L.A. Mayor can go suck a hot tamale

[Ravi]

No, Ravir doesn't bestir herself to actually check anything out. She eschews legwork, and bases her posts on her faulty memory and the belief that ppl don't fully realize how clueless she really is.

Really...you are also welcome to post some real data, and not more opinion.

Seriously, I understand in a way why people are xenophobic but I don't understand why they aren't interested in the truth. I don't know if illegals are a drain or a boon for our economy and our country. Historically, I'd say they were a boon. But if you can show me how they aren't, I have no problem changing my mind. No one has ever made a case.

 

[AllieBaba]

So are you. I don't waste my time re-posting my own material when little twits tell me to because they're so dim they can't even insult me accurately.

 

[Ravi]

So are you. I don't waste my time re-posting my own material when little twits tell me to because they're so dim they can't even insult me accurately.

Was that directed at me?

I clearly stated that I don't have any. No one seems to.

The rest of your post...is there something wrong with you? Because you are probably the bitterest poster I've ever run across. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But your barbs aren't even connected to reality. And as an advertisement for Christianity...I can only imagine that Jesus must be spinning in his grave.

psst...you need to go in for retraining.

 

[jillian]

No idea who that is. Feel free to post the relevant information.

VDare is a white supremacist site.

 

[Gunny]

That's rediculous. Lets go after American business owners (granted they shouldn't hire illegeals---then again who can blame them) instead of going after the illegals.

This burns my chaps about as much as seen AMERICAN hispanics at a California school take down an American flag and re-hang it upside down underneath an American flag, shouting "MEXICO! MEXICO!." I'm all for immigrating legally into this country...but damn, if your so proud of Mexico, go back. You don't see me hanging the German, Irish, and English flags all over the place and denouncing are flags.

That was the real eye-opener that Mexico is recolonizing the South. As "prophecied" by Santa Anna.

IMO, we should go after both. Deport illegals when caught, and hurt their employer's pocketbook well enough that he doesn't soon forget.

 

[Ravi]

VDare is a white supremacist site.

Ah...

 

[Shogun]

Ravir,

with all due respect I did post three articles that convey the cost of illegal immigration. I provided 1099 info from a carpenters union, the IRS etc.. Ignore Baba, but this thread has posted evidence of the cost of illegal immigration.

 

[manifold]

what the **** does regulating what people can legally ingest have to do with a thread about illegal aliens and employment law?

Nothing at all.

But if I recall correctly, you're the one that brought up, in this very thread, my desperate need to demonstrate what a fool you can be sometimes. I was merely reminding you of the time very recently where your foolishness was demonstrated beyond compare. But you'll just be jedi-mind tricked by your own fragile ego and convince yourself that it never happened. You know, I almost envy that about you...almost.

 

[Ravi]

Ravir,

with all due respect I did post three articles that convey the cost of illegal immigration. I provided 1099 info from a carpenters union, the IRS etc.. Ignore Baba, but this thread has posted evidence of the cost of illegal immigration.

The posts on medical costs. I'll agree, that is a cost which more than likely is not being recouped. Easily fixed if you legalize the ones that are here and get them into the taxpaying system.

But I'm looking for an overall cost--maybe it isn't possible to figure out, but it would weigh their actual contribution to the economy vs. their cost to the economy.

 

[BrianH]

IMO, we should go after both. Deport illegals when caught, and hurt their employer's pocketbook well enough that he doesn't soon forget.

Yeah, I've been looking it up a little. I think the gov. should do a damn better job of enforcing the border...and business owners should abide by the law and quit hiring illegals.

I can say that aside from breaking the law...hiring a low-wage worker would be tempting for a business owner. I wouldn't do it, but I can see where some would. This kind of goes back to Americans and our willingness (or lack there of) to make low wages. This is why American products are so expensive, and other products have been outsourced overseas. Americans want to make alot of money wherever they work, and if they are not going to, they'll find something else.

I'm sure you've noticed, being a Texan, how many Mexicans you see working for the Highway Dept. You drive by a highway construction area, and you'll see 1 American out of about 20 Mexicans...and you know they're not paying them as much. Businesses can't afford to pay a slew full of American workers. I don't have any qualms doing dirty work. I made minimum wage until I got out of college, and worked at an auto-part store until I got a job. But alot of Americans aren't like this. I can't say that I blame them because of the standard of living, but something has to be done about this. That's what's bad about economics, it all ties into something else, and when that fails, the whole system does.

IMO, I think that every state should be required to domestically and economically support itself. Agriculture, animal domestication, fuel, etc....And then if trading needs to go on between the states, than it will.

 

[William Joyce]

Okay, I see you edited your post.

The link was an opinion piece. Show me the actual, credible data.

It's found through the link to Borjas' work.

But what does it matter? You wouldn't be swayed by the facts no matter how high stacked. You are willfully blind to reality because reality can plausibly be deemd 'racist'. That ends the inquiry for you, and, frankly, most others, whether liberal or conservative. There's 'actual, credible data' that whites have higher IQ's than blacks, and that this is an inherited condition not susceptible of maniupation through social programs, more education spending, etc. But you wouldn't believe that, either, would you? You wouldn't say on the torture rack that whites are smarter than blacks. So knock of the posture of being open to the facts. You're only open to the facts you like.

Peter Brimelow writes: Everyone knows, or concedes, that immigration is good for the economy—except economists. Amazingly, since the early 1990s, a consensus has existed among labor economists that the current unprecedented influx into America is of no particular economic benefit to native-born Americans in aggregate. I reported this consensus in my 1995 immigration book Alien Nation: Common Sense About America’s Immigration Disaster and it was confirmed by the National Research Council’s 1997 study The New Americans, the survey of the technical literature on the economics of immigration done at the behest of the Jordan Immigration Commission. Equally amazingly, this consensus has been totally ignored in the public discourse on immigration—one of the most startling failures of democratic debate of which I am aware.

No-one has more to do with the new consensus about the economics of immigration than Professor George J. Borjas, Professor of Economics and Public Policy at Harvard University’s John F. Kennedy School of Government and a Research Associate at the National Bureau of Economic Research. Borjas first began to depart from the optimistic orthodoxy with his 1990 bookFriends or Strangers: The Impact of Immigrants on the U.S. Economy. His most recent full-length treatment of the subject is his 1999 book Heaven’s Door: Immigration Policy and the American Economy. Borjas, himself a Cuban immigrant, has every emotional reason to favor immigration. That he does not is entirely a function of the data—and his scrupulous scholarship.

I spoke to him in his Cambridge office and began by asking him to summarize the findings of the NRC’s The New Americans.

 

[William Joyce]

VDare is a white supremacist site.

Anything you disagree with is "white supremacist." Yawn. Bush is a white supremacist, Cheney is a white supremacist, the American flag is white supremacist, Republicans are white supremacists, white Democrats are white supremacists, any state but New York is white supremacist, America is white supremacist, Christianity is white supremacist, guns are white supremacist, anti-abortion is white supremacist, libertarians are white supremacist, Ron Paul is white supremacist, blah blah blah. When everything is "white supremacist," the charge is deflated. So, good. Keep calling everything white supremacist. In my experience, when you tell "regular folks" they're white supremacists for opposing immigration, some even have the guts to say, "Well, I guess I'll just have to be a white supremacist."

If you want "supremacist," check out Israel.

 

[jillian]

Try again....VDARE says its eurocentric and exists to preserve euro culture in the us and oppose "multiculturalism".

nah...nothing racist about that. nope..nope...nope.

keep talking about israel. you object to arab countries that i can't set foot in, too?

of course not.

don't forget to pick up your hood at the drycleaners, Haw Haw.

 

[Gunny]

The posts on medical costs. I'll agree, that is a cost which more than likely is not being recouped. Easily fixed if you legalize the ones that are here and get them into the taxpaying system.

But I'm looking for an overall cost--maybe it isn't possible to figure out, but it would weigh their actual contribution to the economy vs. their cost to the economy.

I don't see where you get the conclusion you come to in your first paragraph. Easily fixed by legalization? I completely disagree.

The illegals that are here are for the most part unskilled labor. They are here because unscrupulous employers are paying them less than minimum wage, but it is still more than they can earn in Mexico which is where they take all those untaxed dollars but what is necessary to maintain minimal existence in communal style with other illegals.

We're not talking people that are going to break in the Who's Who list simply by granting citizenship. We're talking base-level incomes for unskilled labor.

Legalization/citizenship WILL result in their having to pay taxes. It will also result in the employer having to pay minimum wage at least. Guess what? They just lost their appeal to the employer.

He fires them and goes and picks from the next wave of illegals. Meanwhile, Mr New Citizen ends up on unemployment or welfare.

So all you really accomplish is creating a new bottom rung on the economic ladder, and most certainly just add to 40+ million that currently cannot afford health insurance.

 

[Ravi]

I don't see where you get the conclusion you come to in your first paragraph. Easily fixed by legalization? I completely disagree.

The illegals that are here are for the most part unskilled labor. They are here because unscrupulous employers are paying them less than minimum wage, but it is still more than they can earn in Mexico which is where they take all those untaxed dollars but what is necessary to maintain minimal existence in communal style with other illegals.

We're not talking people that are going to break in the Who's Who list simply by granting citizenship. We're talking base-level incomes for unskilled labor.

Legalization/citizenship WILL result in their having to pay taxes. It will also result in the employer having to pay minimum wage at least. Guess what? They just lost their appeal to the employer.

He fires them and goes and picks from the next wave of illegals. Meanwhile, Mr New Citizen ends up on unemployment or welfare.

So all you really accomplish is creating a new bottom rung on the economic ladder, and most certainly just add to 40+ million that currently cannot afford health insurance.

That might not be a bad point. Though I did read an interesting article today about the 9 billion in taxes the IRS collected last year from people with TIN's...usually numbers given to those that want to pay taxes but don't have a valid ss#. It also discussed the illegals that are owed refunds and/or social security but never file from it out of fear.

IMO, the best thing to do is leave things the way they are. The market will regulate the problem...damn, I can never get away from my troubling conservative streak.

 

[Shogun]

HA!

yea.. we NEED another Reagan era solution, don't we?



Hey, those hospitols, schools and the frickin IRS must all be fibbing because Ravir doesn't think it's that big of a deal.


silly us.

 

[Ravi]

Wasn't the Reagan era solution unconditional amnesty? I don't remember suggesting such a plan.

 

[Shogun]

essentially you are. You don't consider the saturation of illegals as a threat legitimate enough to validate a purge. Thereby, facilitating the same ends that Reagan had to buckle to.


despite what schools, hospitols and ID theft should be telling you.

 

[Ravi]

I asked you to find a cost/benefit analysis. You haven't done that yet. No one has.

I'm not for unconditional amnesty. I'm not for spend zillions of dollars to keep Mexicans in their own country. As far as I can tell there is no good answer.

Penalizing business owners will hurt the economy. Killing people at the border is just retarded.

There are benefits to allowing more people to become US citizens, the least of which is you'll have their loyalty. The draw back is that it will just encourage more people to come here.

 

[Shogun]

I asked you to find a cost/benefit analysis. You haven't done that yet. No one has.

I'm not for unconditional amnesty. I'm not for spend zillions of dollars to keep Mexicans in their own country. As far as I can tell there is no good answer.

Penalizing business owners will hurt the economy. Killing people at the border is just retarded.

There are benefits to allowing more people to become US citizens, the least of which is you'll have their loyalty. The draw back is that it will just encourage more people to come here.

Are you pulling an M14? are you refusing to play because no one has posted a thesus on the cost effectivness of UPHOLDING THE LAW?


yea.. I think loyalty every time I see another Absolut ad and see mexican flags hoisted above American flags brazenly.

Mexican flag flown over U.S. flag at Reno business

http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7162515

Yes, I think LOYALTY every time an American loses work in his own nation because you don't think it's a big deal.


Anchor babies? no big deal! Injecting kids and sick into our schools and hospitals? NO PROBLEM! Living 30 to a 2 bedroom shack in order to support a family in Mexico? NO PROBLEM! m13 gangs and the rest of the dregs of mexican culture? NO PROBLEM!