Joe Montana is the best QB who has ever played

[JamesInFlorida]

Big freaking deal,just like Marino,in any big game,he panics and gets scared.He finally kept his composure that one year and made it to the superbowl and only one because they were playing a team that was carried there by defense and special teams once he played against a REAL quarterback in the superbowl against Drew Brees and couldnt stay on the field all day because they had a good offense,he couldnt deliver against a good football team with a GOOD quaterback.manning couldnt carry Montana's jockstrap or many of those other quarterbacks that have been mentioned.

Now I'm a big Brees fan-but in no way is Brees better than Manning.

I wasnt implying that.I was just saying that once Manning faced a GOOD quarterback in the superbowl,he couldnt win.He could only win when he faced a has been quarterback who is now a benchwarmer named rex grossman.

I get your point-but Manning played against a VERY good Chicago defense.

 

[rightwinger]

So, when Manning breaks all the passing records, what will the excuse be then?

The excuse will be that he continually had one of the best teams in the league and couldn't win championships. One SB win against an inferior Chicago team does not make you the greatest of all time

 

[rightwinger]

So, when Manning breaks all the passing records, what will the excuse be then?

The excuse will be that he continually had one of the best teams in the league and couldn't win championships. One SB win against an inferior Chicago team does not make you the greatest of all time

 

[JamesInFlorida]

So, when Manning breaks all the passing records, what will the excuse be then?

The excuse will be that he continually had one of the best teams in the league and couldn't win championships. One SB win against an inferior Chicago team does not make you the greatest of all time

Chicago's defense was VERY GOOD.

They gave up an average of just 15.9 points per game (3rd best in the NFL).
Indianapolis? 212.5 (23rd best)

They gave up a net of of just 294 yards per game (5th best)
Indianapols: 332.3 (21st)

Yes Indianapolis had the 2nd best defense against the pass-but they also had the worst defense against the run. Remember that superbowl was in the rain down in Miami-obviously very rushing oriented game. I agree with the rest of your statement-but people really belittle just how good Chicago's defense was, and drastically overrated how good the Colt's defense was.

edit: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/sort/netYardsPerGame/position/defense/year/2006

 

[rightwinger]

So, when Manning breaks all the passing records, what will the excuse be then?

The excuse will be that he continually had one of the best teams in the league and couldn't win championships. One SB win against an inferior Chicago team does not make you the greatest of all time

Chicago's defense was VERY GOOD.

They gave up an average of just 15.9 points per game (3rd best in the NFL).
Indianapolis? 212.5 (23rd best)

They gave up a net of of just 294 yards per game (5th best)
Indianapols: 332.3 (21st)

Yes Indianapolis had the 2nd best defense against the pass-but they also had the worst defense against the run. Remember that superbowl was in the rain down in Miami-obviously very rushing oriented game. I agree with the rest of your statement-but people really belittle just how good Chicago's defense was, and drastically overrated how good the Colt's defense was.

edit: 2006 NFL Team Total Stats - National Football League - ESPN

Let's just say they were not considered one of the most formidable SB teams of all time. And they were an inferior team to the Colts. Peyton has never won a big game against a better team. Not in college, not in the pros

Manning is an all time great....just not THE all time great

 

[BolshevikHunter]

Big freaking deal,just like Marino,in any big game,he panics and gets scared.He finally kept his composure that one year and made it to the superbowl and only one because they were playing a team that was carried there by defense and special teams once he played against a REAL quarterback in the superbowl against Drew Brees and couldnt stay on the field all day because they had a good offense,he couldnt deliver against a good football team with a GOOD quaterback.manning couldnt carry Montana's jockstrap or many of those other quarterbacks that have been mentioned.

"manning couldnt carry Montana's jockstrap"? Give me a break bro, That's ridiculious. He had Jerry Rice, the best ever. Well, I respect alot of your opinions, but when it comes to this subject, I don't (in regards to the quote above). I could understand you picking Montana over Manning, but not that comment. ~BH

You respect his opinions? Why?

Why not? ~BH

 

[JimH52]

So, when Manning breaks all the passing records, what will the excuse be then?

He's not going to break any number of SB passing records I feel pretty sure.

Yeah, I think Kurt Warner holds a lot of them. I don't see him on any list.

 

[candycorn]

Well, If that is how you are judging this, then I would go with Favre. When it comes to stats though, Manning will finish as the king. I do respect John Elway's play alot though. I guess Marino never get's any love because he never won a Superbowl. ~BH

I guess thats what I don't understand; if you're just going by...

pure talent, toughness, knowledge of the game, and the ability to take a mediocre team and make them a perrenial threat.

Marino would be your guy. He threw for 10,000 more yards than Elway playing only 1 more year. He lead the league in passing 5 years (3 years in a row so he didn't sneak up on anybody) He didn't have a HOF receiver to throw to at all like Elway did.

Miami defenses were a joke for his entire tenure;
Def Rank
Year Pts Yds
1999 19 5
1998 1 3
1997 16 26
1996 17 17
1995 10 16
1994 17 19
1993 24 20
1992 11 10
1991 24 25
1990 4 7
1989 22 24
1988 24 26
1987 16 26
1986 26 26
1985 12 23
1984 7 19
1983 1 7


the only joke funnier was their running game which featured illuminaries such as the following:

Top Players
Year Passing Rushing

1999 Marino Johnson
1998 Marino Abdul-Jabbar
1997 Marino Abdul-Jabbar
1996 Marino Abdul-Jabbar
1995 Marino Parmalee
1994 Marino Parmalee
1993 Mitchell Higgs
1992 Marino Higgs
1991 Marino Higgs
1990 Marino Smith
1989 Marino Smith
1988 Marino Hampton
1987 Marino Stradford
1986 Marino Hampton
1985 Marino Nathan
1984 Marino Bennett
1983 Marino Franklin

Marino played hurt most of his last 7 years so toughness is at least a wash. Knowledge of the game...Elway was a coach's son so it's probably hard to top him and, while this is no great measure, Dan is a studio analyst for CBS so I'm guessing he's no slouch. And in terms of being a threat, Denver does have more SB appearances than MIA; thats true but being in the AFC East with the great Bills teams of the era was harder than Denver having a comparative cake walk in the AFC West with user-friendly KC, OAK, SD, and the Seahawks if memory serves.

Marino is on my Mt. Rushmore of 4 best ever (I only judge QB's I saw play so I could appreciate the team mates, the rules, and the competition as well as their performances) as is Mr. John Elway. I'd feel comfortable with either one guiding my team.

Still I'd take Joe Montana over any of them.

Marino had two of the best receivers in the game, Clayton and Duper.......Somewhere along the lines of 18000 receiving yards between the two of 'em.

Best in the game at the time maybe but they were largely a phenomenon of Marino's brilliance. By that I mean this; A). Dan Marino was the QB so the Dolphins threw the ball; they didn't throw the ball to take advantage of their "edge" at receiver. B). If they had a running back that was above average; neither one would have been in the pro bowl because the stats would have been abysmal; they'd be very much like the Rod Smith's and John Taylor's of the world; not bad receivers but nobody that you build your offense around. I doubt there were may Defensive Coordinators losing a lot of sleep over the Marx Brothers.

 

[candycorn]

"manning couldnt carry Montana's jockstrap"? Give me a break bro, That's ridiculious. He had Jerry Rice, the best ever. Well, I respect alot of your opinions, but when it comes to this subject, I don't (in regards to the quote above). I could understand you picking Montana over Manning, but not that comment. ~BH

You respect his opinions? Why?

Why not? ~BH

His ID for one thing....

Secondly the whole "Caleb Hanie should start" campaign he cosigned based on his "stellar" 8 for 14 CAREER

 

[Wicked Jester]

So, when Manning breaks all the passing records, what will the excuse be then?

He's not going to break any number of SB passing records I feel pretty sure.

Yeah, I think Kurt Warner holds a lot of them. I don't see him on any list.

He's on mine.

 

[Wicked Jester]

I guess thats what I don't understand; if you're just going by...



Marino would be your guy. He threw for 10,000 more yards than Elway playing only 1 more year. He lead the league in passing 5 years (3 years in a row so he didn't sneak up on anybody) He didn't have a HOF receiver to throw to at all like Elway did.

Miami defenses were a joke for his entire tenure;
Def Rank
Year Pts Yds
1999 19 5
1998 1 3
1997 16 26
1996 17 17
1995 10 16
1994 17 19
1993 24 20
1992 11 10
1991 24 25
1990 4 7
1989 22 24
1988 24 26
1987 16 26
1986 26 26
1985 12 23
1984 7 19
1983 1 7


the only joke funnier was their running game which featured illuminaries such as the following:

Top Players
Year Passing Rushing

1999 Marino Johnson
1998 Marino Abdul-Jabbar
1997 Marino Abdul-Jabbar
1996 Marino Abdul-Jabbar
1995 Marino Parmalee
1994 Marino Parmalee
1993 Mitchell Higgs
1992 Marino Higgs
1991 Marino Higgs
1990 Marino Smith
1989 Marino Smith
1988 Marino Hampton
1987 Marino Stradford
1986 Marino Hampton
1985 Marino Nathan
1984 Marino Bennett
1983 Marino Franklin

Marino played hurt most of his last 7 years so toughness is at least a wash. Knowledge of the game...Elway was a coach's son so it's probably hard to top him and, while this is no great measure, Dan is a studio analyst for CBS so I'm guessing he's no slouch. And in terms of being a threat, Denver does have more SB appearances than MIA; thats true but being in the AFC East with the great Bills teams of the era was harder than Denver having a comparative cake walk in the AFC West with user-friendly KC, OAK, SD, and the Seahawks if memory serves.

Marino is on my Mt. Rushmore of 4 best ever (I only judge QB's I saw play so I could appreciate the team mates, the rules, and the competition as well as their performances) as is Mr. John Elway. I'd feel comfortable with either one guiding my team.

Still I'd take Joe Montana over any of them.

Marino had two of the best receivers in the game, Clayton and Duper.......Somewhere along the lines of 18000 receiving yards between the two of 'em.

Best in the game at the time maybe but they were largely a phenomenon of Marino's brilliance. By that I mean this; A). Dan Marino was the QB so the Dolphins threw the ball; they didn't throw the ball to take advantage of their "edge" at receiver. B). If they had a running back that was above average; neither one would have been in the pro bowl because the stats would have been abysmal; they'd be very much like the Rod Smith's and John Taylor's of the world; not bad receivers but nobody that you build your offense around. I doubt there were may Defensive Coordinators losing a lot of sleep over the Marx Brothers.

If Marino is so great, and he is, why would their stats be abysmal if they had an above average running back?

The 49ers had one of the BEST backs to run AND catch, Roger Craig, and Jerry Rice sure didn't have abysmal numbers.

 

[Montrovant]

So, when Manning breaks all the passing records, what will the excuse be then?

He's not going to break any number of SB passing records I feel pretty sure.

Yeah, I think Kurt Warner holds a lot of them. I don't see him on any list.

Other than most yards thrown in a SB, what SB records does Warner hold?

 

[candycorn]

Marino had two of the best receivers in the game, Clayton and Duper.......Somewhere along the lines of 18000 receiving yards between the two of 'em.

Best in the game at the time maybe but they were largely a phenomenon of Marino's brilliance. By that I mean this; A). Dan Marino was the QB so the Dolphins threw the ball; they didn't throw the ball to take advantage of their "edge" at receiver. B). If they had a running back that was above average; neither one would have been in the pro bowl because the stats would have been abysmal; they'd be very much like the Rod Smith's and John Taylor's of the world; not bad receivers but nobody that you build your offense around. I doubt there were may Defensive Coordinators losing a lot of sleep over the Marx Brothers.

If Marino is so great, and he is, why would their stats be abysmal if they had an above average running back?

The 49ers had one of the BEST backs to run AND catch, Roger Craig, and Jerry Rice sure didn't have abysmal numbers.

Okay...you're right; Roger Craig was on the same team with THE best receiver ever, Jerry Rice.

Put Roger Craig on the Dolphins instead of Tony Nathan or Bernie Parmalee and he'd absolutely take touches away from the Marx Brothers because he is likely on a par with those two (personally, I think he's a better player myself).

Also, the Marx Brothers complimented the vertical game of Marino. I'd argue that Craig was a prototype back for the West Coast offense much like Marshall Faulk was.

Still, I see your point; "abysmal" was likely too strong a word.

 

[BolshevikHunter]

You respect his opinions? Why?

Why not? ~BH

His ID for one thing....

Secondly the whole "Caleb Hanie should start" campaign he cosigned based on his "stellar" 8 for 14 CAREER

I don't know about all that, but I have had a few good discussions with the guy. ~BH

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Now I'm a big Brees fan-but in no way is Brees better than Manning.

I wasnt implying that.I was just saying that once Manning faced a GOOD quarterback in the superbowl,he couldnt win.He could only win when he faced a has been quarterback who is now a benchwarmer named rex grossman.

I get your point-but Manning played against a VERY good Chicago defense.

yeah but because of Grossman,that defense had to stay on the field all day long.their luck of the defense and special teams carrying them thoughout the season ran out on them that day.When Manning faced an offense that HAD a good quarterback,the defense of the saints was able to rest on the sidelines for a good amount of time and Manning could not win.Till he beats a team in the superbowl with a very good quarterback like Bree's,he hasnt accomplished much.I could care less abotu big stats and big numbers,he is just like Marino,puts up a lot of impressive stats but cant win the big game unless its against a has been bench warmer quarterback.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Why not? ~BH

His ID for one thing....

Secondly the whole "Caleb Hanie should start" campaign he cosigned based on his "stellar" 8 for 14 CAREER

I don't know about all that, but I have had a few good discussions with the guy. ~BH

thats something the troll as always,got his ass handed to him on a platter on just like he does in EVERY discussion he gets involved in.This troll is just sore because of that.ignore him.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Marino had two of the best receivers in the game, Clayton and Duper.......Somewhere along the lines of 18000 receiving yards between the two of 'em.

Best in the game at the time maybe but they were largely a phenomenon of Marino's brilliance. By that I mean this; A). Dan Marino was the QB so the Dolphins threw the ball; they didn't throw the ball to take advantage of their "edge" at receiver. B). If they had a running back that was above average; neither one would have been in the pro bowl because the stats would have been abysmal; they'd be very much like the Rod Smith's and John Taylor's of the world; not bad receivers but nobody that you build your offense around. I doubt there were may Defensive Coordinators losing a lot of sleep over the Marx Brothers.

If Marino is so great, and he is, why would their stats be abysmal if they had an above average running back?

The 49ers had one of the BEST backs to run AND catch, Roger Craig, and Jerry Rice sure didn't have abysmal numbers.

also,why did he choke in EVERY big game he played in?

 

[HUGGY]

Joe Montana is the best QB who has ever played

tell me im wrong

His son isn't. He lost out in his attempt to be the starting QB for the U of W Huskies this year.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Joe Montana is the best QB who has ever played

tell me im wrong

His son isn't. He lost out in his attempt to be the starting QB for the U of W Huskies this year.

Actually, I watched his son Nick play several times at Oaks Christian, just over the hill in Westlake Village. That kids got serious talent.

 

[rightwinger]

Joe Montana is the best QB who has ever played

tell me im wrong

His son isn't. He lost out in his attempt to be the starting QB for the U of W Huskies this year.

Actually, I watched his son Nick play several times at Oaks Christian, just over the hill in Westlake Village. That kids got serious talent.

Was that the team that had Will Smiths and Wayne Gretskys kids??