Leaked: Democrats Lied Again

[Foxfyre]

Okay, I've always been fairly good at basic math, but admit not much aptitude for the more complex stuff.

So help me out here.

How does a healthcare bill with a (rigged) price tag of just under $1 trillion reduce the deficit? This year. Or in 10 years. or in two decades?

Thank you for your concern in explaining this to me.

Simple....you raise taxes higher than the cost.

That is what the CBO evaluated.....how much tax revenue is in the bill compared to the cost of the healthcare plan.

All they needed to do was to implement in the bill tax increases that bring it to a point of lowering the deficit.

Every penny of estimated tax revenue ABOVE the estimated cost is one penny that the deficit decreases

Okay, I understand.

I will be taxed in excess of what I can expect in benefits from this legislation and therefore the deficit will be reduced.

That makes sense.

Next question while admitting that I am getting older and may not be as sharp as I used to be:

Presumably the fines imposed for not purchasing healthcare insurance will be less than the cost of the insurance. Why would I not then pay the fine instead of buy the insurance?

Thanking you again in advance for your kindly consideration of my query.

 

[Sinatra]

Okay, I've always been fairly good at basic math, but admit not much aptitude for the more complex stuff.

So help me out here.

How does a healthcare bill with a (rigged) price tag of just under $1 trillion reduce the deficit? This year. Or in 10 years. or in two decades?

Thank you for your concern in explaining this to me.

Simple....you raise taxes higher than the cost.

That is what the CBO evaluated.....how much tax revenue is in the bill compared to the cost of the healthcare plan.

All they needed to do was to implement in the bill tax increases that bring it to a point of lowering the deficit.

Every penny of estimated tax revenue ABOVE the estimated cost is one penny that the deficit decreases

Okay, I understand.

I will be taxed in excess of what I can expect in benefits from this legislation and therefore the deficit will be reduced.

That makes sense.

Next question while admitting that I am getting older and may not be as sharp as I used to be:

Presumably the fines imposed for not purchasing healthcare insurance will be less than the cost of the insurance. Why would I not then pay the fine instead of buy the insurance?

Thanking you again in advance for your kindly consideration of my query.

The fines will become higher/more severe once the legislation is in place.

The Dems didn't want to spook the public with their intended insurance police...

 

[Zoom-boing]

I asked this in another thread with no answer. How are they going to enforce the fines? What if you pay the fine and still don't get insurance? Will they have health henchmen come and throw you in jail? Exactly how are they going to enforce the mandate?

 

[Sinatra]

I asked this in another thread with no answer. How are they going to enforce the fines? What if you pay the fine and still don't get insurance? Will they have health henchmen come and throw you in jail? Exactly how are they going to enforce the mandate?

A seriously daunting logistic nightmare - the very thing the Democrats are known for.

Of course, they may also be thinking that this current legislation is temporary - that national single payer as the ONLY option for most will be following soon after, so the need to levy fines will be mute.

We are entering some truly scary times folks...

 

[Zoom-boing]

I asked this in another thread with no answer. How are they going to enforce the fines? What if you pay the fine and still don't get insurance? Will they have health henchmen come and throw you in jail? Exactly how are they going to enforce the mandate?

A seriously daunting logistic nightmare - the very thing the Democrats are known for.

Of course, they may also be thinking that this current legislation is temporary- that national single payer as the ONLY option for most will be following soon after, so the need to levy fines will be mute.

We are entering some truly scary times folks...

Nail on the head . . . check out my sig.

 

[Zander]

I asked this in another thread with no answer. How are they going to enforce the fines? What if you pay the fine and still don't get insurance? Will they have health henchmen come and throw you in jail? Exactly how are they going to enforce the mandate?

They can't enforce it and that is by design. They need to pass a broken and unrepairable piece of shit bill to lay the groundwork for a single payer system that the leftist ideologues really want.

 

[Oldandtired]

Simple....you raise taxes higher than the cost.

That is what the CBO evaluated.....how much tax revenue is in the bill compared to the cost of the healthcare plan.

All they needed to do was to implement in the bill tax increases that bring it to a point of lowering the deficit.

Every penny of estimated tax revenue ABOVE the estimated cost is one penny that the deficit decreases

Okay, I understand.

I will be taxed in excess of what I can expect in benefits from this legislation and therefore the deficit will be reduced.

That makes sense.

Next question while admitting that I am getting older and may not be as sharp as I used to be:

Presumably the fines imposed for not purchasing healthcare insurance will be less than the cost of the insurance. Why would I not then pay the fine instead of buy the insurance?

Thanking you again in advance for your kindly consideration of my query.

The fines will become higher/more severe once the legislation is in place.

The Dems didn't want to spook the public with their intended insurance police...

As I said in another post...here is an example.....but I will change the numbers to reflect the higher fines than they admit.

It will cost a man 7K for insurance
Hios fine will be 3K a year if caught
He gives it a whirl.

3 years goes by and he is not caught. 21K saved
The IRS catches him.....9k in fines.
12K saved even though he was caught red handed.

Heck of a return on his money....no?

 

[Sinatra]

I asked this in another thread with no answer. How are they going to enforce the fines? What if you pay the fine and still don't get insurance? Will they have health henchmen come and throw you in jail? Exactly how are they going to enforce the mandate?

They can't enforce it and that is by design. They need to pass a broken and unrepairable piece of shit bill to lay the groundwork for a single payer system that the leftist ideologues really want.

Looks like we are all on the same page here.


Here we have footage of Obama and Pelosi when confronted with America's widespread dissatisfaction with this healthcare legislation...


P.S. - Obama's not driving...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z88U915uq8]YouTube - Thelma & Louise:Ending Scene[/ame]

 

[Oldandtired]

And the example below is exactly why the HCR is going to cost us a heck of a lot of money.

People are greedy. They will game the game.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Thanks, I will add this to my list of crazy threads about the healthcare bill before it passes.

Oh and the cbo numbers are lies....LIES I tell you!

Nope...not lies.

Simply numbers that were calculated based strictly on the information Congress offers them.

Maybe it would be a little more genuine to offer ALL of the data to truly evaluate the cost.

But why? The people are sheep in the eyes opf this administration. We can easily fool them becuase we have tools like Zona out there sucking on our dic......

Oh No! Not those pesky number variants again!

kinda like the global warming stats. Those pesky things. Too bad they can be manipulated so easily to fit a host of agendas.

 

[beowolfe]

A nice trick of pulling out a multi-billions plan known as "Doc Fix" so that the revised healthcare bill appears to look like it actually reduces the deficit.

Actually, the Democrats are planning on moving ahead with the Doc Fix as soon as the healthcare bill is passed - to the tune of 371 BILLION Dollars.

So much for helping curb the deficit.

These Democrat leaders are outright liars to the American people.

Utterly sickening!

____

EXCLUSIVE -- Democrats plan doc fix after reform

Democrats are planning to introduce legislation later this spring that would permanently repeal annual Medicare cuts to doctors, but are warning lawmakers not to talk about it for fear that it will complicate their push to pass comprehensive health reform. The plans undercut the party's message that reform lowers the deficit, according to a memo obtained by POLITICO.

Democrats removed the so-called doc fix from the reform legislation last year because its $371-billion price tag would have made it impossible for Democrats to claim that their bill reduces the deficit. Republicans have argued for months that by stripping the doc fix from the bill, Democrats were playing a shell game.


EXCLUSIVE -- Democrats plan doc fix after reform - Live Pulse - POLITICO.com

UPDATE: Democrats challenge authenticity of ‘doc fix’ memo


It looks like either the Dems are running away from 'their' memo, or the GOP forged the darn thing. It will be interesting to watch this one play out.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I asked this in another thread with no answer. How are they going to enforce the fines? What if you pay the fine and still don't get insurance? Will they have health henchmen come and throw you in jail? Exactly how are they going to enforce the mandate?

FireFly posted this in another thread.

16,500 more IRS agents needed to enforce Obamacare | Washington Examiner

Don't like the source? Here

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/IRS_Power_Report.pdf

This is all making me sick to my stomach.

 

[beowolfe]

I asked this in another thread with no answer. How are they going to enforce the fines? What if you pay the fine and still don't get insurance? Will they have health henchmen come and throw you in jail? Exactly how are they going to enforce the mandate?

FireFly posted this in another thread.

16,500 more IRS agents needed to enforce Obamacare | Washington Examiner

Don't like the source? Here

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/IRS_Power_Report.pdf

This is all making me sick to my stomach.

You'll have to forgive us if we don't take the GOP at their word. It's not lilke they've been the bastions of honesty during this entire debate.

 

[Gatekeeper]

I asked this in another thread with no answer. How are they going to enforce the fines? What if you pay the fine and still don't get insurance? Will they have health henchmen come and throw you in jail? Exactly how are they going to enforce the mandate?

FireFly posted this in another thread.

16,500 more IRS agents needed to enforce Obamacare | Washington Examiner

Don't like the source? Here

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/IRS_Power_Report.pdf

This is all making me sick to my stomach.

Can someone say, Intimidating?......nahhhh, our government "lean on us" now, would they?

 

[Sinatra]

That's right - the HUGE expansion of the IRS is part of this healthcare "reform".

Disgusting...

 

[Truthmatters]

And yet more costs are revealed in this leaked memo. The Democrats are admitting that once this version of healthcare is passed, billions more of costs will be added to the Medicare system via repealing the PPF which was put in place to attempt to control rising costs.

So the White House and Democrat leaders borrowed $500 billion for Medicare to help pay for the Obamacare, but plan to then turn around and add billions more in costs to Medicare once Obamacare is passed.

My God people - the corruption and dishonesty within this entire process is utterly shameful even by Washington DC standars.

The price to pay for such legislative chaos will be enormous...
___

“This is not the last step, but the next step toward real health system reform. We will remain actively engaged with Congress and the administration to ensure that before Congress adjourns there are additional important changes to our health system," AMA president James Rohack said. "Congress must act to preserve access to care for seniors and military families by permanently repealing the Medicare physician payment formula that will cut Medicare payments by 21 percent next month.”


EXCLUSIVE -- Democrats plan doc fix after reform - Live Pulse - POLITICO.com

UPDATE: Democrats challenge authenticity of ?doc fix? memo - Live Pulse - POLITICO.com


March 19, 2010
Categories:House .UPDATE: Democrats challenge authenticity of ‘doc fix’ memo
An earlier post in this spot detailed what was purported by Republicans to be an internal Democratic memo regarding the upcoming health reform vote Sunday. Democratic leadership has challenged the authenticity of the memo. POLITICO has removed the memo and the details about it until we can absolutely verify the document’s origin.

 

[MajikMyst]

Ah yes.. Yet another thread of how the uninformed are to stupid to either see or know the facts..

Thanks for playing along.. Sadly, you neotards can't say your just a dumb blonde as an excuse.. Well.. CAgirl prolly could..

Ok.. So here is your excuse.. Simply tell everyone you watch Faux Noise and listen to Lush Limpnoodles.. That will explain everything..

 

[Gatekeeper]

Ah yes.. Yet another thread of how the uninformed are to stupid to either see or know the facts..

Thanks for playing along.. Sadly, you neotards can't say your just a dumb blonde as an excuse.. Well.. CAgirl prolly could..

Ok.. So here is your excuse.. Simply tell everyone you watch Faux Noise and listen to Lush Limpnoodles.. That will explain everything..

Well, I for one do NOT watch Fox news and their compliment of clowns and entertainers, and haven't for a while now. Maybe I should go back once in a while, but I'd rather.........well, never mind.

Maybe I'll just wait for the "Chit" to hit the fan, then scrape off some of the residue and post comments about my findings.
Watching the news anymore, like in here at times, it like trying to read a newspaper on a 78 RPM turntable, the SPIN makes one dizzy. Sorry, it's just not time for a serious answer.

 

[Foxfyre]

I asked this in another thread with no answer. How are they going to enforce the fines? What if you pay the fine and still don't get insurance? Will they have health henchmen come and throw you in jail? Exactly how are they going to enforce the mandate?

FireFly posted this in another thread.

16,500 more IRS agents needed to enforce Obamacare | Washington Examiner

Don't like the source? Here

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/IRS_Power_Report.pdf

This is all making me sick to my stomach.

There is so much they're hiding or just not telling us. Or the talking point of the day is the one His Arrogance uses every time he is asked a difficult question: "Let's don't talk about process--the process is always messy--let's talk about the benefits in this legislation. . . ."

Heath Wilson, former congresswoman from New Mexico, referred us to this Weekly Standard article as a really good summary of what is in this legislation that we know about at this time:

Excerpt

To see the bill’s true first-decade costs, we need to start the clock when the costs would actually start in any meaningful way: in 2014. The CBO says that Obamacare would cost $2.0 trillion in the bill’s real first decade (from 2014 to 2023) — and much more in the decades to come.

But $2.0 trillion wouldn’t be the total ten-year costs. Instead, that would merely be the “gross cost of coverage provisions.” Based on earlier incarnations of the proposed overhaul, the total costs would be about a third higher (the exact number can’t be gleaned from the CBO’s analysis, which is only preliminary and is not a full scoring) — making the total price-tag between $2.5 and $3 trillion over the bill’s real first decade.

How would we pay for all of this? According to the CBO, by diverting $1.1 trillion away from already barely-solvent Medicare and spending it on Obamacare, and by increasing taxes on the American people by over $1 trillion. Among the Medicare cuts would be cuts of $25,000 in Medicare Advantage benefits per enrollee — up from $21,000 in the previous scoring. To be clear, those living in South Florida wouldn’t have to worry about this, as the newly politicized nature of health care would cause them to be exempted. These cuts would affect only less-fortunate seniors, namely those living in just about any other part of the country.

CBO: Obamacare Would Cost Over $2 Trillion | The Weekly Standard

Note the increase from $21k to $25k in savings from Medicare Advantage benefits per enrollee. That is because the administration/Congress upped the number they gave CBO to score the bill. CBO HAS to use the numbers they are given to do the scoring so whatever number they come up with is based on the numbers furnished to them by those who want the bill scored.

So, where did the other $4,000 come from? Again I am no math whiz, but the term 'made up out of thin air' comes to mind.

 

[beowolfe]

That's right - the HUGE expansion of the IRS is part of this healthcare "reform".

Disgusting...

Just finished perusing the House bill. There is a lot of talk about the IRS in there, but nothing I can find about the IRS hiring thousands of new agents. One interesting tidbit was an answer to how the government is going to enfore the penalty against those who don't buy health insurance. From what I read, it appears they are simply going to keep part of your income tax refund (for those who get a refund). I didn't see anything that would tell me how they will deal with those who refuse to buy insurance and don't get an income tax refund.