Kneel!

[Meriweather]

No, what shocks me is my poor Aunt had to live a lie for 70 years, and ended up being very unhappy. Because Religion. Instead, she got into a sham marriage, had a kid she had no idea how to raise, and frankly, caused four generations of misery in that side of the family.

And you blame this solely on her religion. You picture her life as an atheist homosexual as delightfully fulfilled. Ask yourself: Did you see her personality slowly change over the years, or based on what you always saw in her, did you came up with a professional diagnosis?

 

[Meriweather]

No, they haven't... Hey, did they find Jesus' Tomb... the real one? How about Goliath's bones... you think if the guy was really a giant, they'd have kept that.

Sure. Keeping an unclean enemy body would have made perfect sense in that day and age.

 

[Meriweather]

Uh, sorry. the Bible wasn't being "figurative". They really said there were Zombies and Talking Snakes and Giants.

For instance, Goliath is described quite completely, with his height and the weights of his weapons and armor.

1. Two different stories. Unless you believe in zombies and talking snakes today, it was as figurative then as it is today.

2. Yeah, the only thing they changed about Goliath, is that the young man who killed him was not David. Oh, I'll bet you don't think giving credit to a famous person to make the story even more interesting would have happened either. I'll bet you also believe anywhere it is written "According to Famous Person" wasn't actually according to a less famous or unheard of person.

Anyone ever tell you that you seem kind of naive? Talking snakes, zombies, people miserable simply because of a religion, keeping bones of a dead person during a time that would have been considered horrific...

 

[Hollie]

Once you break from literal interpretation of the Bible or any other holy text, you inevitably cause the religion to splinter into different camps of believers. Interpretation is subjective and since the gods have decided not to intervene, believers are left to make it up as they go. That's why religions edge into that really bizarre world where some things you believe as literal, others not, which is really your garden variety of pick-and-choose what you want to believe. If you can say, "Well, Genesis is true but Pauline rules on women is not" (or whatever), well, then I can -- with equal "authority" -- by your own standards, say "Well, the siege of Jericho is true, but the resurrection is not". Such game playing with one's beliefs is certainly your right to do, but it only strips your argument of credibility, it doesn't support your case at all.

Are you aware that Catholics have many differences of opinions regarding the Bible? That many of our greatest Saints heartily disagreed with each other on Biblical and doctrinal points? Yet, we are all equally Catholic because of the bottom line: We believe in God and His love. We believe the best way to live is to love God and love our fellow man. It does not matter a whit if some of us give credit to evolution and some of us do not. It matters not if some of us believe snakes once talked, and others of us believe idioms were used in Biblical times as well.

Paul was talking to the people of his time about a specific occurrence(s) of that time and place. Paul also speaks of women disciples, women deacons, women leaders. He also speaks of differences some communities followed in different communities.

What you are still not grasping or taking into account is when the various accounts were written; when they may have been edited; the languages, cultures, and histories of those times and how all of these differ from our own language, culture, and history. Our perspective today is not the same perspective people had thousands of years ago. For example, do you and your grandparents have the same perspectives about everything? When they differ, isn't it often because they were brought up and lived in a different time?

Hollie, I have said this many times on this forum: First seek God. Once one truly experiences God one of two things will occur: First, the Bible will not matter as much. Or, one is going to become greatly curious of why the Bible does not seem to align with the experience and begin intense Bible study. For me, it was this second, and I came to realize it was not the Bible that did not align, it was my own perspective of the Bible. Once I began to see it through the lens of ancient humans and their history, culture, languages, and literature things fell back into alignment.

It does not matter greatly how literally some people of faith take the Bible, because it is their faith which is more vital. For people of no faith, taking the Bible literally from the perspective of modern history, languages, and culture is a death knell. Start with seeking God; start with faith. Unless, of course, your goal is to discredit the Bible. That is very easy to do. Move the Biblical goal posts far from the original intent and purpose, look at it through the eyes of no faith, modern culture, and literally, and it disintegrates for you. Of course, what disintegrates is your own creation, not the creation of the original authors and participants.

I’ve made the point repeatedly that people’s differing perceptions of holy texts is one reason why religions tend to splinter into various sub-sects. This circles back to what parts of the respective holy texts people interpret, or choose to interpret as literal or allegorical.


People (perhaps you, perhaps not), are determined to interpret what god is at every level. Personally, I see inconsistency in the god model, but I'm playing devil's advocate here (how ironic). But people further the inconsistency themselves when they do somersaults to push god into a mode that gives them a comfort zone with such admonitions as a loving and merciful god who has a plan for us.

What, the gods condemn little 2 year old Johnny to a short life of suffering from an incurable disease? Yet these same theists don't blink an eye when they insist that the godof love and mercy created a flood that drowned the world, and obviously drowned many innocent Johnnies and Bonnies who were drowned wholesale.

How does anyone see gods without the holy texts that introducepeople to gods in the first place? The book that introduces you the Christian gods is the Bible. The Bible is allegedly a chronological history of mankind from creation to fall to an eventual reckoning when the gods return.

 

[Meriweather]

I’ve made the point repeatedly that people’s differing perceptions of holy texts is one reason why religions tend to splinter into various sub-sects. This circles back to what parts of the respective holy texts people interpret, or choose to interpret as literal or allegorical.

It is a minor point. The major splits in Christianity were over political ties. I agree Baptists and Evangelicals have a habit of splintering even further over minor differences, yet most retain the name of Baptist or Evangelical. A few Pentecostals might also fall into this category. Yet we also still see splits occurring, not over Biblical differences, but over political differences. All the same, in churches, denominations of size, we see many opinions, interpretations, interpolations, translations (whatever we wish to call them) still worship together.

I am one who wishes churches would work harder to unite, and the two who should lead the way are the Catholic Churches. If each Church would unite with the Church closest to their own beliefs, splintering might stop, and unification might become more universal. A different topic, but well worth discussing sometime.

 

[Meriweather]

People (perhaps you, perhaps not), are determined to interpret what god is at every level. Personally, I see inconsistency in the god model, but I'm playing devil's advocate here (how ironic). But people further the inconsistency themselves when they do somersaults to push god into a mode that gives them a comfort zone with such admonitions as a loving and merciful god who has a plan for us.

What, the gods condemn little 2 year old Johnny to a short life of suffering from an incurable disease? Yet these same theists don't blink an eye when they insist that the godof love and mercy created a flood that drowned the world, and obviously drowned many innocent Johnnies and Bonnies who were drowned wholesale.

Why is it so many non-believers choose to moan over children dying? It is never, God kills ninety-year-olds or even fifty year olds. If God kills, then He has killed every single person who has ever lived, no matter what their age. So why do we moan over cancer in children without hearing that same level of moaning for cancer, Alzheimer's, etc. in the elderly? So what if the elderly are in pain? So what if the elderly died in a flood?

We live in a world where illness, ailments, and natural disasters kill people of all ages, and have done so since the beginning of human life on earth. What is the difference between people who blame God and people who simply accept reality? Mostly, it appears, people who seek to blame have no belief in the very being they blame. Interesting paradox, is it not? Tears over toddlers, but none at all for the elderly.

 

[Meriweather]

How does anyone see gods without the holy texts that introducepeople to gods in the first place? The book that introduces you the Christian gods is the Bible. The Bible is allegedly a chronological history of mankind from creation to fall to an eventual reckoning when the gods return.

Instead of trying to find God in a book, try inviting God into your life. Instead of wanting God to do something for you, try building a desire to do something for God.

 

[Hollie]

How does anyone see gods without the holy texts that introducepeople to gods in the first place? The book that introduces you the Christian gods is the Bible. The Bible is allegedly a chronological history of mankind from creation to fall to an eventual reckoning when the gods return.

Instead of trying to find God in a book, try inviting God into your life. Instead of wanting God to do something for you, try building a desire to do something for God.

I'm not trying to find Gods. Simply not looking.

I can't say that I have any need for any of the Gods in my life.

 

[Meriweather]

I can't say that I have any need for any of the gods in my life.

Some say that about friends and family as well. It has nothing to do with need. It has to do with a desire to have friends, family, God. We can all get on with only self, but friends, family, God are often more rewarding and also come with blessings. I wanted to meet up with God, and I did not approach God with need even in mind. Just wanted to meet and know Him, so I sought Him out. I have no regrets, but I do have a great understanding of the verse, "Blessed are they who do not see, yet believe."

 

[Rambunctious]

Trump declared a national health emergency in 11 days.....

Okay, the thing is, you can't just declare a health emergency and call it a day... it's everything else Trump didn't do that the Europeans did do that's the problem.

Trump didn't order a nation-wide shutdown like all the other countries did because he didn't want to spook the stock markets. That's why we lead the world in Cases and Deaths.

We are the United states...states...self governed states...that makes our situation different than any other nation on earth....and you can check for yourself to see if you can find anywhere in Trumps covid recommendations where protesting and rioting are recommended.....I looked and couldn't find that....

The dems took their biggest election weapon away by allowing the protests at a time of a global pandemic....no one will blame Trump with that being the case.....the protests are the reason for the second wave.....and even with all that Trump has kept the death count to 150,000 when over 2 million was predicted....not a bad job....

 

[Hollie]

People (perhaps you, perhaps not), are determined to interpret what god is at every level. Personally, I see inconsistency in the god model, but I'm playing devil's advocate here (how ironic). But people further the inconsistency themselves when they do somersaults to push god into a mode that gives them a comfort zone with such admonitions as a loving and merciful god who has a plan for us.

What, the gods condemn little 2 year old Johnny to a short life of suffering from an incurable disease? Yet these same theists don't blink an eye when they insist that the godof love and mercy created a flood that drowned the world, and obviously drowned many innocent Johnnies and Bonnies who were drowned wholesale.

Why is it so many non-believers choose to moan over children dying? It is never, God kills ninety-year-olds or even fifty year olds. If God kills, then He has killed every single person who has ever lived, no matter what their age. So why do we moan over cancer in children without hearing that same level of moaning for cancer, Alzheimer's, etc. in the elderly? So what if the elderly are in pain? So what if the elderly died in a flood?

We live in a world where illness, ailments, and natural disasters kill people of all ages, and have done so since the beginning of human life on earth. What is the difference between people who blame God and people who simply accept reality? Mostly, it appears, people who seek to blame have no belief in the very being they blame. Interesting paradox, is it not? Tears over toddlers, but none at all for the elderly.

On the other hand, why would the Gods save some and not others? I was reading the story of the Lafayette plane crash survivor. One person survived. The survivor claims it was a miracle he survived and thanked God for that.

Pretty cool for him. He won God's lottery. Screw those other losers who died, I guess.

Interesting concept: accept reality. Yes because events that are beyond our control can and do happen. There's nothing to indicate that any of the Gods will save a believer from a non-believer if a plane crashes or a tornado (an act of God for purposes of homeowners insurance) rips through neighborhood in Oklahoma.

 

[Hollie]

I can't say that I have any need for any of the gods in my life.

Some say that about friends and family as well. It has nothing to do with need. It has to do with a desire to have friends, family, God. We can all get on with only self, but friends, family, God are often more rewarding and also come with blessings. I wanted to meet up with God, and I did not approach God with need even in mind. Just wanted to meet and know Him, so I sought Him out. I have no regrets, but I do have a great understanding of the verse, "Blessed are they who do not see, yet believe."

The difference, of course, is that friends and family are in the here and now. My actions directly affects those relationships. I don't love my friends and family and treat them with love and respect hoping that will earn me rewards. That was the point of faith (rewards in an afterlife) and the promise of religion in the first place! And my overwhelming experience is that believers find it very easy to believe because the dynamic of the belief system has cultural / geographic biases and it addresses concerns about mortality. It just doesn't back them up with any authority.


This works for me:
“We can judge our progress by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers, our willingness to embrace what is true rather than what feels good.”
― Carl Sagan

 

[Meriweather]

On the other hand, why would the Gods save some and not others? I was reading the story of the Lafayette plane crash survivor. One person survived. The survivor claims it was a miracle he survived and thanked God for that.

Pretty cool for him. He won God's lottery. Screw those other losers who died, I guess.

How very odd to think this way.

 

[Meriweather]

Interesting concept: accept reality. Yes because events that are beyond our control can and do happen. There's nothing to indicate that any of the Gods will save a believer from a non-believer if a plane crashes or a tornado (an act of God for purposes of homeowners insurance) rips through neighborhood in Oklahoma.

Some agree with the concept that God is with us through all that happens, whether it is life in this world, or in the next. Win-win.

 

[Meriweather]

The difference, of course, is that friends and family are in the here and now. My actions directly affects those relationships. I don't love my friends and family and treat them with love and respect hoping that will earn me rewards. That was the point of faith (rewards in an afterlife) and the promise of religion in the first place! And my overwhelming experience is that believers find it very easy to believe because the dynamic of the belief system has cultural / geographic biases and it addresses concerns about mortality. It just doesn't back them up with any authority.

So, you treat friends and family with care in hopes they will mistreat you? Ignore you? I do not know which denomination you (or your family) followed. You do seem blissfully unaware that many denominations/people of faith follow God's laws because it smooths the way in this life. As far as I know, all Christian sects teach the afterlife is a gift and not a thing can be done to earn it for oneself.

Therefore, the teaching that life continues on after death is simply a heads up to be prepared for it to continue. Those who believe in reincarnation caution people to have a care about what they do in the present.

 

[Hollie]

On the other hand, why would the Gods save some and not others? I was reading the story of the Lafayette plane crash survivor. One person survived. The survivor claims it was a miracle he survived and thanked God for that.

Pretty cool for him. He won God's lottery. Screw those other losers who died, I guess.

How very odd to think this way.

How very odd that the plane crash survivor believed the Gods saved him while killing off the others.

It’s possible the Gods screwed up and he got away.

 

[Hollie]

The difference, of course, is that friends and family are in the here and now. My actions directly affects those relationships. I don't love my friends and family and treat them with love and respect hoping that will earn me rewards. That was the point of faith (rewards in an afterlife) and the promise of religion in the first place! And my overwhelming experience is that believers find it very easy to believe because the dynamic of the belief system has cultural / geographic biases and it addresses concerns about mortality. It just doesn't back them up with any authority.

So, you treat friends and family with care in hopes they will mistreat you? Ignore you? I do not know which denomination you (or your family) followed. You do seem blissfully unaware that many denominations/people of faith follow God's laws because it smooths the way in this life. As far as I know, all Christian sects teach the afterlife is a gift and not a thing can be done to earn it for oneself.

Therefore, the teaching that life continues on after death is simply a heads up to be prepared for it to continue. Those who believe in reincarnation caution people to have a care about what they do in the present.

Yes, Gods are comforting. They are a place to focus blame for events in your life which go wrong and which you can’t control and to praise for your good fortunes.

You seem blissfully unaware of Christian theology. Commiserations with angels in heaven is not a gift. The inventors of Christianity made it a contractual agreement. You gotta’ believe.


Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.

In other words, your acts don't matter. You're the greatest person in the world? Too bad -- you burn, heathen. Forever.

 

[Meriweather]

How very odd that the plane crash survivor believed the Gods saved him while killing off the others.

The survivor testified that God killed off the others?

 

[Meriweather]

Yes, Gods are comforting. They are a place to focus blame for events in your life which go wrong and which you can’t control and to praise for your good fortunes.

You seem blissfully unaware of Christian theology. Commiserations with angels in heaven is not a gift. The inventors of Christianity made it a contractual agreement. You gotta’ believe.


Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.

In other words, your acts don't matter. You're the greatest person in the world? Too bad -- you burn, heathen. Forever.

In which denomination did you grow up?

 

[Hollie]

How very odd that the plane crash survivor believed the Gods saved him while killing off the others.

The survivor testified that God killed off the others?

No. He thanked the Gods because he survived.