Justice Gorsuch Lays Waste to the Biden Administration's Argument for Jail Sentences

[Billiejeens]

The majority of Supreme Court justices appeared skeptical during oral arguments Tuesday of the Biden Justice Department’s use of a federal obstruction statute in prosecuting over 300 Jan. 6 defendants.

The outcome of the case involving defendant Joseph Fischer could have major implications for former President Donald Trump’s election interference case brought by special counsel Jack Smith. The 45th president is charged under the same law, 18 U.S. Code 1512(c)(2), which has to do with the destruction of documents.

 

[Marener]

18 USC 1512c1 deals with destruction of documents
18 USC 1512c2 deals with obstructing official proceedings.

 

[Billiejeens]

The legal provision in question was enacted as part of the 2002 Sarbanes-Oxley Act, a bill passed following the Enron accounting scandal.

The Act adopts tough new provisions to deter and punish corporate and accounting fraud and corruption, ensure justice for wrongdoers, and protect the interests of workers and shareholders,” then-President George W. Bush said in a statement at the time.

Fischer and the other defendants are arguing that Sarbanes-Oxley has nothing to do with their actions on Jan. 6, 2021.

U.S. District Judge Carl Nichols dismissed the 1512(c)(2) charges against Fischer in March 2022.

Nichols concluded that the statute has to do with the destruction of documents or records in order to impede an official proceeding, as Section 1 makes clear. Since the DOJ did not accuse Fischer of taking such action, the statute did not apply.

 

[kyzr]

Did the Congressman pull the fire alarm while participating in a violent riot? Was he subverting the non violent transfer of power? What other crimes was he charged with in conjunction with errantly pulling the fire alarm? Didn't he plea guilty?

The alarm forced the evacuation of a House office building for over an hour on Sept. 30. The New York lawmaker acknowledged pulling the alarm but said it was a mistake as he tried to open an unexpectedly locked door in a rush to get to vote. The funding package was ultimately approved with most Republicans and almost all Democrats, including Bowman, supporting the bill.

“I really regret that this caused so much confusion and that people had to evacuate, and I just caused a disturbance. I hate that. It’s pretty embarrassing,” Bowman told reporters after his plea hearing.Sad that the SC would stoop to such a specious argument to protect the Benedict Donald.

Jaamal pulled the fire alarm to stop an official proceeding, just like the J6 rioters.
If he was Republican he'd be looking at 20-years.
The charge that we're discussing is "obstruction".
His excuse is total bullshit, there were signs on the door.
The double-standard is obvious. The USSC needs to straighten the democrat's partisan mess out.

 

[Billiejeens]

Jaamal pulled the fire alarm to stop an official proceeding, just like the J6 rioters.
If he was Republican he'd be looking at 20-years.
The charge that we're discussing is "obstruction".
His excuse is total bullshit, there were signs on the door.
The double-standard is obvious. The USSC needs to straighten the democrat's partisan mess out.

Unfortunately that is not really their job.

 

[BlindBoo]

Jaamal pulled the fire alarm to stop an official proceeding, just like the J6 rioters.
If he was Republican he'd be looking at 20-years.
The charge that we're discussing is "obstruction".
His excuse is total bullshit, there were signs on the door.
The double-standard is obvious. The USSC needs to straighten the democrat's partisan mess out.

If the rioters had only pulled a fire alarm and not beaten the shit out of those Capitol Police perhaps they too would have deserved a slap on the wrist. But that didn't happen did it?

 

[kyzr]

If the rioters had only pulled a fire alarm and not beaten the shit out of those Capitol Police perhaps they too would have deserved a slap on the wrist. But that didn't happen did it?

Agreed. The USSC looks like they want to level the double-standard from what it is now.
If the BLM rioters got similar sentences to the J6 rioters I wouldn't be as wound up, but they weren't even prosecuted.

 

[bendog]

The Supreme Court heard arguments in the Fischer v. United States case, which related to whether the DC Court of Appeals “erred in construing 18 U.S.C. § 1512 obstruction of congressional inquiries and investigations, to include acts unrelated to investigations and evidence,” according to SCOTUSblog. This criminal statute was slapped against hundreds of January 6 defendants, many serving years behind bars.

During oral arguments, Justice Neil Gorsuch poked holes in the Biden Justice Department’s case, listing four instances of “obstructing a Congressional proceeding,” mentioning Rep. Jamaal Bowman’s (D-NY) fire alarm stunt last year:

The best part is when the Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar said they would need evidence of intent in these circumstances.

“Oh, they intend to do it alright,” replied Gorsuch.

In March, a federal appeals court ruled that up to 100 January 6 defendants might have had their jail sentences improperly enhanced.

Bj - I listened to some of the proceedings all of this selective J6 persecution will be overturned 6-3 (5-4 at the worst)
Selective prosecution just scratches the surface of this injustice.

Justice Gorsuch Lays Waste to the Biden Administration's Argument for Jail Sentences

townhall.com

Gosuch claims to be a textual originalist - that is, the meaning of a law has to be determined by the TEXT. Where does the text limit this crime to not apply to trying to stop submitting certified slates of electors?

(c)Whoever corruptly—
(2)
otherwise obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so,

--​

Personally I think Gosuch is right on this, but the only way he can get there is by not being a textual originalist and goes full out hypocrite.

 

[BlindBoo]

Agreed. The USSC looks like they want to level the double-standard from what it is now.
If the BLM rioters got similar sentences to the J6 rioters I wouldn't be as wound up, but they weren't even prosecuted.

View attachment 933400

I like how you pretend Democrats didn't condemn the riots in 2020, or that Republican have tried to minimize the Capitol riots. Not to mention the fact that Benedict Donald calls the violent convicts hostages as part of his campaign spiel.....

 

[berg80]

The legal system as directed by The Constitution will prevail.

As I thought, you have no idea that this case comes down to the interpretation of the word "otherwise" in the statute, not the Constitution.

United States v. Fischer, 64 F.4th 329 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read United States v. Fischer, 64 F.4th 329, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

I don't know why I bother trying to educate you. It's like talking to a doorknob.

 

[kyzr]

I like how you pretend Democrats didn't condemn the riots in 2020, or that Republican have tried to minimize the Capitol riots. Not to mention the fact that Benedict Donald calls the violent convicts hostages as part of his campaign spiel.....

We can both agree that the J6 riot was a serious crime and should not have happened. That said, we don't know how much of that riot was setup by the FBI. Who was the guy on video setting pipe bombs? Trump wanted the National Guard there to keep the peace, so did Police Chief Sund, both requests were denied. The J6 rioters have harsh sentences, the BLM rioters have no sentences.

The sentences these goobers got were unfair.

 

[BlindBoo]

We can both agree that the J6 riot was a serious crime and should not have happened. That said, we don't know how much of that riot was setup by the FBI. Who was the guy on video setting pipe bombs? Trump wanted the National Guard there to keep the peace, so did Police Chief Sund, both requests were denied. The J6 rioters have harsh sentences, the BLM rioters have no sentences.

View attachment 933414 The sentences these goobers got were unfair.

If Benedict Donald wanted the NG he could have ordered it at any time. He was the CiC.

 

[Billiejeens]

As I thought, you have no idea that this case comes down to the interpretation of the word "otherwise" in the statute, not the Constitution.

United States v. Fischer, 64 F.4th 329 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read United States v. Fischer, 64 F.4th 329, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

I don't know why I bother trying to educate you. It's like talking to a doorknob.

Stop bothering.

 

[Billiejeens]

If Benedict Donald wanted the NG he could have ordered it at any time. He was the CiC.

This has already been settled.
You don't know what you are talking about.

 

[bendog]

I like how you pretend Democrats didn't condemn the riots in 2020, or that Republican have tried to minimize the Capitol riots. Not to mention the fact that Benedict Donald calls the violent convicts hostages as part of his campaign spiel.....

Did the BLM idiots commit federal offenses (and please, not the Portland nonsense of idiots attacking buildings, some of which may have been federal) to shut down officials doing their jobs?

Destroying property bad, but apple and orange comparisons also bad. lol

 

[BlindBoo]

This has already been settled.
You don't know what you are talking about.

True, Benedict Donald never ordered the NG to the Capitol. He gleefully watched the attack on TV for hours while ignoring the GOP's pleas for him to call off his attack dogs.

 

[kyzr]

If Benedict Donald wanted the NG he could have ordered it at any time. He was the CiC.

Apparently not. At a meeting J4, Trump, SECDEF Miller, Gen. Milley, Kash Patel, Gen. Kellogg, and Mark Meadows requested the NG, Nancy Pelosi (via Sgt at Arms Irving) and DC Mayor Bowser needed to request them, and both refused both requests.

Report: Trump Did Propose 10,000 National Guard Troops on January 6th

One of the long-standing unanswered questions from the January 6th riot has been why the Capitol was so poorly prepared and defended on that day. A newly released transcript has caused a firestorm …

jonathanturley.org

Gen. Kellogg: Trump did request Nat'l Guard troops on Jan. 6th; asks Congress to release his testimony

Retired U.S. Army Gen. Keith Kellogg said President Donald Trump requested National Guard deployments in Washington D.C. before Jan. 6, 2021.

americanmilitarynews.com

 

[WEATHER53]

We can both agree that the J6 riot was a serious crime and should not have happened. That said, we don't know how much of that riot was setup by the FBI. Who was the guy on video setting pipe bombs? Trump wanted the National Guard there to keep the peace, so did Police Chief Sund, both requests were denied. The J6 rioters have harsh sentences, the BLM rioters have no sentences.

View attachment 933414 The sentences these goobers got were unfair.

And those in that picture were going to disband current government and install their own
It’s pure lunacy fantasy

 

[kyzr]

If Benedict Donald wanted the NG he could have ordered it at any time. He was the CiC.

Joe Biden is the traitor.
He let in 100,000 Chinese and 50,000 Russians, not even counting the thousands of garden variety terrorists.

 

[kyzr]

And those in that picture were going to disband current government and install their own
It’s pure lunacy fantasy

Bullshit. They were simple protesters. As soon as the Capitol police reinforcements showed up the riot was over.
If you want to see what a real insurrection looks like here's one from Russia's insurrection: