Keystone Pipeline: Yes Or No

[healthmyths]

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper to say that Canada will push to sell its oil to Asian markets instead of the U.S.

Prepare to be blackmailed by Canada now energy hungry Americans!

No Keystone Pipeline For Now, But More Tanker Traffic In The Northwest · OPB News

I'd say yes to the Ok to Tx extention and no to the Nebraska extention.

So you are concerned that in 4 hours from the time a leak is identified to the time it is closed that 2,280 gallons of OIL seeping into 208 million gallons of water (amount in 1 square mile of the Ogallala Aquifer)?
OK.. let me give you it takes 8 hours! 4,560 gallons of OIL mixed with 208 million gallons of WATER!

That's your concern???

 

[JDzBrain]

...i like nature and clean water. The money & oil is of no importance to me. I just want a clean healthy environment to enjoy. Because in this crazy bizarre world,sometimes chillin in nature is all we have. I don't want to lose all that just for Money.

Huh...of no importance to ya. Well then, I guess you really don't want that keyboard you are so frantically pounding away on. ;~)

See, not only was the energy used to produce it dependent on hydrocarbons...oil, natural gas and/or coal, but the major components of that keyboard it's self are about 60% petroleum byproducts!

I don't know where you live paul...and if you are like me, you can just walk out the back door and into several hundred unbroken acres of hardwood timber and rivers, but if you don't...you can NOT get to where you can without HUGE amounts of petroleum reserves being spent, just to get you the transportation you'll use to get there. And if you ARE lucky like me...you will require the same vast reserves to get to your work...to earn money to be able to enjoy the outdoors...or to buy the necessities to live like a modern human.

Now this is not personal because there are LOT of people who like you and claim they do not care, but it's just because they don't have a CLUE just exactly what all it is in their comfy lives that is a DIRECT result of petroleum and hydrocarbon products!

And a couple weeks sleeping in a tent, on a goose down sleeping bag and cooking with sterno will NOT teach them what they can do without!

If you dropped 99% of the people reading these post in the middle of Yellowstone with a knife and a loaded gun, they would never make it out alive...little on live well!

And here's a little fact for ya. We are MORE likely to be gored to death by a deer or killed by some other wildlife in that coveted pristine outdoor space than we are to die from eating oil contaminated sea food from the gulf. We are actually 10 times more likely to die from contamination due to poor hygiene during preparation than outside contamination. That is a statistical FACT!

So, we have a choice. Live our lives in the comfort of modern conveniences, strive to do our part and confront problems as they come up...OR, live our lives in fear of "what ifs" and throw the bases of all those modern niceties out, start over and accept that it will cause abject poverty and lower the standard of living for every single man, woman and child in this country, just so the few of us that want to can have a few hours a year in a pristine wilderness that may or may NOT have been damaged had we not been so self righteous as to think we are in charge of nature!

Me, I'm an optimist and I'm certainly not going to live my life in fear of what MIGHT happen!

 

[JDzBrain]

Boy,this thing isn't even close. Looks like we will have this pipeline. If our USMB Polls mean anything.

LOL...yep, and ya know what's funny Paul. I bet the other No vote besides yours was a Canadian that knows that their government will take their tax dollars and subsidize the price of the the oil they sale to us. ;~0

Hey, it works for selling us our drugs back cheap. I say go for it Canada! LOL

 

[uscitizen]

Are all the property owners in the path of the pipeline eager or willing to sell right of way thru their ancestral homesteads?

This is a commercial venture for profit not a public highway. Should they be able to condemn property?

Has anyone else even thought of the loss of liberty involved here?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Yea well,now we're all eating chemically contaminated seafood from the Gulf too. That was never gonna happen either. My God,how much poison is our population injesting due to that disaster? We don't even know where the seafood we eat in restaurants comes from. I mean are people really so crazy to think seafood they're eating from the Gulf isn't contaminated in some way? Everyone should ask where their seafood comes from when eating in a restaurant.

The same goes for the seafood coming from the Pacific Ocean. All that Japanese Nuclear material plunging into the sea has no impact on sealife? Come on,can people really be so delusional. So there are terrible impacts on our environmmet going on all the time. Personally,i like nature and clean water. The money & oil is of no importance to me. I just want a clean healthy environment to enjoy. Because in this crazy bizarre world,sometimes chillin in nature is all we have. I don't want to lose all that just for Money.

Did you know that oil seepage on the oceans floor is a naturally occuring event?

A satellite survey published in January of 2000 counted at least 600 natural oil seeps within the Gulf. And they release a lot of oil.

A 2003 National Academies study estimated that about 980,000 barrels of oil, or about 41 million gallons, seep into the Gulf - every year. Recall that the Exxon Valdez is estimated to have spilled about 250,000 barrels.

This link will take you to a table of annual petroleum releases into U.S. waters by source, but it is confusing to read. If you are willing to wade through the paper, though, the pages that follow do explain each of the individual sources.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Yea well,now we're all eating chemically contaminated seafood from the Gulf too. That was never gonna happen either. My God,how much poison is our population injesting due to that disaster? We don't even know where the seafood we eat in restaurants comes from. I mean are people really so crazy to think seafood they're eating from the Gulf isn't contaminated in some way? Everyone should ask where their seafood comes from when eating in a restaurant.

The same goes for the seafood coming from the Pacific Ocean. All that Japanese Nuclear material plunging into the sea has no impact on sealife? Come on,can people really be so delusional. So there are terrible impacts on our environmmet going on all the time. Personally,i like nature and clean water. The money & oil is of no importance to me. I just want a clean healthy environment to enjoy. Because in this crazy bizarre world,sometimes chillin in nature is all we have. I don't want to lose all that just for Money.

I'm glad I dont eat Ocean insects or fish

Yea i'm so amazed very few Americans even care where their seafood comes from. When you're at a restaurant you can ask politely where they get their seafood from. They will tell you most of the time. I mean some people really do believe there's no negative impact on their environment after such terrible disasters. I guess it's a denial thing or they really just don't care. I enjoy a clean peaceful environment to chill in. I need it actually. I don't care about the money anymore. I got past all that. We'll get plenty of oil or we'll have to figure out a new alternative. I'm not sure we need this. The damage from a disaster would likely be irreversible.

Tell me how many people die or become ill anually from seafood that's been contaminated by oil production?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Boy,this thing isn't even close. Looks like we will have this pipeline. If our USMB Polls mean anything.

That's because most people realize that letting fear of what might happen stop us from gaining 20+ thousand jobs and aquiring much needed and cheaper oil is ridiculous.

 

[paulitician]

...i like nature and clean water. The money & oil is of no importance to me. I just want a clean healthy environment to enjoy. Because in this crazy bizarre world,sometimes chillin in nature is all we have. I don't want to lose all that just for Money.

Huh...of no importance to ya. Well then, I guess you really don't want that keyboard you are so frantically pounding away on. ;~)

See, not only was the energy used to produce it dependent on hydrocarbons...oil, natural gas and/or coal, but the major components of that keyboard it's self are about 60% petroleum byproducts!

I don't know where you live paul...and if you are like me, you can just walk out the back door and into several hundred unbroken acres of hardwood timber and rivers, but if you don't...you can NOT get to where you can without HUGE amounts of petroleum reserves being spent, just to get you the transportation you'll use to get there. And if you ARE lucky like me...you will require the same vast reserves to get to your work...to earn money to be able to enjoy the outdoors...or to buy the necessities to live like a modern human.

Now this is not personal because there are LOT of people who like you and claim they do not care, but it's just because they don't have a CLUE just exactly what all it is in their comfy lives that is a DIRECT result of petroleum and hydrocarbon products!

And a couple weeks sleeping in a tent, on a goose down sleeping bag and cooking with sterno will NOT teach them what they can do without!

If you dropped 99% of the people reading these post in the middle of Yellowstone with a knife and a loaded gun, they would never make it out alive...little on live well!

And here's a little fact for ya. We are MORE likely to be gored to death by a deer or killed by some other wildlife in that coveted pristine outdoor space than we are to die from eating oil contaminated sea food from the gulf. We are actually 10 times more likely to die from contamination due to poor hygiene during preparation than outside contamination. That is a statistical FACT!

So, we have a choice. Live our lives in the comfort of modern conveniences, strive to do our part and confront problems as they come up...OR, live our lives in fear of "what ifs" and throw the bases of all those modern niceties out, start over and accept that it will cause abject poverty and lower the standard of living for every single man, woman and child in this country, just so the few of us that want to can have a few hours a year in a pristine wilderness that may or may NOT have been damaged had we not been so self righteous as to think we are in charge of nature!

Me, I'm an optimist and I'm certainly not going to live my life in fear of what MIGHT happen!

Hey that's your opinion and i do respect it,but i disagree. I'm an optimist too but what "MIGHT" happen has already happened too many times. A disaster will happen with this pipeline at some point. And i'm no rugged survivalist but i really do enjoy our clean water,fresh air,and toxic-free nature environment. We need to ptotect it because there's not much of it left. We've contaminated just about everything at this point. We're literally killing ourselves now. And for what? Money? Well lets try something different and say no to greed. Yea sure,we may have to pay a few more bucks for oil but we'll still have our clean environment and our dignity. I can live with that.

 

[tinydancer]

Lots of debate on this one. Pretty important issue.

The Keystone Pipeline System is a pipeline system to transport synthetic crude oil and diluted bitumen from the Athabasca Oil Sands in northeastern Alberta, Canada to multiple destinations in the United States, which include refineries in Illinois, Cushing oil distribution hub in Oklahoma, and proposed connections to refineries along the Gulf Coast of Texas. It consists of the operational "Keystone Pipeline" (Phase 1) and "Keystone-Cushing Extension" (Phase 2), and two proposed Keystone XL pipeline expansion segments. After the Keystone XL pipeline segments are completed, American crude oil will enter the XL pipelines at Baker, Montana and Cushing, Oklahoma.[1]

The Keystone XL has faced lawsuits from oil refineries and criticism from environmentalists and some members of the United States Congress. The U.S. Department of State in 2010 extended the deadline for federal agencies to decide if the pipeline is in the national interest.


Keystone Pipeline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For me, the real significance of the Keystone punt by the President is that it reveals how has the real power in the slanders about so-called "Big Oil."

No, the truth is that "Big Green" runs the show.
That would be "Big Green," the 'Watermelon Movement'- green on the outside, red on the inside.

So bang on the money with this post. He did screw over unions for the greenies on this one.

Great article at IBD and the part I've highlighted says it all.

Obama Delays Keystone XL Pipeline Past 2012, Backing Greens Over Industry, Unions
By Sean Higgins
Thu., Nov. 10, 2011 6:12 PM ET
Tags: Energy - Environment - White House - Unions - Jobs

After months of dithering on approving TransCanada’s Keystone XL Pipeline, the Obama administration has settled on ... dithering for several months more. On Thursday the White House said it would study a new route for the pipeline, a decision that will — hey, what a coincidence! — likely delay any decision until after the 2012 election.

Because the project involves the U.S. and Canada, it requires State Department approval. The administration once appeared to be leaning toward OK’ing the project but was heavily lobbied by green groups to crush it in recent months. Today’s decision may have done just that by delaying the project for so long that shippers and refiners look for alternate ways to get Canadian sands oil.

That’s bad news not just for the industry but for the American economy. The $7 billion project was projected to bring in 20,000 jobs, according to industry and labor groups. It was also expected to reduce oil costs in the U.S. But the administration, looking forward to a tough presidential campaign next year, opted not to alienate the greens.

“It’s a huge victory, and it would probably be the biggest environmental gift that President Barack Obama has given us,” said Tony Iallonardo, a spokesman at the National Wildlife Federation, told Reuters.

It’s not clear how much this move will benefit the White House, though. Industrial unions were big supporters of the project and they’re not likely to be thrilled at the forgone jobs, many of them high-paying.

“This isn’t a pipeline; it’s a lifeline,” said Laborers International Union of North America President Terry O’Sullivan last month.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Are all the property owners in the path of the pipeline eager or willing to sell right of way thru their ancestral homesteads?

This is a commercial venture for profit not a public highway. Should they be able to condemn property?

Has anyone else even thought of the loss of liberty involved here?

What liberties are you losing?

What liberties do the property owners that either sell or lease their land to oil companies lose?

 

[Skull Pilot]

...i like nature and clean water. The money & oil is of no importance to me. I just want a clean healthy environment to enjoy. Because in this crazy bizarre world,sometimes chillin in nature is all we have. I don't want to lose all that just for Money.

Huh...of no importance to ya. Well then, I guess you really don't want that keyboard you are so frantically pounding away on. ;~)

See, not only was the energy used to produce it dependent on hydrocarbons...oil, natural gas and/or coal, but the major components of that keyboard it's self are about 60% petroleum byproducts!

I don't know where you live paul...and if you are like me, you can just walk out the back door and into several hundred unbroken acres of hardwood timber and rivers, but if you don't...you can NOT get to where you can without HUGE amounts of petroleum reserves being spent, just to get you the transportation you'll use to get there. And if you ARE lucky like me...you will require the same vast reserves to get to your work...to earn money to be able to enjoy the outdoors...or to buy the necessities to live like a modern human.

Now this is not personal because there are LOT of people who like you and claim they do not care, but it's just because they don't have a CLUE just exactly what all it is in their comfy lives that is a DIRECT result of petroleum and hydrocarbon products!

And a couple weeks sleeping in a tent, on a goose down sleeping bag and cooking with sterno will NOT teach them what they can do without!

If you dropped 99% of the people reading these post in the middle of Yellowstone with a knife and a loaded gun, they would never make it out alive...little on live well!

And here's a little fact for ya. We are MORE likely to be gored to death by a deer or killed by some other wildlife in that coveted pristine outdoor space than we are to die from eating oil contaminated sea food from the gulf. We are actually 10 times more likely to die from contamination due to poor hygiene during preparation than outside contamination. That is a statistical FACT!

So, we have a choice. Live our lives in the comfort of modern conveniences, strive to do our part and confront problems as they come up...OR, live our lives in fear of "what ifs" and throw the bases of all those modern niceties out, start over and accept that it will cause abject poverty and lower the standard of living for every single man, woman and child in this country, just so the few of us that want to can have a few hours a year in a pristine wilderness that may or may NOT have been damaged had we not been so self righteous as to think we are in charge of nature!

Me, I'm an optimist and I'm certainly not going to live my life in fear of what MIGHT happen!

Hey that's your opinion and i do respect it,but i disagree. I'm an optimist too but what "MIGHT" happen has already happened too many times. A disaster will happen with this pipeline at some point. And i'm no rugged survivalist but i really do enjoy our clean water,fresh air,and toxic-free nature environment. We need to ptotect it because there's not much of it left. We've contaminated just about everything at this point. We're literally killing ourselves now. And for what? Money? Well lets try something different and say no to greed. Yea sure,we may have to pay a few more bucks for oil but we'll still have our clean environment and our dignity. I can live with that.

Hey can you give me the Powerball numbers for tonight too?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

...i like nature and clean water. The money & oil is of no importance to me. I just want a clean healthy environment to enjoy. Because in this crazy bizarre world,sometimes chillin in nature is all we have. I don't want to lose all that just for Money.

Huh...of no importance to ya. Well then, I guess you really don't want that keyboard you are so frantically pounding away on. ;~)

See, not only was the energy used to produce it dependent on hydrocarbons...oil, natural gas and/or coal, but the major components of that keyboard it's self are about 60% petroleum byproducts!

I don't know where you live paul...and if you are like me, you can just walk out the back door and into several hundred unbroken acres of hardwood timber and rivers, but if you don't...you can NOT get to where you can without HUGE amounts of petroleum reserves being spent, just to get you the transportation you'll use to get there. And if you ARE lucky like me...you will require the same vast reserves to get to your work...to earn money to be able to enjoy the outdoors...or to buy the necessities to live like a modern human.

Now this is not personal because there are LOT of people who like you and claim they do not care, but it's just because they don't have a CLUE just exactly what all it is in their comfy lives that is a DIRECT result of petroleum and hydrocarbon products!

And a couple weeks sleeping in a tent, on a goose down sleeping bag and cooking with sterno will NOT teach them what they can do without!

If you dropped 99% of the people reading these post in the middle of Yellowstone with a knife and a loaded gun, they would never make it out alive...little on live well!

And here's a little fact for ya. We are MORE likely to be gored to death by a deer or killed by some other wildlife in that coveted pristine outdoor space than we are to die from eating oil contaminated sea food from the gulf. We are actually 10 times more likely to die from contamination due to poor hygiene during preparation than outside contamination. That is a statistical FACT!

So, we have a choice. Live our lives in the comfort of modern conveniences, strive to do our part and confront problems as they come up...OR, live our lives in fear of "what ifs" and throw the bases of all those modern niceties out, start over and accept that it will cause abject poverty and lower the standard of living for every single man, woman and child in this country, just so the few of us that want to can have a few hours a year in a pristine wilderness that may or may NOT have been damaged had we not been so self righteous as to think we are in charge of nature!

Me, I'm an optimist and I'm certainly not going to live my life in fear of what MIGHT happen!

Hey that's your opinion and i do respect it,but i disagree. I'm an optimist too but what "MIGHT" happen has already happened too many times. A disaster will happen with this pipeline at some point. And i'm no rugged survivalist but i really do enjoy our clean water,fresh air,and toxic-free nature environment. We need to ptotect it because there's not much of it left. We've contaminated just about everything at this point. We're literally killing ourselves now. And for what? Money? Well lets try something different and say no to greed. Yea sure,we may have to pay a few more bucks for oil but we'll still have our clean environment and our dignity. I can live with that.

They said the same thing about the Alaskan pipeline too.

 

[paulitician]

Lets just preserve our land and our dignity. Geez,now i sound like an environmental nutter. But seriously,sometimes you have to stand up for what's right no matter what the consequences may be. My opinion is clearly the minority opinion according to this poll,so i think the pipeline will happen. But I think it's wrong. All that money wont be able to replace what this pipeline will destroy. Do we really need it? Man,i wish more people would think about this a bit more. Do we really need it?

 

[boilermaker55]

I have to admit this is a tough question. We do need the oil & jobs but there will be a big environmental impact.

What environmental impact are you referring to?

The company I work for stands to make millions on this project. We have already submitted bids for portions in Oklahoma and Texas and we've been in discussions with TransCanada for several weeks now. Things were looking good until Nebraska started bitching.

If you have not concept of any environmental impact with this pipeline and looking at the scorecard with oil companies, then you really have no merit to make rebuttal.
Mining, manufacturting bi-products, oil exploration and drilling, natural gas ...etc.
All have an impact on the environment.

 

[paulitician]

I have to admit this is a tough question. We do need the oil & jobs but there will be a big environmental impact.

What environmental impact are you referring to?

The company I work for stands to make millions on this project. We have already submitted bids for portions in Oklahoma and Texas and we've been in discussions with TransCanada for several weeks now. Things were looking good until Nebraska started bitching.

If you have not concept of any environmental impact with this pipeline and looking at the scorecard with oil companies, then you really have no merit to make rebuttal.
Mining, manufacturting bi-products, oil exploration and drilling, natural gas ...etc.
All have an impact on the environment.

Of course they do. More people need to take a closer look at what's going on in their own country. We're literally poisoning ourselves these days. And for what? Money? I'm always saddened by observing such a rush to grab that cash. It's how you get to awful BP and Exxon-like environmental calamities. Those disasters were never going to happen either. It's always the Dollar with some people. Always the Dollar. So sad.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I have to admit this is a tough question. We do need the oil & jobs but there will be a big environmental impact.

What environmental impact are you referring to?

The company I work for stands to make millions on this project. We have already submitted bids for portions in Oklahoma and Texas and we've been in discussions with TransCanada for several weeks now. Things were looking good until Nebraska started bitching.

If you have not concept of any environmental impact with this pipeline and looking at the scorecard with oil companies, then you really have no merit to make rebuttal.
Mining, manufacturting bi-products, oil exploration and drilling, natural gas ...etc.
All have an impact on the environment.

Be specific and identify the "enviromental impact" this pipeline would make.

As I stated in another post, there have been years of environmental impact studies done for this project.

 

[healthmyths]

This is especially tough for me. I find myself on the opposite side of my poster friends here who i'm usually with on issues. And my point of view on this is taking a pounding in this poll too. But i really do believe in preserving our beautiful nature in this country. It's not about the money for me. This is one we should definitely pass on.[/QUOTE


So let me get this straight!
You are concerned that a possible 4 hour leak of 2,280 gallons of oil might destroy our "beautiful nature in this country"?

Let me put that in terms I hope you can comprehend...
The Ogallala Aquifer has 953 trillion gallons.
Or 208 million gallons per square mile of Aquifer.
If in 4 hours 2,280 gallons of oil spill into the 208 million gallons.. that
represents: 0.001096% of the 208 million gallons.
An average backyard pool has 22,080 gallons of water.
The amount of oil in your pool... 16 OZ. diluted into the 22,080 gallons!

AND YOU are concerned about a glass of oil in a swimming pool of water?

Isn't that a bit hysterical???

 

[paulitician]

What environmental impact are you referring to?

The company I work for stands to make millions on this project. We have already submitted bids for portions in Oklahoma and Texas and we've been in discussions with TransCanada for several weeks now. Things were looking good until Nebraska started bitching.

If you have not concept of any environmental impact with this pipeline and looking at the scorecard with oil companies, then you really have no merit to make rebuttal.
Mining, manufacturting bi-products, oil exploration and drilling, natural gas ...etc.
All have an impact on the environment.

Be specific and identify the "enviromental impact" this pipeline would make.

As I stated in another post, there have been years of environmental impact studies done for this project.

There will be no possible negative environmental impact if they don't build it. That we know for sure. We should pass on this one. We're already destroying what little clean healthy environment we have left in this country. I would rather pay a bit more for oil than build this monstronsity. I'll sleep much better at night knowing it's not there.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

What environmental impact are you referring to?

The company I work for stands to make millions on this project. We have already submitted bids for portions in Oklahoma and Texas and we've been in discussions with TransCanada for several weeks now. Things were looking good until Nebraska started bitching.

If you have not concept of any environmental impact with this pipeline and looking at the scorecard with oil companies, then you really have no merit to make rebuttal.
Mining, manufacturting bi-products, oil exploration and drilling, natural gas ...etc.
All have an impact on the environment.

Of course they do. More people need to take a closer look at what's going on in their own country. We're literally poisoning ourselves these days. And for what? Money? I'm always saddened by observing such a rush to grab that cash. It's how you get to awful BP and Exxon-like environmental calamities. Those disasters were never going to happen either. It's always the Dollar with some people. Always the Dollar. So sad.

You cite BP and Exxon (Valdez) as if either of those incidents completely destroyed the environment and/or poisoned people. And neither is the case.

If you want an honest debate about this, then you have to be honest.

I'll concede that both incidents created temporary damage to the environment and harmed wildlife but nothing permanent.

 

[techieny]

build baby build!!!