his stupidity. Again. Thanks jrk.

Fuk you think that the President controls the governments purse strings. Why don't you show all where in the COTUS it says the President can do what you say.

Who is JRK?

 

[zeke]

Oops RKM Brown made that stupid comment. And I said JRK. What difference does it make. When you get to that level of stupid, whatever you are called is meaningless.

But I do like to admit when I make a mistake.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Oops RKM Brown made that stupid comment. And I said JRK. What difference does it make. When you get to that level of stupid, whatever you are called is meaningless.

But I do like to admit when I make a mistake.

<< You


...Yes indeed, the honorable thing to do...
.
.
.

 

[Lumpy 1]

The US should just print $15 trillion dollars and pay everyone back.



Please send Nobel Prize to Canada. They're cool.

soon to be freezing...


btw..they would if they could..

 

[Contumacious]

If someone calls you and threatens to ruin your credit, if you don't do what they want you to do, they can be arrested for extortion.

So can the FBI arrest House Republicans for extortion?

Excuse me Dingle Berry, why should I be tax to pay or be bound for the expenses incurred by the welfare/warfare state when I was never consulted nor approved such expenses?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

.

 

[Hoffstra]

No but we can hang Obama for treason if he defaults on the debt....

no trial? no jury?

sounds like Fascism.

 

[kaz]

If the default on the debt occurred, and it dragged out, I believe the results could be catastrophic. It wouldn't be for the first few days or weeks as the market believes the parties will eventually come to a deal. But, when they suddenly come to realize interest isn't being paid, you could have a repeat of Lehman. The Fed would them get involved in an even bigger way. US Treasury securities are the lynchpin of the global financial system.

But maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

The market generally acts in the reverse of what you describe, they react then calm down. They don't generally stay calm then react. It's because investors expect risk adjusted returns, it's the risk part of the equation.

BTW, people who operate in markets also follow the news.

The market will react in waves. First it will be from fear & shock. Then a missed payment will cause a leveraged business or bank to fail. That leverage will amplify ripples as they move through every market in the planet. Bank runs & stock selling will destroy the global economy.

Again, that almost never happens. The market as I said are aware of the news. They anticipate events, they don't wait to react until after they happen other than events which have no warning. Toro worked on wall street, he knows better.

 

[kaz]

If the default on the debt occurred, and it dragged out, I believe the results could be catastrophic. It wouldn't be for the first few days or weeks as the market believes the parties will eventually come to a deal. But, when they suddenly come to realize interest isn't being paid, you could have a repeat of Lehman. The Fed would them get involved in an even bigger way. US Treasury securities are the lynchpin of the global financial system.

But maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

The market generally acts in the reverse of what you describe, they react then calm down. They don't generally stay calm then react. It's because investors expect risk adjusted returns, it's the risk part of the equation.

BTW, people who operate in markets also follow the news.

Perhaps you'd like to sell me a put option then?

You aren't paying attention to what's happening. It's acting like the market did prior to August 2011.

The market didn't believe the politicians were batshit insane in August 2011 when they were last ******* around with the debt ceiling. Then, when they realized that, indeed, the politicians may be batshit insane, the market fell 15%-20% in 10 trading days.

Since then, the market has become inured to some extent to a default. It believes the Republicans will not go over the cliff because of Obamacare.

I see, so:

1) The market doesn't remember August 2011 like you do, so they are doing the same thing again.

2) You know that this isn't already built into the price.

They love people like you who assume you know more than they do, you rack up the transaction costs of trading. Lots of people out guess the market once. Nobody does it consistently over time.

 

[Stephanie]

the Fear Mongering is getting strong

I'm waiting for the one where the whole world is going to end

 

[Toro]

The market generally acts in the reverse of what you describe, they react then calm down. They don't generally stay calm then react. It's because investors expect risk adjusted returns, it's the risk part of the equation.

BTW, people who operate in markets also follow the news.

Perhaps you'd like to sell me a put option then?

You aren't paying attention to what's happening. It's acting like the market did prior to August 2011.

The market didn't believe the politicians were batshit insane in August 2011 when they were last ******* around with the debt ceiling. Then, when they realized that, indeed, the politicians may be batshit insane, the market fell 15%-20% in 10 trading days.

Since then, the market has become inured to some extent to a default. It believes the Republicans will not go over the cliff because of Obamacare.

I see, so:

1) The market doesn't remember August 2011 like you do, so they are doing the same thing again.

2) You know that this isn't already built into the price.

They love people like you who assume you know more than they do, you rack up the transaction costs of trading. Lots of people out guess the market once. Nobody does it consistently over time.

What is built into the price is the belief that they will do a deal, like they did in August 2011 and on New Years Eve re the Sequester. Every single person whom I speak or listen to believes a deal will get done, even though some of them are starting to hedge.

If you think it's already in the price, you should be selling deep OTM puts by the truckload. I wouldn't advise it though.

 

[zeke]

Why would we default?

Our service on the debt costs about 20 billion a month we currently collect more than 10 times that a month in tax revenue.

Even with no increase in the debt ceiling we should not have a problem servicing the debt.

default means more than just not paying interest on the debt.

it means not paying interest on the debt, not cashing out securities that are withdrawn, not paying bills that are owed to contractors, etc etc..

if we owe money (especially to non-Federal govt. entities) and don't pay it, we have defaulted.

We should have to do what Obama encouraged Americans to do as result of the evil banks

Walk away then blame it on someone else

In this case, we should walk away and Obama can blame it on Bush

-Geaux

Are you 14 years old? Or just have the mentality of a 14 year old. Which is it?
Come on, you can share that info with us. I mean, you share all that other drivel.

But really, when did Obama say to walk away from the banks and blame it on Bush?

I mean what are you trying to say. What point are you trying to make?

 

[zeke]

Perhaps you'd like to sell me a put option then?

You aren't paying attention to what's happening. It's acting like the market did prior to August 2011.

The market didn't believe the politicians were batshit insane in August 2011 when they were last ******* around with the debt ceiling. Then, when they realized that, indeed, the politicians may be batshit insane, the market fell 15%-20% in 10 trading days.

Since then, the market has become inured to some extent to a default. It believes the Republicans will not go over the cliff because of Obamacare.

I see, so:

1) The market doesn't remember August 2011 like you do, so they are doing the same thing again.

2) You know that this isn't already built into the price.

They love people like you who assume you know more than they do, you rack up the transaction costs of trading. Lots of people out guess the market once. Nobody does it consistently over time.

What is built into the price is the belief that they will do a deal, like they did in August 2011 and on New Years Eve re the Sequester. Every single person whom I speak or listen to believes a deal will get done, even though some of them are starting to hedge.

If you think it's already in the price, you should be selling deep OTM puts by the truckload. I wouldn't advise it though.

There won't be a deal. To many Republicans are out there trying to convince themselves and the rest of us that really, a default won't be so bad. Really. Looks like we are gonna find out.

Hey you aren't concerned that the Repubs could be wrong are you? And that being wrong might hurt the Republican party.

 

[KissMy]

The market generally acts in the reverse of what you describe, they react then calm down. They don't generally stay calm then react. It's because investors expect risk adjusted returns, it's the risk part of the equation.

BTW, people who operate in markets also follow the news.

The market will react in waves. First it will be from fear & shock. Then a missed payment will cause a leveraged business or bank to fail. That leverage will amplify ripples as they move through every market in the planet. Bank runs & stock selling will destroy the global economy.

Again, that almost never happens. The market as I said are aware of the news. They anticipate events, they don't wait to react until after they happen other than events which have no warning. Toro worked on wall street, he knows better.

There is absolutely no political will for a TARP type bail out to save everyone from the abyss this time & the Fed is pushing on a string. Once the Lehman moment is here there will be no safety net.

 

[KissMy]

There won't be a deal. To many Republicans are out there trying to convince themselves and the rest of us that really, a default won't be so bad. Really. Looks like we are gonna find out.

Hey you aren't concerned that the Repubs could be wrong are you? And that being wrong might hurt the Republican party.

They have already convince the majority that a default won't be so bad. So we are going to find out.

NY Times Poll: People Prefer Default to Increasing the Debt Limit Without Cuts

 

[RKMBrown]

If someone calls you and threatens to ruin your credit, if you don't do what they want you to do, they can be arrested for extortion.

So can the FBI arrest House Republicans for extortion?

No but we can hang Obama for treason if he defaults on the debt. By law the debt gets paid from the receipts. There is no reason to default on our debts, we don't need to borrow any more money, the feds will have to learn to do more with less and stop crying about it.

By God I am here to say thanks to JRK for SHARING his stupidity. Again. Thanks jrk.

Fuk you think that the President controls the governments purse strings. Why don't you show all where in the COTUS it says the President can do what you say.

Sure no problem. The 14th Amendment states, "the validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law shall not be questioned." This makes it illegal for each branch to default.

Perry v. the United States, affirmed the fundamental principle that Congress may not “alter or destroy” debts already incurred.

The president has emergency powers, to direct funds where needed under the "general welfare clause" the "necessary and proper clause" and "the commerce clause."

Any other questions?

 

[RKMBrown]

I see, so:

1) The market doesn't remember August 2011 like you do, so they are doing the same thing again.

2) You know that this isn't already built into the price.

They love people like you who assume you know more than they do, you rack up the transaction costs of trading. Lots of people out guess the market once. Nobody does it consistently over time.

What is built into the price is the belief that they will do a deal, like they did in August 2011 and on New Years Eve re the Sequester. Every single person whom I speak or listen to believes a deal will get done, even though some of them are starting to hedge.

If you think it's already in the price, you should be selling deep OTM puts by the truckload. I wouldn't advise it though.

There won't be a deal. To many Republicans are out there trying to convince themselves and the rest of us that really, a default won't be so bad. Really. Looks like we are gonna find out.

Hey you aren't concerned that the Repubs could be wrong are you? And that being wrong might hurt the Republican party.

I say we see what happens. You democrats have screamed fire to many times.

 

[zeke]

No but we can hang Obama for treason if he defaults on the debt. By law the debt gets paid from the receipts. There is no reason to default on our debts, we don't need to borrow any more money, the feds will have to learn to do more with less and stop crying about it.

By God I am here to say thanks to JRK for SHARING his stupidity. Again. Thanks jrk.

Fuk you think that the President controls the governments purse strings. Why don't you show all where in the COTUS it says the President can do what you say.

Sure no problem. The 14th Amendment states, "the validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law shall not be questioned." This makes it illegal for each branch to default.

Perry v. the United States, affirmed the fundamental principle that Congress may not “alter or destroy” debts already incurred.

The president has emergency powers, to direct funds where needed under the "general welfare clause" the "necessary and proper clause" and "the commerce clause."

Any other questions?

Nice try. What is the "emergency" and how did this "emergency" come about?

A self inflicted wound caused by the Republican party does not constitute an "emergency".

Did you read that part in Perry vs the USA. Congress is who is being talked about and what Congress shall do. Not alter or destroy debts already incurred. In other words, Congress needs to pay the bills that Congress authorized by law.

You do understand that this entire mess is being brought to us by the Republican party?
Nah, you don't understand that at all.

Beside that, you all are HOPING Obama tries that so you can bring about impeachment articles. Tell the truth. That's where you all wanna go with this bull shit.

 

[zeke]

What is built into the price is the belief that they will do a deal, like they did in August 2011 and on New Years Eve re the Sequester. Every single person whom I speak or listen to believes a deal will get done, even though some of them are starting to hedge.

If you think it's already in the price, you should be selling deep OTM puts by the truckload. I wouldn't advise it though.

There won't be a deal. To many Republicans are out there trying to convince themselves and the rest of us that really, a default won't be so bad. Really. Looks like we are gonna find out.

Hey you aren't concerned that the Repubs could be wrong are you? And that being wrong might hurt the Republican party.

I say we see what happens. You democrats have screamed fire to many times.

In other words, you don't have any money to lose. Yea, lets crash the worlds biggest economy just because Repubs want to see what happens. They think it won't be so bad.

You know how fuking stupid that is? Nah probably not. You are just all about your "party".

 

[Toro]

Perhaps you'd like to sell me a put option then?

You aren't paying attention to what's happening. It's acting like the market did prior to August 2011.

The market didn't believe the politicians were batshit insane in August 2011 when they were last ******* around with the debt ceiling. Then, when they realized that, indeed, the politicians may be batshit insane, the market fell 15%-20% in 10 trading days.

Since then, the market has become inured to some extent to a default. It believes the Republicans will not go over the cliff because of Obamacare.

I see, so:

1) The market doesn't remember August 2011 like you do, so they are doing the same thing again.

2) You know that this isn't already built into the price.

They love people like you who assume you know more than they do, you rack up the transaction costs of trading. Lots of people out guess the market once. Nobody does it consistently over time.

What is built into the price is the belief that they will do a deal, like they did in August 2011 and on New Years Eve re the Sequester. Every single person whom I speak or listen to believes a deal will get done, even though some of them are starting to hedge.

If you think it's already in the price, you should be selling deep OTM puts by the truckload. I wouldn't advise it though.

FYI pC4 of the WSJ today titled "Money managers on market: why worry?" No one thinks a deal won't get done. And as I type this, a money manager on cnbc is saying the same thing.

 

[RKMBrown]

By God I am here to say thanks to JRK for SHARING his stupidity. Again. Thanks jrk.

Fuk you think that the President controls the governments purse strings. Why don't you show all where in the COTUS it says the President can do what you say.

Sure no problem. The 14th Amendment states, "the validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law shall not be questioned." This makes it illegal for each branch to default.

Perry v. the United States, affirmed the fundamental principle that Congress may not “alter or destroy” debts already incurred.

The president has emergency powers, to direct funds where needed under the "general welfare clause" the "necessary and proper clause" and "the commerce clause."

Any other questions?

Nice try. What is the "emergency" and how did this "emergency" come about?

A self inflicted wound caused by the Republican party does not constitute an "emergency".

Did you read that part in Perry vs the USA. Congress is who is being talked about and what Congress shall do. Not alter or destroy debts already incurred. In other words, Congress needs to pay the bills that Congress authorized by law.

You do understand that this entire mess is being brought to us by the Republican party?
Nah, you don't understand that at all.

Beside that, you all are HOPING Obama tries that so you can bring about impeachment articles. Tell the truth. That's where you all wanna go with this bull shit.

You really don't know what the emergency is? Have you been hiding under a rock?

Fine. The emergency is insufficient funds to pay for each and every spending item in the budget, one of which is debt interest, the non-payment of which would cause us to default on our loans. As I just showed you, defaulting on our loans is not allowed by the constitution. Further, defaulting on our loans would likely be seen as an act of war and at best start a great depression with the dollar defaulting and becoming no better than the paper it's printed on.

How did it come about? Easy, overspending by our government.

Blame the republicans? lol both sides are to blame

I'd like to impeach Obama, but not over using emergency powers to direct incoming receipts to the debt payments followed by necessary functions of government in some priority order.