Latest Ukrainian Peace Plan From the US...Ukraine Surrenders, NATO Cannot Expand; Russia Gives Up Nothing.

[candycorn]

AP Reporting:

Ukraine would cede territory to Russia in draft of Trump peace plan obtained by AP

President Donald Trump’s plan for ending the war in Ukraine would cede territory to Russia and limit the size of Kyiv’s military, according to a draft proposal obtained by The Associated Press.

apnews.com

Some highlights (or lowlights) from the article:

• For example, the proposal would not only bar Ukraine from joining NATO but would also prevent the alliance’s future expansion. Such a step would be a significant victory for Moscow, which views NATO as a threat.
• Putin would also gain ground he has been unable to win on the battlefield. Under the draft, Moscow would hold all the eastern Donbas region, even though approximately 14% still remains in Ukrainian hands. Ukraine’s military, currently at roughly 880,000 troops, would be reduced to 600,000.
• Under the proposal, Russia would commit to making no future attacks, something the White House views as a concession.
• Russia would also be allowed to keep half of the power generated by Europe’s largest nuclear power plant, Zaporizhzhia, which it captured from Ukraine early during the war.

There seems to be little in it for Ukraine or the US. One has to wonder on what planet such a plan ever saw the light of day.

 

[gipper]

Good. End the killing, destruction and suffering today. No matter the terms.

You need to learn even in your advanced stage of life, never support war even when your radical partisanship tells you otherwise.

 

[Harry Dresden]

AP Reporting:

Ukraine would cede territory to Russia in draft of Trump peace plan obtained by AP

President Donald Trump’s plan for ending the war in Ukraine would cede territory to Russia and limit the size of Kyiv’s military, according to a draft proposal obtained by The Associated Press.

apnews.com

Some highlights (or lowlights) from the article:

• For example, the proposal would not only bar Ukraine from joining NATO but would also prevent the alliance’s future expansion. Such a step would be a significant victory for Moscow, which views NATO as a threat.
• Putin would also gain ground he has been unable to win on the battlefield. Under the draft, Moscow would hold all the eastern Donbas region, even though approximately 14% still remains in Ukrainian hands. Ukraine’s military, currently at roughly 880,000 troops, would be reduced to 600,000.
• Under the proposal, Russia would commit to making no future attacks, something the White House views as a concession.
• Russia would also be allowed to keep half of the power generated by Europe’s largest nuclear power plant, Zaporizhzhia, which it captured from Ukraine early during the war.

There seems to be little in it for Ukraine or the US. One has to wonder on what planet such a plan ever saw the light of day.

but there is a lot for the people in that area.....no more destruction....this war has gone on long enough...

 

[Harry Dresden]

but there is a lot for the people in that area.....no more destruction....this war has gone on long enough...

wow that was real funny wasnt it candy?...have you ever been in a war candy?..

 

[candycorn]

but there is a lot for the people in that area.....no more destruction....this war has gone on long enough...

Once Russia takes over more area...what do you think they are going to do to folks who resisted them?

 

[gipper]

Once Russia takes over more area...what do you think they are going to do to folks who resisted them?

That’s not a good enough reason to continue the war. Think!

 

[Harry Dresden]

Once Russia takes over more area...what do you think they are going to do to folks who resisted them?

its that way in any end of war.....like elections war has consequences....and peace treaties.....of course the "mighty" UN can have a lot to do with the aftermath but we know how weak they are dont we?.....

 

[kyzr]

Once Russia takes over more area...what do you think they are going to do to folks who resisted them?

It looks like Russia gets the Russian speaking regions, no big deal.
You forgot to mention that the US provides security guarantees to Ukraine, which to me means that we will protect our miners who are mining rare earth materials in Ukraine.

Does Trump get any credit for ending the war? Think hard. You're welcome.

 

[candycorn]

It looks like Russia gets the Russian speaking regions, no big deal.

Except they took it by force and shouldn't be rewarded. But that doesn't really matter to you now, does it?

You forgot to mention that the US provides security guarantees to Ukraine, which to me means that we will protect our miners who are mining rare earth materials in Ukraine.

None of which is mentioned in the piece. Pipe dream?

Does Trump get any credit for ending the war?

No. Its a surrender and a lopsided deal for Russia. You can end a lot of wars if you just roll over and play dead which is what your blob has done in every case.

Think hard.

Why? Its easy to see that there is very little for Ukraine, very little for the US and a massive victory for the aggressive party--Russia. One need not study this deal in great detail to see that it is terrible for everyone but Putin.

 

[candycorn]

its that way in any end of war.....like elections war has consequences....and peace treaties.....of course the "mighty" UN can have a lot to do with the aftermath but we know how weak they are dont we?.....

Wow...so the slaughter of innocents is just a sad footnote to this terrible deal?

 

[kyzr]

Except they took it by force and shouldn't be rewarded. But that doesn't really matter to you now, does it?

When Ukraine gave up their nukes and the Budapest Memorandum said that the US, Britain, and France would guarantee their sovereignty, Russia went along since they thought they could keep control. But when the Maidan Revolution happened Ukraine became democratic and independent of Russia, Putin saw NATO encroaching too close, so he invaded, primarily to keep NATO back, similar to the US keeping Russian nukes out of Cuba. It would be a bitter pill for Putin to take letting Ukraine out of its "sphere of influence". So your question "took by force" is simplistic, a better one is "should the US go to war with Russia over Ukraine?" The obvious answer is NO.

Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

None of which is mentioned in the piece. Pipe dream?

We have a contract with Ukraine for rare earth minerals.

Ukraine and the US have finally signed a minerals deal. What does it include?

After months of tense negotiations, the U.S. and Ukraine have signed a deal that is expected to give Washington access to the country’s critical minerals and other natural resources.

apnews.com

No. Its a surrender and a lopsided deal for Russia. You can end a lot of wars if you just roll over and play dead which is what your blob has done in every case.

So you would recommend what exactly? Be specific. Knowing that Putin will fight to the death to keep Ukraine in Russia's sphere of influence.

Why? Its easy to see that there is very little for Ukraine, very little for the US and a massive victory for the aggressive party--Russia. One need not study this deal in great detail to see that it is terrible for everyone but Putin.

Ending the war is a big win for Ukraine. The longer it goes the worse it gets for Ukraine, duh. Without a peace deal Russia would take all of Ukraine. Hopefully the guy who replaces Putin forgets about Ukraine.

 

[candycorn]

We have a contract with Ukraine for rare earth minerals.

Ukraine and the US have finally signed a minerals deal. What does it include?

After months of tense negotiations, the U.S. and Ukraine have signed a deal that is expected to give Washington access to the country’s critical minerals and other natural resources.

apnews.com

Yeah, I'm sure Russia will honor the contract.

So you would recommend what exactly? Be specific. Knowing that Putin will fight to the death to keep Ukraine in Russia's sphere of influence.

We seem to be holding our own with the current strategy.

Ending the war is a big win for Ukraine. The longer it goes the worse it gets for Ukraine, duh. Without a peace deal Russia would take all of Ukraine. Hopefully the guy who replaces Putin forgets about Ukraine.

I'm sure you said the same thing when Hitler occupied Paris, right? As long as the aggressors are happy...what is there to worry about? Do you really think for a brief moment that Russia will stop at Ukraine?

Hell, not that you ever would but don't listen to me...Listen to Dan Crenshaw--REPUBLICAN out of Texas...

Rep. Dan Crenshaw says Europe should be "uncomfortably aggressive" to counter Russia

Rep. Dan Crenshaw said European leaders need to have a "much stronger message" toward Russian President Vladimir Putin on Ukraine.

www.cbsnews.com

Hope is not a strategy.

 

[kyzr]

Yeah, I'm sure Russia will honor the contract.

The contract is with Ukraine.

We seem to be holding our own with the current strategy.

Ukraine is running out of troops, Russia is 9x bigger, do the math. So you favor endless war to peace?

I'm sure you said the same thing when Hitler occupied Paris, right? As long as the aggressors are happy...what is there to worry about? Do you really think for a brief moment that Russia will stop at Ukraine?

Do you favor sending US troops to fight and die in Ukraine? Yes or no? Russia does not want to fight NATO.

Hell, not that you ever would but don't listen to me...Listen to Dan Crenshaw--REPUBLICAN out of Texas...
Hope is not a strategy.

From your link:
"Rep. Dan Crenshaw, a Texas Republican, said European leaders need to have a "much stronger message" toward Russian President Vladimir Putin on Ukraine amid efforts to kickstart peace talks and an eventual deal to end the war."

The object is a peace deal.

 

[TNHarley]

Ukraine doesnt have any cards in this. Hek, they couldnt even fund their own defense.
Doesnt seem that bad to me. Make the killing stop.

 

[TNHarley]

Europe has rejected the plan

 

[candycorn]

The contract is with Ukraine.

Which is a puppet of the Soviet Union since...you know...its about to surrender to the Soviets as part of the peace “deal”/

Ukraine is running out of troops, Russia is 9x bigger, do the math. So you favor endless war to peace?

I favor a negotiation that isn’t a lopsided surrender by Ukraine.

Do you favor sending US troops to fight and die in Ukraine? Yes or no?

No.

Russia does not want to fight NATO.

Sure...why would they? They just attack and people like you say, “Well, since you’ve already taken 500 square miles...have another 300 on us....” I like the old days of Reagan--peace through strength; not your blob’s “Peace at any costs” approach.

From your link:
"Rep. Dan Crenshaw, a Texas Republican, said European leaders need to have a "much stronger message" toward Russian President Vladimir Putin on Ukraine amid efforts to kickstart peace talks and an eventual deal to end the war."

The object is a peace deal.

What is Ukraine getting out of this peace deal?

 

[22lcidw]

Which is a puppet of the Soviet Union since...you know...its about to surrender to the Soviets as part of the peace “deal”/

I favor a negotiation that isn’t a lopsided surrender by Ukraine.

No.

Sure...why would they? They just attack and people like you say, “Well, since you’ve already taken 500 square miles...have another 300 on us....” I like the old days of Reagan--peace through strength; not your blob’s “Peace at any costs” approach.

What is Ukraine getting out of this peace deal?

An expanded NATO. Ukraine has always been in the Russian influence.

 

[AntonToo]

It looks like Russia gets the Russian speaking regions

You know nothing about Ukraine, stop talking out of your ass.

 

[AntonToo]

You forgot to mention that the US provides security guarantees to Ukraine, which to me means that we will protect our miners who are mining rare earth materials in Ukraine.

umm no, what US will do is simply evacute them.

Miners supposedly being the security guarantee for Ukraine is some seriously dumb nonsense.

 

[kyzr]

Which is a puppet of the Soviet Union since...you know...its about to surrender to the Soviets as part of the peace “deal”

That is a lie. Ukraine would keep its independence and its democracy.

I favor a negotiation that isn’t a lopsided surrender by Ukraine.

Russia says take this deal or keep fighting. So you vote to keep fighting? In case you forgot, Russia had Donbas since 2014, so I can argue Ukraine is not giving up much territory.

No.

Agreed no US troops.

Sure...why would they? They just attack and people like you say, “Well, since you’ve already taken 500 square miles...have another 300 on us....” I like the old days of Reagan--peace through strength; not your blob’s “Peace at any costs” approach.

You are arguing for an outcome that can't happen. Putin would never leave any of the territory he occupies and paid for with a million Russian casualties, so your options are take the deal or keep fighting and lose more of Ukraine.

What is Ukraine getting out of this peace deal?

Peace, prosperity, and independence from Russia. Also, no more being bombed by Russian drones.