Keynesian Economics Does Not Work

[occupied]

No single dogmatic economic philosophy works on it's own without hurting the working class, it's why we and the rest of the western world use a mix of what seems to work to keep the poor from storming the halls of government or hanging bankers in the public square.

Of course there's a mixture but if you're not leaning EXTREMELY far toward supplyside theories and away from Keynes, you don't know much economic history.

I know that a rising tide does not, in fact, raise all boats, tired of people still trying to sell that biggest lie of the 20th century.

Nothing works 100%, but relative to your liberal theories of big govt spending, the rising tide does an EXPONENTIAL amount more.

For whom? Income inequality is approaching late 19th century levels after decades of giving big business practically everything they wished for, soon they will have accomplished destroying our safety nets with their pet politicians while wages will continue to be flat or even decline, I see supply side economics as a roadmap to plutocracy, it works wonderfully to concentrate wealth at the top and to keep the working poor dependent on their usurious credit lines and for profit healthcare.

Look, we are not a Dickesonian society. America is loaded with opportunity. I wish manufacturing base would come back because that would be a huge shot in the arm to economy in terms of investment and disposable income of consumers.

I wish it would too but supply side economics cherishes the notion of exploiting ever cheaper sources of labor no matter the ill effect it has on the people who work to put profit in the owner's pocket or any national economy or environment. The bottom line for the moneyed few is the only consideration in that system.

 

[Bush92]

Strategically China is our enemy and the DoD and executive branch must be prepared to go to war with China if it is necessitated.

 

[Bush92]

Not really but we do know what did happen.

Before you post it, your come back will be, it prevented a depression. Which is just a guess, just as it would be a guess to say what would happen without the stimulus.

The entire theory for enacting the stimulus was what happened in 1929 when the stock market crash similar to 2008. The (GOP) government did nothing and just let things work themselves out on their own ("the market will adjust"). There was no stimulus, no government actions...nothing.

Guess what happened? The depression got much...MUCH....worse...the economy went from being bad to totally falling off a cliff. It led to the 1932 elections with Democrats taking over the government and the peak of the depression didn't occur until 1933...a full four years after it started.

So yeah....we kinda have a good idea what would've happened without stimulus. The central government was the ONLY creditable name out there to get money flowing...it had to take action, and it did.

1929 and 2008 ave no comparison. WW II got us out of the Great Depression...not Keneysian policies.

 

[occupied]

Not really but we do know what did happen.

Before you post it, your come back will be, it prevented a depression. Which is just a guess, just as it would be a guess to say what would happen without the stimulus.

The entire theory for enacting the stimulus was what happened in 1929 when the stock market crash similar to 2008. The (GOP) government did nothing and just let things work themselves out on their own ("the market will adjust"). There was no stimulus, no government actions...nothing.

Guess what happened? The depression got much...MUCH....worse...the economy went from being bad to totally falling off a cliff. It led to the 1932 elections with Democrats taking over the government and the peak of the depression didn't occur until 1933...a full four years after it started.

So yeah....we kinda have a good idea what would've happened without stimulus. The central government was the ONLY creditable name out there to get money flowing...it had to take action, and it did.

1929 and 2008 ave no comparison. WW II got us out of the Great Depression...not Keneysian policies.

Still government spending even if they were spending it on bombs rather than food and jobs.

 

[Bush92]

Occupied: Entrepreneurs invest their own venture capital into a business. They get to call the shots. We have to encourage them to invest in the United States of America.

 

[Bush92]

And after WWII we had a recession as economy corrected itself. As for government spending, you are forgetting that Kaiser and GM were not government owned.

 

[occupied]

Occupied: Entrepreneurs invest their own venture capital into a business. They get to call the shots. We have to encourage them to invest in the United States of America.

According to them we need to gut all labor and environmental law to better compete with China's disregard for it's people's ability to spend, breathe and live past 40.

 

[Nyvin]

According to them we need to gut all labor and environmental law to better compete with China's disregard for it's people's ability to spend, breathe and live past 40.

Yup, this is what they want all US cities to look like eventually

https://static-secure.guim.co.uk/sy...394622470360/Smog-hit-Chinese-cities--012.jpg

 

[Indeependent]

I agree with Bush92 but occupied matches reality.

 

[Nyvin]

1929 and 2008 ave no comparison. WW II got us out of the Great Depression...not Keneysian policies.

If it wasn't Keneysian policies it sure as hell wasn't supply side economics either, in fact it's arguable that supply side economics is what brought on the depression.

 

[Bush92]

Occupied: Entrepreneurs invest their own venture capital into a business. They get to call the shots. We have to encourage them to invest in the United States of America.

According to them we need to gut all labor and environmental law to better compete with China's disregard for it's people's ability to spend, breathe and live past 40.

Small business does this? We will never compete with Chinese labor so long as they manipulate currency. Our labor and environmental laws have nothing to do with it in the big picture. But, the business environment in United States is restrictive.

 

[Bush92]

1929 and 2008 ave no comparison. WW II got us out of the Great Depression...not Keneysian policies.

If it wasn't Keneysian policies it sure as hell wasn't supply side economics either, in fact it's arguable that supply side economics is what brought on the depression.

Consumer economy of 1920's had to correct itself at some point. Poor banking practices is a theme of both, but the Smoot-Hawley tariff was also a factor.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Obama s stimulus package 5 years later Dems defend Republicans ridicule - Washington Times
When are liberals going to understand that spending taxpayers money on public works projects is not the answer to our economy. These are short term boondoggles that go to Congressional districts where senior Democrats have the seat. Conservatives, however, must get off the income tax cut trip that they are on. We do not manufacture big ticket items in America anymore. If an individual gets a tax rebate and goes out and buys a washing machine, refrigerator, microwave, television, computer, etc. it stimulates the Chinese economy when factory orders go up. JFK's tax cut of 1962 was a success because orders went up for American factories due to the fact these big ticket consumer items were manufactured in the USA.

The

 

[LeftofLeft]

Economic Policies rooted in envy and class warfare are not the answer.

 

[Bush92]

Economic Policies rooted in envy and class warfare are not the answer.

Ooooooo,there's that Marxist talk again.

 

[asterism]

Do you know for certain what would've happened had there been no stimulus?

We know what the Council of Economic Advisors predicted (light blue line):

 

[asterism]

Not really but we do know what did happen.

Before you post it, your come back will be, it prevented a depression. Which is just a guess, just as it would be a guess to say what would happen without the stimulus.

The entire theory for enacting the stimulus was what happened in 1929 when the stock market crash similar to 2008. The (GOP) government did nothing and just let things work themselves out on their own ("the market will adjust"). There was no stimulus, no government actions...nothing.

Guess what happened? The depression got much...MUCH....worse...the economy went from being bad to totally falling off a cliff. It led to the 1932 elections with Democrats taking over the government and the peak of the depression didn't occur until 1933...a full four years after it started.

So yeah....we kinda have a good idea what would've happened without stimulus. The central government was the ONLY creditable name out there to get money flowing...it had to take action, and it did.

If that's the case then why did the Council of Economic Advisers predict full unemployment within 4 years with or without the stimulus?

 

[Bush92]

Do you know for certain what would've happened had there been no stimulus?

We know what the Council of Economic Advisors predicted (light blue line):

Thank you.

 

[asterism]

Even Krugman agreed with the prediction. He said it was too weak, but that the CEA estimates were close to his own.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/20...stein-on-stimulus/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

So both the White House and the left's favorite Economist thought that the unemployment rate would spike and then recover without any stimulus, the only difference was the time it would take the get there. Neither thought the stimulus would actually make things worse, and neither said that without the stimulus the US would fall into a depression.

 

[Oldstyle]

Obama s stimulus package 5 years later Dems defend Republicans ridicule - Washington Times
When are liberals going to understand that spending taxpayers money on public works projects is not the answer to our economy. These are short term boondoggles that go to Congressional districts where senior Democrats have the seat. Conservatives, however, must get off the income tax cut trip that they are on. We do not manufacture big ticket items in America anymore. If an individual gets a tax rebate and goes out and buys a washing machine, refrigerator, microwave, television, computer, etc. it stimulates the Chinese economy when factory orders go up. JFK's tax cut of 1962 was a success because orders went up for American factories due to the fact these big ticket consumer items were manufactured in the USA.

With all due respect, Bush92...saying that Keynesian Economic Theory doesn't work based on what politicians have done WITH that theory isn't fair to John Maynard Keynes!

What Keynes advocated was spending by government in economic slowdowns to stimulate economic growth but what he also advocated was raising taxes to pay back the debt that would create during economic surges.

Unfortunately our politicians spend vast sums of money during economic slowdowns but then do nothing to pay down that debt during economic booms...choosing instead to spend all of the increased revenues coming in from such a boom on more government programs. Keynes would have been horrified by what has been done with "his" theory!