Krugman kicks von Mises acolyte while he's down

[bripat9643]

yes, he, being a libertarian progressive, also said no really good reason to collect taxes either once you understand the operational reality of the Treasury Dept!.

Your term "libertarian progressive" is an oxymoron.

 

[Kimura]

I read Kimura and basically the government can just issue bonds to cover all of our $120 Trillion of unfunded liabilities and it won't cost us a cent

Sweeeeet!

For the third time, there's no such thing as unfunded liabilities. How many times do I have to spell it out for you? In economics, this concept doesn't exist. It's not about fiat, such as $$$$ or social unit of account, it's about having the real resources and labor available to produce the real goods ans services that's needed. This is the only constraint to prosperity in this country.

 

[Kimura]

yes, he, being a libertarian progressive, also said no really good reason to collect taxes either once you understand the operational reality of the Treasury Dept!.

Your mother should have had an abortion.

I never said that, go reread the thread.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

For the third time, there's no such thing as unfunded liabilities. How many times do I have to spell it out for you? In economics, this concept doesn't exist. It's not about fiat, such as $$$$ or social unit of account, it's about having the real resources and labor available to produce the real goods ans services that's needed. This is the only constraint to prosperity in this country.

There are economist like you behind the collapse of every great Empire

 

[Kimura]

Central bank money, sure. US dollars, yes. Demand deposits, yes. FRNs, no.

When you get a tax refund, do you make a withdrawal at an ATM or your local bank? If you do, you've just used FRNs.

 

[Kimura]

There are economist like you behind the collapse of every great Empire

LOL

Good answer, keep listening to right wing nuts who think we have to dig up wealth out of the ground.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Let's start with recent history.

LOL

Good answer, keep listening to right wing nuts who think we have to dig up wealth out of the ground.

Why is the British Sterling no longer the world's reserve currency? What happened in the late 60's and early 70's to change the status of the Pound Sterling?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

LOL

Good answer, keep listening to right wing nuts who think we have to dig up wealth out of the ground.

We should back the Social Security "Trust" Fund with bonds backed by oil and gas reserves

 

[Kimura]

We should back the Social Security "Trust" Fund with bonds backed by oil and gas reserves

Oh Jesus. FDR only created the SS Trust fund for political reasons. Why not just eliminate FICA and fund SS out of the general revenue?

Again, it's not these mystical and esoteric "unfunded liabilities" which are the problem. Like I said, the only problem would be the availability of real resources in the future, which will not be an issue as long as the economy grows along with the population, and we have an increase in productivity that will enable us to have fewer workers to supply increased numbers. This is basically what's happened historically, so the only problem I see is this illogical and almost religious devotion to austerity that wants to save future needs as opposed to investing. It's retarded and has zero basis in economics .

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

When you get a tax refund, do you make a withdrawal at an ATM or your local bank? If you do, you've just used FRNs.

You're right, the Treasury doesn't spend FRNs.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Oh Jesus. FDR only created the SS Trust fund for political reasons. Why not just eliminate FICA and fund SS out of the general revenue?

Again, it's not these mystical and esoteric "unfunded liabilities" which are the problem. Like I said, the only problem would be the availability of real resources in the future, which will not be an issue as long as the economy grows along with the population, and we have an increase in productivity that will enable us to have fewer workers to supply increased numbers. This is basically what's happened historically, so the only problem I see is this illogical and almost religious devotion to austerity that wants to save future needs as opposed to investing. It's retarded and has zero basis in economics .

I agree, individuals should invest for their future need. They should start with the 12.4% of income currently spent on SS taxes.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Oh Jesus. FDR only created the SS Trust fund for political reasons. Why not just eliminate FICA and fund SS out of the general revenue?

Again, it's not these mystical and esoteric "unfunded liabilities" which are the problem. Like I said, the only problem would be the availability of real resources in the future, which will not be an issue as long as the economy grows along with the population, and we have an increase in productivity that will enable us to have fewer worker to supply increased numbers. This is basically what's happened historically, so the only problem I see is this illogical and almost religious devotion to austerity that wants to save future needs as opposed to investing. It's retarded and has zero basis in economics .

You sound like a Union leader

LOL

Good answer, keep listening to right wing nuts who think we have to dig up wealth out of the ground.

We don't even need a private sector!

Government issues debt, uses proceeds to fund Welfare state, rinse, later repeat.

 

[Kimura]

Let's start with recent history.


Why is the British Sterling no longer the world's reserve currency? What happened in the late 60's and early 70's to change the status of the Pound Sterling?

A "reserve currency" is nothing more than the preferred currency used by nation-states for the purposes if international trade. In other words, it makes things convenient. It makes things less complicated if countries use the same currency when pricing real goods and services.

If the US stops being used as the reserve currency, it would have zero affect on its ability to issue dollars. For example, Japan isn't the reserve currency and they can issue as many Yen as they need. Ditto the UK, Canada, Australia, etc.

 

[Kimura]

You sound like a Union leader

That makes zero sense but if it helps you sleep easier at night....

We don't even need a private sector!

Where did I say that? In point of fact, deficit spending creates financial assets for the private sector. Deficits add net add financial assets to the private sector, when you look at it as a balance sheet. This creates demand for real goods and services which has enabled the US to maintain income growth.

Government issues debt, uses proceeds to fund Welfare state, rinse, later repeat.

US Treasuries are nothing more than dollar deposits at the FED. They're a leftover from the days of the gold standard. If you and your conservative friends are so obsessed about this trivial accounting identity, you should should an amendment to eliminate the issuance of Treasuries. All deficits spending would accrue as excess reserves and the "national debt" would cease to exist. Problem solved, you and your buddies can focus on abortion, the gays, the Mexicans or whatever other moral outrage tickles your fancy.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. This creates demand for real goods and services which has enabled the US to maintain income growth.

dear libertarian progressive screwball, there is no free lunch, u6 is over 12%, income is down, not up despite record deficits. If deficits helped economist would know it and we'd always have a great economy since deficits are effortless to create. Please think before you post.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

your conservative friends are so obsessed about this trivial accounting identity, you should should an amendment to eliminate the issuance of Treasuries.

Republicans have introduced 30 Balanced Budget Amendments to make deficits illegal. If one had passed the debt would now be 0 rather than $17 trillion.

 

[Kimura]

your conservative friends are so obsessed about this trivial accounting identity, you should should an amendment to eliminate the issuance of Treasuries.

Republicans have introduced 30 Balanced Budget Amendments to make deficits illegal. If one had passed the debt would now be 0 rather than $17 trillion.

A balanced budget amendment is the height of stupidity. It seems hard for you and others, despite my best efforts to educate you, about the nature of sovereign debt vs private debt, the function of Treasuries, and some of the accounting issues you can't seen to grasp. Our government doesn't have to run budget deficits, and it's not even possible, given the the current account deficit.

A deficit is necessary under current conditions since it allows firms and individuals to save. For every borrower we have an lender and vice versa. In the event the non-government sector net saves, the end result is that the government sector becomes a net borrower. The savings are recycled through bond auctions which then end up back in the general economy.

The government simply can't decide to run a balanced budget. It can only occur if the private sector net saves in the aggregate and ceases to buy more imports than it sells to the foreign sector. Or, for example, if like Zee Germans, the net savings of their private sector is offset by their huge trade surplus, which hovers at 7-8% of GDP. If this was the case, as it is with these large export countries, then it would be possible to run a balanced budget since the macro-accounting works out. If the USA attempted to run a balanced budget, and didn't address the trade issue, we'd end up in a massive depression, which is what happened to the Greeks and Spaniards. Our deficits act as an artificial trade surplus.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You sound like a Union leader

That makes zero sense but if it helps you sleep easier at night....

We don't even need a private sector!

Where did I say that? In point of fact, deficit spending creates financial assets for the private sector. Deficits add net add financial assets to the private sector, when you look at it as a balance sheet. This creates demand for real goods and services which has enabled the US to maintain income growth.

Government issues debt, uses proceeds to fund Welfare state, rinse, later repeat.

US Treasuries are nothing more than dollar deposits at the FED. They're a leftover from the days of the gold standard. If you and your conservative friends are so obsessed about this trivial accounting identity, you should should an amendment to eliminate the issuance of Treasuries. All deficits spending would accrue as excess reserves and the "national debt" would cease to exist. Problem solved, you and your buddies can focus on abortion, the gays, the Mexicans or whatever other moral outrage tickles your fancy.

You convinced me! Who needs an economy when all we need to do is sell TBonds! Yer a Geeeee-nus!!

There are no deficits, there are no debts, it's all just money that deposited at the Fed.

 

[Kimura]

. This creates demand for real goods and services which has enabled the US to maintain income growth.

dear libertarian progressive screwball, there is no free lunch, u6 is over 12%, income is down, not up despite record deficits. If deficits helped economist would know it and we'd always have a great economy since deficits are effortless to create. Please think before you post.

I never said there was a free lunch. The way out of our debacle is fiscal policy, it's really that simple. Reading comprehension isn't really your strong point.

 

[Kimura]

You sound like a Union leader

That makes zero sense but if it helps you sleep easier at night....

We don't even need a private sector!

Where did I say that? In point of fact, deficit spending creates financial assets for the private sector. Deficits add net add financial assets to the private sector, when you look at it as a balance sheet. This creates demand for real goods and services which has enabled the US to maintain income growth.

Government issues debt, uses proceeds to fund Welfare state, rinse, later repeat.

US Treasuries are nothing more than dollar deposits at the FED. They're a leftover from the days of the gold standard. If you and your conservative friends are so obsessed about this trivial accounting identity, you should should an amendment to eliminate the issuance of Treasuries. All deficits spending would accrue as excess reserves and the "national debt" would cease to exist. Problem solved, you and your buddies can focus on abortion, the gays, the Mexicans or whatever other moral outrage tickles your fancy.

You convinced me! Who needs an economy when all we need to do is sell TBonds! Yer a Geeeee-nus!!

There are no deficits, there are no debts, it's all just money that deposited at the Fed.

Money is ultimately a social unit of account, people equate this mystical function to it, some even think it's a commodity.

At the end of the day, the only constraints are inflation, capacity utilization and the exchange rate. I wouldn't worry about inflation anytime in the near future unless the economy was redlining at full capacity.