Zone1 Lawlessness Is Not Compassionate

[SweetSue92]

The claim that Christians are immoral for not wanting our nation filled up with illegal immigrants is ignorant and disingenuous.

From start to finish, the Bible is a book of laws. Jesus Himself said, "Don't think I came to abolish the law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them."--Matthew 5:17

God is a God of mercy AND of justice. Christians practice this with prison ministry, for example. We minister to criminals while not condoning the crime. We can and will "meet people where they are" without demanding that murder be made legal (?!).

Yet liberals demand we accept illegal immigrants into our nation with free housing, food, education, etc. This is not compassionate; it is lawbreaking. We have a system of asylum that demonstrates compassion WHILE YET upholding the law.

If anyone could present a rational argument as to why this is wrong, rather than just whining and name-calling, I'm all ears.

 

[rightwinger]

Jesus was a migrant

Jesus and his parents fled to Egypt to escape King Herod's persecution and the genocide of baby boys in Bethlehem.

 

[sparky]

If anyone could present a rational argument as to why this is wrong, rather than just whining and name-calling, I'm all ears.

There's a world of difference between a handup and a handout...~S~

 

[Meriweather]

Jesus was a migrant

Jesus and his parents fled to Egypt to escape King Herod's persecution and the genocide of baby boys in Bethlehem.

Sure, but it wasn't illegal to do this.

 

[SweetSue92]

Jesus was a migrant

Jesus and his parents fled to Egypt to escape King Herod's persecution and the genocide of baby boys in Bethlehem.

Even if I grant you that Joseph and Mary broke into Egypt ILLEGALLY (which we have no record of), so? Jesus was a baby; his parents sin (if we grant that) does not equal HIS SIN.

The Bible tells of Abraham lying, Moses murdering, David cheating on his wife and then killing her husband. It TELLS of it. It does not condone it.

Biblical literacy folks, please?

 

[rightwinger]

Sure, but it wasn't illegal to do this.

Would it have mattered if Jesus was fleeing for his life?

What I know about Jesus is he stood up for those who were suffering, feed the hungry, heal the sick, stand up for societies outcasts.

Todays fundamentalist Christians havent learned

 

[rightwinger]

I could not believe the far rights outrage over a Bishop pleading with Trump to show mercy.

What a Christian value….to show mercy to those who are outcasts or are suffering

Fundamentalist Christians choose Trump over Christian values

 

[SweetSue92]

Would it have mattered if Jesus was fleeing for his life?

What I know about Jesus is he stood up for those who were suffering, feed the hungry, heal the sick, stand up for societies outcasts.

Todays fundamentalist Christians havent learned

I read the Bible daily. I have read it multiples times all the way through and some Books many many times.

Yes, He did all of those things. He encouraged people to do it THEMSELVES, not by govt fiat. I have fed illegals myself, by the way, even as I oppose the system that allows them in illegally.

There is absolutely nothing immoral about this, the same way Christians minister to criminal while not endorsing murder.

 

[SweetSue92]

I could not believe the far rights outrage over a Bishop pleading with Trump to show mercy.

What a Christian value….to show mercy to those who are outcasts or are suffering

Fundamentalist Christians choose Trump over Christian values

She used her pulpit to make a political statement and berate him. She will answer for that, because her sole job is to make Christ known and glorify HIM.

 

[MarcATL]

The OP is a prime example of white nationalism, not Christianity.

 

[SweetSue92]

The OP is a prime example of white nationalism, not Christianity.

That's not a rational argument; it's whining and name-calling. Congrats for the failure.

 

[sparky]

There are sorts unable to help themselves, and then there are sorts unwilling to help themselves .....~S~

 

[Meriweather]

Yet liberals demand we accept illegal immigrants into our nation with free housing, food, education, etc. This is not compassionate; it is lawbreaking. We have a system of asylum that demonstrates compassion WHILE YET upholding the law.

I don't see it so much as dealing with Liberals, as dealing with Theorists. In theory, wouldn't it be nice to welcome all the poor into our nation. Let's open the borders. These Theorists are not the same as the practitioners who now have to deal with the fall-out of their theory while they remain above it all because the doing it not their problem. It is now ours.

We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much with so little for so long, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.

From a substitute teacher's point of view, here is my reality. Classrooms are over-crowded. They include a handful of students who do not speak English. Naturally, we do not have a handful of translators for all these different languages there to help. In presenting any given lesson, there are always a few students, speaking English, who need additional help understanding. However, I have others who need even more help understanding what I even said. (Sign language and having students who understand lend a hand as well. Which means they can't work on their own assignment as they are busy helping. And, while helping is good, they are losing time when they should be working on their own lesson.) Add in discipline problems inherent in crowded classrooms...well you get the idea.

I think all these Theorists should know why their student is not getting the education/help to which they are entitled. These Theorists should know why too many great teachers are leaving their chosen career. While Theorists are patting themselves on the back for lifting burdens from illegal immigrants, they are blind to the fact that they are placing unbearable burdens to those in every profession, every walk of life in their own country, while they are happily skipping above the mess they created for others.

That's the problem with Theorists. While they may clearly see a true problem, they are utterly blind to the true problems they are heaping on their own country's citizens that they obviously feel they are above lending a hand with.

 

[sparky]

I don't see it so much as dealing with Liberals, as dealing with Theorists. In theory, wouldn't it be nice to welcome all the poor into our nation. Let's open the borders. These Theorists are not the same as the practitioners who now have to deal with the fall-out of their theory while they remain above it all because the doing it not their problem. It is now ours.

We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much with so little for so long, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.

From a substitute teacher's point of view, here is my reality. Classrooms are over-crowded. They include a handful of students who do not speak English. Naturally, we do not have a handful of translators for all these different languages there to help. In presenting any given lesson, there are always a few students, speaking English, who need additional help understanding. However, I have others who need even more help understanding what I even said. (Sign language and having students who understand lend a hand as well. Which means they can't work on their own assignment as they are busy helping. And, while helping is good, they are losing time when they should be working on their own lesson.) Add in discipline problems inherent in crowded classrooms...well you get the idea.

I think all these Theorists should know why their student is not getting the education/help to which they are entitled. These Theorists should know why too many great teachers are leaving their chosen career. While Theorists are patting themselves on the back for lifting burdens from illegal immigrants, they are blind to the fact that they are placing unbearable burdens to those in every profession, every walk of life in their own country, while they are happily skipping above the mess they created for others.

That's the problem with Theorists. While they may clearly see a true problem, they are utterly blind to the true problems they are heaping on their own country's citizens that they obviously feel they are above lending a hand with.

or....the road to perdition is paved with good intents Meri......~S~

 

[Meriweather]

Would it have mattered if Jesus was fleeing for his life?

What I know about Jesus is he stood up for those who were suffering, feed the hungry, heal the sick, stand up for societies outcasts.

Todays fundamentalist Christians havent learned

But...Jesus did not flee for his life.

Second, I applaud that you must be taking in suffering illegal immigrants and feeding and healing them. What I don't applaud is your placing this burden on everyone else. Remember, we are required first to care for those in our family and neighborhoods. We don't abandon them to care first for outsiders.

 

[Meriweather]

or....the road to perdition is paved with good intents Meri......~S~

So true. My good intent is to have all the Theorists work in the trenches before unloading on the rest of us who are already in the trenches.

 

[alang1216]

Even if I grant you that Joseph and Mary broke into Egypt ILLEGALLY (which we have no record of), so? Jesus was a baby; his parents sin (if we grant that) does not equal HIS SIN.

So if a child is brought to this country illegally, we have an obligation to ensure that child is fed, housed, and educated?

 

[JoeB131]

The claim that Christians are immoral for not wanting our nation filled up with illegal immigrants is ignorant and disingenuous.

From start to finish, the Bible is a book of laws. Jesus Himself said, "Don't think I came to abolish the law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them."--Matthew 5:17

Okay, but here's the problem with that. It's about the MORALITY of the laws.

Many laws in the Big Book of Bronze Age Fairy Tales (AKA the Bible) would be considered unjust today. No one is going to stone you to death for working on the Sabbath. No one is going to sell you into slavery. We don't burn witches or stone homosexuals anymore. Why? Because even though these were "God's Laws", we decided they were wrong.

God didn't change his mind, we changed ours.

Now, on the topic of immigration laws, the problem is, they are horrifically broken and have been for years. Bad laws deserve to be broken.

Schindler and Wallenburg were breaking the law when they helped Jews avoid the Holocaust.

Interning Japanese Americans during World War II was "the law", but it was still immoral and wrong.

Second point. We don't follow the laws we do have. Trump wants to abolish birthright citizenship, something that has been recognized as "the law" for 126 years. He wants to dismantle the system (already broken) for people who are seeking asylum. Again, not only US Law but also something we agreed to through numerous international treaties.

This week, ICE Jackboots arrested a US Veteran of Puerto Rican ancestry because he looked too brown.

God is a God of mercy AND of justice. Christians practice this with prison ministry, for example. We minister to criminals while not condoning the crime. We can and will "meet people where they are" without demanding that murder be made legal (?!).

Are you really arguing that coming to America to make a better life for yourself (something all of our ancestors did if you aren't Native American) is on the same moral plane as murder?

Also, how was stoning someone for gathering sticks on the Sabbath either "Just" or "Merciful"?

Yet liberals demand we accept illegal immigrants into our nation with free housing, food, education, etc. This is not compassionate; it is lawbreaking.

Actually, it's PRAGMATIC. First, we need those extra bodies. Like most first-world peoples, Americans aren't reproducing at replacement rates. To make sure we are all well cared for in our nursing homes when we get old, we are going to need educated, housed, and productive immigrants to fill in those jobs and pay into those social programs.

We have a system of asylum that demonstrates compassion WHILE YET upholding the law.

No, we have a system of asylum that leaves people in limbo for years. My wife claimed asylum from China in 2017. When we tied the knot in 2023, she was STILL waiting for her hearing in court on her case. We went for a relative sponsorship instead, and that only took two years and required us to pay $4000 and submit 200 pages of documentation.

If anyone could present a rational argument as to why this is wrong, rather than just whining and name-calling, I'm all ears.

Okay, I will refrain from calling you my favorite nickname. I've given you a bunch of pretty good counter arguments.

 

[JoeB131]

Jesus was a migrant

Jesus and his parents fled to Egypt to escape King Herod's persecution and the genocide of baby boys in Bethlehem.

Ahhhhh.... I really hate when my fellow libs make this argument.

First and foremost, it's almost certainly a myth. There's no evidence that the "Slaughter of the Innocents" ever happened. It only appears in the Gospel of Matthew, a guy who was notorious for making stuff up to make Jesus' life comport with his garbled understanding of previous scripture.

The Gospel of Luke tells a completely different story about why Mary was in Bethlehem that day. Quirinius (or Cyreneus) ordered a census of Iudea as a Roman Province. (This was ten years after the death of Herod, when the Romans annexed Iudea after Herod Archelous turned out to be a complete knob.

 

[Moonglow]

You left out parts of the Bible about how foreigners should be treated.