Legalization of Marijuana

[MikeK]

Freedom Becky is a hack who keeps saying that legalization is going to lead to more kids suffering from mental illness.

Hey Becky, nobody is arguing that kids should smoke, matter of fact, most of the posters here believe it should be taxed and regulated like alcohol.

But..................if you wanna keep on your ignorant tirade, go right ahead, we know you don't know shit about this subject because you keep bringing up the fear mongering arguements about kids (which nobody believes should be allowed to get, nor should they get alcohol either) because you don't have anything else.

"There is no reformer like a reformed drunk" is an old but very wise adage -- and it is likely to apply in FreedomBecki's example. Even more likely she has kids who function outside her ability to control and who use marijuana as one aspect of their generally rebellious conduct. This is a common impetus for her type of adherence to Reefer Madness propaganda.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

People who want to take drugs should be given all the drugs they want to take and more, a little extra. The woman who won a million dollar lottery just offed herself with an overdose. We just need a few million more to have that opportunity.

What you've said might be relevant where most illegal recreational drugs are concerned, but if you wish to be accurate in your presentations you should include the fact that marijuana is relatively benign and has absolutely no lethal potential. The facts are one cannot overdose on marijuana and there is no record anywhere in the annals of medical science of (unadulterated) marijuana having caused a single death or illness. Not one.

If you find that hard to believe it's because you've been brainwashed and prying misinformation and disinformation from the brain is sometimes uncomfortable. But it's worth doing because truth opens the closed mind.

.....Unless you're a "captured"-audience.....in a D.A.R.E.-class!!!

*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IueIgHiwtfg]Grass: The History Of Marijuana [Full Documentary] - YouTube[/ame]

*

 

[MikeK]

It doesn't work. Taxing marijuana just increases the black market. Taxes are now so high on cigarettes that the black market is growing and thriving.

Not if the tax is reasonable -- as your statement above plainly implies. There was no bootlegging of cigarettes when the tax was reasonable.

Shit man, last I heard a 1/4 oz was over 100 dollars for some good hydro. I think they could tas the hell out of it and it would still be cheaper.

If marijuana were as legally available as is booze its availability would soon become comparable to that of booze in terms of quality and of pricing, because some comparison can be made between the distributive prospects of the two products.

One has the option to buy a fifth of cheap bourbon for less than ten dollars or one can put down sixty-five dollars for a fifth of Remy Martin cognac. The choice depends on one's individual taste and one's pocketbook.

If marijuana were legal there would be as many different grades of quality, type, and prices as there are with beverage alcohol, ranging from ordinary "ditchweed" to the finest hydroponically grown and pampered purple indica sinsemilla. But unlike the existing price levels which are the consequence of illegality, the price of legal bud would be dramatically affected by competition. Whereas an ounce of top-shelf primo hydro can cost anywhere from $500 to $1,000 ("lawyer bud") today, it would cost about $100 in a legally licensed shop, $50 of which would be taxes.

Thus the states and the federal government would be deriving enormous revenues from the sale of marijuana but the consumer would be obtaining a product which is superior in every way, as well as being perfectly free of contaminants, for about ten percent of the current bootleg prices.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Thus the states and the federal government would be deriving enormous revenues from the sale of marijuana but the consumer would be obtaining a product which is superior in every way, as well as being perfectly free of contaminants, for about ten percent of the current bootleg prices.

They could make more w/ easy legal access to all the opiates you desire...just pay the morpheus tax

 

[Harry Dresden]

Tobacco products are "taxed to hell" There is a huge bootleg market for cigarettes. Every day vehicles leave the southeast bound for the high tax blue states of the northeast and upper midwest with ciggys on board.
No, if marijuana is taxed in moderation, the black market would be a comparative minimum.
Regulated, pot would be a huge cash crop.

It is the largest cash crop in California and it is not taxed.

The marijuana sold in pot shops is taxed. Comparatively little is sold in pot shops, customers preferring to patronize their local dealer instead and not pay the tax.

the only way you would know this is if you smoke the stuff or know a bunch who do....and your attitude on this tells me you never have touched it......and you very seldom put up anything backing up what you post.....because its mostly bullshit.....i smoked for 30 years and the dozens of people i know would love to have it Legalized.....BECAUSE as a user would tell you ....going to your "local dealer" is pain in the ass.....and things dont happen sometimes and so you dont get it......at a shop...its there ...and the prices are not that far off from what you pay on the street.....and at the shop your getting Quality......and a choice......

 

[Harry Dresden]

It doesn't work. Taxing marijuana just increases the black market. Taxes are now so high on cigarettes that the black market is growing and thriving.

Not if the tax is reasonable -- as your statement above plainly implies. There was no bootlegging of cigarettes when the tax was reasonable.

Shit man, last I heard a 1/4 oz was over 100 dollars for some good hydro. I think they could tas the hell out of it and it would still be cheaper.

yep and its there.....you dont have to put up with it..."not happening man".....

 

[Harry Dresden]

It is the largest cash crop in California and it is not taxed.

The marijuana sold in pot shops is taxed. Comparatively little is sold in pot shops, customers preferring to patronize their local dealer instead and not pay the tax.

Yeah....you really sound like someone who'd know.

holy shit.....i agree with Shamen on this........and that is exactly what i told her in my post....

 

[ABikerSailor]

People who want to take drugs should be given all the drugs they want to take and more, a little extra. The woman who won a million dollar lottery just offed herself with an overdose. We just need a few million more to have that opportunity.

Interesting little fact for you. Nobody has ever overdosed on cannabis. Additionally, nobody has ever been diagnosed as being physically addicted to pot.

If you want to say that you can become mentally dependent on it, go right ahead. You can also become mentally dependent on people (codependency), gambling, shopping, etc.

 

[kaz]

More substance use is not better.

All I can say is thank God we have a caring, nurturing government to make that decision for us. And then to go and conduct a war on our freedom and privacy to make darned sure that we're following our government's policy. What's the harm of a few shoot outs in the streets, funding of the mafia and inner city gangs and destabilization of governments from Columbia to Afghanistan anyway? I mean it's just because our government cares about us and wants to protect us by telling us what we can do with our bodies.

Here's the real problem Sparky. We do all that stuff, and we still ... have ... the ... drugs ...

But that's only if you care about facts and logic and crap like that...

Oh ****, I agree.

You realize I'm not a con, I'm a libertarian? Government is the worst solution to any problem. So logically you have government do only those things that only government can do. Defense, police, roads, civil and criminal courts, those sorts of things. And this is a case where logic unequivocally is supported by all empirical data.

 

[MikeK]

People who want to take drugs should be given all the drugs they want to take and more, a little extra. The woman who won a million dollar lottery just offed herself with an overdose. We just need a few million more to have that opportunity.

In spite of the essentially cynical and inconsiderate tone and substance of your comment I believe that in extreme examples of persistent addiction your proposal has merit.

The existing approach to the problem of drug abuse is dumb brute force: i.e., use drugs and go to prison. Period. That approach is stupid and corrupt -- and it doesn't work. In accordance with one definition of insanity we've been doing the same thing year after year with the same negative effect with no expressed or implied intention to change anything. But what obviously is needed in place of dumb brute force is a strategy that begins with an intensive public education program commencing in elementary stages at the first school grade level and extending throughout all levels of public life.

Those who are inclined to abuse dangerous drugs and who are not intercepted by the effects of public education but become addicted should be impressed into intelligently designed rehabilitation programs rather than imprisoned along with violently anti-social offenders, which makes no sense to anyone other than those who profit from such a stupidly cruel and antiquated system.

Those who do not respond to rehabilitative treatment but who choose to continue using drugs which they know are harmful and debilitating are obviously self-destructive beyond any known method of salvation and should not be subjected to the cruel, costly, and predictably ineffective, punitive process of repetitive imprisonment. Instead, such clearly suicidal individuals should be provided with the bare essentials needed to sustain life and as much of the drug of choice (poison) required to satisfy their craving. But they should not be treated for the medical consequences of their chosen self-destructive process.

Every aspect of the places which are provided for these suicidal individuals to live and to die from their addictions should be videotaped and the edited sequences, which clearly and candidly reveal the consequences of drug abuse, shown both in high schools and on prime time television.

That is the way to deal with the problem of drug abuse. That is education. And even if every presently illegal drug is made legally available, that approach will virtually eliminate their use.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

More substance use is not better.

banning or outlawing a popular substance or culture only drives it underground. Keeping it legal or in the open allows better observation and control.

Done!!!​

October 21, 2012

"Green Rush"​

"But in spite of all the euphoria, there is a cloud hanging over the cannabis industry in Colorado, and it's not marijuana smoke. It's the federal Controlled Substances Act, which still lists marijuana as a Schedule One drug, every bit as dangerous as heroin, with no medical benefit. And the Justice Department is not happy with the wide-scale commercialization of Colorado cannabis. Sam Kamin is a law professor at the University of Denver, and one of the reigning experts on the subject.

Steve Kroft: In Colorado, you can grow it if you're licensed and you can sell it if you're licensed to people who have a card to buy it.

Sam Kamin: Yes, but--

Steve Kroft: And all of those people are violating federal law.

Sam Kamin: Exactly. And that's the really strange thing is that we have this, you know, sort of hundreds of dispensaries servicing as many as 100,000 people and every transaction that occurs is a federal crime and every -- all the manufacturing of the product, from the growing of it to the making of the products and everything else, all of those are serious federal crimes.

Steve Kroft: Even though the state of Colorado has passed a constitutional amendment-- amendment allowing it--

Sam Kamin: Exactly.

Steve Kroft: --sanctioning it.

Sam Kamin: Exactly. Right? The federal government sees it as a serious crime. They say, "We know that California and 16 other states, the District of Columbia -- we know you guys think it's medicine. It's not. We hear that you want to legalize it. You can't. We can't make you undo your statutes, but we can sure come in and prosecute your citizens that are violating federal law."

Steve Kroft: But they haven't.

Sam Kamin: But they haven't.

And there's a reason for that. Some might call it the triumph of the marketplace. The federal government doesn't have enough manpower to shut down the medical marijuana business in Colorado or prosecute all the purveyors and patients. And the voters don't want it.

Boulder County District attorney Stan Garnett says it's virtually impossible to impanel a jury on a marijuana case here, let alone get a conviction.

Stan Garnett: What we deal with is what prosecutors call jury nullification, where juries say, "I know what the law is, but I'm not going to follow it." This community has made it very clear that criminal enforcement of marijuana is not something they want me to spend any time on.

Steve Kroft: It is really an issue here?

Stan Garnett: It's really not an issue.

And that is more or less the position of Justice Department in Washington. Deputy Attorney General James Cole has told U.S. attorneys not to waste resources prosecuting patients or caregivers that are in clear compliance with state medical marijuana laws.

James Cole: Our focus is really on keeping it away from children. Our focus is keeping it out of the hands of organized crime. Our focus is making sure that people aren't, through marijuana dispensaries, using it as a pretext to do large-scale interstate drug dealing. These are the areas where we're really trying to focus.

Steve Kroft: So the message is, if you're licensed in the state of Colorado and you follow the law, then you should be okay.

James Cole: Each case is going to rise and fall on its own unique facts. Any of that is still in violation of the Controlled Substances Act of the federal law. We're not interested in bothering people who are sick and are using it in the recommendation of a doctor. We are concerned with people who are using it as a pretext to become large-scale drug dealers.

Steve Kroft: So it sounds like the federal government is tolerating it.

Sam Kamin: It is tolerating it. And at the same time is below the surface, trying to make it very difficult for these folks. It's doing it through banking regulations. If you talk to dispensary owners, one of the things that they will lament is, no one will do business with us.

The Justice Department has let it be known if financial institutions do business with medical marijuana centers, they could be at risk for civil or criminal prosecution under the Controlled Substances Act or federal money laundering statutes. It's made it difficult, if not impossible for dispensaries to get loans, open company bank accounts or process patients' credit cards.

Sam Kamin: It can't stay like this. Either we have to have settled expectations that this is a federal crime, the federal government's not going to tolerate it. Or the federal government is going to let states like Colorado regulate it, tax it, experiment with it. To have it exist in both worlds simultaneously is unsustainable. We can't have a multimillion dollar industry built on criminal conduct.

A federal appeals court in Washington D.C. is currently hearing a case that could remove marijuana from the list of the most dangerous drugs, and into a category that would allow it to be prescribed by doctors. On the political front, the referendums in Colorado and Washington state to legalize marijuana for recreational use are considered too close to call."

 

[Katzndogz]

People who want to take drugs should be given all the drugs they want to take and more, a little extra. The woman who won a million dollar lottery just offed herself with an overdose. We just need a few million more to have that opportunity.

In spite of the essentially cynical and inconsiderate tone and substance of your comment I believe that in extreme examples of persistent addiction your proposal has merit.

The existing approach to the problem of drug abuse is dumb brute force: i.e., use drugs and go to prison. Period. That approach is stupid and corrupt -- and it doesn't work. In accordance with one definition of insanity we've been doing the same thing year after year with the same negative effect with no expressed or implied intention to change anything. But what obviously is needed in place of dumb brute force is a strategy that begins with an intensive public education program commencing in elementary stages at the first school grade level and extending throughout all levels of public life.

Those who are inclined to abuse dangerous drugs and who are not intercepted by the effects of public education but become addicted should be impressed into intelligently designed rehabilitation programs rather than imprisoned along with violently anti-social offenders, which makes no sense to anyone other than those who profit from such a stupidly cruel and antiquated system.

Those who do not respond to rehabilitative treatment but who choose to continue using drugs which they know are harmful and debilitating are obviously self-destructive beyond any known method of salvation and should not be subjected to the cruel, costly, and predictably ineffective, punitive process of repetitive imprisonment. Instead, such clearly suicidal individuals should be provided with the bare essentials needed to sustain life and as much of the drug of choice (poison) required to satisfy their craving. But they should not be treated for the medical consequences of their chosen self-destructive process.

Every aspect of the places which are provided for these suicidal individuals to live and to die from their addictions should be videotaped and the edited sequences, which clearly and candidly reveal the consequences of drug abuse, shown both in high schools and on prime time television.

That is the way to deal with the problem of drug abuse. That is education. And even if every presently illegal drug is made legally available, that approach will virtually eliminate their use.

Drug users ruin not only their own lives, but the lives of everyone around them. Warehousing users would be one solution. Keeping them in a place where they can't cause harm.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

People who want to take drugs should be given all the drugs they want to take and more, a little extra. The woman who won a million dollar lottery just offed herself with an overdose. We just need a few million more to have that opportunity.

In spite of the essentially cynical and inconsiderate tone and substance of your comment I believe that in extreme examples of persistent addiction your proposal has merit.

The existing approach to the problem of drug abuse is dumb brute force: i.e., use drugs and go to prison. Period. That approach is stupid and corrupt -- and it doesn't work. In accordance with one definition of insanity we've been doing the same thing year after year with the same negative effect with no expressed or implied intention to change anything. But what obviously is needed in place of dumb brute force is a strategy that begins with an intensive public education program commencing in elementary stages at the first school grade level and extending throughout all levels of public life.

Those who are inclined to abuse dangerous drugs and who are not intercepted by the effects of public education but become addicted should be impressed into intelligently designed rehabilitation programs rather than imprisoned along with violently anti-social offenders, which makes no sense to anyone other than those who profit from such a stupidly cruel and antiquated system.

Those who do not respond to rehabilitative treatment but who choose to continue using drugs which they know are harmful and debilitating are obviously self-destructive beyond any known method of salvation and should not be subjected to the cruel, costly, and predictably ineffective, punitive process of repetitive imprisonment. Instead, such clearly suicidal individuals should be provided with the bare essentials needed to sustain life and as much of the drug of choice (poison) required to satisfy their craving. But they should not be treated for the medical consequences of their chosen self-destructive process.

Every aspect of the places which are provided for these suicidal individuals to live and to die from their addictions should be videotaped and the edited sequences, which clearly and candidly reveal the consequences of drug abuse, shown both in high schools and on prime time television.

That is the way to deal with the problem of drug abuse. That is education. And even if every presently illegal drug is made legally available, that approach will virtually eliminate their use.

Drug users ruin not only their own lives, but the lives of everyone around them.

....Only if you LISTEN-to-them!!!

 

[April]

In what ways is pot worse then alcohol?

In what way is the war on drugs different then prohibition?

Do you think it is harder for high school kids to get pot or alcohol?

Just some simple questions.

Pot is in no way worse than alcohol...in fact more deaths and more violence is caused as a direct result of alcohol.

It's not different than prohibition.

It's actually easier for kids to have access to both marijuana and alcohol.

A suggested read on this topic: I Shoulda Robbed A Bank by Hugh Yonn

 

[Katzndogz]

There might be more deaths and accidents caused by alcohol, but that would be because alcohol is legal and pot is not.

 

[April]

There might be more deaths and accidents caused by alcohol, but that would be because alcohol is legal and pot is not.

And how is it being legal the reason? Please, explain.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

In what ways is pot worse then alcohol?

In what way is the war on drugs different then prohibition?

Do you think it is harder for high school kids to get pot or alcohol?

Just some simple questions.

Pot is in no way worse than alcohol...in fact more deaths and more violence is caused as a direct result of alcohol.

It's not different than prohibition.

It's actually easier for kids to have access to both marijuana and alcohol.

A suggested read on this topic: I Shoulda Robbed A Bank by Hugh Yonn

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IueIgHiwtfg]Grass: The History Of Marijuana [Full Documentary] - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[ABikerSailor]

There might be more deaths and accidents caused by alcohol, but that would be because alcohol is legal and pot is not.

Wrong. It's because alcohol does different things to the body than what cannabis does.

The effects of pot aren't nearly as incapacitating as alcohol.

 

[Dreamy]

More substance use is not better.

banning or outlawing a popular substance or culture only drives it underground. Keeping it legal or in the open allows better observation and control.

Done!!!​

October 21, 2012​

"Green Rush"​

"But in spite of all the euphoria, there is a cloud hanging over the cannabis industry in Colorado, and it's not marijuana smoke. It's the federal Controlled Substances Act, which still lists marijuana as a Schedule One drug, every bit as dangerous as heroin, with no medical benefit. And the Justice Department is not happy with the wide-scale commercialization of Colorado cannabis. Sam Kamin is a law professor at the University of Denver, and one of the reigning experts on the subject.

Steve Kroft: In Colorado, you can grow it if you're licensed and you can sell it if you're licensed to people who have a card to buy it.

Sam Kamin: Yes, but--

Steve Kroft: And all of those people are violating federal law.

Sam Kamin: Exactly. And that's the really strange thing is that we have this, you know, sort of hundreds of dispensaries servicing as many as 100,000 people and every transaction that occurs is a federal crime and every -- all the manufacturing of the product, from the growing of it to the making of the products and everything else, all of those are serious federal crimes.

Steve Kroft: Even though the state of Colorado has passed a constitutional amendment-- amendment allowing it--

Sam Kamin: Exactly.

Steve Kroft: --sanctioning it.

Sam Kamin: Exactly. Right? The federal government sees it as a serious crime. They say, "We know that California and 16 other states, the District of Columbia -- we know you guys think it's medicine. It's not. We hear that you want to legalize it. You can't. We can't make you undo your statutes, but we can sure come in and prosecute your citizens that are violating federal law."

Steve Kroft: But they haven't.

Sam Kamin: But they haven't.

And there's a reason for that. Some might call it the triumph of the marketplace. The federal government doesn't have enough manpower to shut down the medical marijuana business in Colorado or prosecute all the purveyors and patients. And the voters don't want it.

Boulder County District attorney Stan Garnett says it's virtually impossible to impanel a jury on a marijuana case here, let alone get a conviction.

Stan Garnett: What we deal with is what prosecutors call jury nullification, where juries say, "I know what the law is, but I'm not going to follow it." This community has made it very clear that criminal enforcement of marijuana is not something they want me to spend any time on.

Steve Kroft: It is really an issue here?

Stan Garnett: It's really not an issue.

And that is more or less the position of Justice Department in Washington. Deputy Attorney General James Cole has told U.S. attorneys not to waste resources prosecuting patients or caregivers that are in clear compliance with state medical marijuana laws.

James Cole: Our focus is really on keeping it away from children. Our focus is keeping it out of the hands of organized crime. Our focus is making sure that people aren't, through marijuana dispensaries, using it as a pretext to do large-scale interstate drug dealing. These are the areas where we're really trying to focus.

Steve Kroft: So the message is, if you're licensed in the state of Colorado and you follow the law, then you should be okay.

James Cole: Each case is going to rise and fall on its own unique facts. Any of that is still in violation of the Controlled Substances Act of the federal law. We're not interested in bothering people who are sick and are using it in the recommendation of a doctor. We are concerned with people who are using it as a pretext to become large-scale drug dealers.

Steve Kroft: So it sounds like the federal government is tolerating it.

Sam Kamin: It is tolerating it. And at the same time is below the surface, trying to make it very difficult for these folks. It's doing it through banking regulations. If you talk to dispensary owners, one of the things that they will lament is, no one will do business with us.

The Justice Department has let it be known if financial institutions do business with medical marijuana centers, they could be at risk for civil or criminal prosecution under the Controlled Substances Act or federal money laundering statutes. It's made it difficult, if not impossible for dispensaries to get loans, open company bank accounts or process patients' credit cards.

Sam Kamin: It can't stay like this. Either we have to have settled expectations that this is a federal crime, the federal government's not going to tolerate it. Or the federal government is going to let states like Colorado regulate it, tax it, experiment with it. To have it exist in both worlds simultaneously is unsustainable. We can't have a multimillion dollar industry built on criminal conduct.

A federal appeals court in Washington D.C. is currently hearing a case that could remove marijuana from the list of the most dangerous drugs, and into a category that would allow it to be prescribed by doctors. On the political front, the referendums in Colorado and Washington state to legalize marijuana for recreational use are considered too close to call."

I watched that 60 Minutes last night. I had no idea the Feds were for the most part looking the other way in Colorado simply because they can't get all the dealers and growers in Colorado. I love it! Make weed legal. Booze causes much more problems in society than MJ.

 

[MikeK]

There might be more deaths and accidents caused by alcohol, but that would be because alcohol is legal and pot is not.

As any seasoned police officer will attest there is a vast difference in the compared effects of alcohol and marijuana. While marijuana is a tranquilizer alcohol is responsible for most violent crime and generally agressive and irrational behavior, including conduct behind the wheel.

If marijuana were as legally available as alcohol the best source of opinion on which misuse would produce the most and the more serious consequences would be highway police. And in the opinion of the retired NJ state trooper who lives down the street from me the main problem with "stoners" is they drive too slow but they rarely have serious accidents and never are involved in road-rage incidents.