Judge rules pro-HAMAS foreigner can be deported for undermining U.S. policy

[Lisa558]

Do you understand what a patently idiot you are?

What type of post do you expect from…..what was it she called me?…..oh yeah….”an entrenched racist bigot.”

Her antisemitism is beyond entrenched. She’s on auto-pilot when it comes to Jews.

 

[struth]

Read the post I was responding to for insight.

She hasn’t been accused of a crime

 

[struth]

Hamas is not committing genocide. It is committing terrorism. They have neither the power nor capability to commit genocide however much they may want to. Israel however does have both the power and capability.

Israel is attempting genocide of hamas

And folks like yourself are defending Hamas

Demafacist certainly have the potential to genocide the jews, another good reason to keep your bigoted asses out of power

 

[Coyote]

Why are you so terrified of having Americans hear HAMAS' side of the story?

Lisa’s bigotry aside, this is not the right argument. Hamas’ side includes horrific attacks on Israeli civilians, the murder, torture and incarceration of their own people in order to squash dissent. Hamas has a long history of this. They can’t be legitimized.

What American’s need to be allowed to hear are honest appeals to end this war, something that could have been done by now, with hostages released, if Netanyahu hadn’t needed a forever war for his political survival and a far-right extremist religious coalition intent on exterminating or expelling the inhabitants of Gaza and settling it with their Zionist settlers in a form of “manifest destiny”.

For the Record, if any company tried to sell a product by using a truly offensive caricature of a Jewish person, I would be the first person to protest it.

Not sure why you are trying to compare apples and oranges here, Lisa. Protesting an offensive caricature (and it took something like 60 years to get it finally removed) is a lot different than protesting FUCKING GENOCIDE.

Ya, I don’t get the point of her comparison either, it is one she uses often. False moral equivalence.

Um, what they want are for the Zionists to go back to Europe where they came from. Now, if 95% of you went back to Europe, that would be fine.

That’s a bit complicated. Israeli’s are a mix of indiginous Jews and Jews who have immigrated over generations. They’ve established their nation, they are Israeli’s, this their land too. Likewise, Palestinians aren’t some pure indiginous ethnic group but a composite of native people, including the Bedouin, and others who immigrated from nearby areas such as Egypt, for work.

How are you going divide everyone up and where are you going to send them? And…why is this demand not being made of other countries with multiple ethnic immigrant groups?

The problem with a two-state solution is that it accepts the initial theft of Palestinian Land. This is why it's a non-starter for most Palestinians.

Strongly disagree. There wasn’t an initial “theft of Palestinian land”. There was the messy legacy of colonial empires and various nationalist groups vying for the same bit of land. Ultimately, Israel fought for and won its state along with the other Arab countries created through the dissolution of the mandate. Borders were never settled or agreed upon and the Palestinians were both screwed and screwed themselves.

The only solutions that would be just imo…would be either two states or a semi-autonomous region under Israeli sovereignty with full Israeli citizenship rights.

No, protests are happening because the Israelis are committing GENOCIDE. that's why there are protests. It amazes me you keep getting that wrong.

Genocide doesn't become okay when you are doing it.

Lisa considers dissent to be anti-semitism. In her view, that is sufficient reason to secretly cancel visas, kidnap people off the streets and throw them in prison. No crimes committed, no access to lawyers or family. Disappeared right here in America.

 

[Coyote]

What type of post do you expect from…..what was it she called me?…..oh yeah….”an entrenched racist bigot.”

Her antisemitism is beyond entrenched. She’s on auto-pilot when it comes to Jews.

Umh…wait. You’re supposed to be ignoring me

So, when are you going to tell me what crime Rumeysa Ozturk committed to get snatched off the streets and thrown in jail? What did she say or do that promoted hatred and violence on Jews?

 

[Coyote]

Israel is attempting genocide of hamas

And folks like yourself are defending Hamas

Demafacist certainly have the potential to genocide the jews, another good reason to keep your bigoted asses out of power

The problem with folks like you is you conflate supporting basic rights with supporting Hamas and create a strawman. There is no point in a discussion with you.

 

[irosie91]

Nope. What do you think Netanyahu plans to do with the people who used to live in Gaza?

Interesting question---how many people "USED TO LIVE" in Gaza and where are they
now?

 

[irosie91]

The problem with folks like you is you conflate supporting basic rights with supporting Hamas and create a strawman. There is no point in a discussion with you.

what basic right are you supporting?

 

[struth]

The problem with folks like you is you conflate supporting basic rights with supporting Hamas and create a strawman. There is no point in a discussion with you.

Not at all, I support basic rights…I think Israelites and Palestines should be free from the horror of Hamas

You don’t

 

[Lisa558]

what basic right are you supporting?

She wants the right for Muslims from foreign countries to incite more antisemitism, along with assaults of Jewish kids on campus.

And she calls ME the bigot. In her world, a Jew who won’t be quiet in the face of antisemitism is a bigot. It’s how people like her get Jews to be quiet and accept the rise in Jew-hate and hate crimes. We learned our lesson after the Holocaust - ignoring the Jew-haters and being “nice” doesn’t work out.

 

[Lisa558]

Not at all, I support basic rights…I think Israelites and Palestines should be free from the horror of Hamas

You don’t

The Palestinians have to want that, though. Remember that the majority supported the Oct 7th massacre.

 

[Blisterfinger]

Ayup, the first amendment has gone the way of the Dodo.

That's where you should go

 

[irosie91]

That's where you should go

The DODO is now a protected species and making a come back

 

[Coyote]

what basic right are you supporting?

Life, freedom from torture, equal treatment before the law, freedom of movement, self-determination, equality.

 

[irosie91]

Life, freedom from torture, equal treatment before the law, freedom of movement, self-determination, equality.

what does your list of rights have to do with the subject at hand?

 

[Coyote]

She wants the right for Muslims from foreign countries to incite more antisemitism, along with assaults of Jewish kids on campus.

You’ve conflated support for Palestinian rights or criticism of Israel with support for Hamas even though in most of these protests that is not the case.

It would be like conflating the extremists in the rally in the 2017 Charlottesville (you know, the guys marching with Tikki torches chanting “Jews will not replace us”) with all MAGA supporters.

And she calls ME the bigot.

In her world, a Jew who won’t be quiet in the face of antisemitism is a bigot.
It’s how people like her get Jews to be quiet and accept the rise in Jew-hate and hate crimes. We learned our lesson after the Holocaust - ignoring the Jew-haters and being “nice” doesn’t work out.

I listened to this on the radio and was impressed with what he said. Ken Stern said it better than anything I could say in this interview. Apologies for all-caps but that was the way the transcript was.

He Wrote a Definition of Antisemitism; Now He Says It’s Being Weaponized​

The crisis across America’s campuses is causing some controversy over the current definition of antisemitism, as written by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. It’s a definition which has been adopted by countries across the globe. Author Kenneth Stern led the drafting of that document, and he joins the show with a warning that it’s being used to stifle free speech.

Q:
YOU SAY THAT THE TERM IS NOW BEING USED -- IT'S NOW BEING WEAPONIZED, ACTUALLY, TO MUZZLE FREE SPEECH ON CAMPUS.

COULD YOU JUST EXPLAIN HOW THE TERM, OR THE FRAMEWORK THAT YOU WROTE, IS NOW BEING WEAPONIZED, AND WHY YOU FIND THAT DANGEROUS?

Stern:
WELL, THE -- THE LANGUAGE OF THE DEFINITION WAS BEING STARTED TO BE USED IN TITLE 6 CASES AFTER 2010, AND IT WAS LOOKING AT ISSUES OF WHAT A PROFESSOR WAS TEACHING, WHAT SPEAKERS WERE COMING INTO CAMPUS, WHAT TEXTS WERE BEING ASSIGNED, THINGS THAT CLEARLY ARE THE HEART OF ACADEMIC FREEDOM, AND MY CONCERN IS THAT THE PUSHING OF THIS, ESPECIALLY IN TITLE SIX CASES, I'M NOT PARTICULARLY WORRIED ABOUT THE CASES THEMSELVES, THOUGH, I AM WORRIED ABOUT HOW SOME OF THEM ARE GOING TO BE LITIGATED, THE PRESSURE IS ON ADMINISTRATORS, WHEN THEY KNOW THAT PEOPLE ARE POISED TO SUE, WHEN CERTAIN SPEECH IS HAPPENING ON A CAMPUS THAT MAY TRIGGER SOMETHING TO FILE A TITLE SIX CASE.

THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO TRY TO SUPPRESS THAT SPEECH OR COUNTER THAT SPEECH, BECAUSE PART OF WHAT THEY DO, IN THEIR DAY JOB, IS TO PROTECT THE UNIVERSITY FROM BEING SUED.

SO, I SEE IT AS NOT JUST A LEGAL QUESTION, I SEE IT AS INTENTIONALLY TRYING TO CREATE A CHILLING EFFECT, AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S APPROPRIATE.

YOU DON'T USE INSTRUMENTS OF LAW TO SUPPRESS SPEECH.

AND IT'S ALSO BECOMING A SYMBOL, IN A WAY THAT'S REALLY TROUBLING TO ME, TOO, ABOUT, YOU KNOW, BEING CONCERNED ABOUT ANTI-SEMITISM, WHICH IS THE WORK I'VE BEEN DOING FOR DECADES.

ONCE WE TRY TO REDUCE THINGS INTO, IS THIS ANTI-SEMITISM OR NOT, WE'RE LOSING FOCUS ON SO MANY THINGS ABOUT HOW ANTI-SEMITISM WORKS IN THE REAL WORLD.

WE'D ALL CONSIDER THE TREE OF LIFE SHOOTING, CLEARLY ANTI-SEMITIC, BUT THE SHOOTER AT THE WALMART IN EL PASO A FEW MONTHS LATER HAD THE SAME IDEOLOGY, WAS WORRIED ABOUT THE FEVERED PITCH ASH IMMIGRANTS DESTROYING OUR COUNTRY, WE LOOK AT ONE AS ANTI-SEMITISM, WE DON'T LOOK AT THE OTHER AS ANTI-SEMITISM.

WHEN I TALK TO SYNAGOGUES, AND I SAY, JUST CONCERNED ABOUT ANTI-SEMITISM, WHAT CONCERNS ME MOST IS NOT NECESSARILY WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING ABOUT JEWS, IT'S WHAT POLITICIANS AND OTHERS ARE SAYING ABOUT ANYONE AMONG US AS A DANGER.

THE -- WHETHER IT'S IMMIGRANTS OR MUSLIMS OR OTHERS, BECAUSE ONCE YOU PRIME THAT PUMP, THAT INEVITABLY LEADS TO PEOPLE GETTING INTO THESE BUCKETS OF THINKING THAT ARE SORT OF CONVEYOR BELTS TO CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

ON TOP OF THAT, I WORK WITH THE AMERICAN JEWISH COMMITTEE FOR 25 YEARS.

I GUARDED THE TERM ANTI-SEMITISM.

TO HAVE A STING, IT HAS TO BE USED IN ONLY THE CLEAREST CASES.

I WOULD DEFAULT -- NOW, THERE'S A PUSH TO MAKE IT ALMOST UBIQUITOUS, AND WHEN EVERYTHING BECOMES ANTI-SEMITIC, NOTHING IS ANTI-SEMITIC, AND IT MAKES IT HARDER TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

 

[Coyote]

what does your list of rights have to do with the subject at hand?

They are part of what these protests are over.

 

[irosie91]

There is a lot to unpack here, but let’s start with Constitutional rights. It isn’t about defending aliens, it is about defending fundamental rights that apply to everyone on American soil:

Free speech
Legal representation
Equal protection

Either the president follows the law or the president makes the law. The latter is authoritarian.

all three require extensive COMMENTARY. I like that equal protection myth.
Am I entitled to security guards? Am I entitled to free legal representation?
Can I rally a crowd for the purpose of blocking your front door?

 

[irosie91]

They are part of what these protests are over.

what protests are over what rights?

 

[Coyote]

all three require extensive COMMENTARY. I like that equal protection myth.
Am I entitled to security guards?

That has nothing to do with what equal protection means.

Am I entitled to free legal representation?

If you are charged with a crime that could lead to imprisonment and can’t afford a lawyer, then yes.

Can I rally a crowd for the purpose of blocking your front door?

Of course not. At that point you, or the university, or the landowner would have a right to evict the protesters depending on their degree of tolerance for the protests.