Kroger has to pay $180,000 to workers who were fired after they wouldn't wear LQBTQ+ pride symbols

[initforme]

Every time workers win over their employer it's always the right thing.

 

[Leo123]

Screw LBGTQ asshole radicals and screw Kroger..

 

[Foxfyre]

My understanding is Kroger instituted the policy and the employees refused.

The employees have every right to refuse something that goes against their beliefs. Same if say Hobby Lobby suddenly demanded employees wear a cross symbol. I'd back an employee that refused

Agreed. But a person doesn't have a right to refuse to follow the rules/policies established by their employers either. Just like in any other society, if each person can decide what laws, rules, regulations they will or will not follow, the law falls apart and chaos results.

Do I think Kroger short sighted in not allowing those two employees to wear their old aprons? Yes. But do I think employees get to set the policy? No. And they certainly should not be able to sue their employer just because they don't want to follow a policy.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Agreed. But a person doesn't have a right to refuse to follow the rules/policies established by their employers either. Just like in any other society, if each person can decide what laws, rules, regulations they will or will not follow, the law falls apart and chaos results.

Do I think Kroger short sighted in not allowing those two employees to wear their old aprons? Yes. But do I think employees get to set the policy? No. And they certainly should not be able to sue their employer just because they don't want to follow a policy.

Well you're wrong, when a policy is instituted after employment and an employee is uncomfortable it becomes an issue.

 

[initforme]

It gives me great hope to see employees go after their employers

 

[JOSweetHeart]

Agreed. But a person doesn't have a right to refuse to follow the rules/policies established by their employers either. Just like in any other society, if each person can decide what laws, rules, regulations they will or will not follow, the law falls apart and chaos results.

Do I think Kroger short sighted in not allowing those two employees to wear their old aprons? Yes. But do I think employees get to set the policy? No. And they certainly should not be able to sue their employer just because they don't want to follow a policy.

I second what you say about the laws falling apart if each person got to decide what the laws should be. At the end of the day, everyone on each side of any matter just needs to learn how to pick their battles.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

 

[Leo123]

When an employer suddenly institutes policies that impact employees' religious beliefs that were not enforced at hiring seems unfair. IMO, Kroger should not have made it mandatory.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well you're wrong, when a policy is instituted after employment and an employee is uncomfortable it becomes an issue.

A good boss would not make it an issue I agree.

But every business I have ever worked for has removed and added policies after I went to work for them. Some I liked and some I hated. Was very uncomfortable. But it never occurred to me that I had the right to dictate what the policy had to be. And the one that I could not morally condone, I quit.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

A good boss would not make it an issue I agree.

But every business I have ever worked for has removed and added policies after I went to work for them. Some I liked and some I hated. Was very uncomfortable. But it never occurred to me that I had the right to dictate what the policy had to be. And the one that I could not morally condone, I quit.

Kroger should have spelled out the condition the employees had to wear the symbol. The problem is Kroger instituted after employment, the employees balked and the courts agreed Kroger over stepped

 

[Leo123]

A good boss would not make it an issue I agree.

But every business I have ever worked for has removed and added policies after I went to work for them. Some I liked and some I hated. Was very uncomfortable. But it never occurred to me that I had the right to dictate what the policy had to be. And the one that I could not morally condone, I quit.

Safety policies, organizational policies, etc. are no problem. Employers have no business instituting political or religious policies that were not disclosed at point of employment, IMO.

 

[Foxfyre]

I second what you say about the laws falling apart if each person got to decide what the laws should be. At the end of the day, everyone on each side of any matter just needs to learn how to pick their battles.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

Thank you. Do I think the boss would be a jerk to require those two employees to wear those aprons? Yes. Do I think the employees were probably over the top in refusing to wear those aprons? Yes but I can appreciate having to follow ones own heart and sense of right and wrong too.

But the boss sets the policy just as our elected government passes the laws we are required to live under whether or not we think them just or morally correct. Each of us cannot dictate what the law must be. And the employees should not be able to tell the employer what the rules have to be. If the employee cannot negotiate a solution to the problem, he/she should quit. If the employee is subordinate, the employer should be able to fire him/her with impunity.

 

[Foxfyre]

Safety policies, organizational policies, etc. are no problem. Employers have no business instituting political or religious policies that were not disclosed at point of employment, IMO.

I agree a good boss doesn't impose political or religious policies on his/her employees other than specifying that employees will not bring those into the workplace. (We've had 12 years of success leaving political and religious controversy out of the USMB Coffee Shop.)

But because it is so ambiguous what constitutes a political or religious policy it would be impossible to establish a law that would cover every possible variable. And it should not be left up to the whims of what could be a biased or partisan judge either. In this case the employer, probably inadvisably, changed the required uniform for all employees. Right or wrong, it was his prerogative to do.

 

[Foxfyre]

Kroger should have spelled out the condition the employees had to wear the symbol. The problem is Kroger instituted after employment, the employees balked and the courts agreed Kroger over stepped

I know that is your and the court's decision and both probably make that decision thoughtfully.

But I still think I laid out a good case for why you and the court were wrong on this one.

 

[Vrenn]

If an employee is uncomfortable wearing a symbol then they shouldn't have to. Evidently the courts agree

The court agreed that the logo was too close to the LGBT logo. I don't think it is but the court does. As for refusal to wear any logo because you just wanna, How about the Smiley Face for WallMart. Suppose you hate the band Narvana who actually holds the copyright to it but rarely goes after anyone for using it (unless you name is Wallmart) Does that mean that I can refuse to wear a walmart shirt where it will be dominant on it?

 

[Vrenn]

Offering them something out of the way is still a form of punishment when the two workers were never guilty of any wrongdoing in the first place. If the business has no intention of practicing fair and equal treatment, what is the point of their ever preaching about it then?

God bless you always!!!

Holly

Welcome to Corporate America.

 

[Darkwind]

Every time workers win over their employer it's always the right thing.

Not every time.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

I know that is your and the court's decision and both probably make that decision thoughtfully.

But I still think I laid out a good case for why you and the court were wrong on this one.

Everyone has opinions. We're all right

 

[Foxfyre]

Every time workers win over their employer it's always the right thing.

You obviously never had to supervise a large group of employees, never had to take the risk to start and run your own business, get all the permits and licenses required, handle the mountain of paper work, pay the taxes, bills, insurance, advertising, etc. etc. etc., manage schedules and deal with the whims and preferences of your customers, a gazillion complaints as well as determine what inventory you need to carry, juggle expiration dates and all the myriad decisions and handling of problems that come at you far too frequently.

You can't imagine how much harder it would be if each employee is allowed to set his/her own rules and regulations for how, when, where he/she will do their jobs and what they will wear when they do it.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I actually agree. You should not force workers to wear political, religious or ideological messages or symbols. They should not have been fired.

Are you feeling OK?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

A good boss would not make it an issue I agree.

But every business I have ever worked for has removed and added policies after I went to work for them. Some I liked and some I hated. Was very uncomfortable. But it never occurred to me that I had the right to dictate what the policy had to be. And the one that I could not morally condone, I quit.

The point is that if you refused, you could have not been fired.