Josh Duggar And The Message Of Forgiveness

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Foxfyre

demanding that one person bear the most severe penalty of law but give those we like pretty much a pass, it all becomes quite murky and the lines of justice become very blurred.

I think each of us has to search our own heart for what is appropriate in any given case.

none of our opinions have the power of any law to 'give passes' or 'severe' punishment..in our heart?


what does it mean to DEMAND when you are merely giving your opinion, you can't demand others agree with you..?


laws exist which seek to protect children like those sisters from any harm as clinically defined within the law.

their personal forgiveness is typical and does not preclude the law yet the law has not demanded penalty.


the reason duggar is being highlighted lately is because the creep did what he did and still has the nerve to politically pontificate over what is supposedly harmful to children...

maybe you could search your heart for understanding why others soundly rebuke his agenda.

Sorry, but I am of the school that a good idea is a good idea, a good concept is a good concept regardless of who thinks it up or who promotes it. I can appreciate that he has been a strong advocate for children while at the same time I have not, will not, cannot excuse or defend what Josh Duggar did. I don't expect anybody else to.

He has been publicly humiliated. He has resigned his professional position because of all the negative publicity and because he would be a detriment to the organization. But I simply refuse to pile on and join personal attacks on a person who has openly confessed and repented of his bad acts as a young teenager and for who there is no indication that he has ever continued in those bad acts.

If the victims of those bad acts now say there was no lasting harm, who say they have forgiven him and love him very much, who are we to continue to demand--"demand" defined as "an insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right:" or the insistence that he must now pay for his crimes--that he continue to be punished?

At what point can any person be allowed to live as the person he/she has become rather than as the person he/she once was?

And in fact it's not without harm that scoffers continue to vilify who God has forgiven. Jesus gives a grave warning about idle words, that men will give an account of every idle word spoken. We're not talking about colloquial conversation, we're talking about destructive words and condemnations, especially against the house of God.

Satan continually accuses those who God forgave, and when the unregenerate of heart do the same, they demonstrate that they are indeed his servants.

 

[Foxfyre]

Foxfyre

demanding that one person bear the most severe penalty of law but give those we like pretty much a pass, it all becomes quite murky and the lines of justice become very blurred.

I think each of us has to search our own heart for what is appropriate in any given case.

none of our opinions have the power of any law to 'give passes' or 'severe' punishment..in our heart?


what does it mean to DEMAND when you are merely giving your opinion, you can't demand others agree with you..?


laws exist which seek to protect children like those sisters from any harm as clinically defined within the law.

their personal forgiveness is typical and does not preclude the law yet the law has not demanded penalty.


the reason duggar is being highlighted lately is because the creep did what he did and still has the nerve to politically pontificate over what is supposedly harmful to children...

maybe you could search your heart for understanding why others soundly rebuke his agenda.

Sorry, but I am of the school that a good idea is a good idea, a good concept is a good concept regardless of who thinks it up or who promotes it. I can appreciate that he has been a strong advocate for children while at the same time I have not, will not, cannot excuse or defend what Josh Duggar did. I don't expect anybody else to.

He has been publicly humiliated. He has resigned his professional position because of all the negative publicity and because he would be a detriment to the organization. But I simply refuse to pile on and join personal attacks on a person who has openly confessed and repented of his bad acts as a young teenager and for who there is no indication that he has ever continued in those bad acts.

If the victims of those bad acts now say there was no lasting harm, who say they have forgiven him and love him very much, who are we to continue to demand--"demand" defined as "an insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right:" or the insistence that he must now pay for his crimes--that he continue to be punished?

At what point can any person be allowed to live as the person he/she has become rather than as the person he/she once was?

And in fact it's not without harm that scoffers continue to vilify who God has forgiven. Jesus gives a grave warning about idle words, that men will give an account of every idle word spoken. We're not talking about colloquial conversation, we're talking about destructive words and condemnations, especially against the house of God.

Satan continually accuses those who God forgave, and when the unregenerate of heart do the same, they demonstrate that they are indeed his servants.

Well in keeping with Jesus admonition to "Judge not lest we be judged also", I don't know what is in the heart and mind of the scoffers. I will judge their actions as a destructive, mean spirited, hateful dynamic, but it has not been given to me to judge the people or know what evil prompts their behavior.

I just know there's an awful lot of it going around and that our common lives together suffers because of it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

When Michael Brown of Ferguson stole cigarillos, the Right dubbed him a thug who deserved to die.

Josh Duggar fingers a 4th grade girl and the Right makes him temporary Jesus.

Talk about perversion.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Foxfyre

demanding that one person bear the most severe penalty of law but give those we like pretty much a pass, it all becomes quite murky and the lines of justice become very blurred.

I think each of us has to search our own heart for what is appropriate in any given case.

none of our opinions have the power of any law to 'give passes' or 'severe' punishment..in our heart?


what does it mean to DEMAND when you are merely giving your opinion, you can't demand others agree with you..?


laws exist which seek to protect children like those sisters from any harm as clinically defined within the law.

their personal forgiveness is typical and does not preclude the law yet the law has not demanded penalty.


the reason duggar is being highlighted lately is because the creep did what he did and still has the nerve to politically pontificate over what is supposedly harmful to children...

maybe you could search your heart for understanding why others soundly rebuke his agenda.

Sorry, but I am of the school that a good idea is a good idea, a good concept is a good concept regardless of who thinks it up or who promotes it. I can appreciate that he has been a strong advocate for children while at the same time I have not, will not, cannot excuse or defend what Josh Duggar did. I don't expect anybody else to.

He has been publicly humiliated. He has resigned his professional position because of all the negative publicity and because he would be a detriment to the organization. But I simply refuse to pile on and join personal attacks on a person who has openly confessed and repented of his bad acts as a young teenager and for who there is no indication that he has ever continued in those bad acts.

If the victims of those bad acts now say there was no lasting harm, who say they have forgiven him and love him very much, who are we to continue to demand--"demand" defined as "an insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right:" or the insistence that he must now pay for his crimes--that he continue to be punished?

At what point can any person be allowed to live as the person he/she has become rather than as the person he/she once was?

And in fact it's not without harm that scoffers continue to vilify who God has forgiven. Jesus gives a grave warning about idle words, that men will give an account of every idle word spoken. We're not talking about colloquial conversation, we're talking about destructive words and condemnations, especially against the house of God.

Satan continually accuses those who God forgave, and when the unregenerate of heart do the same, they demonstrate that they are indeed his servants.

Well in keeping with Jesus admonition to "Judge not lest we be judged also", I don't know what is in the heart and mind of the scoffers. I will judge their actions as a destructive, mean spirited, hateful dynamic, but it has not been given to me to judge the people or know what evil prompts their behavior.

I just know there's an awful lot of it going around and that our common lives together suffers because of it.

So only those who haven't molested 10 year olds have the standing to judge Josh Duggar?

lol

 

[NYcarbineer]

remember karla faye tucker and all those fundy weasels christer leaders crying that she shouldn't get the death penalty after butchering people because she found "jebus" in prison

Despicable people

Karla Faye Tucker took someone's life and the State made the right decision in going forward with the death penalty, Guno. My husband said that Karla Faye Tucker said that the death sentence she was given was just. So she herself did not disagree with you on the matter of her sentence.
But let me ask you a question I heard (read) from someone else recently. How wicked do sinners have to become before God gives up on them? Can a serial murderer be forgiven? Yes, serial murderers have been forgiven although they remain behind prison bars - they are living in greater liberty than some people living on the outside because of their relationship with Jesus Christ.

There are many people who have been forced into murder because they were involved in a satanic cult. Others may look at them and say everyone can be saved except for that one! And yet that is the very one the LORD is seeking to save! Because He knows the heart of that person and sees their desperation. His compassion is very, very great!

We cannot ever count anyone out. Remember the mercy you refuse to give others today is the same mercy you may need for yourself in the future. With God all things are possible.

If you believe Christ's teaching then Carla Faye Tucker is in heaven. Maybe you two will be roomies.

 

[Foxfyre]

Foxfyre

demanding that one person bear the most severe penalty of law but give those we like pretty much a pass, it all becomes quite murky and the lines of justice become very blurred.

I think each of us has to search our own heart for what is appropriate in any given case.

none of our opinions have the power of any law to 'give passes' or 'severe' punishment..in our heart?


what does it mean to DEMAND when you are merely giving your opinion, you can't demand others agree with you..?


laws exist which seek to protect children like those sisters from any harm as clinically defined within the law.

their personal forgiveness is typical and does not preclude the law yet the law has not demanded penalty.


the reason duggar is being highlighted lately is because the creep did what he did and still has the nerve to politically pontificate over what is supposedly harmful to children...

maybe you could search your heart for understanding why others soundly rebuke his agenda.

Sorry, but I am of the school that a good idea is a good idea, a good concept is a good concept regardless of who thinks it up or who promotes it. I can appreciate that he has been a strong advocate for children while at the same time I have not, will not, cannot excuse or defend what Josh Duggar did. I don't expect anybody else to.

He has been publicly humiliated. He has resigned his professional position because of all the negative publicity and because he would be a detriment to the organization. But I simply refuse to pile on and join personal attacks on a person who has openly confessed and repented of his bad acts as a young teenager and for who there is no indication that he has ever continued in those bad acts.

If the victims of those bad acts now say there was no lasting harm, who say they have forgiven him and love him very much, who are we to continue to demand--"demand" defined as "an insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right:" or the insistence that he must now pay for his crimes--that he continue to be punished?

At what point can any person be allowed to live as the person he/she has become rather than as the person he/she once was?

And in fact it's not without harm that scoffers continue to vilify who God has forgiven. Jesus gives a grave warning about idle words, that men will give an account of every idle word spoken. We're not talking about colloquial conversation, we're talking about destructive words and condemnations, especially against the house of God.

Satan continually accuses those who God forgave, and when the unregenerate of heart do the same, they demonstrate that they are indeed his servants.

Well in keeping with Jesus admonition to "Judge not lest we be judged also", I don't know what is in the heart and mind of the scoffers. I will judge their actions as a destructive, mean spirited, hateful dynamic, but it has not been given to me to judge the people or know what evil prompts their behavior.

I just know there's an awful lot of it going around and that our common lives together suffers because of it.

So only those who haven't molested 10 year olds have the standing to judge Josh Duggar?

lol

That isn't even close to what I said. Try again.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

When Michael Brown of Ferguson stole cigarillos, the Right dubbed him a thug who deserved to die.

Josh Duggar fingers a 4th grade girl and the Right makes him temporary Jesus.

Talk about perversion.

Michael Brown deserved to die when he attacked a police officer and attempted to wrest his weapon. Stop lying.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Foxfyre

demanding that one person bear the most severe penalty of law but give those we like pretty much a pass, it all becomes quite murky and the lines of justice become very blurred.

I think each of us has to search our own heart for what is appropriate in any given case.

none of our opinions have the power of any law to 'give passes' or 'severe' punishment..in our heart?


what does it mean to DEMAND when you are merely giving your opinion, you can't demand others agree with you..?


laws exist which seek to protect children like those sisters from any harm as clinically defined within the law.

their personal forgiveness is typical and does not preclude the law yet the law has not demanded penalty.


the reason duggar is being highlighted lately is because the creep did what he did and still has the nerve to politically pontificate over what is supposedly harmful to children...

maybe you could search your heart for understanding why others soundly rebuke his agenda.

Sorry, but I am of the school that a good idea is a good idea, a good concept is a good concept regardless of who thinks it up or who promotes it. I can appreciate that he has been a strong advocate for children while at the same time I have not, will not, cannot excuse or defend what Josh Duggar did. I don't expect anybody else to.

He has been publicly humiliated. He has resigned his professional position because of all the negative publicity and because he would be a detriment to the organization. But I simply refuse to pile on and join personal attacks on a person who has openly confessed and repented of his bad acts as a young teenager and for who there is no indication that he has ever continued in those bad acts.

If the victims of those bad acts now say there was no lasting harm, who say they have forgiven him and love him very much, who are we to continue to demand--"demand" defined as "an insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right:" or the insistence that he must now pay for his crimes--that he continue to be punished?

At what point can any person be allowed to live as the person he/she has become rather than as the person he/she once was?

And in fact it's not without harm that scoffers continue to vilify who God has forgiven. Jesus gives a grave warning about idle words, that men will give an account of every idle word spoken. We're not talking about colloquial conversation, we're talking about destructive words and condemnations, especially against the house of God.

Satan continually accuses those who God forgave, and when the unregenerate of heart do the same, they demonstrate that they are indeed his servants.

Well in keeping with Jesus admonition to "Judge not lest we be judged also", I don't know what is in the heart and mind of the scoffers. I will judge their actions as a destructive, mean spirited, hateful dynamic, but it has not been given to me to judge the people or know what evil prompts their behavior.

I just know there's an awful lot of it going around and that our common lives together suffers because of it.

So only those who haven't molested 10 year olds have the standing to judge Josh Duggar?

lol

Only God has standing to judge Josh Duggar. You have been told this repeatedly throughout this thread.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Foxfyre
none of our opinions have the power of any law to 'give passes' or 'severe' punishment..in our heart?


what does it mean to DEMAND when you are merely giving your opinion, you can't demand others agree with you..?


laws exist which seek to protect children like those sisters from any harm as clinically defined within the law.

their personal forgiveness is typical and does not preclude the law yet the law has not demanded penalty.


the reason duggar is being highlighted lately is because the creep did what he did and still has the nerve to politically pontificate over what is supposedly harmful to children...

maybe you could search your heart for understanding why others soundly rebuke his agenda.

Sorry, but I am of the school that a good idea is a good idea, a good concept is a good concept regardless of who thinks it up or who promotes it. I can appreciate that he has been a strong advocate for children while at the same time I have not, will not, cannot excuse or defend what Josh Duggar did. I don't expect anybody else to.

He has been publicly humiliated. He has resigned his professional position because of all the negative publicity and because he would be a detriment to the organization. But I simply refuse to pile on and join personal attacks on a person who has openly confessed and repented of his bad acts as a young teenager and for who there is no indication that he has ever continued in those bad acts.

If the victims of those bad acts now say there was no lasting harm, who say they have forgiven him and love him very much, who are we to continue to demand--"demand" defined as "an insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right:" or the insistence that he must now pay for his crimes--that he continue to be punished?

At what point can any person be allowed to live as the person he/she has become rather than as the person he/she once was?

And in fact it's not without harm that scoffers continue to vilify who God has forgiven. Jesus gives a grave warning about idle words, that men will give an account of every idle word spoken. We're not talking about colloquial conversation, we're talking about destructive words and condemnations, especially against the house of God.

Satan continually accuses those who God forgave, and when the unregenerate of heart do the same, they demonstrate that they are indeed his servants.

Well in keeping with Jesus admonition to "Judge not lest we be judged also", I don't know what is in the heart and mind of the scoffers. I will judge their actions as a destructive, mean spirited, hateful dynamic, but it has not been given to me to judge the people or know what evil prompts their behavior.

I just know there's an awful lot of it going around and that our common lives together suffers because of it.

So only those who haven't molested 10 year olds have the standing to judge Josh Duggar?

lol

Only God has standing to judge Josh Duggar. You have been told this repeatedly throughout this thread.

Then just open all the prison gates. halleluyah!

 

[JoeB131]

Michael Brown deserved to die when he attacked a police officer and attempted to wrest his weapon. Stop lying.

Except he wasn't anywhere near the police office when he was shot. The police officer was 50 yards away when he shot him six times.

 

[Valerie]

Well in keeping with Jesus admonition to "Judge not lest we be judged also", I don't know what is in the heart and mind of the scoffers. I will judge their actions as a destructive, mean spirited, hateful dynamic, but it has not been given to me to judge the people or know what evil prompts their behavior.

I just know there's an awful lot of it going around and that our common lives together suffers because of it.

when you scoff at his scoffers is it not destructive, mean spirited, hateful, or evil?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Sorry, but I am of the school that a good idea is a good idea, a good concept is a good concept regardless of who thinks it up or who promotes it. I can appreciate that he has been a strong advocate for children while at the same time I have not, will not, cannot excuse or defend what Josh Duggar did. I don't expect anybody else to.

He has been publicly humiliated. He has resigned his professional position because of all the negative publicity and because he would be a detriment to the organization. But I simply refuse to pile on and join personal attacks on a person who has openly confessed and repented of his bad acts as a young teenager and for who there is no indication that he has ever continued in those bad acts.

If the victims of those bad acts now say there was no lasting harm, who say they have forgiven him and love him very much, who are we to continue to demand--"demand" defined as "an insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right:" or the insistence that he must now pay for his crimes--that he continue to be punished?

At what point can any person be allowed to live as the person he/she has become rather than as the person he/she once was?

And in fact it's not without harm that scoffers continue to vilify who God has forgiven. Jesus gives a grave warning about idle words, that men will give an account of every idle word spoken. We're not talking about colloquial conversation, we're talking about destructive words and condemnations, especially against the house of God.

Satan continually accuses those who God forgave, and when the unregenerate of heart do the same, they demonstrate that they are indeed his servants.

Well in keeping with Jesus admonition to "Judge not lest we be judged also", I don't know what is in the heart and mind of the scoffers. I will judge their actions as a destructive, mean spirited, hateful dynamic, but it has not been given to me to judge the people or know what evil prompts their behavior.

I just know there's an awful lot of it going around and that our common lives together suffers because of it.

So only those who haven't molested 10 year olds have the standing to judge Josh Duggar?

lol

Only God has standing to judge Josh Duggar. You have been told this repeatedly throughout this thread.

Then just open all the prison gates. halleluyah!

There are people in prison today who are more free than you, who will be justified on the day of judgement because they accepted that wonderful gift you reject.

Forgiveness. That's what this thread is about, and my fervent plea that you receive it.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe, I like your post because you get right down to the scandal of forgiveness, that it dismisses from all further pursuance some very terrible sins. Many books have been written positing an argument between the personifications of Mercy and Justice. Justice without mercy is heartless and offers no venue for redemption and mercy without justice ignores the victims of crimes inflicted by evil people.

In Jesus Christ, both mercy and justice merged, the sins of mankind which demanded reciprocity were taken by Christ, nailed to the cross so that remission of sins may be offered to all who seek it. This is the gospel and it is indeed good news.

You see, again, I don't buy that.

Even if there was a God, the notion that he will pardon murderers who beg his forgiveness but eternally burn adulterers who don't is just fucking crazy.

We'd never run a justice system like that. We'd meet out punishments in proportion to the Crime.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Michael Brown deserved to die when he attacked a police officer and attempted to wrest his weapon. Stop lying.

Except he wasn't anywhere near the police office when he was shot. The police officer was 50 yards away when he shot him six times.

Now you're just lying, clinging to a narrative that was disproven by forensic evidence.

 

[JoeB131]

Michael Brown deserved to die when he attacked a police officer and attempted to wrest his weapon. Stop lying.

Except he wasn't anywhere near the police office when he was shot. The police officer was 50 yards away when he shot him six times.

Now you're just lying, clinging to a narrative that was disproven by forensic evidence.

Forensic Science did nothing of the sort. the fatal shots were fired at a distance.

It was a huge Whitewash by the District Attorney.

Blacks have figured out how to beat this. Film Everything the Cops do.

 

[featherlite]

This is what fundie Christian theocracy would look like. 'Christian' child molesters getting a pass.

Don't you usually have to not be a child to be a child molester? Not saying his actions were right, but how is it accurate when you completely ignore.that he was a child himself when he did this?

Why should someone who makes a mistake have no hope? Should someone's past mistakes prevent them from moving on with life? Or should we forever condemn them?

Jesus Christ was born to give us hope. He lived and died so we could have a way to overcome the past mistakes that hold us back. He sacrificed Himself to free us from our addictions, our mistakes, and our corrupt nature.

Not one of us alive is free from mistakes. All of us need to repent and be born again. So why shouldn't we forgive someone who repented of their sins?

Don't you realize the whole point of helping people recognize their sins is to help them obtain forgiveness?

He made a mistake. But he and his family did the right thing and took responsibility for what happened. And they did that years ago.

At what point do we stop letting the past stigmatized his future?

Ever hear of penance? Do you know why prisons are called penitentiaries?

You mean the counseling and treatment he received years ago,that penance?

When you all sign on to substituting 'counseling and treatment' for incarceration for all child molesters then your position will rise above the ridiculous.

Nobody is substituting counseling for incarceration. Personally I think the Duggars are strange, I cant even imagine living like that. Facts here are... tons of mistakes were made along the way by almost all involved. If he could be held accountable now ( under the law)imo he should be.
There are countless story's about human services and mistakes made with kids all the time. Kids DIE after stupid parental or DSHS errors and they hardly are a blip on the radar screen. Yet this story is being pounded into the ground.

Leaving all the stupid politics out... forgiveness should ( eventually) be applied to all. Its just much harder for people you hate.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well in keeping with Jesus admonition to "Judge not lest we be judged also", I don't know what is in the heart and mind of the scoffers. I will judge their actions as a destructive, mean spirited, hateful dynamic, but it has not been given to me to judge the people or know what evil prompts their behavior.

I just know there's an awful lot of it going around and that our common lives together suffers because of it.

when you scoff at his scoffers is it not destructive, mean spirited, hateful, or evil?

I don't scoff at the scoffers. But I have my own perceptions of right and wrong, good and bad, just and unjust, and I think we are commanded to judge the behavior of everybody including ourselves.

 

[Valerie]

you judge those who've judged the pontificating molestor..

you judge them as if they are scoffing, and you feel free to yammer on and characterize those who rebuke duggar as the destructive, mean spirited, hateful, evil ones...?

I will judge their actions as a destructive, mean spirited, hateful dynamic, but it has not been given to me to judge the people or know what evil prompts their behavior.

you judge and scoff at others but in your judgement you deem yourself above it all..

oh but it is not given to you to judge..??

 

[Foxfyre]

you judge those who've judged the pontificating molestor..

you judge them as if they are scoffing, and you feel free to yammer on and characterize those who rebuke duggar as the destructive, mean spirited, hateful, evil ones...?

I will judge their actions as a destructive, mean spirited, hateful dynamic, but it has not been given to me to judge the people or know what evil prompts their behavior.

you judge and scoff at others but in your judgement you deem yourself above it all..

oh but it is not given to you to judge..??

Sorry you interpreted my posts that way Valierie since I didn't say anything like that. I'll just chalk it up to my inability to communicate well with some folks and let it go at that. Have a great afternoon and evening.

 

[Valerie]

makes you wonder...........

if molesting children then pontificating against others as a danger to children isn't "evil" -- ?

then what is..??



oh right, those who rebuke his agenda, of course...