Kalifornistan Nazi

[RDD_1210]

The healthcare bill is a form of slavery? Ha! This woman obviously "knows her rights". LMAO.

Hey! What do you know! Another liberal who didn't read the healthcare bill!

And show me the part of the bill that even remotely makes the healthcare bill into slavery.

What do you do for a living? And what is the highest level of education you completed?

 

[teapartysamurai]

I chose this part because this was the first time I've heard this argument used against the healthcare bill and I found it quite amusing.

I found it quite accurate.


Slavery is accurate. Because when the government has the power to decide your healthcare, effectively whether you live or die, they have enslaved you to the state.

HAHA! Here we go again. Show me which part of the bill that the government will be making decisions on whether someone lives or dies. Just link me to the page.

Try reading Animal Farm sometime.

Try reading the Health Care bill sometime.

Honey! Do you get it! When the government decides on your healthcare they DO have the power of life and death over you.

ObamaCare’s Rationing Blueprint: Associated Press and Left Wing Bloggers Complete the Circle - Big Government

Obamacare: The Government's rationing toolbox exposed

The FDA attempt to de-label Avastin for breast cancer patients is the first skirmish of the rationing wars. The battle must be fought and won. This isn’t an issue of government paying the cost of these late stage drugs. This is an issue of the government manipulating data to deny care to late stage cancer patients—even those with private insurance.

The issue at hand is whether or not the drug Avastin should be used to treat late stage terminal cancer patients. The FDA is seeking to de-label Avastin for breast cancer patients. Labeling is the FDA’s method of approval for using certain drugs for certain illnesses. Like Medicare, private insurance companies use these labels to determine whether or not they will cover the use of that drug to treat a certain illness.

Fair enough, right? But what’s particularly scurrilous about the FDA’s attempted actions with Avastin is not that they are attempting to de-label it for use with late stage breast cancer patients its how and why they are doing it.

Standard practice for evaluating drugs is to use data-driven objective endpoints to evaluate effectiveness and safety. In the case of Avastin, the FDA has arbitrarily and unilaterally stopped using this objective criterion and are applying a highly subjective criterion of “clinically meaningful”—to cut costs.

No one disputes that the drug helps extends life for terminal patients. The FDA is arguing that it just doesn’t do it for long enough to be worth the cost. So now the FDA is deciding how much life is “meaningful” and what it is worth? This should be a decision for patients, doctors and family members and the FDA should not be replacing their own value judgments about how much time is ‘meaningful’. While six months might not be significant to a statistician or a bureaucrat, for the families of a loved one or a dying patient, it’s a lifetime.


As tragic as it is for breast cancer patients today, this arbitrary shift is a preview of one of the tools in the government health care rationing toolbox. The government is not just saying outright that they won’t cover the cost of this, they are hiding their financial decisions behind language like “clinically meaningful” to lead people to believe the drug doesn’t work. The Avantis case is setting the precedent for the government to arbitrarily deny coverage to millions of American’s based on cost alone.

ObamaCare: The Government?s Rationing Toolbox Exposed - Big Government

My sister is a breast cancer survivor.

WITHOUT THESE DRUGS THEIR CHANCES OF SURVIVAL GO DOWN!!!!!!!!

She's lived for more than five years now.

My father died of cancer. Medications helped his survival go from three weeks to FOUR MONTHS.

That's called RATIONING. That's called the government deciding life and death OVER YOU!

This is EXACTLY what we warned about Obamacare and it's ALREADY COMING TO FRUITION.

Now try your BS.

 

[teapartysamurai]

The healthcare bill is a form of slavery? Ha! This woman obviously "knows her rights". LMAO.

Hey! What do you know! Another liberal who didn't read the healthcare bill!

And show me the part of the bill that even remotely makes the healthcare bill into slavery.

What do you do for a living? And what is the highest level of education you completed?

As I said. When the government decides whether you live or die, you are enslaved.

The issue at hand is whether or not the drug Avastin should be used to treat late stage terminal cancer patients. The FDA is seeking to de-label Avastin for breast cancer patients. Labeling is the FDA’s method of approval for using certain drugs for certain illnesses. Like Medicare, private insurance companies use these labels to determine whether or not they will cover the use of that drug to treat a certain illness.
Fair enough, right? But what’s particularly scurrilous about the FDA’s attempted actions with Avastin is not that they are attempting to de-label it for use with late stage breast cancer patients its how and why they are doing it.

Standard practice for evaluating drugs is to use data-driven objective endpoints to evaluate effectiveness and safety. In the case of Avastin, the FDA has arbitrarily and unilaterally stopped using this objective criterion and are applying a highly subjective criterion of “clinically meaningful”—to cut costs.

No one disputes that the drug helps extends life for terminal patients. The FDA is arguing that it just doesn’t do it for long enough to be worth the cost. So now the FDA is deciding how much life is “meaningful” and what it is worth? This should be a decision for patients, doctors and family members and the FDA should not be replacing their own value judgments about how much time is ‘meaningful’. While six months might not be significant to a statistician or a bureaucrat, for the families of a loved one or a dying patient, it’s a lifetime.


As tragic as it is for breast cancer patients today, this arbitrary shift is a preview of one of the tools in the government health care rationing toolbox. The government is not just saying outright that they won’t cover the cost of this, they are hiding their financial decisions behind language like “clinically meaningful” to lead people to believe the drug doesn’t work. The Avantis case is setting the precedent for the government to arbitrarily deny coverage to millions of American’s based on cost alone.

This battle will be repeated time and time again over the next few years. Life extending drugs for the sick and elderly will be made harder to obtain in order to limit the costs of health care. Treatments to extend life will be denied over and over — if we let them.

ObamaCare: The Government?s Rationing Toolbox Exposed - Big Government

That's called RATIONING in the interests of costs and deciding life and death BASED ON COST.

That's also called "just give 'em a pain pill" in Obama speak.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo"]YouTube - Obama to Jane Sturm: Hey, take a pill[/ame]

 

[teapartysamurai]

Notice what liberals do NOT want to talk about in this thread.

That Dems think the federal government can do anything?

 

[RDD_1210]

I found it quite accurate.


Slavery is accurate. Because when the government has the power to decide your healthcare, effectively whether you live or die, they have enslaved you to the state.

HAHA! Here we go again. Show me which part of the bill that the government will be making decisions on whether someone lives or dies. Just link me to the page.



Try reading the Health Care bill sometime.

Honey! Do you get it! When the government decides on your healthcare they DO have the power of life and death over you.

ObamaCare’s Rationing Blueprint: Associated Press and Left Wing Bloggers Complete the Circle - Big Government

Obamacare: The Government's rationing toolbox exposed

The FDA attempt to de-label Avastin for breast cancer patients is the first skirmish of the rationing wars. The battle must be fought and won. This isn’t an issue of government paying the cost of these late stage drugs. This is an issue of the government manipulating data to deny care to late stage cancer patients—even those with private insurance.

The issue at hand is whether or not the drug Avastin should be used to treat late stage terminal cancer patients. The FDA is seeking to de-label Avastin for breast cancer patients. Labeling is the FDA’s method of approval for using certain drugs for certain illnesses. Like Medicare, private insurance companies use these labels to determine whether or not they will cover the use of that drug to treat a certain illness.

Fair enough, right? But what’s particularly scurrilous about the FDA’s attempted actions with Avastin is not that they are attempting to de-label it for use with late stage breast cancer patients its how and why they are doing it.

Standard practice for evaluating drugs is to use data-driven objective endpoints to evaluate effectiveness and safety. In the case of Avastin, the FDA has arbitrarily and unilaterally stopped using this objective criterion and are applying a highly subjective criterion of “clinically meaningful”—to cut costs.

No one disputes that the drug helps extends life for terminal patients. The FDA is arguing that it just doesn’t do it for long enough to be worth the cost. So now the FDA is deciding how much life is “meaningful” and what it is worth? This should be a decision for patients, doctors and family members and the FDA should not be replacing their own value judgments about how much time is ‘meaningful’. While six months might not be significant to a statistician or a bureaucrat, for the families of a loved one or a dying patient, it’s a lifetime.


As tragic as it is for breast cancer patients today, this arbitrary shift is a preview of one of the tools in the government health care rationing toolbox. The government is not just saying outright that they won’t cover the cost of this, they are hiding their financial decisions behind language like “clinically meaningful” to lead people to believe the drug doesn’t work. The Avantis case is setting the precedent for the government to arbitrarily deny coverage to millions of American’s based on cost alone.

ObamaCare: The Government?s Rationing Toolbox Exposed - Big Government

My sister is a breast cancer survivor.

WITHOUT THESE DRUGS THEIR CHANCES OF SURVIVAL GO DOWN!!!!!!!!

She's lived for more than five years now.

My father died of cancer. Medications helped his survival go from three weeks to FOUR MONTHS.

That's called RATIONING. That's called the government deciding life and death OVER YOU!

This is EXACTLY what we warned about Obamacare and it's ALREADY COMING TO FRUITION.

Now try your BS.

THIS??? THIS is your proof??? You already made a thread about this and were shot down by multiple people. So the FDA wanting to prevent the use of a drug from being used for something it isn't indicated for is Obama rationing healthcare? I thought you were going to present a legitimate point.

I guess I should have known better then to expect more from you.

 

[teapartysamurai]

HAHA! Here we go again. Show me which part of the bill that the government will be making decisions on whether someone lives or dies. Just link me to the page.



Try reading the Health Care bill sometime.

Honey! Do you get it! When the government decides on your healthcare they DO have the power of life and death over you.

ObamaCare’s Rationing Blueprint: Associated Press and Left Wing Bloggers Complete the Circle - Big Government

Obamacare: The Government's rationing toolbox exposed

The FDA attempt to de-label Avastin for breast cancer patients is the first skirmish of the rationing wars. The battle must be fought and won. This isn’t an issue of government paying the cost of these late stage drugs. This is an issue of the government manipulating data to deny care to late stage cancer patients—even those with private insurance.

The issue at hand is whether or not the drug Avastin should be used to treat late stage terminal cancer patients. The FDA is seeking to de-label Avastin for breast cancer patients. Labeling is the FDA’s method of approval for using certain drugs for certain illnesses. Like Medicare, private insurance companies use these labels to determine whether or not they will cover the use of that drug to treat a certain illness.

Fair enough, right? But what’s particularly scurrilous about the FDA’s attempted actions with Avastin is not that they are attempting to de-label it for use with late stage breast cancer patients its how and why they are doing it.

Standard practice for evaluating drugs is to use data-driven objective endpoints to evaluate effectiveness and safety. In the case of Avastin, the FDA has arbitrarily and unilaterally stopped using this objective criterion and are applying a highly subjective criterion of “clinically meaningful”—to cut costs.

No one disputes that the drug helps extends life for terminal patients. The FDA is arguing that it just doesn’t do it for long enough to be worth the cost. So now the FDA is deciding how much life is “meaningful” and what it is worth? This should be a decision for patients, doctors and family members and the FDA should not be replacing their own value judgments about how much time is ‘meaningful’. While six months might not be significant to a statistician or a bureaucrat, for the families of a loved one or a dying patient, it’s a lifetime.


As tragic as it is for breast cancer patients today, this arbitrary shift is a preview of one of the tools in the government health care rationing toolbox. The government is not just saying outright that they won’t cover the cost of this, they are hiding their financial decisions behind language like “clinically meaningful” to lead people to believe the drug doesn’t work. The Avantis case is setting the precedent for the government to arbitrarily deny coverage to millions of American’s based on cost alone.

ObamaCare: The Government?s Rationing Toolbox Exposed - Big Government

My sister is a breast cancer survivor.

WITHOUT THESE DRUGS THEIR CHANCES OF SURVIVAL GO DOWN!!!!!!!!

She's lived for more than five years now.

My father died of cancer. Medications helped his survival go from three weeks to FOUR MONTHS.

That's called RATIONING. That's called the government deciding life and death OVER YOU!

This is EXACTLY what we warned about Obamacare and it's ALREADY COMING TO FRUITION.

Now try your BS.

THIS??? THIS is your proof??? You already made a thread about this and were shot down by multiple people. So the FDA wanting to prevent the use of a drug from being used for something it isn't indicated for is Obama rationing healthcare? I thought you were going to present a legitimate point.

I guess I should have known better then to expect more from you.

Show down?

How in the world is it NOT rationing when the FDA renames it in the name of cost and NOT leaving the decision to the doctor???????

And for what IT ISN'T INDICATED??????

Where is it NOT indicated for breast cancer patients???????

So, you are a medical doctor and know this???????

And like I still say. NOTICE THE LAST THING THIS GUY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IS THE ARROGANCE OF DEMOCRATS WHO THINK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN DO ANYTHING!

 

[RDD_1210]

Notice what liberals do NOT want to talk about in this thread.

That Dems think the federal government can do anything?

Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that you're "mooching" off the government more then you'd admit.

 

[teapartysamurai]

Notice what liberals do NOT want to talk about in this thread.

That Dems think the federal government can do anything?

Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that you're "mooching" off the government more then you'd admit.

BWAAHAHHAAAA!

Thank you for admitting you lost the debate. When you have to change the subject to completely about me, you are desperately trying to change the subject and put your opponent on the defensive.

That was pretty desperate and pathetic on your part.

BTW, it also shows the arrogance of liberals.

Let's just take your argument to it's (again) most illogical conclusion.

What if I were leeching off the government (which I'm not). SO THAT MEANS I DON'T DARE CRITICIZE THAT GOVERNMENT.

I somehow owe them my allegiance and must keep my mouth shut?

DO YOU HEAR THIS ARROGANCE EVERYONE!!!!!

And with that attitude you are the one claiming the government doesn't want to make us SLAVES?????????

Oh pal you lost big time.

That's what happens when you bring a knife to a gun fight!

 

[RDD_1210]

Honey! Do you get it! When the government decides on your healthcare they DO have the power of life and death over you.

ObamaCare’s Rationing Blueprint: Associated Press and Left Wing Bloggers Complete the Circle - Big Government



ObamaCare: The Government?s Rationing Toolbox Exposed - Big Government

My sister is a breast cancer survivor.

WITHOUT THESE DRUGS THEIR CHANCES OF SURVIVAL GO DOWN!!!!!!!!

She's lived for more than five years now.

My father died of cancer. Medications helped his survival go from three weeks to FOUR MONTHS.

That's called RATIONING. That's called the government deciding life and death OVER YOU!

This is EXACTLY what we warned about Obamacare and it's ALREADY COMING TO FRUITION.

Now try your BS.

THIS??? THIS is your proof??? You already made a thread about this and were shot down by multiple people. So the FDA wanting to prevent the use of a drug from being used for something it isn't indicated for is Obama rationing healthcare? I thought you were going to present a legitimate point.

I guess I should have known better then to expect more from you.

Show down?

How in the world is it NOT rationing when the FDA renames it in the name of cost and NOT leaving the decision to the doctor???????

And for what IT ISN'T INDICATED??????

Where is it NOT indicated for breast cancer patients???????

So, you are a medical doctor and know this???????

And like I still say. NOTICE THE LAST THING THIS GUY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IS THE ARROGANCE OF DEMOCRATS WHO THINK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN DO ANYTHING!

I ask for proof in the healthcare bill that you claim to shows slavery and you post something from the FDA that has nothing to do with the healthcare bill. Talk about answering the way you want and ignoring the question. LOL.

You can make all the wild connections you want but reality is that you have no proof and are probably just a hysterical, unemployed, uneducated redneck with nothing better to do then bash the government all day and act as if something is being taken from you. Cry me a river.

 

[teapartysamurai]

BTW. you're wonderful liberals you support disagree with you that this healthcare isn't rationing.

Why We Must Ration Health Care

By PETER SINGER
Published: July 15, 2009
You have advanced kidney cancer. It will kill you, probably in the next year or two. A drug called Sutent slows the spread of the cancer and may give you an extra six months, but at a cost of $54,000. Is a few more months worth that much?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/magazine/19healthcare-t.html

Commentary

Rationing Health Care

Scott W. Atlas, 07.21.09, 02:45 PM EDT
It's the only way the government can lower health care costs.

Rationing Health Care - Forbes.com

Not only do they KNOW it's government rationing healthcare, they are all for it.

And THAT is slavery.

 

[topspin]

you klansman didn't mind when Bush thought he could go unchecked.

 

[RDD_1210]

Notice what liberals do NOT want to talk about in this thread.

That Dems think the federal government can do anything?

Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that you're "mooching" off the government more then you'd admit.

BWAAHAHHAAAA!

Thank you for admitting you lost the debate. When you have to change the subject to completely about me, you are desperately trying to change the subject and put your opponent on the defensive.

That was pretty desperate and pathetic on your part.

BTW, it also shows the arrogance of liberals.

Let's just take your argument to it's (again) most illogical conclusion.

What if I were leeching off the government (which I'm not). SO THAT MEANS I DON'T DARE CRITICIZE THAT GOVERNMENT.

I somehow owe them my allegiance and must keep my mouth shut?

DO YOU HEAR THIS ARROGANCE EVERYONE!!!!!

And with that attitude you are the one claiming the government doesn't want to make us SLAVES?????????

Oh pal you lost big time.

That's what happens when you bring a knife to a gun fight!

Yes everyone, come look at my arrogance! LOL. Listen to yourself. You're pathetic. You honestly believe your own government hates you and wants to kill you. Get a grip on reality.

 

[teapartysamurai]

THIS??? THIS is your proof??? You already made a thread about this and were shot down by multiple people. So the FDA wanting to prevent the use of a drug from being used for something it isn't indicated for is Obama rationing healthcare? I thought you were going to present a legitimate point.

I guess I should have known better then to expect more from you.

Show down?

How in the world is it NOT rationing when the FDA renames it in the name of cost and NOT leaving the decision to the doctor???????

And for what IT ISN'T INDICATED??????

Where is it NOT indicated for breast cancer patients???????

So, you are a medical doctor and know this???????

And like I still say. NOTICE THE LAST THING THIS GUY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IS THE ARROGANCE OF DEMOCRATS WHO THINK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN DO ANYTHING!

I ask for proof in the healthcare bill that you claim to shows slavery and you post something from the FDA that has nothing to do with the healthcare bill. Talk about answering the way you want and ignoring the question. LOL.

You can make all the wild connections you want but reality is that you have no proof and are probably just a hysterical, unemployed, uneducated redneck with nothing better to do then bash the government all day and act as if something is being taken from you. Cry me a river.

Look you lost, deal with it!

Now you are playing the "well you can't win, until you convince ME, THE ALL KNOWING LIBERAL!!!!!!"

While you jump on one foot, stick your fingers in your ears, and yell OBAMA IS WISE, OBAMA IS GREAT, OBAMA IS THE MESSIAH!!!!!"

It's pretty obvious, I proved my argument. The fact you can't accept that says way more about you!

Health care rationing Obama believes in

Rationing Health Care - Forbes.com

Aged-Based Health Care Rationing

By Claire Andre and Manuel Velasquez
Challenges for an Aging Society

I hate the men who would prolong their lives
By foods and drinks and charms of magic art
Perverting nature's course to keep off death
They ought, when they no longer serve the land
To quit this life, and clear the way for youth.
-Euripides 500 B.C.

​

Has the time come when we decide that prolonging the lives of the elderly who "no longer serve the land" is truly a burden on the youth of society? Is the day of rationing our nation's health care services on the basis of age close at hand? As the ranks of the elderly swell, and demands on the nation's scarce health care resources increase, the once whispered suggestions that health care should be rationed by age are now growing audible.

Aged-Based Health Care Rationing

 

[teapartysamurai]

Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that you're "mooching" off the government more then you'd admit.

BWAAHAHHAAAA!

Thank you for admitting you lost the debate. When you have to change the subject to completely about me, you are desperately trying to change the subject and put your opponent on the defensive.

That was pretty desperate and pathetic on your part.

BTW, it also shows the arrogance of liberals.

Let's just take your argument to it's (again) most illogical conclusion.

What if I were leeching off the government (which I'm not). SO THAT MEANS I DON'T DARE CRITICIZE THAT GOVERNMENT.

I somehow owe them my allegiance and must keep my mouth shut?

DO YOU HEAR THIS ARROGANCE EVERYONE!!!!!

And with that attitude you are the one claiming the government doesn't want to make us SLAVES?????????

Oh pal you lost big time.

That's what happens when you bring a knife to a gun fight!

Yes everyone, come look at my arrogance! LOL. Listen to yourself. You're pathetic. You honestly believe your own government hates you and wants to kill you. Get a grip on reality.

Now you are left with nothing but baseless ranting!

Thank you, you can leave the debate now!

 

[teapartysamurai]

you klansman didn't mind when Bush thought he could go unchecked.

Yeah, that must explain why we opposed him on illegal immigrant amnesty and the first stimulus.

BTW, the Klan was an arm of the DEMOCRAT PARTY. You know that party that just said the federal government can do what it wants.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

you klansman didn't mind when Bush thought he could go unchecked.

Yeah, that must explain why we opposed him on illegal immigrant amnesty and the first stimulus.

BTW, the Klan was an arm of the DEMOCRAT PARTY. You know that party that just said the federal government can do what it wants.

Oh God.. Topsoil and the "klansman" B.S. That guy's a true mental midget. All the intellect of a housefly.. and just as annoying.

 

[Avatar4321]

It can? News to me. It seems they have issues just delivering the mail let alone anything else.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

you klansman didn't mind when Bush thought he could go unchecked.

Yeah, that must explain why we opposed him on illegal immigrant amnesty and the first stimulus.

BTW, the Klan was an arm of the DEMOCRAT PARTY. You know that party that just said the federal government can do what it wants.

Oops.

 

[topspin]

lots of racist like soggy in Nawlins, no shocker he is

Bringing up the ancient history of Klan in the dem party is a current Klan/repuliKlan talking point. You exposed yourself grand wizard.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

lots of racist like soggy in Nawlins, no shocker he is

Bringing up the ancient history of Klan in the dem party is a current Klan/repuliKlan talking point. You exposed yourself grand wizard.

You sure are the one trick pony.... "Racist" or "Klansman". Always some inane race baiting.

One imaginative little boy you are!