Joyce, are you ready to have your racial views changed?

William Joyce

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You are basing your definition of race on someone's mother's religion.
Not me, Jewish law/tradition says that.

Hell, ask jillian.

There are some reform rabbis who have pushed to include Jewish FATHER as making for a Jew, but I don't know if that's gotten anywhere.
 

mattskramer

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Not me, Jewish law/tradition says that.

Hell, ask jillian.

There are some reform rabbis who have pushed to include Jewish FATHER as making for a Jew, but I don't know if that's gotten anywhere.
What if you are born to a Jewish family but then decide that you don’t want to be a Jew. Wow. That seems like a tough life sentence. “My mother was a Jew. I am an adult and I want to turn away from Judaism and denounce it. I can’t do it. I will forever be a Jew. Even if I want to be a Christian I am forced to be a Jew.

What if you were not born a Jew – can you become a Jew?

Gee what a tough club. If you are a member, you can’t get out. If you are not a member, you can’t get in.
 

actsnoblemartin

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would u have the balls to say this if william was black and he hated whites?

if the answer is no, then shut up
 

mattskramer

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would u have the balls to say this if william was black and he hated whites?

if the answer is no, then shut up
Please be more specific. Are you responding to my comment? Would who have the balls to say what if William was black and he hated whites?
 

jillian

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Not me, Jewish law/tradition says that.

Hell, ask jillian.

There are some reform rabbis who have pushed to include Jewish FATHER as making for a Jew, but I don't know if that's gotten anywhere.
Jewish law says that because you always know who the mother is, not who the father is. Was actually a practical application. But anyone can convert in.

As for father's blood... yes, that's gotten places. Was a big movement in Israel about it.

But don't worry, Hitler defined it as having jewish blood. He didn't discriminate between mother and father. That should comfort you.
 

jillian

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What if you are born to a Jewish family but then decide that you don’t want to be a Jew. Wow. That seems like a tough life sentence. “My mother was a Jew. I am an adult and I want to turn away from Judaism and denounce it. I can’t do it. I will forever be a Jew. Even if I want to be a Christian I am forced to be a Jew.

What if you were not born a Jew – can you become a Jew?

Gee what a tough club. If you are a member, you can’t get out. If you are not a member, you can’t get in.
See my post above...

As for not getting out once you're in, well, that would be people like WJ who like that one.
 

mattskramer

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Jewish law says that because you always know who the mother is, not who the father is. Was actually a practical application. But anyone can convert in.

As for father's blood... yes, that's gotten places. Was a big movement in Israel about it.
Can anyone convert into Judaism, or is a blood transfusion required?
 

Shogun

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Walter Sobchak: I'm saying, I see what you're getting at, Dude, he kept the money. My point is, here we are, it's shabbas, the sabbath, which I'm allowed to break only if it's a matter of life or death...
The Dude: Will you come off it, Walter? You're not even fucking Jewish, man.
Walter Sobchak: What the fuck are you talkin' about?
The Dude: Man, you're fucking Polish Catholic...
Walter Sobchak: What the fuck are you talking about? I converted when I married Cynthia! Come on, Dude!
The Dude: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah...
Walter Sobchak: And you know this!
The Dude: Yeah, and five fucking years ago you were divorced.
Walter Sobchak: So what are you saying? When you get divorced you turn in your library card? You get a new license? You stop being Jewish?
The Dude: It's all a part of your sick Cynthia thing, man. Taking care of her fucking dog. Going to her fucking synagogue. You're living in the fucking past.
Walter Sobchak: Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax...
[shouting]
Walter Sobchak: You're goddamn right I'm living in the fucking past!


:rofl:
 

mattskramer

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No blood transfusion. Though there is the bit about circumcision after the studying.
I think that you get the point that I'm trying to make.

People should stop categorizing people. I mean, if I believe that I’m a Christian, who is to declare that I am not a Christian (I think that the Pope can be wrong.) If I see myself as a Jew, who is to judge me and declare that I’m not a Jew. People are so quick to decide if one is a liberal or a conservative too. I give people my opinion on a few issues and, blam, I’m labeled a Liberal. Then I give my opinion on other issues and, blam, I’m a conservative. Also, don’t people have the right to grow, think, become undecided and then, after some time has passed, change their minds? I feel the same way about race. What if I paint my skin dark and use special makeup to make me look Black. I’m still me. Race should not make a difference any more. I wonder what would happen if I filled out a form and said that I was Black.

Oh well. I guess that you get my picture. I think that racial, religious, and political labels are used too often and are practically unnecessary. People are whoever they say that they are and, as for me, I’m a human far above any other label.
 
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CharlestonChad

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Not me, Jewish law/tradition says that.

Hell, ask jillian.

There are some reform rabbis who have pushed to include Jewish FATHER as making for a Jew, but I don't know if that's gotten anywhere.
So, how do you discriminate then if the only way to determine a person of Jewish "race" or "ethinicity" is through blood testing? If differences are real, then there must be a way of knowing it. When you call out a jew as ruining the world, how do you know them to be jewish? A woman can become a jew by converted, so then what actually makes them jewish beside their religion?
 

William Joyce

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So, how do you discriminate then if the only way to determine a person of Jewish "race" or "ethinicity" is through blood testing? If differences are real, then there must be a way of knowing it. When you call out a jew as ruining the world, how do you know them to be jewish? A woman can become a jew by converted, so then what actually makes them jewish beside their religion?
A fair question. There's plenty to work with, however. For instance, take war in the Middle East. It's just beyond question that so many of the men in power who seek it are Jewish. We know this because they self-identify as Jews, hold in some cases Israeli citizenship, write things about how Israel must be protected, have last names that are Jewish, and so on. Of course I oppose this policy direction. SO, if I were in power, I would look for the pattern and work to stop it. I would say, "Mr. Wolfowitz, thank you for stopping by my office to share your belief that we should invade Iraq. But I see that you are Jewish, and that this is a big part of your motivation. So, I'm going to decline to do what you say."

Is it possible that Wolfowitz isn't Jewish? Sure, but the chance is good enough to make the determination vis a vis course of action.
 

mattskramer

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I would say, "Mr. Wolfowitz, thank you for stopping by my office to share your belief that we should invade Iraq. But I see that you are Jewish, and that this is a big part of your motivation. So, I'm going to decline to do what you say."
Wow. Let me get this straight. Instead of taking the time to carefully listen to the message itself and the reasons for it, weighing in your mind in consideration with other perspective you have received, and coming to a thought out conclusion for yourself, you simply refuse to listen to a guy’s reasoned views because of your preconceived notion of his religious preference. Am I right?

If so, then it would be like a Christian trying to convince me that the Biblical story of Christ was real. “Oh. You’re a Christian so you have a bias and an agenda. Therefore, I’m not going to listen to you or bother considering what you have to say”.

No. I don’t think that way. That would be too easy a cop-out. The Christian might have some perspective or insight that I had not considered. Likewise, Wolfowitz might have some reasons why invading Iraq would be a good thing, aside from the possibility that he is a Jew.
 

William Joyce

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Wow. Let me get this straight. Instead of taking the time to carefully listen to the message itself and the reasons for it, weighing in your mind in consideration with other perspective you have received, and coming to a thought out conclusion for yourself, you simply refuse to listen to a guy’s reasoned views because of your preconceived notion of his religious preference. Am I right?

If so, then it would be like a Christian trying to convince me that the Biblical story of Christ was real. “Oh. You’re a Christian so you have a bias and an agenda. Therefore, I’m not going to listen to you or bother considering what you have to say”.

No. I don’t think that way. That would be too easy a cop-out. The Christian might have some perspective or insight that I had not considered. Likewise, Wolfowitz might have some reasons why invading Iraq would be a good thing, aside from the possibility that he is a Jew.
The ethnicity and the message are intertwined. The message from Jews is always that "this is America's cause" or "this is good for everyone," but in fact, it's not "good for everyone," it's good for JEWS. And ACTUALLY HURTS everyone else! So, there is deception involved.

With the Christian example, there is no deception --- he's a Christian and wants you to be one, too. His bias is totally exposed.
 

mattskramer

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The ethnicity and the message are intertwined. The message from Jews is always that "this is America's cause" or "this is good for everyone," but in fact, it's not "good for everyone," it's good for JEWS. And ACTUALLY HURTS everyone else! So, there is deception involved.

With the Christian example, there is no deception --- he's a Christian and wants you to be one, too. His bias is totally exposed.
Okay. So, I guess that you would give some weight to the message and consider the messenger. It depends on how much weight that you give to each. I don’t give very much weight on the person (the messenger) when evaluating the message.
 

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Okay. So, I guess that you would give some weight to the message and consider the messenger. It depends on how much weight that you give to each. I don’t much very much weight on the person (the messenger) when evaluating the message.

That would be your mistake.........................:rolleyes:
 

mattskramer

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That would be your mistake.........................:rolleyes:
That would be my typing mistake. If you are a Republican, do you brush off comments made by Democrats because they are made by Democrats? If you are a Democrat, do you brush off comments made by Republicans because they are Republicans? If you are white do you brush off comments made by blacks because they are black? Doing show just reflects your shortsightedness and mental laziness.
 

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