Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[paulitician]

The subject of the thread isn't about gays.

No. It's your inconsistency.

It's not that either. And seeing the other side's view is good for the cause. Ignoring it, will destroy the cause.

That makes no sense. They aren't changing their view and they don't have the legitimate right to deny us Constitutional rights. Why do we need to understand our oppressors?

Being a gun-obsessed asshole won't help the cause. It'll only hurt it.

So we're assholes while the anti-gun crowd are just concerned citizens, but you're on our side. Thanks, that is so reassuring

Most gun owners are not gun-obsessed assholes. But too many are. And that is a concern to many Americans. Sorry, but i'm just telling you the real deal.

 

[paulitician]

Describe these people you call obsessed? I described myself. Am I one of them?

How would you describe obsessed? Do you need a 100 guns?

Am I a collector? Do I sell guns? Does having 100 acres of property make me obsessed? DEFINE OBSESSED!

Do you need 100 guns? Surely, you can see how that could be a little disturbing to many? Just a little obsessive, no?

 

[Wry Catcher]

A good first step is registration of all firearms and background checks on ALL gun sales. Even between private parties. This will allow responsible gun owners to continue to own anything they want but will help place responsibility on to people who sell guns to people who shouldn't have them or end up using them for murder/crime.

We can certainly start there.

Add in a $200 a year license per gun...

What about free speech, can we charge a $200 license for that? What about freedom from illegal search and seizure? Are all our Constitutional rights fair game for government to sell us or just that one?

Silly argument posted too many times.

• There are exceptions to search and seizure, a warrant is not always necessary***
• As for Free Speech, it's a right to exercise it, why not board commerical airplane and tell the flight attendant you have a bomb.

***Exceptions to the Warrant Requirement

 

[paulitician]

Unless you've been in the gun selling business, you don't really know gun owners. I'm a gun owner who's sold numerous firearms. I've seen it all. So when i say there's too many gun-obsessed assholes out there, you can bet it's reality.

 

[Ernie S.]

DESCRIBE a gun obsessed asshole. How would I recognize him on the street?

 

[Ernie S.]

Describe these people you call obsessed? I described myself. Am I one of them?

How would you describe obsessed? Do you need a 100 guns?

Am I a collector? Do I sell guns? Does having 100 acres of property make me obsessed? DEFINE OBSESSED!

Do you need 100 guns? Surely, you can see how that could be a little disturbing to many? Just a little obsessive, no?

Do I NEED 100? No, but I want 250. How is that obsessive?
Let's suppose I had a 9x12 foot bank vault here and you saw me in public. Would you know I was a gun owner? What about me would tell you I had a vault with 1,000 weapons and a million rounds of ammo?

 

[Ernie S.]

I am in the bar business. I can describe a booze obsessed asshole.
Do "gun-obsessed assholes" slur their words? Fall off their bar stools?

 

[paulitician]

Describe these people you call obsessed? I described myself. Am I one of them?

How would you describe obsessed? Do you need a 100 guns?

Am I a collector? Do I sell guns? Does having 100 acres of property make me obsessed? DEFINE OBSESSED!

Do you need 100 guns? Surely, you can see how that could be a little disturbing to many? Just a little obsessive, no?

Do I NEED 100? No, but I want 250. How is that obsessive?
Let's suppose I had a 9x12 foot bank vault here and you saw me in public. Would you know I was a gun owner? What about me would tell you I had a vault with 1,000 weapons and a million rounds of ammo?

Hey, if you equate 'collecting' hundreds of firearms with collecting stamps, i probably can't help you. Don't know anyone who would be concerned with someone having hundreds of stamps. But hundreds of guns? Yeah, i think that could be of concern to many.

 

[Wry Catcher]

A good first step is registration of all firearms and background checks on ALL gun sales. Even between private parties. This will allow responsible gun owners to continue to own anything they want but will help place responsibility on to people who sell guns to people who shouldn't have them or end up using them for murder/crime.

We can certainly start there.

So how will you get the criminals to abide by the registration laws? How will you keep the criminals from stealing firearms? How will you keep the criminals from obtaining firearms in other countries and walking across our southern border with them?

People who actually think they can get criminals to obey gun laws are terminally obtuse.

A criminal by definition does not obey the law. Does your argument apply to all laws too?

Some law breakers/criminals can be dissuaded when the consequence for violation is severe, and many of us obey speed limits and other easily committed crimes because of their cost when cited/arrested and convicted.

MADD has been an effective organization in reducing drunk driving. During my career in LE we saw a dozen or more new sanctions for DUI introduced in CA and signed by the Governors, including:

• Fines increased Dramatically
• Penalty Assessments Increased Dramatically
• License Suspensions and Revocations
• Jail Mandatory for a first conviction
• Longer Jail sentences for second and subsequent convictions
• A third DUI can be charged as a Felony
• Vehicle Impounded on first and subsequent arrests
• Breathalyzers installed in registered vehicles on the driver's dime
• A one year attendance in an alcohol treatment program (one night a week) paid for by the convicted driver
• Generally three years probation.

MADD is a good model to keep in mind and a likely force if the gun owners, NRA and the other gun organizations won't begin to police themselves.

 

[Ernie S.]

Describe these people you call obsessed? I described myself. Am I one of them?

How would you describe obsessed? Do you need a 100 guns?

Am I a collector? Do I sell guns? Does having 100 acres of property make me obsessed? DEFINE OBSESSED!

Do you need 100 guns? Surely, you can see how that could be a little disturbing to many? Just a little obsessive, no?

Do I NEED 100? No, but I want 250. How is that obsessive?
Let's suppose I had a 9x12 foot bank vault here and you saw me in public. Would you know I was a gun owner? What about me would tell you I had a vault with 1,000 weapons and a million rounds of ammo?

Hey, if you equate 'collecting' hundreds of firearms with collecting stamps, i probably can't help you. Don't know anyone who would be concerned with someone having hundreds of stamps. But hundreds of guns? Yeah, i think that could be of concern to many.

What makes a person having many guns any more dangerous than a person who owns one?

 

[paulitician]

How would you describe obsessed? Do you need a 100 guns?

Am I a collector? Do I sell guns? Does having 100 acres of property make me obsessed? DEFINE OBSESSED!

Do you need 100 guns? Surely, you can see how that could be a little disturbing to many? Just a little obsessive, no?

Do I NEED 100? No, but I want 250. How is that obsessive?
Let's suppose I had a 9x12 foot bank vault here and you saw me in public. Would you know I was a gun owner? What about me would tell you I had a vault with 1,000 weapons and a million rounds of ammo?

Hey, if you equate 'collecting' hundreds of firearms with collecting stamps, i probably can't help you. Don't know anyone who would be concerned with someone having hundreds of stamps. But hundreds of guns? Yeah, i think that could be of concern to many.

What makes a person having many guns any more dangerous than a person who owns one?

More, less, who knows? But if you have 200 guns, you probably are just a tad bit obsessed. And personally, i don't feel being gun-obsessed is healthy. I'm a gun owner saying that.

 

[2aguy]

A good first step is registration of all firearms and background checks on ALL gun sales. Even between private parties. This will allow responsible gun owners to continue to own anything they want but will help place responsibility on to people who sell guns to people who shouldn't have them or end up using them for murder/crime.

We can certainly start there.

So how will you get the criminals to abide by the registration laws? How will you keep the criminals from stealing firearms? How will you keep the criminals from obtaining firearms in other countries and walking across our southern border with them?

People who actually think they can get criminals to obey gun laws are terminally obtuse.

A criminal by definition does not obey the law. Does your argument apply to all laws too?

Some law breakers/criminals can be dissuaded when the consequence for violation is severe, and many of us obey speed limits and other easily committed crimes because of their cost when cited/arrested and convicted.

MADD has been an effective organization in reducing drunk driving. During my career in LE we saw a dozen or more new sanctions for DUI introduced in CA and signed by the Governors, including:

• Fines increased Dramatically
• Penalty Assessments Increased Dramatically
• License Suspensions and Revocations
• Jail Mandatory for a first conviction
• Longer Jail sentences for second and subsequent convictions
• A third DUI can be charged as a Felony
• Vehicle Impounded on first and subsequent arrests
• Breathalyzers installed in registered vehicles on the driver's dime
• A one year attendance in an alcohol treatment program (one night a week) paid for by the convicted driver
• Generally three years probation.

MADD is a good model to keep in mind and a likely force if the gun owners, NRA and the other gun organizations won't begin to police themselves.

Okay genius........what do all of those things have in common.......they happen to those who break the law. None of those things are expected to be done to law abiding innocent people you moron. Your whole stupid belief system falls apart with this post.

Those of us who support the right to own and carry guns post all the time that the problem is that prosecutors and judges are not putting gun criminals in jail.....The police Superintendent of Chicago just stated that they arrested 2,100 gun criminals, and prosecutors and judges let them right back out on the street.....

We tell you morons that the way to stop gun crime is exactly what you posted for MADD...and what you say they did in california....but we actually want to be tougher because the criminals are using guns...


You....you want to apply all of those things...but to people who have committed no crime, have broken no law. You essentially want all cars to have breathalyzers before anyone is arrested for a DUI...because they aren't a drunk driver till they drive drunk, so all cars need breathalyzers...that is you argument for guns

 

[Ernie S.]

A good first step is registration of all firearms and background checks on ALL gun sales. Even between private parties. This will allow responsible gun owners to continue to own anything they want but will help place responsibility on to people who sell guns to people who shouldn't have them or end up using them for murder/crime.

We can certainly start there.

So how will you get the criminals to abide by the registration laws? How will you keep the criminals from stealing firearms? How will you keep the criminals from obtaining firearms in other countries and walking across our southern border with them?

People who actually think they can get criminals to obey gun laws are terminally obtuse.

A criminal by definition does not obey the law. Does your argument apply to all laws too?

Some law breakers/criminals can be dissuaded when the consequence for violation is severe, and many of us obey speed limits and other easily committed crimes because of their cost when cited/arrested and convicted.

MADD has been an effective organization in reducing drunk driving. During my career in LE we saw a dozen or more new sanctions for DUI introduced in CA and signed by the Governors, including:

• Fines increased Dramatically
• Penalty Assessments Increased Dramatically
• License Suspensions and Revocations
• Jail Mandatory for a first conviction
• Longer Jail sentences for second and subsequent convictions
• A third DUI can be charged as a Felony
• Vehicle Impounded on first and subsequent arrests
• Breathalyzers installed in registered vehicles on the driver's dime
• A one year attendance in an alcohol treatment program (one night a week) paid for by the convicted driver
• Generally three years probation.

MADD is a good model to keep in mind and a likely force if the gun owners, NRA and the other gun organizations won't begin to police themselves.

DWI is against the law. There SHOULD be severe penalties.
Owning a gun is a protected right.
Now, what you do with a gun is a personal choice. I choose not to shoot people unless I absolutely must. I an not dangerous to you unless you do something incredibly stupid like the clown at my bar did a month ago and bring a knife to a gun fight.
Some people intend to use a gun in a criminal manner. Those crimes would still be illegal if done with a knife or a needle. The choice of weapon is irrelevant.

 

[2aguy]

Look moron.......again, to drive home the point on how dumb your points are.....

Everything you say that MADD has implemented....happens after the person breaks the law.....Right?

they do not do any of those things until the person gets behind the wheel and drives drunk .....right?

And then the punishments listed go into effect...right?

MADD has been an effective organization in reducing drunk driving. During my career in LE we saw a dozen or more new sanctions for DUI introduced in CA and signed by the Governors, including:

• Fines increased Dramatically
• Penalty Assessments Increased Dramatically
• License Suspensions and Revocations
• Jail Mandatory for a first conviction
• Longer Jail sentences for second and subsequent convictions
• A third DUI can be charged as a Felony
• Vehicle Impounded on first and subsequent arrests
• Breathalyzers installed in registered vehicles on the driver's dime
• A one year attendance in an alcohol treatment program (one night a week) paid for by the convicted driver
• Generally three years probation.

MADD is a good model to keep in mind and a likely force if the gun owners, NRA and the other gun organizations won't begin to police themselves.


Okay, smart guy......which of the above things happen before the driver drives drunk?

Not one of them.....

But, you want the equivalent of Breathalyzers in all cars, but for gun owners....you want them all to have a license to own a legal product even though they have broken no law. You want to punish them before they become a criminal.

 

[Ernie S.]

Am I a collector? Do I sell guns? Does having 100 acres of property make me obsessed? DEFINE OBSESSED!

Do you need 100 guns? Surely, you can see how that could be a little disturbing to many? Just a little obsessive, no?

Do I NEED 100? No, but I want 250. How is that obsessive?
Let's suppose I had a 9x12 foot bank vault here and you saw me in public. Would you know I was a gun owner? What about me would tell you I had a vault with 1,000 weapons and a million rounds of ammo?

Hey, if you equate 'collecting' hundreds of firearms with collecting stamps, i probably can't help you. Don't know anyone who would be concerned with someone having hundreds of stamps. But hundreds of guns? Yeah, i think that could be of concern to many.

What makes a person having many guns any more dangerous than a person who owns one?

More, less, who knows? But if you have 200 guns, you probably are just a tad bit obsessed. And personally, i don't feel being gun-obsessed is healthy. I'm a gun owner saying that.

So, you STILL can't describe what a gun obsessed asshole looks or acts like.

The point is, if you saw me on the street, you would have no idea how many guns I had and more importantly, what I am likely to do with them.

 

[2aguy]

A good first step is registration of all firearms and background checks on ALL gun sales. Even between private parties. This will allow responsible gun owners to continue to own anything they want but will help place responsibility on to people who sell guns to people who shouldn't have them or end up using them for murder/crime.

We can certainly start there.

So how will you get the criminals to abide by the registration laws? How will you keep the criminals from stealing firearms? How will you keep the criminals from obtaining firearms in other countries and walking across our southern border with them?

People who actually think they can get criminals to obey gun laws are terminally obtuse.

A criminal by definition does not obey the law. Does your argument apply to all laws too?

Some law breakers/criminals can be dissuaded when the consequence for violation is severe, and many of us obey speed limits and other easily committed crimes because of their cost when cited/arrested and convicted.

MADD has been an effective organization in reducing drunk driving. During my career in LE we saw a dozen or more new sanctions for DUI introduced in CA and signed by the Governors, including:

• Fines increased Dramatically
• Penalty Assessments Increased Dramatically
• License Suspensions and Revocations
• Jail Mandatory for a first conviction
• Longer Jail sentences for second and subsequent convictions
• A third DUI can be charged as a Felony
• Vehicle Impounded on first and subsequent arrests
• Breathalyzers installed in registered vehicles on the driver's dime
• A one year attendance in an alcohol treatment program (one night a week) paid for by the convicted driver
• Generally three years probation.

MADD is a good model to keep in mind and a likely force if the gun owners, NRA and the other gun organizations won't begin to police themselves.

MADD is a good model to keep in mind and a likely force if the gun owners, NRA and the other gun organizations won't begin to police themselves.

Gun owners support arrest and long prison sentences for gun criminals and felons caught with guns...how is that different than what MADD does genius?

A third DUI can be charged as a Felony

A first gun offense is a felony moron.

Vehicle Impounded on first and subsequent arrests

If you are a convicted felon you can never own a gun again....right?

Breathalyzers installed in registered vehicles on the driver's dime

As a felon you go into the federal data base for background checks already...right genius?

Vehicle Impounded on first and subsequent arrests

If you are caught with a gun you lose it...if you are a convicted criminal caught with a gun, you can be arrested on the spot....

So what exactly isn't the NRA doing to support all of these things that already happen....

Do you actually use your brain....?

 

[paulitician]

Do you need 100 guns? Surely, you can see how that could be a little disturbing to many? Just a little obsessive, no?

Do I NEED 100? No, but I want 250. How is that obsessive?
Let's suppose I had a 9x12 foot bank vault here and you saw me in public. Would you know I was a gun owner? What about me would tell you I had a vault with 1,000 weapons and a million rounds of ammo?

Hey, if you equate 'collecting' hundreds of firearms with collecting stamps, i probably can't help you. Don't know anyone who would be concerned with someone having hundreds of stamps. But hundreds of guns? Yeah, i think that could be of concern to many.

What makes a person having many guns any more dangerous than a person who owns one?

More, less, who knows? But if you have 200 guns, you probably are just a tad bit obsessed. And personally, i don't feel being gun-obsessed is healthy. I'm a gun owner saying that.

So, you STILL can't describe what a gun obsessed asshole looks or acts like.

The point is, if you saw me on the street, you would have no idea how many guns I had and more importantly, what I am likely to do with them.

Just giving you another side of the story. Most people don't see you having 200 guns as being normal. And like i said earlier, i sold guns for a time. I know gun owners better than most.

I got to a point where i did have to question whether or not many of them should have firearms. I soon got out of the gun selling business. I saw firsthand what gun-obsessed addicts look like. It's pretty ugly.

 

[paulitician]

I'm a staunch 2nd Amendment supporter, but i also realize we do have problems. I mean, i just read about the kid who shot up his school recently. He left a note stating he wanted to be buried in his camo. His father used to dress him up in camo and taught him to enjoy killing and maiming. He was later arrested for illegally acquiring the firearm his son used in the massacre.

It's a culture problem. The kid was raised on violence. His father was a typical gun-obsessed asshole. He taught his child violence. We have to change our culture. We have to become less violent. We have to stop teaching children violence. Maybe stop handing children guns and teaching them how to kill and maim. I know that upsets hunters especially, but it is time to reconsider handing their children guns. We live in a very different time.

 

[2aguy]

I'm a staunch 2nd Amendment supporter, but i also realize we do have problems. I mean, i just read about the kid who shot up his school recently. He left a note stating he wanted to be buried in his camo. His father used to dress him up in camo and taught him to enjoy killing and maiming.

It's a culture problem. The kid was raised on violence. His father was a typical gun-obsessed asshole. He taught his child violence. We have to change our culture. We have to become less violent. We have to stop teaching children violence. Maybe stop handing children guns and teaching them how to kill and maim. I know that upsets hunters, but it is time to reconsider handing their children guns. We live in a very different time.

We don't teach children how to kill and maim with guns...Some teach their children how to provide food with their guns, and others teach children how to responsibly use guns, and others teach them how to use guns for self defense.....

Then, in democrat controlled cities, in single mother headed households, where a teenage girl raised by a teenage girl raised by a teenage girl has male children whose only adult male role models will be sociapaths in gangs....

That is the culture you need to change.....the others are just fine.

 

[paulitician]

I'm a staunch 2nd Amendment supporter, but i also realize we do have problems. I mean, i just read about the kid who shot up his school recently. He left a note stating he wanted to be buried in his camo. His father used to dress him up in camo and taught him to enjoy killing and maiming.

It's a culture problem. The kid was raised on violence. His father was a typical gun-obsessed asshole. He taught his child violence. We have to change our culture. We have to become less violent. We have to stop teaching children violence. Maybe stop handing children guns and teaching them how to kill and maim. I know that upsets hunters, but it is time to reconsider handing their children guns. We live in a very different time.

We don't teach children how to kill and maim with guns...Some teach their children how to provide food with their guns, and others teach children how to responsibly use guns, and others teach them how to use guns for self defense.....

Then, in democrat controlled cities, in single mother headed households, where a teenage girl raised by a teenage girl raised by a teenage girl has male children whose only adult male role models will be sociapaths in gangs....

That is the culture you need to change.....the others are just fine.

I'm not coming down on hunters only. Kids are being taught violence in general. But it is time for hunters to reconsider handing their children guns. Teaching them to kill and maim seems both unwise and unnecessary nowadays.

Maybe when they become adults, you hand em a gun and teach them about hunting. But not when they're children. Society's already bombarding them enough with violence. Handing them a gun and teaching em to kill and maim Bambi, is an ugly violent act. It's not necessary. Time to change our ways. No more promoting violence to children.