Judge leaves Man $58 to live on, tells him: "You can afford it, figure it out."

[Modbert]

you don't believe in survival of the fittest?

Survival of the fittest works here how?

 

[elvis]

you don't believe in survival of the fittest?

Survival of the fittest works here how?

you've said you believe in it before.

 

[Modbert]

you've said you believe in it before.

My problem here isn't that the guy has to be paying child support. It's the ridiculous situation that the guy is left with. The child support system in this country is broken. The good guys get fucked over, and the deadbeats get away with it.

 

[elvis]

you've said you believe in it before.

My problem here isn't that the guy has to be paying child support. It's the ridiculous situation that the guy is left with. The child support system in this country is broken. The good guys get fucked over, and the deadbeats get away with it.

certainly seems to be the case.

 

[goldcatt]

Some guys really are deadbeats. And some get the shaft. But I agree, the system is screwed up and somebody always gets screwed in the end. Who gets bent over depends on the lawyers, the judge and the state where it's decided - and the state where it's enforced, if the noncustodial parent lives elsewhere. Everyone has a horror story. Hell of a way to run a railroad.

Except nine times out of ten, the mother will get custody. Unless the mother is literally the worst parent on earth, she will get custody the majority of the time.

But I do agree with a lot of what you said.

You're mostly right. The men are making progress though, several states now have default joint custody if hte circumstances are right. And of course men usually get joint legal custody if not physical, although that breeds its own set of problems.

 

[Intense]

you've said you believe in it before.

My problem here isn't that the guy has to be paying child support. It's the ridiculous situation that the guy is left with. The child support system in this country is broken. The good guys get fucked over, and the deadbeats get away with it.

Agreed. He will crash and Burn. Survive it, Hopefully find a better Judge, and pick up the pieces. Because of that incompetent Judge, Everyone in that Family will suffer. Sad.

 

[Modbert]

You're mostly right. The men are making progress though, several states now have default joint custody if hte circumstances are right. And of course men usually get joint legal custody if not physical, although that breeds its own set of problems.

They are making progress, that is true. The entire case of custody is a difficult thing and it's always more difficult when one side argues "well he'd be better here with me."

Oddly enough, I'm reminded of Boyz in the Hood at the moment.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Fuck that. The kids are his, he can figure it out. I'm raising 4 (it doesn't stop when they turn 18) and the pittance I get in child support is a joke. Heat alone is $200 a month....so 2/3 of that is theirs, and 1/2 of that should by rights be his. Add that to their portion of the rent, and guess what? I don't get anywhere near what I spend on them.

And that's just the second set. The first set, I've receive a grand total (over 24 years) of $5,200. Woo fucking hoo. We spent that much on one broken arm, 13 years ago.

If you're heating the house when you're there alone. a kid in the house does not raise your heating bill. if you have a phone in your house having a kid does not raise your phone bill or your cable bill etc.

so if you need a 3 bedroom apartment instead of a one the only consideration there would be half the difference in rent between a one and 3 bedroom.

if you're kids are 18 and not in college, they are considered adults and should be supporting themselves or at least paying you room and board.

And I'm sure the kids father spends money on them as well. And how did you collect child support for 24 years?

And there is no way you only received 216 dollars a year for child support. that's what your figures work out to.

 

[goldcatt]

You're mostly right. The men are making progress though, several states now have default joint custody if hte circumstances are right. And of course men usually get joint legal custody if not physical, although that breeds its own set of problems.

They are making progress, that is true. The entire case of custody is a difficult thing and it's always more difficult when one side argues "well he'd be better here with me."

Oddly enough, I'm reminded of Boyz in the Hood at the moment.

Too many parents forget kids aren't wishbones. Too many judges are too overloaded to care. Too many lawyers are too, and don't bother to be creative or look too hard at the facts. The whole family law system sucks, and for all the women can get screwed or the men shafted we all know who really gets lost. I don't have the answers, but something needs to be done.

 

[Modbert]

Too many parents forget kids aren't wishbones. Too many judges are too overloaded to care. Too many lawyers are too, and don't bother to be creative or look too hard at the facts. The whole family law system sucks, and for all the women can get screwed or the men shafted we all know who really gets lost. I don't have the answers, but something needs to be done.

Can't agree more with that. The whole system needs to be fixed.

 

[GHook93]

GlennSacks.com » Blog Archive » Family Attorney Marsha Freeman: 'The System is Broken'

John Nelson went from six-figure-earning software exectutive to unemployed overnight. But his $2,200 child support payment didn't change that quickly. It took a year for him to get a hearing, and when he finally did, the judge increased his obligation. By that time he had gotten a job as a science teacher, but the newly-upped child support obligation meant that he took home a grand total of $58 per week. Read about it here (WFTV, 11/9/09).

The judge, Julian Piggotte's attitude was "you can afford it; figure it out." Then she discovered that she had a conflict of interest in Nelson's case and withdrew.

His ex-wife sees the situation this way:

"Our lives go on. The kids still have lunches, they still go to school, and they still have field trips."

That's true. And if she and John were still together, the kids would need to be fed and go to school, but their standard of living would drop along with that of their parents. That's what happens when parents lose their jobs - parents and children live on less. They all manage the best they can. It's one of the sometimes-harsh realities of daily life.

Only if the parents are divorced does the concept arise that the children's lives must in no way change due to a parent's loss of income. It's as if Judge Piggotte lives in a fantasy world in which children must and do remain unaffected when their father loses his job. Indeed, it's the same fantasy world in which an adult can live on $58 per week.

Nelson's case is like countless others these days. Some 80% of job losses have been suffered by men in the last year or so. A lot of those guys are fathers, some of them divorced. That means they have to file for a modification of their support orders

It's another strange aspect of the whole matter that, if Nelson's wife had wanted a temporary restraining order against him, she could have gotten a hearing and had an order issued in a matter of hours. But when he loses his job and needs to reduce his child support to reflect what he can actually pay, it takes over a year.

Thoughts?

Further evidence that the Child Support system is broken?

Its a sticky situation. Child Support MUST be paid, and I say that reluctantly, because I would hate to kick in 31% of my gross. However, this case is an abomination. $58 a week? That can't even buy you a nice cardboard box to live in.

If I were the guy that is where you say I love the kids, but I have to go. Either move to another State (or even a different country) and run from the payments.

 

[Modbert]

Its a sticky situation. Child Support MUST be paid, and I say that reluctantly, because I would hate to kick in 31% of my gross. However, this case is an abomination. $58 a week? That can't even buy you a nice cardboard box to live in.

If I were the guy that is where you say I love the kids, but I have to go. Either move to another State (or even a different country) and run from the payments.

That's what many guys end up doing.

 

[Charles Stucker]

Too many judges are too overloaded to care. Too many lawyers are too, and don't bother to be creative or look too hard at the facts.

Sometimes creative lawyers are the problem.
A friend of mine in college babysat for, and befriended, a woman before her divorce.
The husband was a doctor. The mother had put him through college. They had three kids.

His attorney successfully argued that the father, because he earned far more than the mother, who still worked, would be a better provider than the mother and he got custody.
Then sued her for child support.

This is the same kind of nonsense and the culprit is the same; Lawyers screw the system in favor of their clients to make money for themselves.

I believe lawyers study ethics so they can figure out more creative ways to cheat people.

 

[Mr. H.]

you've said you believe in it before.

My problem here isn't that the guy has to be paying child support. It's the ridiculous situation that the guy is left with. The child support system in this country is broken. The good guys get fucked over, and the deadbeats get away with it.

Amen to that. Because of the nature of my work, income was all over the place sometimes month-to-month. I ended up draining my savings and most of my IRA to keep up the support payments. Everything I needed went on credit cards. Took me 10 years to get out of debt. That bulldog bitch lawyer my ex had even accused me of cheating on my tax returns. My sister still reminds me I got the better end of the deal. Good riddance to that evil ****.

 

[goldcatt]

Its a sticky situation. Child Support MUST be paid, and I say that reluctantly, because I would hate to kick in 31% of my gross. However, this case is an abomination. $58 a week? That can't even buy you a nice cardboard box to live in.

If I were the guy that is where you say I love the kids, but I have to go. Either move to another State (or even a different country) and run from the payments.

That's what many guys end up doing.

True. And who gets hurt in the end, again? A dad with a warrant for unpaid support isn't likely to be showing up to see the kids.

 

[Intense]

Still it is better to investigate and learn more than to act arbitrarily without regard to cause, effect, and consequence. It is not rational to put a Person on the Street over Child Support. The State and The Fed. should have the ability to charge with interest, for Support It provides as a result of Fraud, or Nonpayment where obligated and able. It can be garnished, and should even come before Tax Liability. That would wake some People up. It needs to be based on Income and Assets, at least at the minimum level.

 

[goldcatt]

Too many judges are too overloaded to care. Too many lawyers are too, and don't bother to be creative or look too hard at the facts.

Sometimes creative lawyers are the problem.
A friend of mine in college babysat for, and befriended, a woman before her divorce.
The husband was a doctor. The mother had put him through college. They had three kids.

His attorney successfully argued that the father, because he earned far more than the mother, who still worked, would be a better provider than the mother and he got custody.
Then sued her for child support.

This is the same kind of nonsense and the culprit is the same; Lawyers screw the system in favor of their clients to make money for themselves.

I believe lawyers study ethics so they can figure out more creative ways to cheat people.

That's not creative, it's bullshit. And in any state I've practiced in, income isn't a factor in custody determination. Don't get me started about the practice of law in some areas! There are reasons I had a fin-ectomy.

 

[Modbert]

True. And who gets hurt in the end, again? A dad with a warrant for unpaid support isn't likely to be showing up to see the kids.

Oh, of course. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it happens. Either way, the kids are always the ones who lose most.

I'm reminded of a movie I watched tonight. Author! Author! Author!

If you haven't seen it, I'd recommend it.

 

[GHook93]

Its a sticky situation. Child Support MUST be paid, and I say that reluctantly, because I would hate to kick in 31% of my gross. However, this case is an abomination. $58 a week? That can't even buy you a nice cardboard box to live in.

If I were the guy that is where you say I love the kids, but I have to go. Either move to another State (or even a different country) and run from the payments.

That's what many guys end up doing.

I don't think I could do it! Not seeing my kids would not be worth saving the money. I would first try to pay less regardless of the courts. Next I would see about living in the ex's basement. Third I would move in my parents.

I don't think I could ever live without seeing my kids on the regular!

 

[slackjawed]

Its a sticky situation. Child Support MUST be paid, and I say that reluctantly, because I would hate to kick in 31% of my gross. However, this case is an abomination. $58 a week? That can't even buy you a nice cardboard box to live in.

If I were the guy that is where you say I love the kids, but I have to go. Either move to another State (or even a different country) and run from the payments.

That's what many guys end up doing.

True. And who gets hurt in the end, again? A dad with a warrant for unpaid support isn't likely to be showing up to see the kids.

part of the problem that I have had is that my ex went to the court after I got sick and lost my job due to a terminal illness and insisted i was making a quarter million a year and giving her nothing. That was proven to be a lie. The judge insisted on issueing a warrant, but because she is in the republik of ny and i am in az, the sherriff here would not serve the warrant because I was in the hospital (against my will, i wasn't awake to refuse) The judge then issued another warrant against ME because the sherriff here would not arrest me for contempt of court.
Now, despite providing proof of income, or lack thereof, and still paying my child support, which actually is every penny I can come up with by working a job and busking on the streets when I can get to the city, that prick judge will not allow a review of how much I should pay because he said I tried to evade his first warrant. It's been 8 years since the amount was reviewed and I have been dealing with this prick judge in ny for 3 of that.
That guy was lucky to get left 58 bucks, I got left owing more than i make and then some. If I can't get to Albq, Tucson or Phoenix once or twice a month to busk on the streets i wouldn't be able to pay it or support myself.
The prick judge doesn't like that either because he has no control over not knowing how much I make busking.
What happens to men who are abused by the system and their stupid lazy ex-wives is that they find a way to exist in something I call the 'black economy'.
Forget about a bank account, they just take it. Forget about income tax refunds, they just take it. Forget about credit of any kind- won't happen. Cash is king and cash leaves no trace.
BTW-I talk to my kids every other day or so by phone, but I haven't been able to visit them in 3 years because this prick judge won't let them leave the republik of ny and visit their place of birth in AZ, and he has issued warrants for me in the republik of ny. My kids are 11 and almost 17. The 17 year old is so pissed about a prick ass arrogant judge denying him visiting his father and friends in az that he has decided to run away. So far I have been able to talk him out of it and keep him on track and in school.
I can fend for myself, but I hate what this fucked up legal system has done to my kids.