Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[boilermaker55]

What do you propose?
More prisons?

Thanks for sharing Rabbit, now look up the form of questions I posted for evidence you are what you accuse me of being; then read all of my responses. IM(not so)HO your lack of substance and inability to defend your ideology (Crazy Right Winger) has many explanations, not the least of which is you're poorly educated and have a callous disregard for anyone and any idea which threatens your ego. You may not be dull normal, but there is no evidence to suggest that is not true.

That still doesnt answer the question of what gun laws do you support that will reduce or eliminate gun violence.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Rabbi(t) doesn't propose anything, he's basically a whiner; in thousands of posts, he has never had a sagacious moment or shown any interest in thinking outside the box of the current conservative dogma.

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi(t) doesn't propose anything, he's basically a whiner; in thousands of posts, he has never had a sagacious moment or shown any interest in thinking outside the box of the current conservative dogma.

hmm. lemme check.
Nope, still not answering hte question as to which gun laws do you think will reduce or eliminate gun violence.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Rabbi(t) doesn't propose anything, he's basically a whiner; in thousands of posts, he has never had a sagacious moment or shown any interest in thinking outside the box of the current conservative dogma.

hmm. lemme check.
Nope, still not answering hte question as to which gun laws do you think will reduce or eliminate gun violence.

The only law which will eliminate gun violence, you jerk, is to eliminate guns from the environment.

That is exactly what you wanted read, and thus you will claim victory and will take this quote out of context to prove one thing only, you're a liar. Your agenda is obvious, only fools - like you - believes you're being slick; sadly you're not the only fool to play this childish game.

The elimination of guns from our environment isn't practical or desirable; men and women have a need for guns to protect themselves in their home or business and to enjoy in shooting sports; the gun culture, however, is dominated by fools, cowards and liars who who preach hate and fear and business interests like the NRA, gun makers and those who make accouterments.

 

[Avatar4321]

The best way for progressives to keep guns out of the hands of criminals would be to not buy them. Just saying

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The best way for progressives to keep guns out of the hands of criminals would be to not buy them. Just saying

Just saying? Just don't bother, that's what it's worth.

 

[boilermaker55]

Sure, that is all they do. They want the laws as status quo, yet they seem to not like the violence in America. However, the have no ideas to change the path at all.

Rabbi(t) doesn't propose anything, he's basically a whiner; in thousands of posts, he has never had a sagacious moment or shown any interest in thinking outside the box of the current conservative dogma.

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi(t) doesn't propose anything, he's basically a whiner; in thousands of posts, he has never had a sagacious moment or shown any interest in thinking outside the box of the current conservative dogma.

hmm. lemme check.
Nope, still not answering hte question as to which gun laws do you think will reduce or eliminate gun violence.

The only law which will eliminate gun violence, you jerk, is to eliminate guns from the environment.

That is exactly what you wanted read, and thus you will claim victory and will take this quote out of context to prove one thing only, you're a liar. Your agenda is obvious, only fools - like you - believes you're being slick; sadly you're not the only fool to play this childish game.

The elimination of guns from our environment isn't practical or desirable; men and women have a need for guns to protect themselves in their home or business and to enjoy in shooting sports; the gun culture, however, is dominated by fools, cowards and liars who who preach hate and fear and business interests like the NRA, gun makers and those who make accouterments.

OK, so you agree there is no practical law or policy that will reduce or eliminate gun violence. At least we agree on that, although it was like pulling teeth.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Rabbi(t) doesn't propose anything, he's basically a whiner; in thousands of posts, he has never had a sagacious moment or shown any interest in thinking outside the box of the current conservative dogma.

hmm. lemme check.
Nope, still not answering hte question as to which gun laws do you think will reduce or eliminate gun violence.

The only law which will eliminate gun violence, you jerk, is to eliminate guns from the environment.

That is exactly what you wanted read, and thus you will claim victory and will take this quote out of context to prove one thing only, you're a liar. Your agenda is obvious, only fools - like you - believes you're being slick; sadly you're not the only fool to play this childish game.

The elimination of guns from our environment isn't practical or desirable; men and women have a need for guns to protect themselves in their home or business and to enjoy in shooting sports; the gun culture, however, is dominated by fools, cowards and liars who who preach hate and fear and business interests like the NRA, gun makers and those who make accouterments.

OK, so you agree there is no practical law or policy that will reduce or eliminate gun violence. At least we agree on that, although it was like pulling teeth.

You're dishonest, and maybe the most dishonest jerk who posts on this message board. Or, maybe you're just stupid. I haven't ruled that out.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Rabbi(t) doesn't propose anything, he's basically a whiner; in thousands of posts, he has never had a sagacious moment or shown any interest in thinking outside the box of the current conservative dogma.

hmm. lemme check.
Nope, still not answering hte question as to which gun laws do you think will reduce or eliminate gun violence.

The only law which will eliminate gun violence, you jerk, is to eliminate guns from the environment.

That is exactly what you wanted read, and thus you will claim victory and will take this quote out of context to prove one thing only, you're a liar. Your agenda is obvious, only fools - like you - believes you're being slick; sadly you're not the only fool to play this childish game.

The elimination of guns from our environment isn't practical or desirable; men and women have a need for guns to protect themselves in their home or business and to enjoy in shooting sports; the gun culture, however, is dominated by fools, cowards and liars who who preach hate and fear and business interests like the NRA, gun makers and those who make accouterments.

How well did gun prohibition work against the IRA?

 

[kaz]

We all have different life experiences, mine maybe unique. But most Chief's of Police support gun control - at least those who are employed in the civilized parts of our nation.

Ignoring that your statement they support "gun control" is 50K foot hand waving, what conclusion do we draw from that? Cops do not have the same interest as citizens. Cops are interested in defending the cops. That citizens should not be able to defend themselves because government employees support gun control is a ridiculous argument.

 

[kaz]

Rabbi(t) doesn't propose anything, he's basically a whiner; in thousands of posts, he has never had a sagacious moment or shown any interest in thinking outside the box of the current conservative dogma.

hmm. lemme check.
Nope, still not answering hte question as to which gun laws do you think will reduce or eliminate gun violence.

The only law which will eliminate gun violence, you jerk, is to eliminate guns from the environment.

That is exactly what you wanted read, and thus you will claim victory and will take this quote out of context to prove one thing only, you're a liar. Your agenda is obvious, only fools - like you - believes you're being slick; sadly you're not the only fool to play this childish game.

The elimination of guns from our environment isn't practical or desirable; men and women have a need for guns to protect themselves in their home or business and to enjoy in shooting sports; the gun culture, however, is dominated by fools, cowards and liars who who preach hate and fear and business interests like the NRA, gun makers and those who make accouterments.

How well did gun prohibition work against the IRA?

Yes, great point

 

[2aguy]

Rabbi(t) doesn't propose anything, he's basically a whiner; in thousands of posts, he has never had a sagacious moment or shown any interest in thinking outside the box of the current conservative dogma.

hmm. lemme check.
Nope, still not answering hte question as to which gun laws do you think will reduce or eliminate gun violence.

The only law which will eliminate gun violence, you jerk, is to eliminate guns from the environment.

That is exactly what you wanted read, and thus you will claim victory and will take this quote out of context to prove one thing only, you're a liar. Your agenda is obvious, only fools - like you - believes you're being slick; sadly you're not the only fool to play this childish game.

The elimination of guns from our environment isn't practical or desirable; men and women have a need for guns to protect themselves in their home or business and to enjoy in shooting sports; the gun culture, however, is dominated by fools, cowards and liars who who preach hate and fear and business interests like the NRA, gun makers and those who make accouterments.

Like they did in France, Canada, Australia, Britain and Belgium.....the places of the most recent muslim terrorist attacks......?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Rabbi(t) doesn't propose anything, he's basically a whiner; in thousands of posts, he has never had a sagacious moment or shown any interest in thinking outside the box of the current conservative dogma.

hmm. lemme check.
Nope, still not answering hte question as to which gun laws do you think will reduce or eliminate gun violence.

The only law which will eliminate gun violence, you jerk, is to eliminate guns from the environment.

That is exactly what you wanted read, and thus you will claim victory and will take this quote out of context to prove one thing only, you're a liar. Your agenda is obvious, only fools - like you - believes you're being slick; sadly you're not the only fool to play this childish game.

The elimination of guns from our environment isn't practical or desirable; men and women have a need for guns to protect themselves in their home or business and to enjoy in shooting sports; the gun culture, however, is dominated by fools, cowards and liars who who preach hate and fear and business interests like the NRA, gun makers and those who make accouterments.

Like they did in France, Canada, Australia, Britain and Belgium.....the places of the most recent muslim terrorist attacks......?

It's like communism to them. No matter how many times it fails, they still insist gun control works if only......

 

[Ernie S.]

Hey Joe, where you going with that gun in your hand?

So you're back to your point wanting to keep guns out of hands of non-criminals to reduce crime. Did you ever come up with a plan to keep guns out of the hands of actual criminals?

Define "criminals". If you mean anyone convicted of a crime, DUI, petty theft, vandalism - in fact any misdemeanor or felony that might work. But is it rational or doable? And, in fact it might not go far enough. Consider those detained as a danger to themselves or others (civil commitments are not criminal) would need to have their Second Amendment Rights infringed (to also include those who spent one night in the drunk tank).

For a rational argument on gun control, we need to keep Kaz and other like him out of the discussion. Suffice it to say, Kaz and the other gun nuts seem to believe this, and only this: Guns are a basic right, any effort or even discussion on gun control needs to be met with one voice, one echo: "Our right cannot be infringed no matter how many innocent lives are taken!"

Here is a link to a vast resource for those who want to have the background to have a knowledgeable, honest and rational debate on guns & gun control.

Mass murder shooting sprees and rampage violence Research roundup Journalist s Resource Research for Reporting from Harvard Shorenstein Center

I do not expect Kaz or any of the willfully ignorant, and those who echo those words in red above to open and consider the link, or any of the vast number of studies annotated.

Your emotionalism is noted but irrelevant. The US Constitution guarantees my right to keep and bear arms. Being convicted of certain crimes can and should infringe that right, just like a DUI conviction will infringe your privilege to drive.

BUT, infringing on my rights because gangbangers in Chicago are killing each other is as stupid as removing your privilege to drive because some idiot in South Bend got drunk and plowed into a bunch of kids at a school bus stop.

LOL, you need to make a rational argument. I made no mention of gangbangers or removing everyone's DL because of the actions of others.

Consider (once again, lol, of course you won't) a middle aged man with no criminal record, who keeps a handgun for protection and one day kills his wife 'cause she burned his toast.

Stuff like that happens, most time there is no warning and thus there is no prior reason to infringe on his Second Amendment Privilege (since you acknowledged being convicted of certain crimes can and should infringe, it must be a privilege).

But comprehensive background checks, done when someone applies for a license to own, possess or ever have in his or her custody and control gun, along with a flash notice suspending such a license whenever the licensee has been arrested or detained civilly, seems a reasonable effort to reduce gun violence.

I don't care what you keep in your home (within reason, no meth labs or fragmentation grenades, for example) or do in your bedroom; I am concerned when assholes, psychotics and others who may have a background making their ownership of a gun problematic, take guns into malls, cars, schools and movie theaters intent on doing harm.

I made a rational argument. Of course, I intended it for rational people. Ever hear of an analogy?

Sure, stuff like that happens. I'm strapped as I sit here and yes, I get pissed over a lot of stuff. I own a bar for Christ sake!

BUT I learned self control at an early age as a result of unpleasant outcomes when I didn't.
I have no problen denying the right to carry a weapon to the deranged and those convicted of violent crimes. The fact that there are crazies out there with guns concerns me also, but I refuse to live in fear because parents absconded on their responsibility to teach the self control mine did.
I carry a gun. I'm relatively sane and I have no felony convictions. The Constitution guarantees my right. The fact that you want to limit that right because you are concerned that some thug will kill someone in a drug deal is insane ludicrous.

I don't want to limit your right, I simply stated if my State had the ability to license gun owners I'd have no problem with that. It simply makes sense. You've made a number of suppositions, erroneously, on matters I don't support and fall back on not a solution, or even an effort to mitigate gun violence in America, by claiming your right. A right I don't support taking away, but one which must have some checks and balances in a diverse society of over 300 million people.

Kind of like voter ID?

 

[Ernie S.]

Amazing how every anti-gun liberal is a gun owner

As you may know I'm retired LE, trained and vetted psychologically.

I wasn't specifically calling you a liar, though I'm not saying I believe you either. I don't know. I'm just saying that it's incredible how virtually every liberal who argues for gun laws is a gun owner. You fit that mold. Some are true, most are not. And in real life, virtually all the liberal gun owners I know say they are against the Democratic party on this. They don't say what you all do, yeah, I love guns, and bring on the regs, baby!

We all have different life experiences, mine maybe unique. But most Chief's of Police support gun control - at least those who are employed in the civilized parts of our nation.

Who believes what isn't an argument. Look dude, my OP question is very clear. What about actually answering it instead of telling us you have guns and who thinks what?

All threads evolve, that said and I've said there is no panacea in keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.

But let's try this analogy:

MADD (Mother's against Drunk Drivers) have had a major impact on drunk driving in America. Not every person cited and convicted of DUI is an alcoholic or a drug addict, and yet these usually sober persons killed and injured innocent people way too often. MADD has helped to educate the legislatures all around the country as to the health dangers of driving under the influence of alcohol and other drugs.

The same is true with those who own, possess or have in their custody and control a gun, the vast majority are not criminals until they misuse their gun. Hiding behind the Second Amendment you and others claim nothing can be done until someone is killed or maimed - I find that to be insane, selfish and callous.

Since legislators are best convinced by arguments framed in campaign donations, I have decided the NRA is a terrorist organization, simply because they dominate the debate in Congress and in State Houses around the nation to put forth their agenda Guns good, gun control bad and if you disagree we will support your opponent.

So you freely admit that you view your intellectual adversaries as terrorists? Why? Can't you defend yourself from them?

 

[Ernie S.]

Eventually a million moms and dads will rise up and say "Enough"! Maybe not today, but eventually sanity will replace insanity, and gun control in some unknown and currently unknowable iteration will prevail.

What is your plan for keeping guns out of the hands of people who don't obey laws?

How will it work?

His ideas won't work....he is another gun grabbing moron.......

Your angry, emotional and childish reactions are clearly proof of my observation that you're not very bright. Anyone who can read in context understands my point made over and over, that is, some form of gun control is necessary, for what we have today is insane.

That is an opinion, moron, not a plan of action. Unless and until men and women of good will come to their senses, we will continue to see the types of events which have become all too common in our country. That type of event is of course a situation where one man (no woman, yet) takes a rapid fire weapon with a large magazine and slaughters innocent men, women and children.

Simpletons suggest everyone of us be armed, and that the mentally ill be denied their freedoms, but their right to guns all of types shall never be infringed, no matter who is harmed. Thus you and the others, the NRA and members of Congress who fail to take action, and allowed the Brady Bill to sunset, are not men or women of good will. The are the loud and callous among us.

OK, let's play.
What form of "gun control" do you believe would keep guns from the hands of criminals?

OK, let's do that. Any person over the age of 12 who commits any felony, misdemeanor or has been civilly committed to a mental hospital as a danger to themselves or others shall have both of their hands removed.

Any more stupid questions Rabbit? How about we excuse those who violate the law of gravity, we don't want to be too harsh.

How about we deny those same people the right to vote?

 

[Ernie S.]

So far, in 329 pages, the argument by those who oppose gun control / gun regulations can be summarized thusly:

• It's my Second Amendment Right!
• Those who would like to see gun controls really want to ban guns entirely;
• Any gun control will lead first to registration, then to confiscation;
• Honest citizens will become criminals;
• Gun control will put honest citizens' lives at risk

Very good.

And your point is....??

My point, best expressed by Renan: "The idea that no solution exists never occurs to them, and in this lies their strength." and, "Our opinions become fixed at the point where we stop thinking."

The solution...stop the media from glorifying mass shooters...don't reveal their names or their photos....anyone who commits a gun crime ....a long prison sentence.....

Problem solved....

Gee, now you are willing to silence the Free Press but not to give an inch on gun control.

In fact I agree with you, in the sense that the press should self censor, and the NRA and its followers should do so too. I hope this is not to abstract for you.

How many gun laws do we need? How many more will it take before you realize that criminals don't obey laws, no matter how many there are?

 

[Ernie S.]

Who is responsible for the death of the child you twit....the person who owns a gun...and never uses it to kill or break the law, or the person who murders his mother, steals a gun and kills the child.....

You want to license someone who didn't do anything wrong.....what sort of dumb ass reasoning is that...you twit....

That wasn't the question, your inability to comprehend the written word is sad. Too often you distort the words of others to support your agenda, you're either disabled or dishonest - I suspect both.

Now, tell me, who is punished more, a person required to obtain a license to own, possess or have in their custody and control a gun, or a parent who sends his 6 yo to school where the child is slaughtered by gunfire?

The answer is obvious, but you would seek to punish, in advance, 300,000,000 potential legal gun owners that have done nothing other than desire to exercise a right expressly guaranteed by the US Constitution.

Would you be OK with a literacy/civics test to qualify for the right to vote?

 

[Lakhota]

So far, in 329 pages, the argument by those who oppose gun control / gun regulations can be summarized thusly:

• It's my Second Amendment Right!
• Those who would like to see gun controls really want to ban guns entirely;
• Any gun control will lead first to registration, then to confiscation;
• Honest citizens will become criminals;
• Gun control will put honest citizens' lives at risk

Very good.

And your point is....??

My point, best expressed by Renan: "The idea that no solution exists never occurs to them, and in this lies their strength." and, "Our opinions become fixed at the point where we stop thinking."

The solution...stop the media from glorifying mass shooters...don't reveal their names or their photos....anyone who commits a gun crime ....a long prison sentence.....

Problem solved....

Gee, now you are willing to silence the Free Press but not to give an inch on gun control.

In fact I agree with you, in the sense that the press should self censor, and the NRA and its followers should do so too. I hope this is not to abstract for you.

How many gun laws do we need? How many more will it take before you realize that criminals don't obey laws, no matter how many there are?

That's exactly why we should abolish speed limits.