know what really causes homosexuality....

[RightWingSpirit]

I hope it was law enforcement so that I can show them the threat of violence you posted... I hear thats more of an issue than being made fun of... I kinda figured an INTELLECTUAL GIANT would have seen that coming a mile away...

was not a threat, more of a warning.
I already have your street address based on your IP.

 

[AllieBaba]

Oh, and I'm not one who subscribes to the holy grail(s) of psychological testing tools.

Although I will say, they have been developed and are geared towards exposing as much about crazy people as possible. So they aren't really used on a "normal" population.

And what is considered normal to an abnormal population doesn't apply. Again.

 

[Shogun]

No, I'm basing that on world-wide norms. There are pockets of humanity where what is considered aberrant by the rest of the world is considered the norm to ppl raised in that aberrant culture.
That doesn't mean the culture isn't aberrant, given the world-wide norm.

I'm not saying that because it's not of my culture it's "bad". I'm just saying that it's aberrant behavior for most of the cultures of the world, and most of the world population. It's a statement of fact, not opinion.

But you are still using the word Abberent filtered by your own ethnocentrism. Would not a culture that YOU think is abnormal say the same about your culture? For instance, IN america it would be abnormal to take a mid day ciesta... but in mexico it is abnormal that we dont. Thus, how is your judgement any more relevant than someone from an ancient culture, say feudal japan or greece, whose would judge your behaviours according to their ethnocentrism?

Again.. the DSM-4 is still the standard for the APA.

But, I'm glad you clarified that you were not making a judgement on whether the bahaviour is good or bad. I appriciate an open mind even on a subject we may disagree on.

 

[RightWingSpirit]

And what is considered normal to an abnormal population doesn't apply. Again.

the far left tries to force people to accept their way as being the norm.
I refuse to accept that homosexuality is the norm and will not allow my kids to be taught that being hetero equates to being "homophobic".

 

[Shogun]

was not a threat, more of a warning.
I already have your street address based on your IP.

gimme a break, dummy. My street address based on my IP? Then I guess this coffee shop needs to be on the lookout for known E-thugs, right?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

First day playing with the intertubes?

 

[RightWingSpirit]

This message is hidden because Shogun is on your ignore list.

It is disheartening to do that but when someone does not change their idiotic ways, there is not much choice.

 

[AllieBaba]

You really have no idea if the information is being filtered through my ethnocentricity or not. Nor does it matter, because the facts are the facts. And the fact is, it's aberrant behavior.

And I have about as much faith in the APA as I do in their little tools. Whatever the current stance the APA is on any topic, I just don't care because I don't think they're credible.

 

[Shogun]

I'm so, SOOOOOOOOO pained that RWS won't be reading my posts anymore..


i-i-i-i just might have to get some rope and HANG myself!


th-th-PAIN! ANGUISH!


Hey, when your Block Ops land their black helicopter in my back yard would you please ask them not to land in the pool? You see, I'm just not sure my home owners insurance will cover Vigilante Retribution and the kids really like to swim in the summer...

K, thnks!

 

[Shogun]

You really have no idea if the information is being filtered through my ethnocentricity or not. Nor does it matter, because the facts are the facts. And the fact is, it's aberrant behavior.

And I have about as much faith in the APA as I do in their little tools. Whatever the current stance the APA is on any topic, I just don't care because I don't think they're credible.

Oh it matters, sir. Indeed, it matters.

Hey, some people didn't have faith in that new fangled thing they called penicillin back in the day too. But, I guess nothing makes a good standard like an opinion and disregarding logical fallacies.

In ancient Greece your norms would have been deviant... Does that invalidate your belief system?


But, let me ask again: Are you suggesting that any behaviours that are not shared by the common majority be similarly criticised or is it just the homosexuality? I wonder what percentage of Americans play chess these days... hmmm..

 

[AllieBaba]

Pennicillin is a medicine, and came about because of science. There is actual scientific proof that pennicillin does, indeed, curb infection.

Something the APA can lay absolutely no claim to. Other than the science of searching for new and more confusing drugs. Look in a drug book. Most of the drugs they use, under the "how it works" section list "Unknown".

 

[AllieBaba]

And the population of ancient Greece represents a tiny, miniscule portion of world population.

They were considered aberrant by the rest of the world, too.

 

[Shogun]

At one time the use of pennicilin was considered witchcraft while the norm of the society was that the human body held four humours. You may disagree with the APA but it is still our highest authority on mental disorders and deviant behaviour.

Indeed, there is also social evidence that homoseuxality has been a constant, even if in a minority population, in cultures for a long, long time.


What other behaviours, practiced by a mere minority, should rally against?

 

[Shogun]

And the population of ancient Greece represents a tiny, miniscule portion of world population.

They were considered aberrant by the rest of the world, too.

uh, greece was a significant player in the history of the west, dude. Are we talking about land area now or the actual social population that eventually led to ours?

Were Japanese samurai also considered aberrant?

this is a trick question.

 

[AllieBaba]

You digress.

I'll stick to my point. Regardless of what you think of the Greeks, their overall population does not allow them to dictate the norm. It doesn't matter what they contributed to world culture. The fact is, even if every single ancient Greek was a homosexual, that still would not establish homosexual behavior as anything but aberrant, given the world-wide norm.

And I'm not stating that all behaviors not of the norm are suspect. I'm simply arguing against the stance that homosexuality is "normal" or "hardwired". It isn't.

That's the only point I'm making. The whole "But Greeks were homos and look what they've contributed to the world" thing has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

 

[Diuretic]

This reference to "the norm" is a bit confusing. Rather than look at it in statistical terms, which is essentially how it's being portrayed, it's probably more useful to think of a behaviour as being within accepted social limits. Now social definitions of acceptable behaviour arise from the cultures of societies so it's not that helpful to talk about worldwide "norms" or "norms" through history. We define what's normal by defining what's abnormal or deviant. Those terms are now loaded but I'm using them dispassionately. We decide what's deviant socially and usually it's those in positions of power who decide it for us. Religion is a powerful means of defining deviant behaviour and has been throughout history and across cultures. Look at the efforts by some groups in various societies to push Sharia as the legal code of their country. They want to remove secular law and replace it with religious law. That would radically re-define deviant and non-deviant behaviour and it wouldn't just be about sexual matters.

Shogun has pointed out that homosexuality isn't seen as a mental illness any longer by the medical community, those gatekeepers of medical knowledge. Now being as that's a clinical decision I would think that the APA have done a lot of work on that. I don't know this but I wouldn't be surprised if the APA decided more harm befell people when homosexuality was considered to be an illness than when it was taken out of the DSM.

AB mentioned chimps. Murderous little bastards they are. They hunt in packs and tear monkeys apart and eat them. That's normal behaviour for a chimp. Bonobos, no, they're not as aggressive as chimps. Chimps hunt in packs and kill monkeys - is that "wrong"? No, it's not "wrong", it's perfectly natural behaviour for chimps. It surprises us because most of us have only seen chimps making funny faces to their keepers in the zoo. We, who get out meat from shops which in turn get their meat from slaughterhouses where animals are slaughtered, turn our noses up and accuse chimps - as I did - of being "murderous". It's ridiculous to do so, it's "nature red in tooth and claw."


http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~stanford/chimphunt.html

Some societies accept homosexuality more easily than others. There are social reasons for that (not that I know what they are). Some even accept situational homosexuality.

http://www.colorq.org/Articles/article.aspx?d=QHistory&x=parallels

Obviously I don't know why homosexuals are oriented towards their own gender. However I do know about sexual orientation and impulse, being a human being makes me an expert in that. Growing up I knew that homosexuality was defined in my culture at that time as abnormal and in fact criminal when acted upon even between consenting adults. If homosexuality is chosen as some assert, why would you choose a sexuality that could see you imprisoned for indulging in it with another adult? Why would you choose to become part of a despised minority? It seems to me that sexuality is a lot like race, you don't get a choice.

 

[007]

Growing up I knew that homosexuality was defined in my culture at that time as abnormal and in fact criminal when acted upon even between consenting adults. If homosexuality is chosen as some assert, why would you choose a sexuality that could see you imprisoned for indulging in it with another adult? Why would you choose to become part of a despised minority? It seems to me that sexuality is a lot like race, you don't get a choice.

There's always a choice Diuretic. Queers know in their mind that sex between two people of the same sex is wrong, but they "choose" to act it out anyway. They COULD choose NOT to. They KNOW it's wrong. They just let the impulse over-ride their right from wrong decision making process.

 

[Chips Rafferty]

There's always a choice Diuretic. Queers know in their mind that sex between two people of the same sex is wrong, but they "choose" to act it out anyway. They COULD choose NOT to. They KNOW it's wrong. They just let the impulse over-ride their right from wrong decision making process.

To paraphrase Ali Bubba above,

There is no proof that religiosity is a natural (i.e., "okay") phenomena. There is no proof that people are genetically disposed to be religious, and "philosophical religiosity" is gobbledygook which has no basis in fact, science, nature or anything else.

Therefore your hate/fear-of-the-unknown - which is religiously inculcated - MUST be manifestly obvious, even to an inbred Bubba such as you, as being nothing but the passed on bigoted sub-conscious self-loathing of perverted priests, who adore dolling themselves up in mummy's dresses and diddling cherubic altar boy's bums.

Subsequently - going by your bigoted unscientific philosophy - I also feel entirely justifed, just as you do with poofters, in wanting to see you castrated with a rusty gap-toothed hacksaw blade and then slowly stoned to death by the normally indecent folk from my home town.

 

[midcan5]

This thread continues...I have to admit I sometimes laugh out loud at the replies and the shenanigans. Shogun and RWS were too funny. The one thing that seems consistent is the conservative response. It follows closely a Berkeley study noted below.


"Four researchers who culled through 50 years of research literature about the psychology of conservatism report that at the core of political conservatism is the resistance to change and a tolerance for inequality, and that some of the common psychological factors linked to political conservatism include:

* Fear and aggression
* Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity
* Uncertainty avoidance
* Need for cognitive closure
* Terror management

"From our perspective, these psychological factors are capable of contributing to the adoption of conservative ideological contents, either independently or in combination," the researchers wrote in an article, "Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition," recently published in the American Psychological Association's Psychological Bulletin."

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml

 

[Shogun]

Thank you, thank you.. I'm here all week!

 

[Diuretic]

How's the veal?

(Not that I eat it)