Last known woman believed to be last survivor of transatlantic slave trade

[Correll]

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Not at this point I could not. I am too bored with it. 30 years ago? No problem.


But why do you even ask? My boredom with certain subjects does not effect IM2's behavior.


Unless you are tying to imply that my perception is based on some "hypersensitivity" to uncomfortable topics?


LOL!!! If that was your point, rest assured, it is not that.

You are not the only person who is bored, believe me. White supremacists, "Christian" crumbcakes, trump-is-god-types, anti-choice morons.

Actually white supremacists are a tiny, tiny fringe, easy to ignore.

Christians? Plenty of non-Christian places in the world, and non of them you would rather live in.


Trump has his partisans like every President and they are less annoying then their enemies.


Pro-life is a valid position. One that most of America agrees with to some extent.

 

[IM2]

I think that we should recognize the fact that history has us here now. And that so many here who want to talk about not being responsible for the past want to take us back to that past relative to a return to some kind of so called American greatness. So then if you don't want to be held responsible for that past, why do you want to MAGA or shit like that? Because to some of us, there never was a time when America was great. We are tlaking about making America great for real, not a return to when only one group got everything they now don't want to be held responsible for.

1. When we talk about a return to greatness, we are not talking about "one group got everything".

2. Do you consider yourself an American?

3. Would you like to see American power decline in the world?

When those like you talk about a return to greatness it's all about white dominion.

 

[Correll]

I think that we should recognize the fact that history has us here now. And that so many here who want to talk about not being responsible for the past want to take us back to that past relative to a return to some kind of so called American greatness. So then if you don't want to be held responsible for that past, why do you want to MAGA or shit like that? Because to some of us, there never was a time when America was great. We are tlaking about making America great for real, not a return to when only one group got everything they now don't want to be held responsible for.

1. When we talk about a return to greatness, we are not talking about "one group got everything".

2. Do you consider yourself an American?

3. Would you like to see American power decline in the world?

When those like you talk about a return to greatness it's all about white dominion.

You can read minds? Cool. What number am I thinking of?


Meanwhile in the real world, I'm a Trump supporter and I'M telling you that that is not it. What you said is moronic race baiting lies spread by our enemies.


And NOTHING Trump has done, is any kind of step to a "return to white domination". That is fucking stupid.

 

[Pogo]

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Do those laws exist today? I can stand a discussion on these historic facts AS LONG as they are not used so that any one group of people alive today bear any responsibility for these actions.

Lot of people here can't, including Correll above. What they do is start reading in all kinds of shit into a neutral bland statement of fact and then launch persecution complex. These are the klowns who waddle into a thread about lynchings or the Lost Cause or historic race riots, or whatever, and see it as their chance to craft their own Checkers Speech.

 

[Correll]

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Do those laws exist today? I can stand a discussion on these historic facts AS LONG as they are not used so that any one group of people alive today bear any responsibility for these actions.

Lot of people here can't, including Correll above. What they do is start reading in all kinds of shit into a neutral bland statement of fact and then launch persecution complex. These are the klowns who waddle into a thread about lynchings or the Lost Cause or historic race riots, or whatever, and see it as their chance to craft their own Checkers Speech.

I read the op, I read your posts on it, I didn't read any "kind of shit" into those posts. I found it interesting and said so.

IM2, is the one was suspicious on the reason for discussing it.

So, in your view, why am I the "klown" and IM2 gets a pass?

 

[Montrovant]

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Do those laws exist today? I can stand a discussion on these historic facts AS LONG as they are not used so that any one group of people alive today bear any responsibility for these actions.

Lot of people here can't, including Correll above. What they do is start reading in all kinds of shit into a neutral bland statement of fact and then launch persecution complex. These are the klowns who waddle into a thread about lynchings or the Lost Cause or historic race riots, or whatever, and see it as their chance to craft their own Checkers Speech.

There isn't all that much "reading in" necessary with IM2's posts. He's got a history on this site of posts about how bad whites are. To be fair to him, there have been plenty of posts from people talking about how bad blacks are, too.

However, did you not notice that earlier in the thread, IM2 commented about Correll and said the comment was based on his posts in this section of the site? That sort of thing isn't uncommon in the Race Relations section; posters commenting about other posters based on what they've said in other threads.

 

[IM2]

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Do those laws exist today? I can stand a discussion on these historic facts AS LONG as they are not used so that any one group of people alive today bear any responsibility for these actions.

Lot of people here can't, including Correll above. What they do is start reading in all kinds of shit into a neutral bland statement of fact and then launch persecution complex. These are the klowns who waddle into a thread about lynchings or the Lost Cause or historic race riots, or whatever, and see it as their chance to craft their own Checkers Speech.

There isn't all that much "reading in" necessary with IM2's posts. He's got a history on this site of posts about how bad whites are. To be fair to him, there have been plenty of posts from people talking about how bad blacks are, too.

However, did you not notice that earlier in the thread, IM2 commented about Correll and said the comment was based on his posts in this section of the site? That sort of thing isn't uncommon in the Race Relations section; posters commenting about other posters based on what they've said in other threads.

No, my history is about how bad racist whites are. Let's start making that distinction because I'm fucking tired of the whining. All whites are not bad, but the mother fucking whites who are racists are the problem. Learn to distinguish instead of letting white fragility fuck your mind up.

 

[Pogo]

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Do those laws exist today? I can stand a discussion on these historic facts AS LONG as they are not used so that any one group of people alive today bear any responsibility for these actions.

Lot of people here can't, including Correll above. What they do is start reading in all kinds of shit into a neutral bland statement of fact and then launch persecution complex. These are the klowns who waddle into a thread about lynchings or the Lost Cause or historic race riots, or whatever, and see it as their chance to craft their own Checkers Speech.

There isn't all that much "reading in" necessary with IM2's posts. He's got a history on this site of posts about how bad whites are. To be fair to him, there have been plenty of posts from people talking about how bad blacks are, too.

However, did you not notice that earlier in the thread, IM2 commented about Correll and said the comment was based on his posts in this section of the site? That sort of thing isn't uncommon in the Race Relations section; posters commenting about other posters based on what they've said in other threads.

I don't know about any of that and it in no way should be required reading. We address the topic as stated, not mixed with some tangential anecdotal assessment from "other" unrelated threads that a given reader may or may not have even seen. It's illogical and unreasonable to require every reader to go do a "complete works of X" study just to misapply it. If a poster has some certain proclivity, let him show it. If not, then it's simply not here.

 

[Montrovant]

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Do those laws exist today? I can stand a discussion on these historic facts AS LONG as they are not used so that any one group of people alive today bear any responsibility for these actions.

Lot of people here can't, including Correll above. What they do is start reading in all kinds of shit into a neutral bland statement of fact and then launch persecution complex. These are the klowns who waddle into a thread about lynchings or the Lost Cause or historic race riots, or whatever, and see it as their chance to craft their own Checkers Speech.

There isn't all that much "reading in" necessary with IM2's posts. He's got a history on this site of posts about how bad whites are. To be fair to him, there have been plenty of posts from people talking about how bad blacks are, too.

However, did you not notice that earlier in the thread, IM2 commented about Correll and said the comment was based on his posts in this section of the site? That sort of thing isn't uncommon in the Race Relations section; posters commenting about other posters based on what they've said in other threads.

No, my history is about how bad racist whites are. Let's start making that distinction because I'm fucking tired of the whining. All whites are not bad, but the mother fucking whites who are racists are the problem. Learn to distinguish instead of letting white fragility fuck your mind up.

You have a tendency to not make that distinction yourself in a lot of posts, at least in those I've seen from you. Hell, in this very comment you say "Learn to distinguish instead of letting white fragility fuck your mind up," which sounds like a blanket condemnation of whites. I get it, you deal with a bunch of anti-black racist comments on this board. There's plenty of racist assholes on USMB. That said, you do still tend to paint with a pretty broad brush where whites are concerned.

We're getting pretty far afield from the OP here, though. I'm happy to leave this as an 'agree to disagree' sort of thing and move on.

 

[IM2]

Montrovant seems to question sometimes just to be questioning. Corrells every post is him coming from a position of white male victimhood. We don't need to go out of this thread to look for it.

 

[Montrovant]

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Do those laws exist today? I can stand a discussion on these historic facts AS LONG as they are not used so that any one group of people alive today bear any responsibility for these actions.

Lot of people here can't, including Correll above. What they do is start reading in all kinds of shit into a neutral bland statement of fact and then launch persecution complex. These are the klowns who waddle into a thread about lynchings or the Lost Cause or historic race riots, or whatever, and see it as their chance to craft their own Checkers Speech.

There isn't all that much "reading in" necessary with IM2's posts. He's got a history on this site of posts about how bad whites are. To be fair to him, there have been plenty of posts from people talking about how bad blacks are, too.

However, did you not notice that earlier in the thread, IM2 commented about Correll and said the comment was based on his posts in this section of the site? That sort of thing isn't uncommon in the Race Relations section; posters commenting about other posters based on what they've said in other threads.

I don't know about any of that and it in no way should be required reading. We address the topic as stated, not mixed with some tangential anecdotal assessment from "other" unrelated threads that a given reader may or may not have even seen. It's illogical and unreasonable to require every reader to go do a "complete works of X" study just to misapply it. If a poster has some certain proclivity, let him show it. If not, then it's simply not here.

Meh, if I don't have any experience with the posters involved, I usually think it's best to ignore the more personal byplay.

 

[Pogo]

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Do those laws exist today? I can stand a discussion on these historic facts AS LONG as they are not used so that any one group of people alive today bear any responsibility for these actions.

Lot of people here can't, including Correll above. What they do is start reading in all kinds of shit into a neutral bland statement of fact and then launch persecution complex. These are the klowns who waddle into a thread about lynchings or the Lost Cause or historic race riots, or whatever, and see it as their chance to craft their own Checkers Speech.

There isn't all that much "reading in" necessary with IM2's posts. He's got a history on this site of posts about how bad whites are. To be fair to him, there have been plenty of posts from people talking about how bad blacks are, too.

However, did you not notice that earlier in the thread, IM2 commented about Correll and said the comment was based on his posts in this section of the site? That sort of thing isn't uncommon in the Race Relations section; posters commenting about other posters based on what they've said in other threads.

I don't know about any of that and it in no way should be required reading. We address the topic as stated, not mixed with some tangential anecdotal assessment from "other" unrelated threads that a given reader may or may not have even seen. It's illogical and unreasonable to require every reader to go do a "complete works of X" study just to misapply it. If a poster has some certain proclivity, let him show it. If not, then it's simply not here.

Meh, if I don't have any experience with the posters involved, I usually think it's best to ignore the more personal byplay.

In this case a poster (Correll I think) made an accusation and I invited him to document it, and he couldn't. That tends to take the wind out of those accusation sails, and that's a good thing because it blows away dishonesty.

 

[IM2]

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Do those laws exist today? I can stand a discussion on these historic facts AS LONG as they are not used so that any one group of people alive today bear any responsibility for these actions.

Lot of people here can't, including Correll above. What they do is start reading in all kinds of shit into a neutral bland statement of fact and then launch persecution complex. These are the klowns who waddle into a thread about lynchings or the Lost Cause or historic race riots, or whatever, and see it as their chance to craft their own Checkers Speech.

There isn't all that much "reading in" necessary with IM2's posts. He's got a history on this site of posts about how bad whites are. To be fair to him, there have been plenty of posts from people talking about how bad blacks are, too.

However, did you not notice that earlier in the thread, IM2 commented about Correll and said the comment was based on his posts in this section of the site? That sort of thing isn't uncommon in the Race Relations section; posters commenting about other posters based on what they've said in other threads.

No, my history is about how bad racist whites are. Let's start making that distinction because I'm fucking tired of the whining. All whites are not bad, but the mother fucking whites who are racists are the problem. Learn to distinguish instead of letting white fragility fuck your mind up.

You have a tendency to not make that distinction yourself in a lot of posts, at least in those I've seen from you. Hell, in this very comment you say "Learn to distinguish instead of letting white fragility fuck your mind up," which sounds like a blanket condemnation of whites. I get it, you deal with a bunch of anti-black racist comments on this board. There's plenty of racist assholes on USMB. That said, you do still tend to paint with a pretty broad brush where whites are concerned.

We're getting pretty far afield from the OP here, though. I'm happy to leave this as an 'agree to disagree' sort of thing and move on.

You seem unable to not allow white fragility to get you. I have ALWAYS stated the term white racism and white racists. The fact that you and other whites assume that talking about policies that all whites did benefit from is painting with some kind of broad brush is what defines white fragility. White fragility is a term created by a white person. Just like white privilege is a term created by a white person, so then the two people who created both terms are painting white people with that broad brush.

Basically I'm out of patience with whining white folks who get butthurt because we mention documented history, public policy and law. If you are white and don't like how things are being portrayed, then that's your problem. Things should not have been done as they were and furthermore they should not be continuing to be done as they are now.

When the policies and laws were implemented, there was no concern about the broad bat that was used to beat us as non whites over the head with poverty, poor housing, lack of jobs, etc. And I am tired of how some whites want everything to revolve around their feelings, when ours have been getting pounded for generations.

 

[Montrovant]

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Do those laws exist today? I can stand a discussion on these historic facts AS LONG as they are not used so that any one group of people alive today bear any responsibility for these actions.

Lot of people here can't, including Correll above. What they do is start reading in all kinds of shit into a neutral bland statement of fact and then launch persecution complex. These are the klowns who waddle into a thread about lynchings or the Lost Cause or historic race riots, or whatever, and see it as their chance to craft their own Checkers Speech.

There isn't all that much "reading in" necessary with IM2's posts. He's got a history on this site of posts about how bad whites are. To be fair to him, there have been plenty of posts from people talking about how bad blacks are, too.

However, did you not notice that earlier in the thread, IM2 commented about Correll and said the comment was based on his posts in this section of the site? That sort of thing isn't uncommon in the Race Relations section; posters commenting about other posters based on what they've said in other threads.

No, my history is about how bad racist whites are. Let's start making that distinction because I'm fucking tired of the whining. All whites are not bad, but the mother fucking whites who are racists are the problem. Learn to distinguish instead of letting white fragility fuck your mind up.

You have a tendency to not make that distinction yourself in a lot of posts, at least in those I've seen from you. Hell, in this very comment you say "Learn to distinguish instead of letting white fragility fuck your mind up," which sounds like a blanket condemnation of whites. I get it, you deal with a bunch of anti-black racist comments on this board. There's plenty of racist assholes on USMB. That said, you do still tend to paint with a pretty broad brush where whites are concerned.

We're getting pretty far afield from the OP here, though. I'm happy to leave this as an 'agree to disagree' sort of thing and move on.

You seem unable to not allow white fragility to get you. I have ALWAYS stated the term white racism and white racists. The fact that you and other whites assume that talking about policies that all whites did benefit from is painting with some kind of broad brush is what defines white fragility. White fragility is a term created by a white person. Just like white privilege is a term created by a white person, so then the two people who created both terms are painting white people with that broad brush.

Basically I'm out of patience with whining white folks who get butthurt because we mention documented history, public policy and law. If you are white and don't like how things are being portrayed, then that's your problem. Things should not have been done as they were and furthermore they should not be continuing to be done as they are now.

When the policies and laws were implemented, there was no concern about the broad bat that was used to beat us as non whites over the head with poverty, poor housing, lack of jobs, etc. And I am tired of how some whites want everything to revolve around their feelings, when ours have been getting pounded for generations.

Like I said, getting off topic, agree to disagree. Or even just disagree, but stick closer to the OP.

 

[Lysistrata]

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Not at this point I could not. I am too bored with it. 30 years ago? No problem.


But why do you even ask? My boredom with certain subjects does not effect IM2's behavior.


Unless you are tying to imply that my perception is based on some "hypersensitivity" to uncomfortable topics?


LOL!!! If that was your point, rest assured, it is not that.

You are not the only person who is bored, believe me. White supremacists, "Christian" crumbcakes, trump-is-god-types, anti-choice morons.

Actually white supremacists are a tiny, tiny fringe, easy to ignore.

Christians? Plenty of non-Christian places in the world, and non of them you would rather live in.


Trump has his partisans like every President and they are less annoying then their enemies.


Pro-life is a valid position. One that most of America agrees with to some extent.

I meant the phony Christians. The grahams, the perkins, the falwell, the jeffress. Pro-life is not a "valid position" as it extends beyond the "religious" organizations to involve a demand that the entire society make their personal decisions according to the beliefs of sects to which they do not belong. I personally have not had an abortion, but the numbers of people who have had one provides a baseline of the numbers of people who disagree with you. The beliefs of these people have not been studied, but it is obvious that they disagree with you. The beliefs of the men involved have not been studied, either.

 

[Correll]

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Do those laws exist today? I can stand a discussion on these historic facts AS LONG as they are not used so that any one group of people alive today bear any responsibility for these actions.

Lot of people here can't, including Correll above. What they do is start reading in all kinds of shit into a neutral bland statement of fact and then launch persecution complex. These are the klowns who waddle into a thread about lynchings or the Lost Cause or historic race riots, or whatever, and see it as their chance to craft their own Checkers Speech.

There isn't all that much "reading in" necessary with IM2's posts. He's got a history on this site of posts about how bad whites are. To be fair to him, there have been plenty of posts from people talking about how bad blacks are, too.

However, did you not notice that earlier in the thread, IM2 commented about Correll and said the comment was based on his posts in this section of the site? That sort of thing isn't uncommon in the Race Relations section; posters commenting about other posters based on what they've said in other threads.

No, my history is about how bad racist whites are. Let's start making that distinction because I'm fucking tired of the whining. All whites are not bad, but the mother fucking whites who are racists are the problem. Learn to distinguish instead of letting white fragility fuck your mind up.

Your history is you being racist.

 

[Correll]

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Do those laws exist today? I can stand a discussion on these historic facts AS LONG as they are not used so that any one group of people alive today bear any responsibility for these actions.

Lot of people here can't, including Correll above. What they do is start reading in all kinds of shit into a neutral bland statement of fact and then launch persecution complex. These are the klowns who waddle into a thread about lynchings or the Lost Cause or historic race riots, or whatever, and see it as their chance to craft their own Checkers Speech.

There isn't all that much "reading in" necessary with IM2's posts. He's got a history on this site of posts about how bad whites are. To be fair to him, there have been plenty of posts from people talking about how bad blacks are, too.

However, did you not notice that earlier in the thread, IM2 commented about Correll and said the comment was based on his posts in this section of the site? That sort of thing isn't uncommon in the Race Relations section; posters commenting about other posters based on what they've said in other threads.

I don't know about any of that and it in no way should be required reading. We address the topic as stated, not mixed with some tangential anecdotal assessment from "other" unrelated threads that a given reader may or may not have even seen. It's illogical and unreasonable to require every reader to go do a "complete works of X" study just to misapply it. If a poster has some certain proclivity, let him show it. If not, then it's simply not here.

Soooo, in this thread, I c

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Do those laws exist today? I can stand a discussion on these historic facts AS LONG as they are not used so that any one group of people alive today bear any responsibility for these actions.

Lot of people here can't, including Correll above. What they do is start reading in all kinds of shit into a neutral bland statement of fact and then launch persecution complex. These are the klowns who waddle into a thread about lynchings or the Lost Cause or historic race riots, or whatever, and see it as their chance to craft their own Checkers Speech.

There isn't all that much "reading in" necessary with IM2's posts. He's got a history on this site of posts about how bad whites are. To be fair to him, there have been plenty of posts from people talking about how bad blacks are, too.

However, did you not notice that earlier in the thread, IM2 commented about Correll and said the comment was based on his posts in this section of the site? That sort of thing isn't uncommon in the Race Relations section; posters commenting about other posters based on what they've said in other threads.

I don't know about any of that and it in no way should be required reading. We address the topic as stated, not mixed with some tangential anecdotal assessment from "other" unrelated threads that a given reader may or may not have even seen. It's illogical and unreasonable to require every reader to go do a "complete works of X" study just to misapply it. If a poster has some certain proclivity, let him show it. If not, then it's simply not here.

Meh, if I don't have any experience with the posters involved, I usually think it's best to ignore the more personal byplay.

In this case a poster (Correll I think) made an accusation and I invited him to document it, and he couldn't. That tends to take the wind out of those accusation sails, and that's a good thing because it blows away dishonesty.

I'm the one that agreed with you about this being interesting. IM2, is the one that questioned the motive of discussing it.

How in the world did you get from that, to, ME being the bad guy?

 

[Correll]

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Do those laws exist today? I can stand a discussion on these historic facts AS LONG as they are not used so that any one group of people alive today bear any responsibility for these actions.

Lot of people here can't, including Correll above. What they do is start reading in all kinds of shit into a neutral bland statement of fact and then launch persecution complex. These are the klowns who waddle into a thread about lynchings or the Lost Cause or historic race riots, or whatever, and see it as their chance to craft their own Checkers Speech.

There isn't all that much "reading in" necessary with IM2's posts. He's got a history on this site of posts about how bad whites are. To be fair to him, there have been plenty of posts from people talking about how bad blacks are, too.

However, did you not notice that earlier in the thread, IM2 commented about Correll and said the comment was based on his posts in this section of the site? That sort of thing isn't uncommon in the Race Relations section; posters commenting about other posters based on what they've said in other threads.

No, my history is about how bad racist whites are. Let's start making that distinction because I'm fucking tired of the whining. All whites are not bad, but the mother fucking whites who are racists are the problem. Learn to distinguish instead of letting white fragility fuck your mind up.

You have a tendency to not make that distinction yourself in a lot of posts, at least in those I've seen from you. Hell, in this very comment you say "Learn to distinguish instead of letting white fragility fuck your mind up," which sounds like a blanket condemnation of whites. I get it, you deal with a bunch of anti-black racist comments on this board. There's plenty of racist assholes on USMB. That said, you do still tend to paint with a pretty broad brush where whites are concerned.

We're getting pretty far afield from the OP here, though. I'm happy to leave this as an 'agree to disagree' sort of thing and move on.

You seem unable to not allow white fragility to get you......

I read to here and was done with your being a retarded racist.

 

[Correll]

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Do those laws exist today? I can stand a discussion on these historic facts AS LONG as they are not used so that any one group of people alive today bear any responsibility for these actions.

Lot of people here can't, including Correll above. What they do is start reading in all kinds of shit into a neutral bland statement of fact and then launch persecution complex. These are the klowns who waddle into a thread about lynchings or the Lost Cause or historic race riots, or whatever, and see it as their chance to craft their own Checkers Speech.

There isn't all that much "reading in" necessary with IM2's posts. He's got a history on this site of posts about how bad whites are. To be fair to him, there have been plenty of posts from people talking about how bad blacks are, too.

However, did you not notice that earlier in the thread, IM2 commented about Correll and said the comment was based on his posts in this section of the site? That sort of thing isn't uncommon in the Race Relations section; posters commenting about other posters based on what they've said in other threads.

No, my history is about how bad racist whites are. Let's start making that distinction because I'm fucking tired of the whining. All whites are not bad, but the mother fucking whites who are racists are the problem. Learn to distinguish instead of letting white fragility fuck your mind up.

You have a tendency to not make that distinction yourself in a lot of posts, at least in those I've seen from you. Hell, in this very comment you say "Learn to distinguish instead of letting white fragility fuck your mind up," which sounds like a blanket condemnation of whites. I get it, you deal with a bunch of anti-black racist comments on this board. There's plenty of racist assholes on USMB. That said, you do still tend to paint with a pretty broad brush where whites are concerned.

We're getting pretty far afield from the OP here, though. I'm happy to leave this as an 'agree to disagree' sort of thing and move on.

You seem unable to not allow white fragility to get you......

I read to here and was done with your being a retarded racist.

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Not at this point I could not. I am too bored with it. 30 years ago? No problem.


But why do you even ask? My boredom with certain subjects does not effect IM2's behavior.


Unless you are tying to imply that my perception is based on some "hypersensitivity" to uncomfortable topics?


LOL!!! If that was your point, rest assured, it is not that.

You are not the only person who is bored, believe me. White supremacists, "Christian" crumbcakes, trump-is-god-types, anti-choice morons.

Actually white supremacists are a tiny, tiny fringe, easy to ignore.

Christians? Plenty of non-Christian places in the world, and non of them you would rather live in.


Trump has his partisans like every President and they are less annoying then their enemies.


Pro-life is a valid position. One that most of America agrees with to some extent.

I meant the phony Christians. The grahams, the perkins, the falwell, the jeffress. Pro-life is not a "valid position" as it extends beyond the "religious" organizations to involve a demand that the entire society make their personal decisions according to the beliefs of sects to which they do not belong. I personally have not had an abortion, but the numbers of people who have had one provides a baseline of the numbers of people who disagree with you. The beliefs of these people have not been studied, but it is obvious that they disagree with you. The beliefs of the men involved have not been studied, either.

Sure it is. Every law, demands that society make their personal decisions based on what the beliefs of other groups are.


You just want to pretend otherwise, because you know that your personal position, on this issue, is very unpopular.

 

[Lysistrata]

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Do those laws exist today? I can stand a discussion on these historic facts AS LONG as they are not used so that any one group of people alive today bear any responsibility for these actions.

Lot of people here can't, including Correll above. What they do is start reading in all kinds of shit into a neutral bland statement of fact and then launch persecution complex. These are the klowns who waddle into a thread about lynchings or the Lost Cause or historic race riots, or whatever, and see it as their chance to craft their own Checkers Speech.

There isn't all that much "reading in" necessary with IM2's posts. He's got a history on this site of posts about how bad whites are. To be fair to him, there have been plenty of posts from people talking about how bad blacks are, too.

However, did you not notice that earlier in the thread, IM2 commented about Correll and said the comment was based on his posts in this section of the site? That sort of thing isn't uncommon in the Race Relations section; posters commenting about other posters based on what they've said in other threads.

No, my history is about how bad racist whites are. Let's start making that distinction because I'm fucking tired of the whining. All whites are not bad, but the mother fucking whites who are racists are the problem. Learn to distinguish instead of letting white fragility fuck your mind up.

You have a tendency to not make that distinction yourself in a lot of posts, at least in those I've seen from you. Hell, in this very comment you say "Learn to distinguish instead of letting white fragility fuck your mind up," which sounds like a blanket condemnation of whites. I get it, you deal with a bunch of anti-black racist comments on this board. There's plenty of racist assholes on USMB. That said, you do still tend to paint with a pretty broad brush where whites are concerned.

We're getting pretty far afield from the OP here, though. I'm happy to leave this as an 'agree to disagree' sort of thing and move on.

You seem unable to not allow white fragility to get you......

I read to here and was done with your being a retarded racist.

And as we blacks all know, blacks were born on America soil into slavery. But you have to question why somebody wants to point out that the last person who lived through the middle passage died during jim crow. What is this person trying to prove?

what are you trying to prove by constantly bringing up slavery and HISTORY of injustice to blacks?

That's a strange reaction.

It's the same one I get when I post in History or Race Relations (which this is) about the Tulsa or East St. Louis race riots or the history of lynchings. Certain wags (always predictable which ones) rush in to tell me to shut up. As if they expect me to hold the rug up while they sweep, rather than point out the dirt. I guess it's also the same ones who object to writing about the Lost Cause Cult.

I guess it just astounds me when somebody wants information suppressed. That's exactly why I looked up the slave ship above, because I saw the date 1860 and I knew that legal slave shipping had ceased in 1808. How can you not be curious about that?

I mean --- I learned something here. I can't figure out what the downside is to that.

IM2 is the one questioning the op. Miz Molly was questioning IM2 method of harping on past wrongs.

I agree that this historical factoid is interesting. I guess I had always assumed that there was SOME illegal shipping of slaves after the ban, but I did not know that any actual family lines had been traced like this.


There is a huge difference between learning about history and using history as a club.

Just because history might make your ancestors look bad does not mean that history is being used as a club. .....

Correct. It is when history is used as a club, to just bash a person's enemies for events long gone, that makes history into a club.


THat is not what the op is doing. It is what IM2 does ALL THE TIME.

I think that IM2 would stand up for women, Jews, Muslims, gays, Armenians. I think that he is as stand-up guy.

I know that IM2, uses history as a weapon to beat his current day enemies with. He uses it as a club.


People like him are tearing this nation apart.


HInt: THat is not going to work out well, for the women, jews, muslims, gays or Aremenians.

Could you tolerate and participate in a discussion of what certain groups went through in the history of the US? There were laws ensuring that the children of enslaved people were slaves, there were laws against teaching literacy to enslaved people, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, there were laws that stripped Native American people of their rights and uprooted them from their ancestral lands, there were laws that gave over the inheritance of women to their husbands when they married, there were laws that gave husbands the right to the earnings of their wives, there were laws that prohibited women from voting, there were laws that were designed to keep African-Americans from voting, there were laws designed to exclude the Chinese people, and so much more. Remember also, the mistreatment of people, many white men, who worked in the coal mines.

Can you stand a full discussion of what occurred in the history of this country?

Not at this point I could not. I am too bored with it. 30 years ago? No problem.


But why do you even ask? My boredom with certain subjects does not effect IM2's behavior.


Unless you are tying to imply that my perception is based on some "hypersensitivity" to uncomfortable topics?


LOL!!! If that was your point, rest assured, it is not that.

You are not the only person who is bored, believe me. White supremacists, "Christian" crumbcakes, trump-is-god-types, anti-choice morons.

Actually white supremacists are a tiny, tiny fringe, easy to ignore.

Christians? Plenty of non-Christian places in the world, and non of them you would rather live in.


Trump has his partisans like every President and they are less annoying then their enemies.


Pro-life is a valid position. One that most of America agrees with to some extent.

I meant the phony Christians. The grahams, the perkins, the falwell, the jeffress. Pro-life is not a "valid position" as it extends beyond the "religious" organizations to involve a demand that the entire society make their personal decisions according to the beliefs of sects to which they do not belong. I personally have not had an abortion, but the numbers of people who have had one provides a baseline of the numbers of people who disagree with you. The beliefs of these people have not been studied, but it is obvious that they disagree with you. The beliefs of the men involved have not been studied, either.

Sure it is. Every law, demands that society make their personal decisions based on what the beliefs of other groups are.


You just want to pretend otherwise, because you know that your personal position, on this issue, is very unpopular.

My personal position is quite popular. In Texas alone, 150 appointments for abortions were canceled to other day, so there are 150 people right there who directly disagree with you.