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Is that why all those atheists created Israel?I think I have already explained that from various anegles.
Not really, you've still not answered the basic point as to why only 0.25 of the world's Jewish population ever bothered to settle in Palestine
Thew fact of the pilgrimage itself indicates to the holiness of Israel to Jews.
The "holiness" is towards their cult centre Jerusalem, the idea of a "holy land" was a Christian invention siezed upon by Zionists in the 19th century to further their agenda. Jewish "pilgrims" would go to Jerusalem and leave or be buried there.
The main question here is are You willing to accept sources written by Jews?
If, like any other historical accounts, they can be corroborated from other sources.
I have showed numerous times that life in Palestine was indeed difficult especially for Jews,
Not more so than any other Palestinian living there.
4. Some thousands. Again if You're willing to accept Jewish sources.
However I think I can find other sources for numbers and dates after Shabat. But with simple research You can find the same I will- and if You're rational and unbiased You'll find it Yourself. Look for Hassidic immigration, and the students of Vilnius Gaon.
300?! really? Even allowing for your unsubstantiated claims, lets triple the original number; that still makes less than 1% of those Jewish people that apparently all had a "yearning to return".I think I have already explained that from various anegles.
Not really, you've still not answered the basic point as to why only 0.25 of the world's Jewish population ever bothered to settle in Palestine
Thew fact of the pilgrimage itself indicates to the holiness of Israel to Jews.
The "holiness" is towards their cult centre Jerusalem, the idea of a "holy land" was a Christian invention siezed upon by Zionists in the 19th century to further their agenda. Jewish "pilgrims" would go to Jerusalem and leave or be buried there.
The main question here is are You willing to accept sources written by Jews?
If, like any other historical accounts, they can be corroborated from other sources.
I have showed numerous times that life in Palestine was indeed difficult especially for Jews,
Not more so than any other Palestinian living there.
4. Some thousands. Again if You're willing to accept Jewish sources.
However I think I can find other sources for numbers and dates after Shabat. But with simple research You can find the same I will- and if You're rational and unbiased You'll find it Yourself. Look for Hassidic immigration, and the students of Vilnius Gaon.
300?! really? Even allowing for your unsubstantiated claims, lets triple the original number; that still makes less than 1% of those Jewish people that apparently all had a "yearning to return".
1. I have already given You numerous and long explanation, touching on a wide variety of Biblical, social, economic,historical, religious and cultural aspects in posts:
#11, #15 , #54 , #80
If You don't like those answers you're free to dogmatically accept only the answers given to You by Revisionist Zionists like Pappe, Sand and others who try to erase Jews from being a people.
Just don't enter discussions if You're not willing to accept any answer that contradicts Your opinion.
And again the parallel of Your question is :
"If workers and peasant suffered so much, why didn't they bring the Bolshevik revolution earlier".
You're simply attacking a minority's right to self determination for the lack of power in their community and govt. system.
Then again we have a continuous Jewish presence, whole communities that developed and numerous Synagogues built- for whom?
The last one -the famous swear of Solomon- prohibited Jews returning in waves until certain global conditions were met.
2. It seems You don't understand the concept of holiness or just disrespect it.
In that land we have the Holy of Holies, the tombs of our Patriarch and Matriarchs all those are holy places, and except for the Temple they're all outside of Jerusalem. The simple fact that the Holy G-d promised it and fulfilled makes it holy, as much as the shoes Moses wore became holy.
The whole of Judaism revolves about commandments of the land and Jews relationship to it.
Other fact is that a Jew remembers Israel throughout 3 daily prayers, blessings of meals and have a series of commandments especially dependent on residing in the Holy Land (7th year resting of land for example).
In addition I brought You the quotes of Maimonides and Nahmonides who stated that living outside of Israel is like worshiping Idols or having no G-d. Or the fact that residing in the land brings total forgiveness:
"He also writes: "The sages said: anyone who settles in Eretz Israel - his sins are forgiven, that it was said (Isaiah 33:24).
Even if he went 4 steps on the land - winning the life of the world to be! And everyone who is buried in it - he was atoned, and it's like the place he's in an altar of atonement, that it was said :" and appease His land [and] His people" (Deuteronomy 32:43). The greatest of sages lead their remnants there. Go learn from Jacob our father and Joseph the righteous "
3. Really except for the occasional massacre here and there, destruction of whole Jewish communities, looting, changing of power and conquests and the special series of "Jew Taxes"- the conditions were really welcoming NOT.
Good luck proving the opposite.
4. Well Motelatici just recently brought up information about continuous returning of thousands of Jews (post #67). Otherwise how do You think the Galilee communities survived all the wars and masecares?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the land wasn't holly why would 26,000 Jewish soldiers risk their lives helping conquer the land during the Heraclius Revolt , or 10,000 Jewish soldiers from Persia decided to go with Abu 'Isa Obadiah?
*Basically in Judaism the're 10 levels of holiness of the land of Israel:
"עֶשֶׂר קְדֻשּׁוֹת הֵן: אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל מְקֻדֶּשֶׁת מִכָּל הָאֲרָצוֹת. וּמַה הִיא קְדֻשָּׁתָהּ, שֶׁמְּבִיאִים מִמֶּנָּה הָעֹמֶר וְהַבִּכּוּרִים וּשְׁתֵּי הַלֶּחֶם, מַה שֶּׁאֵין מְבִיאִין כֵּן מִכָּל הָאֲרָצוֹת:"
"10 levels of holiness are: Eretz Israel is holler than any land. And what is her holiness? That You bring of her the Omer, the Bikurim and 2 Breads, what You don't bring from any other land" (Mishna, Kelim 1:6)
*"a land the Lord, your God, looks after; the eyes of Lord your God are always upon it, from the beginning of the year to the end of the year." (Deuteronomy 11)
Is that why all those atheists created Israel?I think I have already explained that from various anegles.
Not really, you've still not answered the basic point as to why only 0.25 of the world's Jewish population ever bothered to settle in Palestine
Thew fact of the pilgrimage itself indicates to the holiness of Israel to Jews.
The "holiness" is towards their cult centre Jerusalem, the idea of a "holy land" was a Christian invention siezed upon by Zionists in the 19th century to further their agenda. Jewish "pilgrims" would go to Jerusalem and leave or be buried there.
The main question here is are You willing to accept sources written by Jews?
If, like any other historical accounts, they can be corroborated from other sources.
I have showed numerous times that life in Palestine was indeed difficult especially for Jews,
Not more so than any other Palestinian living there.
4. Some thousands. Again if You're willing to accept Jewish sources.
However I think I can find other sources for numbers and dates after Shabat. But with simple research You can find the same I will- and if You're rational and unbiased You'll find it Yourself. Look for Hassidic immigration, and the students of Vilnius Gaon.
300?! really? Even allowing for your unsubstantiated claims, lets triple the original number; that still makes less than 1% of those Jewish people that apparently all had a "yearning to return".I think I have already explained that from various anegles.
Not really, you've still not answered the basic point as to why only 0.25 of the world's Jewish population ever bothered to settle in Palestine
Thew fact of the pilgrimage itself indicates to the holiness of Israel to Jews.
The "holiness" is towards their cult centre Jerusalem, the idea of a "holy land" was a Christian invention siezed upon by Zionists in the 19th century to further their agenda. Jewish "pilgrims" would go to Jerusalem and leave or be buried there.
The main question here is are You willing to accept sources written by Jews?
If, like any other historical accounts, they can be corroborated from other sources.
I have showed numerous times that life in Palestine was indeed difficult especially for Jews,
Not more so than any other Palestinian living there.
4. Some thousands. Again if You're willing to accept Jewish sources.
However I think I can find other sources for numbers and dates after Shabat. But with simple research You can find the same I will- and if You're rational and unbiased You'll find it Yourself. Look for Hassidic immigration, and the students of Vilnius Gaon.
300?! really? Even allowing for your unsubstantiated claims, lets triple the original number; that still makes less than 1% of those Jewish people that apparently all had a "yearning to return".
1. I have already given You numerous and long explanation, touching on a wide variety of Biblical, social, economic,historical, religious and cultural aspects in posts:
#11, #15 , #54 , #80
If You don't like those answers you're free to dogmatically accept only the answers given to You by Revisionist Zionists like Pappe, Sand and others who try to erase Jews from being a people.
Just don't enter discussions if You're not willing to accept any answer that contradicts Your opinion.
And again the parallel of Your question is :
"If workers and peasant suffered so much, why didn't they bring the Bolshevik revolution earlier".
You're simply attacking a minority's right to self determination for the lack of power in their community and govt. system.
Then again we have a continuous Jewish presence, whole communities that developed and numerous Synagogues built- for whom?
The last one -the famous swear of Solomon- prohibited Jews returning in waves until certain global conditions were met.
2. It seems You don't understand the concept of holiness or just disrespect it.
In that land we have the Holy of Holies, the tombs of our Patriarch and Matriarchs all those are holy places, and except for the Temple they're all outside of Jerusalem. The simple fact that the Holy G-d promised it and fulfilled makes it holy, as much as the shoes Moses wore became holy.
The whole of Judaism revolves about commandments of the land and Jews relationship to it.
Other fact is that a Jew remembers Israel throughout 3 daily prayers, blessings of meals and have a series of commandments especially dependent on residing in the Holy Land (7th year resting of land for example).
In addition I brought You the quotes of Maimonides and Nahmonides who stated that living outside of Israel is like worshiping Idols or having no G-d. Or the fact that residing in the land brings total forgiveness:
"He also writes: "The sages said: anyone who settles in Eretz Israel - his sins are forgiven, that it was said (Isaiah 33:24).
Even if he went 4 steps on the land - winning the life of the world to be! And everyone who is buried in it - he was atoned, and it's like the place he's in an altar of atonement, that it was said :" and appease His land [and] His people" (Deuteronomy 32:43). The greatest of sages lead their remnants there. Go learn from Jacob our father and Joseph the righteous "
3. Really except for the occasional massacre here and there, destruction of whole Jewish communities, looting, changing of power and conquests and the special series of "Jew Taxes"- the conditions were really welcoming NOT.
Good luck proving the opposite.
4. Well Motelatici just recently brought up information about continuous returning of thousands of Jews (post #67). Otherwise how do You think the Galilee communities survived all the wars and masecares?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the land wasn't holly why would 26,000 Jewish soldiers risk their lives helping conquer the land during the Heraclius Revolt , or 10,000 Jewish soldiers from Persia decided to go with Abu 'Isa Obadiah?
*Basically in Judaism the're 10 levels of holiness of the land of Israel:
"עֶשֶׂר קְדֻשּׁוֹת הֵן: אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל מְקֻדֶּשֶׁת מִכָּל הָאֲרָצוֹת. וּמַה הִיא קְדֻשָּׁתָהּ, שֶׁמְּבִיאִים מִמֶּנָּה הָעֹמֶר וְהַבִּכּוּרִים וּשְׁתֵּי הַלֶּחֶם, מַה שֶּׁאֵין מְבִיאִין כֵּן מִכָּל הָאֲרָצוֹת:"
"10 levels of holiness are: Eretz Israel is holler than any land. And what is her holiness? That You bring of her the Omer, the Bikurim and 2 Breads, what You don't bring from any other land" (Mishna, Kelim 1:6)
*"a land the Lord, your God, looks after; the eyes of Lord your God are always upon it, from the beginning of the year to the end of the year." (Deuteronomy 11)
Sure, these people have a special credit in G-d's eyes. While being secular all their life they helped bring millions of Jews home, and shed their blood for it. This is a serious credit on their account.
I have already given You numerous and long explanation,
Just don't enter discussions if You're not willing to accept any answer that contradicts Your opinion.
And again the parallel of Your question is :
In that land we have the Holy of Holies, the tombs of our Patriarch and Matriarchs all those are holy places, and except for the Temple they're all outside of Jerusalem.
In addition I brought You the quotes of Maimonides and Nahmonides who stated that living outside of Israel is like worshiping Idols or having no G-d.
Really except for the occasional massacre here and there, destruction of whole Jewish communities, looting, changing of power and conquests and the special series of "Jew Taxes"- the conditions were really welcoming NOT.
These "Israel right or wrong" people are not G-d fearing Jews or even traditional Jews in ANY sense of the word.Oh, so all those devout Jewish Rabbis failed, but the Zionist terrorists get "special credit", what a warped depraved deity you must believe in.
Excellent post, thank you.The holliness of the land is not a subject to the the amount of Jews in or their personal choices.
No, but if the land was so "holy" and Jewish people had such a "yearning" to return, you'd think more than 15,000 would have made the trip in the 1200 years where there was no restrictions on settlement there by anyone including Jewish people.
Wealthy people like Maimonides and others tried to settle but didn't manage to stay for long.
There's no objective evidence Maimonides ever tried to settle there, he made his pilgrimage to Jerusalem and left, to settle in Egypt.
Moving to Palestine meant facing constantly changing rulers, wars, facing hunger, malaria, monetary hardships and especially in the light of the special 'Jewish taxes'.
In over 1,278 years between the arab conquest in 636 until 1914 there were approximately 900 years of peaceful stable government in Palestine during which there was no restrictions on travel or settlement by Jewish people, no massacres, hunger, etc. Yet only a tiny, tiny minority of Europe's, North Africa's and the rest of the Middle East's Jewish population bothered to go there and settle, not much of a "yearning" to "return" is there? Puts the lie to the Zionist narrative; Zionists lie, period.
The most opposing and prominent Rabbis of that time- Rabi Israel Baal Shem Tov and his counterpart Rabi Elyahu the Gaon agreed on one thing- they both sent whole communities to Israel to settle and enforce the longstanding communities in Jerusalem, Hebron, Shchem, Beit El, Sefad and Tiberias.
Did they? How many in total? Care to provide a link or source?
These guys are "rabid anti-Semites?"Excellent post, thank you.The holliness of the land is not a subject to the the amount of Jews in or their personal choices.
No, but if the land was so "holy" and Jewish people had such a "yearning" to return, you'd think more than 15,000 would have made the trip in the 1200 years where there was no restrictions on settlement there by anyone including Jewish people.
Wealthy people like Maimonides and others tried to settle but didn't manage to stay for long.
There's no objective evidence Maimonides ever tried to settle there, he made his pilgrimage to Jerusalem and left, to settle in Egypt.
Moving to Palestine meant facing constantly changing rulers, wars, facing hunger, malaria, monetary hardships and especially in the light of the special 'Jewish taxes'.
In over 1,278 years between the arab conquest in 636 until 1914 there were approximately 900 years of peaceful stable government in Palestine during which there was no restrictions on travel or settlement by Jewish people, no massacres, hunger, etc. Yet only a tiny, tiny minority of Europe's, North Africa's and the rest of the Middle East's Jewish population bothered to go there and settle, not much of a "yearning" to "return" is there? Puts the lie to the Zionist narrative; Zionists lie, period.
The most opposing and prominent Rabbis of that time- Rabi Israel Baal Shem Tov and his counterpart Rabi Elyahu the Gaon agreed on one thing- they both sent whole communities to Israel to settle and enforce the longstanding communities in Jerusalem, Hebron, Shchem, Beit El, Sefad and Tiberias.
Did they? How many in total? Care to provide a link or source?
Excellent? Lol why don't you 2 fags get a room?
This post were rife with lies, falsehoods, bullshit and rabid antisemite.
No wonder you are so quick to jump in bed with him.
Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
How do you know who that is? I guess that is your way of pretending that real Jews believe as you?It's funny when Ahmed holds up that sign.
It has been long known that there are some Jews who are against the State of Israel, thanks for reminding us. Note, your article here (that you re-posted from your own OP) is almost seventeen years old.From the link in the OP:
Over 10,000 Orthodox Jews protesting the existence of the state of Israel, and the recent beating of Orthodox Jews who protested in Israel against the uprooting of Jewish cemeteries...
10,000 Demonstrate in NYC Against Israel on April 28, 2005
And there you have real antisemitism!
I hope this helps clear up the confusion.
Over 10,000 Orthodox Jews protesting the existence of the state of Israel, and the recent beating of Orthodox Jews who protested in Israel against the uprooting of Jewish cemeteries of antiquity which was done in order to enable the construction of a highway #6, near Haifa, Israel – protest in front of the Israeli consulate New York City, Thursday, April 28, 2005
10,000 Demonstrate in NYC Against Israel on April 28, 2005
It has been long known that there are some Jews who are against the State of Israel, thanks for reminding us. Note, your article here (that you re-posted from your own OP) is almost seventeen years old.From the link in the OP:
Over 10,000 Orthodox Jews protesting the existence of the state of Israel, and the recent beating of Orthodox Jews who protested in Israel against the uprooting of Jewish cemeteries...
10,000 Demonstrate in NYC Against Israel on April 28, 2005
And there you have real antisemitism!
But your real intent here is to make sure that the front page is full of anti-Israel posts, mainly yours. Once you see one fall off, you do like you did here and quote your own OP to bump it back to the front page. Many other forum sites would possibly ban your for this behavior. Yet when someone creates a thread asking for some real solutions, all you can do is trash everyone else's post(s) in it instead of posting something intelligent. Why? If you have such a problem with how things are in Israel/Palestine, why not post a solution in your own words?
You really just need to stop the attention whoring and get out of your momma's basement, boy.
So they don´t like Zionists. But why don´t they like Israel? What about an Israel not ruled by Zionists?
Here are some political positions of Israeli parties:
Zionism
Labor Zionism
Liberal Zionism
Revisionist Zionism
Neo-Zionism
World Zionism
Anti-Zionism
Maybe, there could be even more:
Arab Zionism
Drone Zionism
Environment Zionism
Internet Zionism
Saudi Zionism
Two-State Zionism
Welfare Zionism
What do you think?
Those are sarcastic proposals.So they don´t like Zionists. But why don´t they like Israel? What about an Israel not ruled by Zionists?
Here are some political positions of Israeli parties:
Zionism
Labor Zionism
Liberal Zionism
Revisionist Zionism
Neo-Zionism
World Zionism
Anti-Zionism
Maybe, there could be even more:
Arab Zionism
Drone Zionism
Environment Zionism
Internet Zionism
Saudi Zionism
Two-State Zionism
Welfare Zionism
What do you think?
you can't have an Israel not run by Zionists because by definition if you support (as you should) Israel, then you're a Zionist.
you're welcome.
there is no such thing as arab Zionism. but thanks for playing
