know what really causes homosexuality....

[AllieBaba]

There is no proof that homosexuality is a natural (i.e., "okay") phenomena. There is no proof that people are genetically disposed to be homosexual, and "philosophical homosexuality" is gobbledygook which has no basis in fact, science, nature or anything else.

I presume what you're doing is taking the fact that many people fantasize about homosexuality without actually choosing to act on the fantasy. I haven't yet heard that ordinary hetero behavior (to a point) referred to as "philosophical homosexuality". That term is simply one coined to conn other people in thinking everybody is, to some extent, homosexual..which makes it okay!

That's sort of like calling everybody who has ever fantasized about killing somebody (probably all of us) a "philosophical murderer", and using that to make the point that murder is a natural, and therefore, "okay" thing to do.

 

[Shogun]

There is no proof of plate tectonics either.

Care to consider the EVIDENCE?


How many historic societies do you want to read about?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There is no proof of plate tectonics either.

Care to consider the EVIDENCE?


How many historic societies do you want to read about?

There IS NO PROOF of hardwired homosexuality. There is some evidence it MAY be true, but nothing conclusive at all.

 

[midcan5]

There is no proof that homosexuality is a natural (i.e., "okay") phenomena. There is no proof that people are genetically disposed to be homosexual, and "philosophical homosexuality" is gobbledygook which has no basis in fact, science, nature or anything else.

How would you explain homosexuality in the higher primates? Is that not 'nature' or do you suppose they are only philosophical primates.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

How would you explain homosexuality in the higher primates? Is that not 'nature' or do you suppose they are only philosophical primates.

I do not need to explain it at all, but in higher primates intelligence and thought occur, there is some evidence that sex DRIVE causes some of them to have sex with weaker members of the same sex.

 

[Shogun]

There IS NO PROOF of hardwired homosexuality. There is some evidence it MAY be true, but nothing conclusive at all.

what proof is there that heterosexuality is WIRED then? Are you going to say, "because men and women have been ******* for years"? I'd have to retort that the same can be said about homosexual having sex. If we are both observing patterns of behaviour that are BOTH prevelent in many cultures accross history then what proof do you have the makes hetero any more "natural" than homo?


procreation is NOT a factor here. It's not a requirement or a prerequisite for love, sex or any type of relationship.

Tradition is not a factor either. Tradition is a man made construct that certainly isn't uniform throughout history and different cultures.


So, I'll ask: What is your proof that humans are hardwired for either orientation?


Hell, if anything it seems that sexual definitions are a product of SOCIAL realities rather than PHYSICAL. I've yet to ehar of a Hetero portion of the brain or a Strait Organ....

 

[midcan5]

Aging and Gay, and Facing Prejudice in Twilight

"Even now, at 81 and with her memory beginning to fade, Gloria Donadello recalls her painful brush with bigotry at an assisted-living center in Santa Fe, N.M. Sitting with those she considered friends, “people were laughing and making certain kinds of comments, and I told them, ‘Please don’t do that, because I’m gay.’”

The result of her outspokenness, Ms. Donadello said, was swift and merciless. “Everyone looked horrified,” she said. No longer included in conversation or welcome at meals, she plunged into depression. Medication did not help. With her emotional health deteriorating, Ms. Donadello moved into an adult community nearby that caters to gay men and lesbians."


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/09/us/09aged.html?em&ex=1192075200&en=6d2df560107f9f83&ei=5087

 

[AllieBaba]

No, heterosexuality is not hardwired either.
And I explain homosexuality in apes the same as in humans. It's aberrant behavior, just like murder. Humans and apes have a lot of the same vices, it doesn't "explain" anything except that we're equally depraved.

 

[Shogun]

So if you admit that hetero is not hardwired like homo is not hard wired then what, besides an opinion, are you basing the word "aberrant" on? Last I saw the DSM-4 doesn't list homosexuality as abnormal behaviour. Comparing the behaviour of homosexuality with the behaviour of murder is quite a stretch.

 

[RightWingSpirit]

10 Best reasons Gay Marriage is wrong:
1. Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.
2. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
3. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.
4. Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.
5. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.
6. Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.
7. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.
8. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.
9. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.
10. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

I disagree with those in bold.

Since when are women property? blacks still can't marry whites? divorce is illegal? Nonsense.
We do not have one religion in this country.
We do not forbid single parent households.
Are we talking about America because from what I have seen, those statements are just propaganda from the far left.

 

[Shogun]

SOMEONE is not so quick on catching the sarcasm today...


Damn.. and here I thought I was in the presence of an INTELLECTUAL GIANT...





Can anyone post the dumbed down version so he can see why his INTELLECTUAL GIANT card is being revoked?

 

[RightWingSpirit]

Shogun, leave here or I'll bury you , either verbally or physically.

I am tired of your shit and so is everyone else.

 

[doniston]

How anyone can think that a man sticking his tool up another mans ass is "normal" is beyond me, and that puts me in the huge majority of the world that knows what "normal" is. We don't need some horse crap psycho-babble spewed at us in an attempt to legitimize deviant, perverse, unnatural behavior. You either know it's wrong, or you don't. You either tell homo's that what they're doing is sick, or you try and make excuses for them. One crowd is a very vocal little minority. The other is the vast majority. Thank God the vast majority are the ones that know right from wrong, perverse from moral, and unnatural from natural.

And yet you seem to think anal sex with a woman is perfectly OK. In your mind does that become "NORMAL"?

 

[AllieBaba]

So if you admit that hetero is not hardwired like homo is not hard wired then what, besides an opinion, are you basing the word "aberrant" on? Last I saw the DSM-4 doesn't list homosexuality as abnormal behaviour. Comparing the behaviour of homosexuality with the behaviour of murder is quite a stretch.

Er...aberrant means outside of the norm, genius. The norm is what is norm for the majority of a population. The majority of chimps aren't homosexual, nor are the majority murderers.

Murder and homosexuality are aberrant behaviors, because they're outside the norm in both human and chimp populations.

 

[Shogun]

Shogun, leave here or I'll bury you , either verbally or physically.

I am tired of your shit and so is everyone else.

nice!

a THREAT....

Im sure that will go over well.


By all means.. bring on the heartache, bubba... I'm sure your prowess in street fighter 2 helps pwning all the threads, ya E-thug..

Im glad you speak for everyone else, too.. Say, did you come to that consensus while totally missing the subtle sarcasm of the above top ten list? That's not very INTELLECTUAL GIANT'ISH of you...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


So, are you going to block me or was that just some hot steam escaping your *****?

 

[RightWingSpirit]

shogun, You have been reported.

Not to the mod, someone else.

 

[doniston]

Shogun, leave here or I'll bury you , either verbally or physically.

I am tired of your shit and so is everyone else.

Speak for yourself *****.

 

[Shogun]

Er...aberrant means outside of the norm, genius. The norm is what is norm for the majority of a population. The majority of chimps aren't homosexual, nor are the majority murderers.

Murder and homosexuality are aberrant behaviors, because they're outside the norm in both human and chimp populations.

But you are judging that based on your own cultural norms. I can give you examples of other cultures in history where the current norms are not anything close to ours. Again, the DSM-4 doesn't list homosexuality as abnormal behaviour anymore. Are you trying to suggest that any behaviour that falls outside of a generic range of commonality should be seen as less valid as those shared by a majority of the population?

 

[Shogun]

shogun, You have been reported.

Not to the mod, someone else.

ohhhh.. is your big brother going to show up at my doorstep tonight?


RUHROH, SHAGGY! Ima SCERRED now!


I hope it was law enforcement so that I can show them the threat of violence you posted... I hear thats more of an issue than being made fun of... I kinda figured an INTELLECTUAL GIANT would have seen that coming a mile away...

 

[AllieBaba]

But you are judging that based on your own cultural norms. I can give you examples of other cultures in history where the current norms are not anything close to ours. Again, the DSM-4 doesn't list homosexuality as abnormal behaviour anymore. Are you trying to suggest that any behaviour that falls outside of a generic range of commonality should be seen as less valid as those shared by a majority of the population?

No, I'm basing that on world-wide norms. There are pockets of humanity where what is considered aberrant by the rest of the world is considered the norm to ppl raised in that aberrant culture.
That doesn't mean the culture isn't aberrant, given the world-wide norm.

I'm not saying that because it's not of my culture it's "bad". I'm just saying that it's aberrant behavior for most of the cultures of the world, and most of the world population. It's a statement of fact, not opinion.