Krugman kicks von Mises acolyte while he's down

[Kimura]

Sometimes the Fed goes long periods without injecting liquidity.

Think of it this way: tax payments and bond sales lead to monetary destruction. In a similar fashion, for example, your loan repayments will destroy bank deposits.

Think of it this way, the government isn't allowed to print money to pay for spending.
Currently.

Which is fine....

However, these institutional arrangements and constraints don't change the balance sheets, the end result of our fiscal policy so to speak, only the order we're talking about. Either way, at the end of the day, the Treasury receives goods and services in exchange for currency from teh FED.

^^^^^

Think it this way.

Treasury spending always involves monetary creation as private bank accounts are credited, while taxation involves monetary destruction as bank accounts are debited

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Think of it this way: tax payments and bond sales lead to monetary destruction. In a similar fashion, for example, your loan repayments will destroy bank deposits.

Think of it this way, the government isn't allowed to print money to pay for spending.
Currently.

Which is fine....

However, these institutional arrangements and constraints don't change the balance sheets, the end result of our fiscal policy so to speak, only the order we're talking about. Either way, at the end of the day, the Treasury receives goods and services in exchange for currency from teh FED.

^^^^^

Think it this way.

Treasury spending always involves monetary creation as private bank accounts are credited, while taxation involves monetary destruction as bank accounts are debited

don't change the balance sheets, ..... only the order we're talking about.

I know, your order is not allowed.

I can't think of the last time the Treasury spent currency for goods and services.
You have an example? Goods exchanged for FRNs?

 

[Shanty]

It's really not difficult to point out the multiple problems with the Austrian School. The problem I have is most our self-appointed economic geniuses on the forum have never taken an economics class, unless you count rereading axioms by a dead Austrian sociologist.

And this guy:

Ask them for the data. Then watch the Austrian School cultists squirm because their own theories say they can't accept empirical evidence over an axiom.

That's right. Oh yeah, they also reject econometrics. We'd don't need any data or statistical analysis, that's for the evil statists.

Asking g them to count, use math, or otherwise use logic gets lots of hand waving and running in circles.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

It's not all printing money.
The only part that is printing money is spending more than you taxed and borrowed.

Kimura may be the only person in world who doesnt know that, but then he's a libertarian progressive

Like I said, FED injections precede taxes and bond offerings.

dear subject was printing money.It's not all printing money.
The only part that is printing money is spending more than you taxed and borrowed. Like I said

 

[Dot Com]

Ask them for the data. Then watch the Austrian School cultists squirm because their own theories say they can't accept empirical evidence over an axiom.

That's right. Oh yeah, they also reject econometrics. We'd don't need any data or statistical analysis, that's for the evil statists.

Asking g them to count, use math, or otherwise use logic gets lots of hand waving and running in circles.

yep, it would highlight their theory's glaring oversights.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

That's right. Oh yeah, they also reject econometrics. We'd don't need any data or statistical analysis, that's for the evil statists.

Asking g them to count, use math, or otherwise use logic gets lots of hand waving and running in circles.

yep, it would highlight their theory's glaring oversights.

can the illiterate liberal say what the most glaring oversite is?? I thought not.

 

[Kimura]

don't change the balance sheets, ..... only the order we're talking about.

I know, your order is not allowed.

I can't think of the last time the Treasury spent currency for goods and services.
You have an example? Goods exchanged for FRNs?

Sorry about the confusion, my point being that the US Treasury is the only part of the government that can inject FED currency vis-à-vis goods and services, such as spending currency.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Sorry about the confusion, my point being that the US Treasury is the only part of the government that can inject FED currency vis-à-vis goods and services, such as spending currency.

Is the Treasury the only part of government that can spend money?
Still no examples of the government spending FRNs?

 

[Kimura]

Is the Treasury the only part of government that can spend money?
Still no examples of the government spending FRNs?

The Treasury spends central bank currency which are FRNs.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Where does the Treasury spend FRNs?

 

[Kimura]

Where does the Treasury spend FRNs?

It's like the currency spigot for the government sector. It's the only part of the federal government involved in currency injection through spending central bank currency (FRNs). Again, we're talking the swapping out of financial asset for real assets, which we refer to as fiscal policy.

The Treasury also obtains FRNs from its ability to collect taxes (the debiting of demand accounts) and through bond auctions. It plays a role in financial transactions, but it's main priorities are to receive debits from demand accounts (tax payments) and to remove the FRNs from the non-government sector.

 

[Kimura]

dear subject was printing money.It's not all printing money.
The only part that is printing money is spending more than you taxed and borrowed. Like I said

For the umpteenth time, the monetary circuit doesn't operate like a recycling plant. There isn't some fixed quantity of $$$$ in a vault at the Federal Reserve.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's like the currency spigot for the government sector. It's the only part of the federal government involved in currency injection through spending central bank currency (FRNs). Again, we're talking the swapping out of financial asset for real assets, which we refer to as fiscal policy.

The Treasury also obtains FRNs from its ability to collect taxes (the debiting of demand accounts) and through bond auctions. It plays a role in financial transactions, but it's main priorities are to receive debits from demand accounts (tax payments) and to remove the FRNs from the non-government sector.

The Treasury also obtains FRNs from its ability to collect taxes (the debiting of demand accounts) and through bond auctions.

You are confused, again.
I have never once paid my taxes or bought a Treasury at auction with FRNs.
I have never once received a tax refund from the Treasury in FRNs.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Kimura was confusing me, then I ate these mushrooms and it all makes sense

 

[Kimura]

The Treasury also obtains FRNs from its ability to collect taxes (the debiting of demand accounts) and through bond auctions.

You are confused, again.
I have never once paid my taxes or bought a Treasury at auction with FRNs.
I have never once received a tax refund from the Treasury in FRNs.

Even though it's electronic, it's still central bank currency. Taxes are paid and Treasuries are purchased with FRNs, i.e. US dollars. When people get tax refunds, at some point, for most Americans, it's in the form of a demand deposit.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Kimura was confusing me, then I ate these mushrooms and it all makes sense

yes, a libertarian/progressive will be very very confusing; mostly to himself. I've asked him 10 times now who the other libertarian/ progressives are. So far he doesn't know any besides himself.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Even though it's electronic, it's still central bank currency. Taxes are paid and Treasuries are purchased with FRNs, i.e. US dollars. When people get tax refunds, at some point, for most Americans, it's in the form of a demand deposit.

Central bank money, sure. US dollars, yes. Demand deposits, yes. FRNs, no.

 

[oldfart]

Is the Treasury the only part of government that can spend money?
Still no examples of the government spending FRNs?

There is a part of the Treasury Department called the "Financial Management Service" (sort of parallel organizationally to the Internal Revenue Service) that actually makes about 98% of all disbursements, including tax refunds, Social Security payments, and payments for goods and services provided to the federal government. This is the mechanism for the government to pay bills. Most payments are electronic but the FMS also prints physical checks

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I read Kimura and basically the government can just issue bonds to cover all of our $120 Trillion of unfunded liabilities and it won't cost us a cent

Sweeeeet!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I read Kimura and basically the government can just issue bonds to cover all of our $120 Trillion of unfunded liabilities and it won't cost us a cent

Sweeeeet!

yes, he, being a libertarian progressive, also said no really good reason to collect taxes either once you understand the operational reality of the Treasury Dept!.