Key Republicans Backing Health Reform

[nodoginnafight]

But that is not saying much. Sure, if you can quantify representation some one is going to serve you better than someone else. But, who that someone is may be different for you than it is for me.

Agreed - so it matters. I've never run across any other individual who feels exactly the way I do on ALL the issues - so I pick the closest match using my own very subjective criteria. And I think that's how it should be. I think suggesting that it doesn't matter because "they're ALL crooks" just drives people away from the process and opens the door for a motivated minority to hijack the public agenda.

 

[Bfgrn]

Have YOU ever considered that our founding fathers CREATED a GOVERNMENT. They would NEVER, EVER allow FOR PROFIT corporations to take away the freedoms of We, the people and decide who lives and who dies BASED ON PROFIT margins???

The Republican party has NO heart and NO conscience today... maybe if you were old enough to remember when Republicans had a conscience you wouldn't sound like such an idiot...

"In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people's money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

No, I've never considered that our Founding Fathers created a government. Because a freaking idiot realizes they created a government. A government that was limited in scope so the American people could govern themselves through their local communities and states.

There isnt a single corporation taking away peoples freedoms. They dont have that power. Only an over obtrusive government can take away the freedom from the people. Yet you have no problem with giving that government more and more power.

Yeah, we are the ones without conscience [/sarcasm]

REALLY? When a health insurance corporation denies you coverage or cancels your policy, even though you have lived up to your personal responsibility by paying your premiums and it leads to you losing your house, your wealth and you have to file for bankruptcy THAT is not taking away your freedom???

When a corporation pollutes the stream you fish or spews carcinogens that causes your child to develop asthma or cancer, THAT is not taking away your freedom???...Does that corporation pay the medical bills or burial costs?

You need a BRAIN to have a conscience...you are not qualified...

 

[Intense]

Have YOU ever considered that our founding fathers CREATED a GOVERNMENT. They would NEVER, EVER allow FOR PROFIT corporations to take away the freedoms of We, the people and decide who lives and who dies BASED ON PROFIT margins???

The Republican party has NO heart and NO conscience today... maybe if you were old enough to remember when Republicans had a conscience you wouldn't sound like such an idiot...

"In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people's money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

No, I've never considered that our Founding Fathers created a government. Because a freaking idiot realizes they created a government. A government that was limited in scope so the American people could govern themselves through their local communities and states.

There isnt a single corporation taking away peoples freedoms. They dont have that power. Only an over obtrusive government can take away the freedom from the people. Yet you have no problem with giving that government more and more power.

Yeah, we are the ones without conscience [/sarcasm]

REALLY? When a health insurance corporation denies you coverage or cancels your policy, even though you have lived up to your personal responsibility by paying your premiums and it leads to you losing your house, your wealth and you have to file for bankruptcy THAT is not taking away your freedom???

When a corporation pollutes the stream you fish or spews carcinogens that causes your child to develop asthma or cancer, THAT is not taking away your freedom???...Does that corporation pay the medical bills or burial costs?

You need a BRAIN to have a conscience...you are not qualified...

Those are criminal acts. Address that. Government Covers for shit like this all the time. Bottom Line, You fight Evil where You find it. Government is no less infected than the market. There is no magic pill to fix whats wrong.

 

[Andrew2382]

why do retarded liberals keep trying to bring up the repubs that back the "public option".

They don't need one god damn repub vote...Perhaps they should be bringing up the Dems that are voting against it.

And saying Arnold is for it as a point to sway the right is laughable. The guy is an idiot

 

[nodoginnafight]

Andrew - if you read the linked article, you'll find plenty of answers to your questions. Otherwise, what is it that you are trying to comment about?

 

[Intense]

If you seek out the truth and disregard the politically motivated propaganda used to raise $$$ about Edward Moore Kennedy, the man, he was loved and highly respected by Democrats AND Republicans in the Senate and Washington...

Who doesn't like the guys that supplies the booze?

See my last post about welfare. I hope that sheds some light on how I see left wing politics. The ideas are not necessarily wrong, but IMHO, it is the results and the motive that count.

Immie

I don't support motivation by punishment...especially children, which comprise half the human beings that receive welfare...

Right wing solutions are fantastic...if ONLY human beings would evaporate...

During the Great Depression, just like the current economic crisis, conservatives railed against government intervention... their solution: let the market heal itself and the economy will recover in the long run...

Prompting FDR's Commerce Secretary Harry Hopkins to say: "People don't eat in the long run. They eat every day."

PEOPLE before profits, property OR ideology... if that is NOT your priorities, then you are not a moral person...

Convoluted crap to support bad policy rooted in Union Paybacks, and overcompensation, and raises, at the expense of the rest, spiraling unemployment because of the increased level of support for the privileged Party Class. That policy raised taxes, slowed the economy even more, and stifled sales. The exchange of money, from hand to hand was slowed by Government over taxing every exchange.

When you shop, do you wait for the sales to start or do you wait for the sales to end? When something is on sale to you avoid it or buy extra? You stifle the flow of goods and cause layoffs by making it harder to buy. Only a convoluted Shit gives them selves raises and increases mandated costs that benefit the Few at everyones expense.

But You already know that, and you know that it is about control of the power structure and not about caring for anybody, comrade, that isn't carrying a Party or Union Card.

 

[Wicked Jester]

why do retarded liberals keep trying to bring up the repubs that back the "public option".

They don't need one god damn repub vote...Perhaps they should be bringing up the Dems that are voting against it.

And saying Arnold is for it as a point to sway the right is laughable. The guy is an idiot

Arnolds latest fiasco, actually he has been trying to do it for years, is to do away with court reporters in criminal courts, and go with recorded reporting devices.
He actually thinks that costing a couple of thousand court reporters their jobs will save money. My wife is one of those reporters in downtown L.A. criminal courts.
The recording devices have been proven unable to decipher various accents. They've been fully proven unable to decipher ebonics. Have you ever been inside an L.A. criminal court? Probabaly 60% of witnesses, defendents and such are ghetto hounds. Seeing as though the majority of criminals come from the ghettos. You know, the gangbangers and such. These defendents and witnesses drive the reporters friggin' bonkers. Trying to get an accurate record of proceedings is no easy task. Trying to get a recording device to produce an accurate record would be a lesson in total futility. Particularly when hard records of the proceedings have to be produced. All this fiasco of a plan would do is cost much more money. You will have Judges constantly having to stop proceedings and telling defendents to speak properly. Speak into the microhone. Quit speaking like you're back in the hood.
It's ludicrous.
Yes, Arnold is an idiot alright.

 

[Immanuel]

I don't support motivation by punishment...especially children, which comprise half the human beings that receive welfare...

Right wing solutions are fantastic...if ONLY human beings would evaporate...

During the Great Depression, just like the current economic crisis, conservatives railed against government intervention... their solution: let the market heal itself and the economy will recover in the long run...

Prompting FDR's Commerce Secretary Harry Hopkins to say: "People don't eat in the long run. They eat every day."

PEOPLE before profits, property OR ideology... if that is NOT your priorities, then you are not a moral person...

This is a re-post of a reply to a pm I sent a little while go. I hope it clears up my point of view:

I don't think we should punish anyone although, I do believe that if you are caught abusing the system, that you should lose your Welfare. I've known people who (I am pretty sure) collect their welfare checks and drink their beer all day long on the government's dollar... and in the meantime work under the table for cash. That in my opinion is just plain wrong. But, I am not talking about punishing anyone. Let's see if I can explain my point of view a little different.

My feelings about Welfare are that... well, how about I put it like this. Maybe this analogy will work?

Welfare is like a drug... get hooked on it and you are addicted to it most likely forever. It takes a person with a strong will to break its bonds. I would rather see a system that provided for the needs of the poor and yet helped them to climb out of the problems they have found themselves in.

For instance, one reason people, especially single mothers get stuck in Welfare is that once they get in the system, it would cost them more to break the bonds of Welfare because of the cost of Daycare than it does to stay in the system. They can't afford to go to work because any difference between their paycheck and the Welfare Check is eaten up by Daycare and other costs associated with working. So rather than punishing the single mother who would like to work make it possible for her by not cutting off her coverage right away simply because she is working and by providing Daycare services at least for a time so that she can work and take care of her kids.

If a person is in the Welfare System, we could require some community service and one of those services might be as one day a week (or month?) volunteering as an aide in the state run Daycare for Welfare recipients.

Also providing job training and other useful skills would be a good idea.

I don't think we should punish anyone for being in need, but I think we should do everything we can to help them escape from it.

Unfortunately, where you and I can't come to agree on is the motives of the Democratic Party for supporting Welfare. I am 100% certain that the motive of the Democratic Party is control of the poor. You see as long as they can scare the poor into believing that a Republican has the intention of destroying Welfare, it is a pretty good bet that a hell of a lot of the poor are going to vote anti-Republican. And anti-Republican votes correspond to Democratic victories and power for the Democratic Party.

That is not to say that the Republicans do not do the same thing with other issues. For instance, one that is near and dear to my heart is the pro-life stance. The Republicans use their pro-life platform to convince voters that a vote for the Democratic candidate is a vote for abortion on demand and they convince a lot of people that this is true, while on the other hand, Democrats use the pro-choice movement for similar reasons.

Motive is the key. I am convinced that the motivation of our politicians is nearly 100% -- power. That doesn't mean that any particular candidate doesn't support particular issues, but too many of them sell themselves to the lobbyist with the most cash and to the party that will bring them the most votes.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

But that is not saying much. Sure, if you can quantify representation some one is going to serve you better than someone else. But, who that someone is may be different for you than it is for me.

Agreed - so it matters. I've never run across any other individual who feels exactly the way I do on ALL the issues - so I pick the closest match using my own very subjective criteria. And I think that's how it should be. I think suggesting that it doesn't matter because "they're ALL crooks" just drives people away from the process and opens the door for a motivated minority to hijack the public agenda.

I don't think that I suggested such a thing. If I did, I did not mean to.

My problem is that you can't believe a doggone thing any one of them say. Also, I didn't, I don't think, say they were all crooks. I said they were corrupt. There is a difference. A crook is in my book a thief. Someone who is corrupt might take a bribe, but he/she is not a thief. One can sell his vote to the highest bidder and not be a thief.

If I believe as I stated above about Welfare and somehow I found myself in Congress as a Democrat and the Chairman of the Democratic Committee approached me and suggested that I vote against a Welfare Reform Bill that did everything I stated above because it was a Republican Bill and it would cost the Democratic Party (not to mention me) votes and money and that if I should refuse I would lose support on another bill, and I sold out that would be corruption. That is the game that politicians play and it is doggone scummy.

And I hate to suggest this to Bfgrn, but that is a game that Edward Kennedy was very good at. The two parties rule this country. That is why I support term limits. When they get comfortable in their seats in Washington is when we need to send them home.

Immie

 

[Bfgrn]

Who doesn't like the guys that supplies the booze?

See my last post about welfare. I hope that sheds some light on how I see left wing politics. The ideas are not necessarily wrong, but IMHO, it is the results and the motive that count.

Immie

I don't support motivation by punishment...especially children, which comprise half the human beings that receive welfare...

Right wing solutions are fantastic...if ONLY human beings would evaporate...

During the Great Depression, just like the current economic crisis, conservatives railed against government intervention... their solution: let the market heal itself and the economy will recover in the long run...

Prompting FDR's Commerce Secretary Harry Hopkins to say: "People don't eat in the long run. They eat every day."

PEOPLE before profits, property OR ideology... if that is NOT your priorities, then you are not a moral person...

Convoluted crap to support bad policy rooted in Union Paybacks, and overcompensation, and raises, at the expense of the rest, spiraling unemployment because of the increased level of support for the privileged Party Class. That policy raised taxes, slowed the economy even more, and stifled sales. The exchange of money, from hand to hand was slowed by Government over taxing every exchange.

When you shop, do you wait for the sales to start or do you wait for the sales to end? When something is on sale to you avoid it or buy extra? You stifle the flow of goods and cause layoffs by making it harder to buy. Only a convoluted Shit gives them selves raises and increases mandated costs that benefit the Few at everyones expense.

But You already know that, and you know that it is about control of the power structure and not about caring for anybody, comrade, that isn't carrying a Party or Union Card.

Your response has no correlation to my post...you are off on some right wing rant that reflects on YOU...

It takes one to KNOW one...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Have YOU ever considered that our founding fathers CREATED a GOVERNMENT. They would NEVER, EVER allow FOR PROFIT corporations to take away the freedoms of We, the people and decide who lives and who dies BASED ON PROFIT margins???

The Republican party has NO heart and NO conscience today... maybe if you were old enough to remember when Republicans had a conscience you wouldn't sound like such an idiot...

"In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people's money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

No, I've never considered that our Founding Fathers created a government. Because a freaking idiot realizes they created a government. A government that was limited in scope so the American people could govern themselves through their local communities and states.

There isnt a single corporation taking away peoples freedoms. They dont have that power. Only an over obtrusive government can take away the freedom from the people. Yet you have no problem with giving that government more and more power.

Yeah, we are the ones without conscience [/sarcasm]

Avatar has just done the impossible. Not only is the argument inverted about corporations (oh, heck, yes, they can take away our freedoms), the argument is dead on about government. What Avatar won't admit is that the GOP was giving the government to the corporations: business welfare, outsourcing, private armies, etc etc etc ad infinitum ad nauseum.

Just at the Obama campaign went forward with "yes, we can", the great majority of Americans will greet the GOP next year with, "no, you won't".

 

[Cecilie1200]

Let me be clear: I don't care if Ronald Reagan himself rises from the grave, endorses Obama's healthcare plans, and gives him a big, sloppy kiss on the mouth. I don't subscribe to celebrity politics, wherein namedropping is expected to take the place of substantial discussion on the actual merits and drawbacks of a given policy proposal.

If you want me to support a given healthcare proposal, you're going to have to give me a better reason why it's a good idea than just "So-and-so likes it".

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

"Seeking to provide fresh evidence of bipartisan support for health-care reform, the White House is orchestrating a series of endorsements from GOP heavyweights around the country.

With a key Senate panel poised to vote on a broad bill, President Obama and his top aides have reached out to current and retired Republican leaders in the hopes of countering the charge that Democrats are using their congressional majorities to push through partisan legislation.

And in the past two days, former Senate Republican leader Bill Frist; George W. Bush health and human services secretary Tommy G. Thompson and Medicare chief Mark McClellan; California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger; and New York Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg -- a Republican turned independent -- have all spoken favorably of overhauling the nation's health-care system, if couched with plenty of caveats regarding the details."

washingtonpost.com

Do you think this will be enough cover for moderate Democrats in conservative states and for moderate Republicans to support reform bill?

Bloomberg Democrat turned Republican turned Independent.

I think most want to see Reform, not to be confused with Scam.

If reform is getting the feds out of the equation completely, that I would be for.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

The point of the OP is meaningless, unless one is a drooling at the mouth partisan hack, who would rather follow than exercise some individualism.

 

[Avatar4321]

REALLY? When a health insurance corporation denies you coverage or cancels your policy, even though you have lived up to your personal responsibility by paying your premiums and it leads to you losing your house, your wealth and you have to file for bankruptcy THAT is not taking away your freedom???

When a corporation pollutes the stream you fish or spews carcinogens that causes your child to develop asthma or cancer, THAT is not taking away your freedom???...Does that corporation pay the medical bills or burial costs?

You need a BRAIN to have a conscience...you are not qualified...

When the heck does that ever happen???? Name a single person who paid their premiums who did not recieve their coverage and lost their house, wealth, and filed for bankrupcy?!? If this is so common you should be able to find at least one.

And say this is a legitimate problem. Your plan is to turn insurance coverage over to the government? The GOVERNMENT?!?! They are the provider that is most likely to deny coverage! And unlike corporations, whom you can sue and compelled to pay what they owe you, the government is protected by soveriegn immunity.

And should an insurance company do such a thing, you can go out and buy new insurance. When the government seizes control over the industry, that will no longer be an option to change companies.

Yeah, your solution makes total sense. Block all competition and grant a monopoly to the one organization who denies coverage at the highest rate. Brilliant! I'm so glad there are people with "brains" out there!

We just need to get those evil corporations who employ people. Let's make sure no one can work for those evil entities. They should all work for the government. yeah... that way they arent working for those evil companies! How dare they supply people with what they want and *Gasp* earn a profit! How dare someone work hard for a living and actually succeed! We need to get those people!

 

[Cecilie1200]

THAT is exactly what I'm saying... there is no 100% of anything, so stuff the polarized arguments...

Today's GOP has become a party of extremists... conservatives without conscience...

Ted Kennedy worked for people over profit or property his whole career...

Oh my God, did you blow Ted? Ted Kennedy worked for Ted Kennedy and nothing else.

Dems only care about people and Reps only care about profit? Take your head out of you ass. They are all in it for the power.

I suppose that you think Nancy Pelosi is only in it for the good of the people too.

As for polarized arguments, polarized means one side over the other. Seems to me that it is your argument that is polarized not mine.

polarize definition - Dictionary - MSN Encarta

Immie

So what you're saying is because right wingers are scum, everyone else is too...you're just honest about being scum?

Why not? Democrats are always telling us how everyone is an immoral horndog, but they're better because they're honest about it and don't even pretend to aspire to be more.

 

[Cecilie1200]

There are good people in both parties... they simply don't work in Washington.

I believe they all start out with good intentions. Unfortunately, in order to survive in Washington politics, they have to "play to game". The game doesn't leave room for those who want to help the people.

Immie

Ted Kennedy helped A LOT of PEOPLE...he never played "the game"...

The Kennedys were never "for sale"...

President Obama has the right idea... corporations, special interests and lobbyists need to be removed from our political process...

Are all Democrats for the people...NO. But in comparison to today's Republicans, they're Mother Teressa

Yeah, Ted Kennedy helped a lot of people . . . provided they weren't his mistress and trapped in a sinking Oldsmobile.

 

[Cecilie1200]

AGAIN...Ted Kennedy did... he always put people first... if anyone needed a champion, Kennedy was there... he never put profit or property before human beings...

Unles your name was "Mary Jo"...

Typical PEA brain response...

Translation: you have no response... so bring up an ACCIDENT...

ac⋅ci⋅dent
–noun
1. an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.

He "accidentally" swam away alone, climbed out of the water, and went back to town to create an alibi, leaving her there to drown? I see.

Actually, I think "He was a shitty excuse for a human being" is an excellent response to your attempts to deify a drunken, lecherous, arguably murderous piece of pig offal.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The Associated Press: Schwarzenegger supports health overhaul goals

Schwarzenegger supports health overhaul goals
By ERICA WERNER (AP) – 3 hours ago
WASHINGTON — California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger praised President Barack Obama's drive to overhaul the nation's health care system on Tuesday and urged fellow Republicans to join in efforts to finish the job this year.
Although Schwarzenegger stopped short of embracing a Democratic bill, his words of encouragement came on the heels of similar statements from other Republicans outside Congress, including former Senate Republican leader Bill Frist. The White House and Democrats highlighted them as evidence of momentum and division within GOP ranks. Congressional Republicans have been nearly unanimous in opposition to Democratic legislation.
Schwarzenegger, who two years ago tried but failed to pass a universal health care plan in California, said in a statement that he appreciated Obama's partnership with the states and his effort to hold down costs and improve quality. He urged lawmakers from both parties to "move forward and accomplish these vital goals for the American people."
<more>


threads merged-del

....like Arnie matters....Junkie do you think about what you post?....or do you just react?....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Schwartzenegger will say whatever Maria tells him to say, she is the one that wears the Fruit Of The Looms in that family. I had high expectations of him when the recall happened. But, he was all talk and no action, he's impotent with the republicans. What he has to say means nothing, as he is more of a socialist than most democrats. His days in the republican party will end with his governorship.

did you really?
i knew he was going to be just as bad as Grey Davis, and he hasn't disappointed on that one

yea i thought he would be too....he was a better Governor BEFORE he became the Governor....about 6 months after he got in, there was a major cave-in...in the Scrotum mine...the sack was recovered,but the balls were lost........