Lesson Within a Lesson

[Frannie]

yes..black...he is blind

It is stipulated that he is blind. That does not explain how you arrived at your answer of "black."
Try again.

whether the hat is black or red...he only sees black...so to him...it's black.

A blind man can not see black nor can he describe any color, unless he had sight before going blind

The Lesson Within A Lesson continues to play out. EVERYONE has the same set of facts and the interpretation continues endlessly. Frannie, what the blind man can't see is immaterial. Maybe he did once have sight. He has reason and ears. So he knows his hat is black, and he goes free. End of subject. It's a hypothetical, hello. Hasn't ever happened and won't ever.

Yeah Frannie so stick it up your ass.

OK then what came first scrambles eggs and cow brains, chickens or eggs

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

yes..black...he is blind

It is stipulated that he is blind. That does not explain how you arrived at your answer of "black."
Try again.

whether the hat is black or red...he only sees black...so to him...it's black.

A blind man can not see black nor can he describe any color, unless he had sight before going blind

Exactly...how do we know? How do we know he has not been blind for a month? Besides that...colors can be described. Black is simply the absence of light.

Again a blind man can not describe the absence of light

Furthermore black is not the absence of light because black exist in the light

Keep diggin Francis

 

[Frannie]

It is stipulated that he is blind. That does not explain how you arrived at your answer of "black."
Try again.

whether the hat is black or red...he only sees black...so to him...it's black.

A blind man can not see black nor can he describe any color, unless he had sight before going blind

Exactly...how do we know? How do we know he has not been blind for a month? Besides that...colors can be described. Black is simply the absence of light.

Again a blind man can not describe the absence of light

Furthermore black is not the absence of light because black exist in the light

Keep diggin Francis

Keep telling people that black is the absence of light when no photons are in black paint or hat dye and when photons (light) are required to see anything black

Do you really believe that blind people see black?



130 vs perhaps 95

Which means you are probably in charge over there

 

[Frannie]

A blind man can not see black nor can he describe any color, unless he had sight before going blind

Exactly...how do we know? How do we know he has not been blind for a month? Besides that...colors can be described. Black is simply the absence of light.

Again a blind man can not describe the absence of light

Furthermore black is not the absence of light because black exist in the light

Keep diggin Francis

Keep telling people that black is the absence of light when no photons are included in black paint

130 vs perhaps 95

What color is deep space? What color is a black hole? What color is when there is no light?
130? Is that how many dicks you've taken up the arse?

I know that you accept that everything reported is real, such as black holes. However since the current estimates of universal expansion is 5 times light speed this means that every bit of physics that predicts black holes is now in doubt as if galaxies are moving faster than light relativity falls apart and we must begin all over. This discrepancy has led to the following prediction by a relevant physicist

Einstein also said the universe was not expanding before Hubble proved him wrong, so which is it


PS. When I sleep there are no photons, yet my dreams are in full color and I have both seen and felt the Sun

 

[Frannie]

A blind man can not see black nor can he describe any color, unless he had sight before going blind

Exactly...how do we know? How do we know he has not been blind for a month? Besides that...colors can be described. Black is simply the absence of light.

Again a blind man can not describe the absence of light

Furthermore black is not the absence of light because black exist in the light

Keep diggin Francis

Keep telling people that black is the absence of light when no photons are included in black paint

130 vs perhaps 95

What color is deep space? What color is a black hole? What color is when there is no light?
130? Is that how many dicks you've taken up the arse?

Not even a guess as to what came first, the store, truck, farm, chicken or egg

That's ok you stick to the easy stuff

 

[Frannie]

A blind man can not see black nor can he describe any color, unless he had sight before going blind

Exactly...how do we know? How do we know he has not been blind for a month? Besides that...colors can be described. Black is simply the absence of light.

Again a blind man can not describe the absence of light

Furthermore black is not the absence of light because black exist in the light

Keep diggin Francis

Keep telling people that black is the absence of light when no photons are included in black paint

130 vs perhaps 95

What color is deep space? What color is a black hole? What color is when there is no light?
130? Is that how many dicks you've taken up the arse?

Colors do not change in the absence of light. We merely can not see their reflection

 

[Frannie]

A blind man can not see black nor can he describe any color, unless he had sight before going blind

Exactly...how do we know? How do we know he has not been blind for a month? Besides that...colors can be described. Black is simply the absence of light.

Again a blind man can not describe the absence of light

Furthermore black is not the absence of light because black exist in the light

Keep diggin Francis

Keep telling people that black is the absence of light when no photons are included in black paint

130 vs perhaps 95

What color is deep space? What color is a black hole? What color is when there is no light?
130? Is that how many dicks you've taken up the arse?

Gee wiz you gave up way too soon.

Francis hates party poopers, for the record you may call a friend or poll the office

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Colors do not change in the absence of light. We merely can not see their reflection

Only light has "color", not the objects it reflects off of. Objects have properties that cause them to absorb certain wavelengths of light. They only show "color" when you bounce light off of them. This, of course, does not include objects that emit their own light.

 

[Frannie]

Colors do not change in the absence of light. We merely can not see their reflection

Only light has "color", not the objects it reflects off of. Objects have properties that cause them to absorb certain wavelengths of light. They only show "color" when you bounce light off of them. This, of course, does not include objects that emit their own light.

Colors do not change in the absence of light. We merely can not see their reflection

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Colors do not change in the absence of light.

There is no color in the absence of light.

 

[ChemEngineer]

Colors do not change in the absence of light. We merely can not see their reflection

The depths of depravity some of you, Tijn, will sink to is deplorable. Grow up and act like a man, if you are capable of it.

I had no idea I would be giving a lesson on nonsense such as you people continue to spread like little school children.

The original lessons are OVER. Stop your stupidity all of you.

Color is ONLY a function that manifests in the presence of light. An apple in a closed refrigerator has no color. Nothing has color in darkness. If you shine light over a very narrow band of various wavelengths, colors will of course change dramatically. When you dive down into the ocean, colors wash out beyond 100 feet deep due to the selective absorption of longer wavelength light. What color is red down deep? NOT red.
But turn a light on and it suddenly becomes red only in the presence of certain wavelengths. So color is relative.

I repeat, stop your stupidity. This was supposed to be fun. Why must you screw it up?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Keep telling people that black is the absence of light when no photons are in black paint or hat dye and when photons (light) are required to see anything black

Because, due to the very few photons in the wavelengths of visible light hitting our retinas at each moment , these things appear black. Take a picture of them with a long exposure camera, and suddenly they may appear gray, white, or even as one of the colors.

So yeah, you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Frannie]

Colors do not change in the absence of light.

There is no color in the absence of light.

If you were in a light proof room and turned off the lights so no light could enter all the objects with color would still have that color. Your need to see does not change reality

Though you clearly create your own reality as you go.

This test is fun, can you get the Chief

 

[Frannie]

Colors do not change in the absence of light. We merely can not see their reflection

The depths of depravity some of you, Tijn, will sink to is deplorable. Grow up and act like a man, if you are capable of it.

I had no idea I would be giving a lesson on nonsense such as you people continue to spread like little school children.

The original lessons are OVER. Stop your stupidity all of you.

Color is ONLY a function that manifests in the presence of light. An apple in a closed refrigerator has no color. Nothing has color in darkness. If you shine light over a very narrow band of various wavelengths, colors will of course change dramatically. When you dive down into the ocean, colors wash out beyond 100 feet deep due to the selective absorption of longer wavelength light. What color is red down deep? NOT red.
But turn a light on and it suddenly becomes red only in the presence of certain wavelengths. So color is relative.

I repeat, stop your stupidity. This was supposed to be fun. Why must you screw it up?

Color manifest to the human eye with light, clearly color still exist in the dark or an abstract painting painted in the absence of light could not appear when the light hit it.

But you keep on being a non nuclear physician


Q:
I was told that the way our eyes perceive color is based on how the light reflects off that object. So, I was wondering, do objects still have color when there is no light? For example, if I were to turn off my bedroom light, would my walls still be blue, like they are when the lights are on?
- Rebecca (age 13)
Columbia, KY, USA
A:
That's an interesting question. The answer partly depends on what you mean by "color".

Of course if there's no light around, there's no color that you can see. On the other hand, the wall must have some property that makes it be blue. That property is still there in the dark.

So I guess in a way what the question amounts to is to ask if there's anything you could measure about the wall that says it's blue without having to actually put light on it. The answer to that is yes. For example, a chemical analysis of the paint could show that it contains pigments that would mainly reflect blue light. You could even rig the analyzer to report that to you by sound only.

For formalists, the fluctuation-dissipation theorem says that the absorption spectrum of the wall, together with the temperature, uniquely determines the spectrum of the electromagnetic fluctuations on it. Actually, for light at room temperature the temperature is unimportant. The spectrum of the quantum mechanical fluctuations in the electromagnetic field, present even without light, determine what the absorption spectrum will be.

Mike W.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If you were in a light proof room and turned off the lights so no light could enter all the objects with color would still have that color.

Well, that depends. If you define "color" in the colloquial manner to be the visible light absorption properties of an object, then yes. But that is not how science defines color. Science defines color as the wavelength of the photons impacting the observer or instrument.

 

[Frannie]

If you were in a light proof room and turned off the lights so no light could enter all the objects with color would still have that color.

Well, that depends. If you define "color" in the colloquial manner to be the visible light absorption properties of an object, then yes. But that is not how science defines color. Science defines color as the wavelength of the photons impacting the observer or instrument.

Q:
I was told that the way our eyes perceive color is based on how the light reflects off that object. So, I was wondering, do objects still have color when there is no light? For example, if I were to turn off my bedroom light, would my walls still be blue, like they are when the lights are on?
- Rebecca (age 13)
Columbia, KY, USA
A:
That's an interesting question. The answer partly depends on what you mean by "color".

Of course if there's no light around, there's no color that you can see. On the other hand, the wall must have some property that makes it be blue. That property is still there in the dark.

So I guess in a way what the question amounts to is to ask if there's anything you could measure about the wall that says it's blue without having to actually put light on it. The answer to that is yes. For example, a chemical analysis of the paint could show that it contains pigments that would mainly reflect blue light. You could even rig the analyzer to report that to you by sound only.

For formalists, the fluctuation-dissipation theorem says that the absorption spectrum of the wall, together with the temperature, uniquely determines the spectrum of the electromagnetic fluctuations on it. Actually, for light at room temperature the temperature is unimportant. The spectrum of the quantum mechanical fluctuations in the electromagnetic field, present even without light, determine what the absorption spectrum will be.

Mike W.

 

[ChemEngineer]

"That property is still there in the dark."

A chemical is not a color. It is a chemical. "That property" is absorbing light of multiple wavelengths, while reflecting others by virtue of its chemical composition only. A chemical composition, or formula, is NOT a color.
Now give it up.

You said I was "the only one". You just lost me.
ciao

 

[Frannie]

"That property is still there in the dark."

A chemical is not a color. It is a chemical. "That property" is absorbing light of multiple wavelengths, while reflecting others by virtue of its chemical composition only. A chemical composition, or formula, is NOT a color.
Now give it up.

You said I was "the only one". You just lost me.
ciao

Dude is a color a color if no one sees it?

Reality does not depend upon humans seeing something.

And as I said colors exist in dreams that are void of all light


If No Light Falls On an Object Does It still Have a Color?

Like the philosophical question about the sound of a tree falling in a forest, this is a question of perception. Since color is a visual perception and light is the stimulus that produces visual perception of objects, then with no light there is also no color. At least there is no color that belongs to that object. We might still perceive color due to the dark noise in our visual system. For example, when we are in a completely darkened room for a long period of time (so that we completely adapt), the perception is not one of black (which only exists as a related color), but one of a noisy (or grainy) dark gray.
It is, of course, possible to perceive color without visual stimulation, but such colors would not be associated with specific objects in our environment since we couldn't see them. Dreams are one example. We can have clear color perceptions of imagined objects when we are dreaming. And, yes, people do perceive dreams in color. Although for some people it is difficult to recall dreams and some people do claim that their dreams are only in black and white. Another non-visual color perception comes from pressure on the eye. If you press gently at the corner of your eye you will see some bright flashes due to this pressure. These are known as pressure phosphenes. It is not very good for your eyes to press on them, so I don't recommend doing this experiment more than once and even then be very gentle. One could also consider afterimages as non-visual color perceptions since they result from the removal of the light stimulus rather than its presence. However, they are really still produced by visual stimulation.
These types of questions can never be answered definitively. That's what makes them philosophical in nature. It is fun to ponder them and discuss the possible answers with others. Such thoughts and discussions can lead us into greater insights about ourselves and the world around us. Another one to ponder from The Gateless Gate ... "The wind is flapping a temple flag, and two monks were having an argument about it. One said, 'The flag is moving.' The other said, 'The wind is moving.' They argued back and forth but could not reach the truth. The sixth patriarch said, 'It is not the wind that moves. It is not the flag that moves. It is your mind that moves.' The two monks were struck with awe."

Got that grasshopper

 

[luchitociencia]

A prison was overcrowded and the warden decided to free one prisoner. But rather than pick one at random, he thought he would give a test. So three prisoners were brought in to the warden's office and told the following.
"In this duffel bag are five hats. Three are black and two are red.

Two prisoners looked at the bag but the third rose up his hand to ask a question, He was ignored.

The guard behind you will select them randomly and place one on each of your heads which you cannot see nor remove. If you can tell me the color of the hat on your head, you will be released immediately from prison. But to guard against guessing, you agree that if you guess and are wrong, you will be shot immediately."

The prisoner who tried asking a question rose up his hand again but was ignored one more time. He received a punch in his head with the warning of following instructions.

All three prisoners agree and the hats are placed on each of their heads.

First prisoner looks at the other two hats and says, "I don't know.
Second prisoner looks at the other two hats and says, "I don't know."
Third prisoner says ...

"I need a lawyer, Please call Luchito".

After being pulled from his place and pushed to approach the warden, a secret conversation happened and the warden says:

"Lets have a recess, the prisoner's lawyer must be called. The lawyer showed up.

Warden: The prisoner requested your presence due to a special situation, a situation I hope has been informed to you while thou were on your way.

Luchito: That is correct. The complaint and inquiry of my client is understood by me to be fair and the test to be fit for his condition. He is blind and he has no idea of what black and red are about.

Warden: But, have not you read the other messages in this thread about reflection of light, about colors, about black perception?!!!! Hello?! That has been discussed already, there is nothing to say after that, unless you have any cause other than light, color and black.

Luchito: That is also correct. I was called by this blind man for him to receive a fair treatment,.

Warden: I must leave soon, my grandson will play cello at the Kingdom's Hall , so please hurry up and vomit whatever you want to say.

Luchito: I will say that my job as a troubleshooter is to find a solut...

Warden: (interrupting) Oh, come on! Cut that crap. Just tell your sh*t and lets continue fast with the test.

Luchito: My client can't identify the colors of the hats but he can use his fingers and touch them. The requested solution is to ad an additional feature to the hats so they can be different at touch. My client will use his hands to check the available choices.

Warden: Incredible! For a guy such an idiot like you... you have said something that makes sense. Soldier! ad a pin on the back of the red hats.

The pins were added to the red hats and the test started again.

Warden: Prisoner, you can't relate colors but in this test, the black hats will have a pin and the red hats will be plain. Understood?

Prisoner: Yes. Thank you.

The test was made again. The two prisoners saw the others hats and their answer was "I don't know"

The third prisoner, the blind man, went and touched the other two prisoners hats and with strong confidence says: "I know"

Warden: Oh, yes? Very well, what is the color of your hat?

Prisoner: Red.

Warden: Aaacckk! Wrong!

Prisoner: Oh, no no no no... please, wait... I mean...

Warden: (interrumping) Soldier!...( his fat finger going down)...kill him.

Lesson: Next time a soldier insert a pin in a hat, be sure that the pin has not fallen on the floor before the test.

 

[Frannie]

"That property is still there in the dark."

A chemical is not a color. It is a chemical. "That property" is absorbing light of multiple wavelengths, while reflecting others by virtue of its chemical composition only. A chemical composition, or formula, is NOT a color.
Now give it up.

You said I was "the only one". You just lost me.
ciao

Is there color on the dark side of the moon?
Since you know your walls are olive and the ceiling is beige you are maintaining that they lose all pigment when the lights are out, or are they still the exact same color whether you can see them or not?

What is the color of sound? or heat? or of logic?