Just another day in America. Guns keeping people safe... 8 dead... the dead can't be killed, therefore they're safe.

[westwall]

Really?
The ATF had a warrant. They knew they were ATF agents.

If you really want to argue the illegality of a warrant, then you do that in court, not by shooting it out with ATF agents, and then committing mass suicide when you know your cult leader is going to prison.


Uh, yeah, given that this is Utah, we are probably talking Mormon Cultist... so she'd have sat their and taken it.

Have you seen the warrant? I have. Not one item that was listed was illegal in any state of the country.

 

[Captain Caveman]

If you filth would stop letting violent criminals go free...

....but...but...but....but you have the 2nd Amendment, that's what keep people safe and America has the least gun incidents on the planet

 

[westwall]

....but...but...but....but you have the 2nd Amendment, that's what keep people safe and America has the least gun incidents on the planet

When they have them, they do.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Okay, you know you sound like a crazy person most of the time, right?

Have you any faint vestige of a clue how you sound to sane people?

 

[miketx]

....but...but...but....but you have the 2nd Amendment, that's what keep people safe and America has the least gun incidents on the planet

You're succeeding at displaying your stupidity and how much you hate freedom.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

....but...but...but....but you have the 2nd Amendment, that's what keep people safe and America has the least gun incidents on the planet

Irrelevant British subject is irrelevant.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If you filth would stop letting violent criminals go free...

This is a lie.

 

[miketx]

This is a lie.

No, it's been proven over and over traitor.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Utah shooting: A man killed his family after wife filed for divorce

Police found eight people, including five children, dead in a Utah home during a welfare check.

www.bbc.com

"A family of eight - including five children - have been found shot dead inside a rural home in Enoch City, in the US state of Utah."

Well, I guess after Sandy Hook, we know nothing will be done about this.

What conservatives will do is lie about guns being 'banned' and 'confiscated.'

 

[miketx]

What conservatives will do is lie about guns being 'banned' and 'confiscated.'

All the lying is on you traitor.

 

[Ralph Norton]

Or if there was no gun in the house, then no one would have been killed.

Tell that to the 4 students in Idaho.

 

[JoeB131]

You can always tell when a gun massacre has happened when 2AGuy shows up with this NRA Spooge.

 

[JoeB131]

Leftist judges frequently bestow leniency on violent criminals
Do the math

See how that works?

Um, that didn't have anything to do with my point, but never mind.

Have you any faint vestige of a clue how you sound to sane people?

Says the guy who thinks he's wearing Magic Underwear?
Oh, hey I guess 8 people found out Magic Underwear doesn't actually protect you!.

 

[2aguy]

....but...but...but....but you have the 2nd Amendment, that's what keep people safe and America has the least gun incidents on the planet

And you guys banned guns in the 1920s, and by 1939 you began murdering 15 million innocent men, women and children.

Let's look at the total between Europe and the U.S. as far as murder is concerned...


1939-1945..... 6 years. 15 million innocent men, women and children murdered in Europe....after you banned and confiscated guns to make people safer.....murdered by their governments who banned and confiscated guns.

246 years of United States history, the entire history........2,460,000 murdered by guns....with the vast majority of victims criminals murdered by other criminals.

And you can't see the difference......that is what a foolish human being you are....

 

[2aguy]

You can always tell when a gun massacre has happened when 2AGuy shows up with this NRA Spooge.

Please point to any of the information I post that comes from the NRA.....please...we will wait.....

 

[2aguy]

....but...but...but....but you have the 2nd Amendment, that's what keep people safe and America has the least gun incidents on the planet

Lives saved, on average, each year in the U.S. because our people can own and carry guns for self defense....

Lives saved....based on research? By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct


that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—

=============

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)


2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey

Clinton's study by the DOJ....

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. Inclusion of multiple DGUs reported by half of the 19 NSPOF respondents increases the estimate to 4.7 million DGUs.



n the third column of Table 6.2, we apply the Kleck and Gertz (1995) criteria for "genuine" DGUs (type A), leaving us with just 19 respondents. They represent 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known Kleck and Gertz estimate of 2.5 million, shown in the last

While ours is smaller, it is staistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. to the when we include the multiple DGUs victim. defensive reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 milli

While ours is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference petrator; in most cases (69 percent), the is due to sampling error. Note that when we include the multiple DGUs reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 million DGUs.
----

As shown in Table 6.6, the defender fired his or her gun in 27 percent of these incidents (combined "fire warning shots" and "fire at perpetrator" percentages, though some respondents reported firing both warning shots and airning at the perpetrator). Forty percent of these were "warning shots," and about a third were aimed at the perpetrator but missed. The perpetrator was wounded by the crime victim in eight percent of all DGUs. In nine percent of DGUs the victim captured and held the perpetrator at gunpoint until the police could arrive.

Obama's study...

Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence |The National Academies Press

 

[2aguy]

....but...but...but....but you have the 2nd Amendment, that's what keep people safe and America has the least gun incidents on the planet

You idiots banned and confiscated guns......your governments told you it would make you safer....then those governments went on to murder 15 million of you....

Who is the idiot there?

In just 6 years your governments murdered more people in Europe than in the entire 246 year history of gun murder in the U.S....

Tell us again who the idiots really are......

NAZI GENOCIDE AND MASS MURDER



German socialists


By genocide, the murder of hostages, reprisal raids, forced labor, "euthanasia," starvation, exposure, medical experiments, and terror bombing, and in the concentration and death camps, the Nazis murdered from 15,003,000 to 31,595,000 people, most likely 20,946,000 men, women, handicapped, aged, sick, prisoners of war, forced laborers, camp inmates, critics, homosexuals, Jews, Slavs, Serbs, Germans, Czechs, Italians, Poles, French, Ukrainians, and many others. Among them 1,000,000 were children under eighteen years of age.1

And none of these monstrous figures even include civilian and military combat or war-deaths

 

[JoeB131]

You idiots banned and confiscated guns......your governments told you it would make you safer....then those governments went on to murder 15 million of you....

nobody confiscated guns in Europe before WWII. In fact, there were still plenty of guns in private hands after WWI.

Nobody rushed out to defend their neighbor with one of those guns when the Nazis came to take away the Jews.

Just like no one in America rushed out with their guns to defend their Japanese neighbors when they were being rounded up by the US Government in 1942.

Guns don't protect you from tyranny. Because one man's tyranny is another man's "Yup, I can live with that, not my problem."

So the notion that I have to let Awake the Rapper or Joker Holmes have a military grade weapon because, gosh, darn, they might protect me from "tyranny" is just silly.

My guess is that when we find out more about Michael Haight, we are going to find out everyone in his life knew he was nuts, but he was able to get a gun, anyway.

Oh, wait... we are already hearing that.

Enoch City police chief Jackson Ames said his department was "familiar" with the family and had been "involved in some investigations with the family a couple years prior," but did not elaborate on the reason. Ames added that there had been no recent interactions with the family.

Who were the Haights? Police identify victims found in Enoch home

As a community remains in shock following the discovery of eight bodies found inside an Enoch home on Wednesday, officials released the identities of the victims who were members of one family.

www.fox13now.com

 

[Likkmee]

Utah shooting: A man killed his family after wife filed for divorce

Police found eight people, including five children, dead in a Utah home during a welfare check.

www.bbc.com

"A family of eight - including five children - have been found shot dead inside a rural home in Enoch City, in the US state of Utah."

Well, I guess after Sandy Hook, we know nothing will be done about this.

Maybz dem popo meant dey was collectin' a welfay check ?
Shall we assume the 3 adults had no bang bangs ?

 

[2aguy]

nobody confiscated guns in Europe before WWII. In fact, there were still plenty of guns in private hands after WWI.

Nobody rushed out to defend their neighbor with one of those guns when the Nazis came to take away the Jews.

Just like no one in America rushed out with their guns to defend their Japanese neighbors when they were being rounded up by the US Government in 1942.

Guns don't protect you from tyranny. Because one man's tyranny is another man's "Yup, I can live with that, not my problem."

So the notion that I have to let Awake the Rapper or Joker Holmes have a military grade weapon because, gosh, darn, they might protect me from "tyranny" is just silly.

My guess is that when we find out more about Michael Haight, we are going to find out everyone in his life knew he was nuts, but he was able to get a gun, anyway.

Oh, wait... we are already hearing that.

Enoch City police chief Jackson Ames said his department was "familiar" with the family and had been "involved in some investigations with the family a couple years prior," but did not elaborate on the reason. Ames added that there had been no recent interactions with the family.

Who were the Haights? Police identify victims found in Enoch home

As a community remains in shock following the discovery of eight bodies found inside an Enoch home on Wednesday, officials released the identities of the victims who were members of one family.

www.fox13now.com

You just lie...all the time....

France, the Nazis, and Gun Control

In 1935, French prime minister Pierre Laval, who later served in the Vichy government during the Nazis' four-year occupation of France, commanded French citizens to surrender their firearms. Laval and France's ruling parties feared social revolution and banned "war" weapons, instituting strict gun registration policies. They believed that repressive limits on civilian gun ownership were necessary at a time of Depression-sparked unrest and ongoing conflicts among various political factions.

Strict time limits for firearms registration and harsh penalties for noncompliance, including forfeiture, fines, and imprisonment, were put in place.

Laval's government did not foresee the impact these restrictive measures would have on a Nazi-conquered France just five years later, when firearms surrender would be required under threat of death.

In Gun Control in Nazi-Occupied France: Tyranny and Resistance, attorney Stephen P. Halbrook explores the impact and efficacy of gun control measures on Wehrmacht-controlled France and how these measures hindered the French Resistance's fight against Nazi tyranny. The author asserts that Laval's 1935 gun control efforts left the French people vulnerable to the Nazi invaders and ill equipped to deal with the Nazi invasion of 1940, plus simplified the Nazi efforts to confiscate firearms and impede a French resistance.

Time for a History Lesson about Gun Control | Stephen P. Halbrook


Purportedly to fight violence in the streets, Germany’s Weimar Republic decreed gun registration in 1931, but warned that the records must not fall into the hands of radical elements. Hitler seized power in 1933 and used those very records to disarm political opponents and Jews in order to render them incapable of any form of resistance.


Political protest in France prompted Prime Minister Pierre Laval in 1935 to decree firearm registration and repression of the right to assemble. What could possibly go wrong?


The registration records were critical to the Nazis who overran France in 1940, imposed the death penalty for not turning in guns, and conscripted the French police to ferret out violators. Despite the chance of being executed, numerous French citizens did not surrender their firearms.


The very same Pierre Laval became the chief collaborator of the Nazis during the occupation. The newspapers regularly reported the names of gun owners shot by firing squads.
The brave French who had never registered their guns and retained them formed the basis for the Resistance. To be sure, they never had sufficient arms, and prewar restrictions on “military style” firearms hampered their efforts, leaving them to resist with inferior weapons. Yet they were able to commit acts of sabotage, gain intelligence, and sustain an underground movement to assist the Allies. After D-Day, they engaged in open armed resistance.


https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/v...rch="french gun confiscation 1935 fact check"

More important, as a historical matter, the passage of gun registration laws in Germany during the first part of the twentieth century is a complicated matter.


Following Germany's defeat in World War I, the Weimar Republic passed very strict gun control laws essentially banning all gun ownership, in an attempt both to stabilize the country and to comply with the Versailles Treaty of 1919.
-------

But even before the Treaty was signed, the German parliament of the Weimar Republic enacted legislation prohibiting gun possession
----

First, in 1938, the Nazi regime reenacted strict gun control laws and regulations that required licensing and reporting for the acquisition, transfer, or carrying of handguns, and for dealing and manufacturing in firearms and ammunition.89 In this respect, the Nazis had in place stringent gun regulation, including strict reporting requirements. Second, the Nazi gun laws of 1938 specifically banned Jewish persons from obtaining a license to manufacture firearms or ammunition.

In this respect, the Nazi gun laws were more restrictive than those under the Weimar Republic.
----

Fourth, approximately eight months after enacting the 1938 Nazi gun laws, Hitler imposed regulations prohibiting Jewish persons from possessing any dangerous weapons, including firearms. The Nazi regime implemented this prohibition by confiscating weapons, including guns, from Jewish persons, and subsequently engaged in genocide of the Jewish population.

Oh....and why we don't want licenses for gun owners...the Germans did it.....

Thus, the 1928 Law put into effect a strict licensing scheme that covered all aspects of firearms-from the manufacture to the sale, including repair and even the reloading of ammunition."°
-----

Finally, with regard to disarming the Jewish population, there is no dispute that the Nazis did disarm Jewish persons aggressively-of all firearms, as well as "truncheons or stabbing weapons. ' , 129 The Minister of the Interior, Frick, enacted Regulations Against Jew's Possession of Weapons on November 11, 1938, which effectively deprived all Jewish persons of the right to possess firearms or other weapons. It was a regulation prohibiting Jewish persons from having any dangerous weapon-not just guns.
-----

Moreover, prior to that, the German police and Nazis used the 1938 firearms law as an excuse to disarm Jewish persons. In Breslau, for instance, as Halbrook reports, the city police chief decreed the seizure of all firearms from Jewish persons on the ground that "the Jewish population 'cannot be regarded as trustworthy"' -using the language from the 1928 and 1938 firearms laws.131